19:49:14 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dxwg
19:49:14 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/06/11-dxwg-irc
19:49:22 <PWinstanley> rrsagent, make logs public
19:49:34 <PWinstanley> chair: PWinstanley
19:50:07 <PWinstanley> regrets+ Simon
19:50:18 <PWinstanley> present+
19:50:27 <PWinstanley> rrsagent, create minutes v2
19:50:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/06/11-dxwg-minutes.html PWinstanley
19:57:39 <roba> roba has joined #dxwg
20:00:22 <kcoyle> kcoyle has joined #dxwg
20:00:59 <roba> * bo
20:01:11 <antoine> antoine has joined #dxwg
20:02:03 <TomB> TomB has joined #dxwg
20:02:07 <roba> present+
20:03:30 <antoine> present+
20:04:17 <annette_g> annette_g has joined #dxwg
20:04:25 <DaveBrowning> DaveBrowning has joined #dxwg
20:04:28 <annette_g> present+
20:04:39 <antoine> present+
20:04:43 <DaveBrowning> present+
20:04:48 <PWinstanley> present+
20:04:50 <kcoyle> present+
20:05:28 <dsr> scribenick: dsr
20:05:50 <dsr> chair: kcoyle
20:06:12 <dsr> kcoyle: we we approve the minutes of June 4?
20:07:09 <dsr> any objecttions?
20:07:13 <antoine> +0 (was absent)
20:07:16 <roba> +0
20:07:21 <DaveBrowning> +1
20:07:26 <dsr> [no]
20:07:42 <kcoyle> resolved: approve minutes of June 4, 2019
20:07:45 <DaveBrowning> s/probelems/problems
20:08:08 <PWinstanley> https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2019.06.11
20:08:12 <PWinstanley> Simon
20:08:41 <DaveBrowning> regrets+ SimonCox
20:08:44 <dsr> Regrets: Simon
20:09:05 <DaveBrowning> rrsagent, draft minutes v2
20:09:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/06/11-dxwg-minutes.html DaveBrowning
20:09:18 <kcoyle> topic: pull requests
20:09:30 <dsr> Any pull requests this week, that we need to be alerted to?
20:10:38 <TomB> Tom present+
20:10:48 <dsr> DaveBrowning: some editorial references updated
20:11:24 <dsr> Anything marked for closing that we should be interested in?
20:12:05 <dsr> There were some open actions, not sure …
20:12:29 <dsr> Peter did you do the conneg announcements?
20:12:44 <DaveBrowning> rrsagent, draft minutes v2
20:12:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/06/11-dxwg-minutes.html DaveBrowning
20:12:56 <dsr> PWinstanley: I have drafted a blog post which should be broadcast this week
20:13:30 <dsr> Rob was due to make a contact …
20:14:02 <dsr> kcoyle: let’s keep that one open until we have a response
20:14:36 <dsr> Now we have the question of a six month extension
20:15:10 <dsr> PWinstanley: PLH says we’re good having made the resolution to request the extension
20:15:30 <dsr> We should plan on the assumption that we will get the extension
20:16:07 <dsr> We need to sort out the definition of what we mean by a profile …
20:16:22 <dsr> kcoyle: we need to work on profile guidance
20:17:04 <dsr> antoine: we need to homongenise the text
20:17:08 <roba> q+
20:17:27 <kcoyle> q?
20:17:31 <dsr> s/homongenise/homogenise/
20:18:14 <AndreaPerego> AndreaPerego has joined #dxwg
20:18:31 <dsr> I am a bit less concerned about the profile document
20:18:36 <AndreaPerego> present+
20:18:57 <kcoyle> ack roba
20:19:44 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
20:19:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/06/11-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
20:19:55 <dsr> roba: you’re absolutely correct Karen, my agenda is to ensure that the definition of profile is consistent across our work
20:20:45 <TomB> q+
20:20:49 <dsr> There is a question of how deep our definitions need to go
20:21:05 <PWinstanley> q+
20:21:16 <kcoyle> ack TomB
20:21:21 <dsr> ack TomB
20:21:29 <AndreaPerego> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2019.06.11
20:21:35 <AndreaPerego> meeting: DXWG Plenary
20:21:36 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
20:21:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/06/11-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
20:21:46 <roba> "conformance"
20:21:55 <dsr> TomB: ifa profile is defined in terms of constraints then we need a definition of constraints
20:22:21 <dsr> We don’t need to get hung up on the definition of profile though
20:23:04 <roba> for conneg, the issue is the distinction between profile and specification - and if its useful
20:23:21 <kcoyle> ack PWinstanley
20:24:09 <roba> constraint = requirement that must be met - but a specific type of requirement that references another requirement ?
20:24:22 <dsr> PWinstanley: I emailed ODRL, Michael Steiner said …
20:24:26 <antoine> q+
20:25:08 <kcoyle> ack antoine
20:26:08 <dsr> antoine: I wanted to react to Tom, not about the constraints, …
20:26:49 <roba> q+
20:26:53 <dsr> at least having an agreement within the group would be good, if we can fully align with ODRL that would be good
20:27:16 <AndreaPerego> q?
20:27:16 <PWinstanley> a note in an email relating to the wide review of the DCAT v2 thought that the "profile" referenced in the DCAT v2 doc didn't look like the use cases for 'profile' as in the profile vocabulary doc
20:27:24 <kcoyle> ack roba
20:27:52 <dsr> roba: I partly agree with antoine’s perspective, it’s up to the community to define what we mean by profile
20:29:04 <dsr> in respect to conneg, we found it hard to separate profile from specification
20:29:33 <dsr> we need to discuss edge cases and avoid pain through a shared understanding
20:30:09 <roba> "of course its not a profile" ?
20:30:18 <antoine> q+
20:30:21 <dsr> kcoyle: do we want to broaden the concept of profile to support conneg or …
20:30:28 <kcoyle> ack antoine
20:31:08 <dsr> antoine: I will insist we don’t discuss this right now, the way I would put it is in terms of the definition in Diblin Core
20:31:23 <PWinstanley> s/Diblin/Dublin/
20:31:40 <TomB> q+ thinks a general definition may be good enough for CONNEG
20:31:47 <dsr> kcoyle: how do you think we should go about resolving this
20:31:54 <roba> q+
20:32:02 <dsr> antoine: probaly by relating existing definitions
20:32:11 <PWinstanley> q+ to say that I think we need co-creation around a google doc for the first cut
20:32:32 <kcoyle> ack TomB
20:32:33 <TomB> q+ to suggest that a general definition may be good enough for CONNEG and DCAT
20:32:39 <dsr> antoine: may be by asking the task groups for their input
20:32:51 <kcoyle> ack tomb
20:32:51 <Zakim> TomB, you wanted to suggest that a general definition may be good enough for CONNEG and DCAT
20:33:18 <dsr> TomB: a general definition is probably sufficient
20:33:35 <kcoyle> ack roba
20:33:36 <dsr> not really convinced any more is needed
20:33:54 <dsr> roba: the way we’ve done this in the past is through functional requirements
20:34:18 <dsr> there will be many groups with narrower definitions for their context
20:34:36 <dsr> … their govenence model …
20:35:02 <dsr> s/govenence/governence/
20:35:36 <dsr> we won’t get too much trouble if we take a functional approach
20:36:08 <dsr> kcoyle: I seem to remember that we didn’t get much from the use cases
20:36:38 <antoine> q+
20:36:44 <dsr> roba: the requirements comes down to interop requirments
20:37:22 <dsr> kcoyle: can you either find this in the use case requirement or find us somewhere else for a starting point
20:37:51 <antoine> https://w3c.github.io/dxwg/ucr/#ProfileNegotiationRequirements
20:38:05 <dsr> kcoyle: it needs to be something the group agreed on
20:38:07 <kcoyle> q?
20:38:54 <kcoyle> ack PWinstanley
20:38:54 <Zakim> PWinstanley, you wanted to say that I think we need co-creation around a google doc for the first cut
20:39:05 <antoine> q-
20:39:06 <dsr> PWinstanley: (v. distorted) I think we need co-creation around a google doc for the first cut
20:39:36 <antoine> q+
20:39:51 <kcoyle> ack antoine
20:41:06 <dsr> kcoyle: it appears that the requirements vary so how do we go about this
20:41:22 <roba> no i did _not_ argue conneg is broader than UCR or existing definition
20:41:42 <antoine> q+
20:41:51 <kcoyle> ack antoine
20:42:34 <dsr> antoine: I am reacting to roba, …
20:42:55 <dsr> roba: conneg is broader than UCR or existing definition
20:43:09 <dsr> I am happy to discuss this further
20:43:54 <dsr> kcoyle: so we have a definition, you’re saying we just need a better explanation, right?
20:43:59 <antoine> I'm not sure roba  said " conneg is broader than UCR or existing definition"
20:44:14 <dsr> roba: the process has been adequate so far, if we can improve it great
20:44:33 <AndreaPerego> q+
20:44:58 <kcoyle> ack AndreaPerego
20:45:14 <dsr> kcoyle: I am having a little difficulty understanding what people are asking for
20:45:41 <roba> q+
20:45:55 <dsr> AndreaPerego: for conneg we are talking about media types
20:46:20 <dsr> roba: media types aren’t sufficient
20:47:48 <dsr> s/roba: conneg is broader/roba: I did not argue that conneg is broader/
20:48:13 <annette_g> q+ to offer a crazy solution
20:48:44 <roba> distinction between profile and media-type was explicitly handled : https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/662  - we have gone to more effort to distinguish in text having agreed there are distinct
20:49:12 <dsr> AndreaPerego: having something that is sufficient for all needs is impractical and people need to define additional constraints for their own requirements
20:49:31 <TomB> +1 agree with AndreaPerego point re: different use of "profile" in CONNEG versus other specs and that we should acknowledge this
20:49:32 <kcoyle> ack roba
20:49:44 <dsr> kcoyle: people may read only one spec, so each spec needs to be clear on its own
20:49:57 <antoine> q+
20:50:16 <dsr> roba: conneg relates to media types, but goes further
20:50:21 <TomB> +1 agree with Karen that specs need to stand on their own for the sake of users
20:50:52 <dsr> annette_g: may be there is a term that would cover both specs
20:50:56 <roba> +1 if we can find it :-)
20:51:14 <dsr> e.g. schema negotiation, and define profile more narrowly
20:51:20 <kcoyle> ack annette_g
20:51:20 <Zakim> annette_g, you wanted to offer a crazy solution
20:51:26 <TomB> +1 agree with Annette w.r.t. possibly finding a better word
20:51:27 <kcoyle> ack antoine
20:52:05 <dsr> antoine: I am willing to take an action to make sure that our definition is referred to from the profile guidance spec
20:52:35 <dsr> kcoyle: we could do that as an action
20:52:44 <TomB> q+ to ask what the desired outcome is for the Guidance doc - WG Note?
20:52:58 <kcoyle> ACTION: Antoine to handle definition in 662 re profiles and media types
20:52:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-338 - Handle definition in 662 re profiles and media types [on Antoine Isaac - due 2019-06-18].
20:53:22 <TomB> q-
20:53:33 <roba> +1
20:53:42 <kcoyle> ack roba
20:53:50 <dsr> kcoyle: anyone support PWinstanley’s suggestion of a Google doc?
20:54:00 <dsr> roba: sounds good
20:54:05 <antoine> q+
20:54:15 <annette_g> +1 to starting fresh
20:54:24 <kcoyle> ack antoine
20:54:36 <dsr> some discussion if a different document …
20:54:37 <dsr> s/if/of/
20:55:04 <dsr> antoine: the other was about profile guidance
20:55:52 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
20:55:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/06/11-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
20:55:56 <kcoyle> action: roba to start google doc and add whatever he thinks will help
20:55:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-339 - Start google doc and add whatever he thinks will help [on Rob Atkinson - due 2019-06-18].
20:56:27 <TomB> for the record, Tom sees https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Y4jP4SGZMnt63EpjTX11-hW6-3mxlaq1i-Lbiw4tx1M/ and https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HCBt1m6BSTZcS9-Sjw5pGYn_bode-lKsnhinmNnX91s/edit and agrees that another document is needed for this discussion
20:56:28 <dsr> rrsagent, set logs public
20:57:09 <dsr> kcoyle: that’s all we have time for today
20:57:36 <dsr> kcoyle: asks AndreaPerego to clean up the minutes
20:57:41 <PWinstanley> bye
20:57:43 <dsr> … end of meeting
20:58:00 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
20:58:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/06/11-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:01:16 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:01:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/06/11-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:02:50 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, make logs world
21:02:52 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:02:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/06/11-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:05:35 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:05:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/06/11-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:10:25 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:10:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/06/11-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:11:03 <AndreaPerego> s/There is a question of how deep our definitions need to go/... There is a question of how deep our definitions need to go/
21:11:21 <AndreaPerego> s/I am a bit less concerned about the profile document/... I am a bit less concerned about the profile document/
21:11:38 <AndreaPerego> s/We need to sort out the definition of what we mean by a profile …/... We need to sort out the definition of what we mean by a profile …/
21:11:53 <AndreaPerego> s/We should plan on the assumption that we will get the extension/... We should plan on the assumption that we will get the extension/
21:11:57 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:11:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/06/11-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego