14:30:39 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pbgsc
14:30:39 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/06/28-pbgsc-irc
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14:31:00 <dauwhe> Meeting: Publishing Business Group Steering Committee
14:31:12 <dauwhe> Date: 28 June 2019
14:31:29 <dauwhe> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:41:46 <wendyreid> wendyreid has joined #pbgsc
14:48:57 <ivan> regrets: tzviya
14:56:56 <ivan> present+
14:57:06 <ivan> present+ ralph
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14:58:53 <laudrain> present+
14:58:55 <Ralph> Ralph has joined #pbgsc
14:59:28 <Ralph> present+
15:00:14 <Rachel> present+
15:00:19 <wendyreid> present+
15:00:57 <dauwhe> present+
15:01:32 <ivan> chair: Rachel
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15:02:22 <liisamk> present+
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15:02:58 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #pbgsc
15:03:00 <jeff> present+
15:03:18 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
15:03:20 <dauwhe> present+ George
15:03:27 <dauwhe> Zakim, who is here?
15:03:27 <Zakim> Present: ivan, ralph, laudrain, Rachel, wendyreid, dauwhe, liisamk, jeff, Bill_Kasdorf, George
15:03:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see Bill_Kasdorf, jeff, liisamk, Ralph, laudrain, wendyreid, Zakim, RRSAgent, Rachel, ivan, tzviya, dauwhe
15:03:33 <laudrain> Scribe laudrain
15:03:36 <ivan> scribe+ liisamk
15:03:41 <ivan> scribe- liisamk
15:03:46 <ivan> scribe+ laudrain
15:04:27 <George> George has joined #pbgsc
15:05:04 <George> present+
15:05:08 <laudrain> Topic: message sent out by Dave
15:05:23 <Ralph> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishing-sc/2019Jun/0014.html
15:05:44 <laudrain> Rachel: discussions about the future of WP spec and audibook spec
15:06:09 <laudrain> dauwhe: serious concerns about the crurent state of the WP spec
15:06:23 <laudrain> … publishers not to implement it soon
15:06:32 <laudrain> … no clear business case
15:06:48 <laudrain> … content creator not eager to creat a new format
15:07:03 <ivan> regrets+ Garth
15:07:13 <laudrain> … nothing we can do in existing format
15:07:26 <laudrain> … dyssatisfaction in the WG this year
15:07:49 <laudrain> … proposal to suspend work on WP as no clear business need
15:07:51 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:08:00 <laudrain> … focus on audio spec as business case
15:08:16 <laudrain> … people willoing to implement
15:08:46 <laudrain> … pickup on WP later based on broader participation and clearer business calls
15:09:05 <laudrain> … and discussion on the future of EPUB itself
15:09:20 <laudrain> … EPUB 3.x track and more
15:09:26 <wendyreid> q+
15:09:50 <Rachel> ack Bill_Kasdorf
15:09:51 <laudrain> … focus on areas where we have business needs
15:10:08 <laudrain> Bill_Kasdorf: surprised on disappointed
15:10:21 <laudrain> … chicken and egg problem here
15:10:28 <Rachel> q+
15:10:37 <laudrain> … not more publihers around the table
15:10:47 <jeff> q+
15:10:53 <George> q+
15:10:58 <laudrain> … EPUB3..2 is a good thing for the Pub indsutry
15:11:22 <laudrain> … one problem is people continue to havea need in browsers
15:11:37 <laudrain> … ??? publsh Web Book
15:11:46 <ivan> s/???/OECD/
15:11:58 <laudrain> … complex document more than individual Web site
15:12:21 <laudrain> … they make EPUB but they are not sufficient
15:12:29 <laudrain> ...
15:13:16 <laudrain> … I would hate that he concept of a complex pub in browser being abandoned
15:13:39 <laudrain> … There is a barrier today for an EPUB working on the Web
15:13:55 <dauwhe> q+ to comment on OECD webbooks
15:13:58 <laudrain> … Web participation missing
15:14:05 <ivan> present+ George
15:14:38 <dauwhe> https://read.oecd-ilibrary.org/urban-rural-and-regional-development/applying-the-oecd-principles-on-water-governance-to-floods_d5098392-en#page7
15:14:42 <laudrain> … Scholarly publishing are publishing article in Web sites
15:14:46 <Rachel> ack wendyreid
15:14:57 <laudrain> wendyreid: emphasized that we are not killing WP
15:15:07 <laudrain> … publish as a note : it is here
15:15:25 <laudrain> … other group may take it BDComa, Pub CG
15:15:37 <laudrain> … Pub trade industry may be interested later
15:16:01 <laudrain> … make it even more open to any group intersted, like non profit org
15:16:15 <laudrain> … problem we are notrecieving feedback
15:16:29 <laudrain> … major publihser already say they would not use WP
15:16:59 <laudrain> … at DPub summit , the future of EPUB is still bright
15:17:06 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 that we're not at the point of needing to replace EPUB
15:17:10 <laudrain> … at least for couple of yaers
15:17:52 <laudrain> Rachel: for us as a member, audiobook is a big draw
15:17:54 <dauwhe> ack Rach
15:17:58 <Karen> Karen has joined #pbgsc
15:18:32 <laudrain> … decresae meembership in the W3C changes the way we as a company would be interested in W3C
15:18:50 <laudrain> … focus on audiobook and what happen to EPUB4
15:19:10 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:19:37 <laudrain> wendyreid: looking at the option of asking the industry about the future of EPUB
15:19:39 <liisamk> q+
15:19:58 <laudrain> … the WG would not recharter as a WG
15:20:21 <laudrain> … we need to legitimizing EPUB as a REC track
15:20:30 <Rachel> ack jeff
15:20:52 <laudrain> jeff: 2 quesitons
15:21:02 <laudrain> … one about the WG
15:21:25 <laudrain> … Wg are best wheb they focus on business need and implementer behind
15:21:40 <dauwhe> s/wheb/when/
15:21:43 <laudrain> … positve on the change of direction
15:22:23 <laudrain> … overall groups at W3C, we recognize they is a lot of shifting before we work on the propoer consensus
15:22:49 <laudrain> … nothing going on to a plac ewith a broad point of veiw
15:22:59 <laudrain> … what the raodmap is
15:23:21 <laudrain> … seq art: refining on WP
15:23:29 <laudrain> … where is that taking place
15:23:30 <dauwhe> s/raodmap/roadmap/
15:23:34 <ivan> regrets+ daihei
15:23:48 <Rachel> q?
15:23:56 <laudrain> … we need a strong initiaitve outside the WG to a vision for the next years
15:24:02 <Rachel> ack George
15:24:19 <laudrain> George: pub on th e web today is horrible, PDF doc
15:24:46 <laudrain> … there isn’t an existing pub standard to replace PDF
15:25:18 <laudrain> … more and mor epeople using mobile phone, oppotunity to define a spec
15:25:27 <ivan> q+
15:25:55 <laudrain> … business case for commercial publisher may not be there
15:26:19 <laudrain> … I see different profiel to suppor tmanga and other area not in EPUB be very good
15:26:38 <laudrain> … moving EPUB3 forward to embrasse pub activities
15:26:58 <Rachel> ack dauwhe
15:26:58 <Zakim> dauwhe, you wanted to comment on OECD webbooks
15:27:31 <laudrain> dauwhe: to George, less PDF on teh web, but every system allow to creat pDF pushng abutton
15:27:48 <laudrain> … EPUB was a possible replacement for PDF but didn’t happen
15:28:11 <laudrain> … HTML building things in the Web paltform woud work better
15:28:25 <wendyreid> q+
15:28:34 <laudrain> … building indivfual features in the platfrom rather a new format
15:29:33 <laudrain> … require a lot of work and effort and money to bring commpelling business use cases, new revenues, no anwer to that question
15:29:44 <George> q+
15:29:52 <Rachel> ack Bill_Kasdorf
15:30:07 <laudrain> Bill_Kasdorf: OECD need something else than EPUB
15:30:34 <laudrain> … instead of standard going more compelx, tehy get to profile
15:30:42 <laudrain> … see ODRL
15:31:08 <laudrain> … on REC track, it went more simple as framexwork and profiles
15:31:36 <laudrain> … are we not close enough that WP give a framework for manga cases
15:31:53 <laudrain> … the standard should not try to everything for everybody
15:32:04 <dauwhe> q+
15:32:20 <laudrain> … i do agree taht for books, just continuing EPUB3 is the way to go
15:32:29 <Rachel> ack liisamk
15:32:38 <laudrain> liisamk: this is the right move right now
15:32:50 <Bill_Kasdorf> s/we are not/we are now/
15:32:53 <laudrain> … agree that we don’t want to give up the dream
15:33:10 <laudrain> … a way forwaord to focus on audiobook
15:33:34 <laudrain> … make audiobook spredsheet to nav doc
15:34:02 <laudrain> … good opportntiy from the japanese issue on validation
15:34:09 <laudrain> … alternantive on navigation
15:34:31 <laudrain> … spine order but also on another way : another generation of EPUB
15:35:00 <laudrain> … good stepping stone on the way to where we ahve to go
15:35:29 <laudrain> … in PBG we have struggle to involve people to engage in W3C community
15:35:36 <laudrain> q?
15:35:52 <Rachel> ack iv
15:36:09 <laudrain> ivan: to George love your understatemtnt on PDF
15:36:41 <laudrain> … Web Pub is the extreme, fully part of the web, may raise issues
15:37:17 <laudrain> … Version of EPUB can be presented in a browser, a viewer can work very well with a11y features
15:37:46 <laudrain> … looking at how PEUB coudl evelve with incremental steps
15:38:04 <dauwhe> q-
15:38:08 <Karen> Karen has joined #pbgsc
15:38:09 <laudrain> … the idea EPUB evolve and have that done in the right way
15:38:20 <laudrain> … what would happen with the dreams
15:38:33 <laudrain> … several CG going alive
15:39:03 <laudrain> … parallels action: we do a WG, we would revive the DPug IG with a ne setup
15:39:21 <laudrain> … with more specific goals than we have in the CG
15:39:38 <laudrain> … security, resource from all over the web
15:39:49 <laudrain> … difficult to sole with WPub
15:39:55 <laudrain> q?
15:39:59 <laudrain> q+
15:40:24 <laudrain> … about the WP providing th e minimal profile
15:40:44 <laudrain> … this extremely general on the Web creates lots ogf issues
15:41:44 <laudrain> …if the idea is to take the audiobook spec, probably what is there as a manifest may be reuse in other profile like for Manga
15:42:01 <laudrain> … could be used as a common vocabulary
15:42:10 <Rachel> ack wendyreid
15:42:34 <laudrain> wendyreid: to jeff, other thing we need to explore, bring new ideas
15:42:56 <laudrain> … worth to have another workshop on the future of digital pub
15:43:10 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:43:30 <laudrain> … keep it broad, and getting input from people like OECD
15:43:57 <Rachel> ack George
15:43:58 <laudrain> … get more idea on other groups we need
15:44:38 <laudrain> George: work more closely with the HTML community, good idea from Dave
15:44:59 <laudrain> … we need to make to know HTML as a publicaiotn format
15:45:10 <Rachel> ack laudrain
15:45:12 <dauwhe> scribenick: dauwhe
15:45:13 <laudrain> … and EPUB converging in the road
15:45:25 <dauwhe> laudrain: the discussion is important
15:45:34 <dauwhe> ... I don't think we should lose the dream, as Liisa says
15:45:50 <dauwhe> ... these hopes for having in the future for having something more webby
15:46:10 <dauwhe> ... we know the work of w3c for the publishing industry is important
15:46:34 <dauwhe> ... we have more involvement and more openness for the industry to work with us
15:47:04 <dauwhe> ... there is a major problem because of w3c fees
15:47:14 <dauwhe> ... and digital income is only a small portion of their business
15:47:20 <dauwhe> ... around 8% in France
15:47:56 <dauwhe> ... it make take time. We have to figure out how to get the commitment of the industry
15:48:10 <dauwhe> ... we had an idea with wendy during the summit to have more community groups
15:48:22 <dauwhe> ... to make the industry more aware
15:48:28 <ivan> regrets+ yoshii
15:48:33 <dauwhe> ... a publishing a11y community group, for example
15:48:40 <jeff> q+
15:48:45 <dauwhe> ... to find help, to voice their concerns
15:48:54 <dauwhe> ... to find a process for their publications
15:49:22 <dauwhe> ... like Dave is asking in the CG, how to get community questions answered
15:49:32 <dauwhe> ... we should not lose hope. standards take a long time.
15:50:05 <dauwhe> ... if it means we should suspend, I still don't want us to lose hope
15:50:12 <dauwhe> q?
15:50:32 <laudrain> Bill_Kasdorf: rel
15:50:33 <Rachel> ack Bill_Kasdorf
15:51:02 <laudrain> … cleint seeing content in granular terms
15:51:26 <laudrain> … cleint changing their focus as book as a web site
15:51:33 <laudrain> … lot in education
15:51:35 <laudrain> q?
15:51:38 <laudrain> q+
15:51:45 <Rachel> zakim, close the q
15:51:45 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close the q', Rachel
15:51:54 <Rachel> zakim, close q
15:51:54 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close q', Rachel
15:51:55 <wendyreid> zakim, close the queue
15:51:56 <Zakim> ok, wendyreid, the speaker queue is closed
15:51:58 <laudrain> … granular and packaged in differnet ways
15:52:12 <laudrain> … love the model of suspending
15:52:29 <laudrain> … we realize that incumbation needs to come before
15:52:54 <laudrain> … with WP, here’s here we are, and with that go where you want
15:53:03 <Rachel> ack jeff
15:53:38 <laudrain> jeff: W3C doen’t care about revenue, CG for incubaiton is feature not a bug
15:53:56 <laudrain> … as a SC, involve and driving the effort
15:54:01 <Rachel> ack laudrain
15:54:13 <dauwhe> laudrain: I was speaking to Avneesh, who is now on the AB
15:54:17 <Rachel> laudrain: I spoke with avneesh at the dpub summit
15:54:22 <dauwhe> ... I think he should be here in the SC
15:54:40 <dauwhe> ... his vision and experience in strategy should be a good thing for us
15:54:47 <liisamk> +1 to Avneesh joining the SC
15:54:57 <dauwhe> ... I think he has a role to play, not just for a11y but for everything
15:55:17 <dauwhe> ... I think he should be a member of our group
15:55:33 <dauwhe> q?
15:55:42 <wendyreid> +1
15:55:43 <jeff> +1
15:55:46 <ivan> +1
15:55:47 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1
15:55:49 <laudrain> +1
15:56:04 <George> +1000
15:56:11 <laudrain> dauwhe: look at the charter?
15:56:39 <laudrain> liisamk: SC chairs of the group plus experts…
15:56:51 <dauwhe> "and other members as chosen by the Business Group"
15:56:53 <dauwhe> +1
15:56:57 <Rachel> +1
15:57:04 <Ralph> [by the _Business_ group, not by the SC itself]
15:57:36 <laudrain> ivan: plan tohave the text sent to the WG to discuss on Monday
15:57:43 <dauwhe> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aGK2EbcIkWGBfM_EDoiIwiOawCAC8-PYWT96WPjNHAg/edit#
15:57:54 <laudrain> … if you have comment please send comments
15:57:55 <Ralph> -> https://www.w3.org/2017/02/PublishingBGcharter W3C Publishing Business Group Charter
15:58:11 <laudrain> wendyreid: will be sent today
15:58:22 <Ralph> [[
15:58:23 <Ralph>  The steering committee has no independent authority; formal decision-making remains in the Publishing BG as a whole. The membership of the Steering Committee shall include the chairs of all working groups, interest groups, and community groups associated with Publishing @W3C (provided those chairs are members of the Publishing BG), and ex officio members include the W3C’s Publishing Champion,
15:58:23 <Ralph> the W3C staff contacts for each group, and other members as chosen by the Business Group, up to a maximum of 16 members.
15:58:23 <Ralph> ]]
15:58:32 <laudrain> liisamk: follow for the BG on Tuesday
15:58:36 <laudrain> q+
15:59:06 <George> q+
15:59:40 <laudrain> ivan: any decision of teh WG is valid only after a week
15:59:50 <laudrain> … that should be enough
16:00:59 <laudrain> George: need approval from the PBG for Avneesh to join
16:01:11 <laudrain> liisamk: will be setup on Monday
16:01:16 <dauwhe> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:01:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/06/28-pbgsc-minutes.html dauwhe
16:01:18 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:01:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/06/28-pbgsc-minutes.html ivan