15:48:36 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pbg
15:48:36 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/06/04-pbg-irc
15:48:37 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
15:48:37 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Business Group Telco
15:48:37 <ivan> Chair: luc
15:48:37 <ivan> Date: 2019-06-04
15:48:37 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2019Jun/0000.html
15:48:37 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2019-06-04: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2019Jun/0000.html
15:48:38 <ivan> Regrets+ dauwhe, rachel, jeff, avneesh
15:54:12 <laudrain> laudrain has joined #pbg
15:57:25 <wendyreid> present+
15:58:37 <laudrain> present+
15:59:19 <liisamk> liisamk has joined #pbg
16:00:04 <Daihei> Daihei has joined #pbg
16:00:41 <tzviya> present+
16:00:44 <ivan> present+
16:01:21 <ivan> present+ daihei, george
16:01:33 <liisamk> present+
16:01:53 <wolfgang> present+ wolfgang
16:01:57 <George> George has joined #pbg
16:02:16 <George> present+ George
16:05:13 <wendyreid> scribe: wendyreid
16:05:18 <garth> garth has joined #pbg
16:05:43 <garth> present+ Garth
16:05:53 <wendyreid> laudrain: Le'ts start, for the news, Avneesh has been elected to the AB, great news! Leonie Watson has also been elected, lots of accessibility advocates on the AB
16:06:03 <julieblair> julieblair has joined #pbg
16:06:06 <ivan> present+ tzviya
16:06:14 <julieblair> present+
16:06:35 <wendyreid> tzviya: The others elected include Elika (fantasai), Charles, and Judy, all very good people
16:06:43 <wendyreid> laudrain: On the agenda, on the topic of audiobooks
16:06:47 <wendyreid> Topic: Audiobooks
16:07:01 <wendyreid> laudrain: Wendy is taking care of contacting publishers
16:07:28 <wendyreid> wendyreid: I have been able to speak to a few European publishers as well
16:07:42 <wendyreid> laudrain: I know French audiobook publishers, I would like to contact more
16:07:47 <wendyreid> ... can we share a list?
16:07:50 <wendyreid> wendyreid: Sure!
16:08:11 <wendyreid> laudrain: We also raised the question of tools, the spec is one thing, and publishers do not always produce their own files
16:08:21 <wendyreid> ... there is a question of tooling, how will this be produced?
16:08:42 <wendyreid> ... generally publishers use suppliers like studios who do the recording and production of MP3s and track lists
16:09:02 <wendyreid> ... the tools should be conformant to the spec
16:09:26 <wendyreid> ... it would be good to have a list of the main tools suppliers are using, and then contact those suppliers to consider producing files using the spec
16:09:42 <wendyreid> ... or help them to understand/use generic tools that comply with the spec
16:09:58 <wendyreid> ... we could also help explain the expected results to be conformant to the spec
16:10:14 <wendyreid> ... the most prominent company is ProTools
16:10:23 <wendyreid> ... does anyone have contact information for these people?
16:10:43 <wendyreid> ... do they attend things like BEA or other conferences?
16:11:05 <wendyreid> ... I've never met them at any bookfair
16:11:13 <George> q+
16:11:23 <laudrain> ack George
16:11:34 <wendyreid> George: I spoke to people at ProTools many years ago, but it's a big software company
16:11:48 <wendyreid> ... I would expect that we could initiate contact with them and explain what we are doing
16:12:02 <laudrain> q+
16:12:04 <wendyreid> ... and ask them to support the standard and provide to them technical guidance
16:12:30 <wendyreid> ... also with APA in the US, once the leadership has transitioned we could write an article for their newsletter
16:12:33 <wendyreid> q+
16:12:48 <wendyreid> ... both of these items for communication will help drive adoption
16:13:17 <wendyreid> ... I'd like to have some documentation before speaking to ProToosl
16:13:25 <wendyreid> s/Protoosl/Protools
16:13:34 <wendyreid> laudrain: Would you have any names?
16:13:42 <wendyreid> George: I have some contacts
16:13:49 <wendyreid> ... I can take on the task of contacting them
16:13:57 <wendyreid> ... I can do it over the next few weeks
16:14:10 <wendyreid> ... Find out what they want/need
16:14:17 <wendyreid> laudrain: I can help as much as I can
16:14:22 <wendyreid> ... feel free to copy me
16:14:32 <laudrain> ack laudrain
16:14:39 <wendyreid> George: I'll take it as an action item
16:14:44 <tzviya> q?
16:14:53 <wendyreid> laudrain: On the APA question, we have had some issues there.
16:15:02 <wendyreid> ... we are waiting for the new person in charge
16:15:08 <wendyreid> ... the transition is not complete
16:15:16 <laudrain> ack wendyreid
16:15:24 <laudrain> scribe+ laudrain
16:15:46 <laudrain> wendyreid: APA new director in contact
16:16:16 <laudrain> … they was concerns in their mind
16:16:20 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #pbg
16:16:28 <laudrain> … so reach publisher directly
16:16:32 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+ Bill_Kasdorf
16:16:42 <laudrain> … Leslie to talk to APA again
16:16:43 <wolfgang> s/they was/there were/
16:17:18 <laudrain> … APA providede a list of companies in the audiobook industry
16:17:25 <liisamk> q+
16:17:37 <laudrain> ack liisamk
16:17:53 <wendyreid> liisamk: We shouldn't look negatively on that, our spec is not a driving need for the prganization
16:18:08 <wendyreid> ... it's always nice if an org is willing to take this up, but I understand the reluctance
16:18:09 <laudrain> q+
16:18:17 <tzviya> q+
16:18:18 <wendyreid> ... we should talk to the distributors
16:18:18 <wolfgang> s/prganization/organization/
16:18:25 <wendyreid> wendyreid: I don't have any distributor contacts
16:18:30 <wendyreid> laudrain: Which distributors?
16:18:36 <laudrain> ack laudrain
16:18:51 <wendyreid> liisamk: We need to talk to CoreSource, many publishers aren't worried as they rely on distributors to handle that part of the process
16:19:05 <laudrain> ack tzviya
16:19:47 <wendyreid> tzviya: I just want to address the point about distributors, Ingram used to be a member of the W3C, Firebrand is also problematic
16:19:54 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:20:08 <wendyreid> ... distributors were helpful with EPUB, but we did much of our work with publishers well, it needs to come from all parts of the supply chain
16:20:43 <wendyreid> ... it helps to be a distributor, but if the publisher says they want to stick with the standard, it might cut them out
16:21:24 <wendyreid> ... the W3C has anti-trust policies, the concern is understandable, but we are talking about technical standards not pricing issues, we wouldn't be here if that were an issue
16:21:25 <laudrain> q+
16:21:33 <wendyreid> ... I hope we can continue working with the APA to come to an understanding
16:21:43 <laudrain> ack Bill_Kasdorf
16:22:07 <wendyreid> Bill_Kasdorf: In terms of the sensitivity of CoreSource and Firebrand, I have good relationships with both, if there is a way I can be helpful, let me know
16:22:24 <wendyreid> ... to my mind, it's in the distributor's interest to eliminate chaos
16:22:31 <wendyreid> ... the more standard the better, from their POV
16:22:44 <wendyreid> ... I doubt they would feel threatened.
16:23:08 <wendyreid> laudrain: I think it would be very helpful to contact them, I agree with tzviya it should come from the publishers as well
16:23:43 <wendyreid> q+
16:23:43 <laudrain> q?
16:23:51 <laudrain> ack wendyreid
16:24:00 <George> q+
16:24:09 <laudrain> wendyreid: that wood be great Bill
16:24:20 <wolfgang> s/wood/would/
16:24:41 <wendyreid> Bill_Kasdorf: I can reach out to them before the ??? meeting
16:24:43 <laudrain> ack George
16:25:04 <wendyreid> George: With CoreSource I will contact you offline and I may want to get involved, I need to talk to Benetech first
16:25:11 <wendyreid> Bill_Kasdorf: Great
16:25:22 <laudrain> ack laudrain
16:25:48 <wendyreid> laudrain: I will work with Wendy and others to get more contacts, including AudioLib in France, I will build some conformant files
16:25:56 <wendyreid> ... it would be interesting to see some real files
16:26:01 <tzviya> s/???/AUP
16:26:09 <wendyreid> ... there would be a question, what do we call it?
16:26:31 <wendyreid> ... I will work with them to gather some files and build samples
16:26:33 <laudrain> q?
16:26:50 <wendyreid> Topic: Future Profiles
16:27:01 <wendyreid> laudrain: What future profiles should we address for WP?
16:27:13 <wendyreid> ... what could be useful? This was addressed in the Asia call last week
16:27:27 <wendyreid> ... there were discussions about magazines, manga
16:27:46 <Daihei> q+
16:27:51 <wendyreid> ... this is an ongoing discussion, it will be discussed at the Digital Publishing Summit in Paris
16:28:01 <wendyreid> ... EDRLab will speak on it
16:28:15 <wendyreid> ... and there is a community group in the W3C looking at this as well
16:28:22 <laudrain> ack Daihei
16:28:52 <wendyreid> Daihei: To add, last week Kadokawa's rep discussed the idea of searchable text in fixed-layout EPUB
16:29:02 <wendyreid> ... if a search capability can be added to manga
16:29:17 <garth> q+
16:29:25 <wendyreid> ... in addition to search, the ability to look up keywords
16:29:31 <laudrain> q?
16:29:35 <wendyreid> ... a new idea to look into
16:29:38 <wendyreid> ... for WP
16:30:13 <wendyreid> ... Also, at the DPUB Summit, I will be speaking with the COO of MediaDo about the status of EPUB manga, almost 80% of the digital publishing market in Japan
16:30:18 <wendyreid> ... 2 billion as a whole
16:30:31 <wendyreid> ... 45% of the entire manga market is digital
16:30:56 <wendyreid> ... we will be presenting on these facts, plus the growth of the digital book market as a whole from the adoption of EPUB
16:31:09 <wendyreid> ... also exploring why e-manga has become so succesful
16:31:20 <wendyreid> s/succesful/successful/
16:31:43 <laudrain> ack garth
16:31:44 <wendyreid> garth: I just wanted to comment on Daihei's statement on manga being mainly FXL
16:31:55 <wendyreid> ... it's usually just a collection of JPEGs with the text baked into the images
16:32:26 <wendyreid> ... you could just place the text as a separate layer, it could be searchable, translatable
16:32:28 <laudrain> q+
16:32:37 <wendyreid> ... it's a big change to the market, but it's supported by the existing standards
16:32:44 <laudrain> ack laudrain
16:32:49 <Daihei> +1 to Garth
16:33:19 <wendyreid> laudrain: BDCoMa is not just about FXL, it's more addressing authors that are already creating on the web
16:33:40 <wendyreid> ... how to standardize content produced on the web outside of a standard at all
16:33:48 <wendyreid> ... there's markets in places like Korea for webtoons
16:34:10 <wendyreid> ... these ideas are flourishing in this area
16:34:19 <wendyreid> ... good to see after the workshop last year
16:34:26 <laudrain> q?
16:34:29 <wendyreid> +1 garth :)
16:34:52 <wendyreid> ... we will have to look after all of the profiles in future
16:35:03 <wendyreid> ... we should keep considering new opportunities
16:35:41 <wendyreid> ... we will have the PBG event in Fukuoka, we can further discuss and publicise these questions
16:35:47 <wendyreid> Topic: EPUB3 and EPUBCheck
16:36:02 <wendyreid> laudrain: We've received a testimonial from APL
16:36:04 <Daihei> q+
16:36:15 <wendyreid> ... as they're not a full member, we need to approve this testimonial?
16:36:21 <laudrain> ack Daihei
16:36:29 <wendyreid> Daihei: It's approved from last week's call
16:36:45 <wendyreid> ... I was requested by W3C to get more testimonials
16:36:53 <wendyreid> ... this is a good one from APL
16:37:46 <ivan> APL testimonial: "EPUB 3 is a de facto standard in Japanese eBook industry and we welcome the sustainable evolution of EPUB 3. APL looks forward to EPUB 3.2 as the first update of EPUB 3 by W3C and we support continuous maintenance with reasonable compatibility."
16:37:55 <ivan> signed by: Shinya Takami, EPUB-WG leader, Advanced Publishing Laboratory
16:38:14 <wendyreid> laudrain: No comments on this testimonial?
16:38:34 <wendyreid> ... this update means this is a clear evolution and we can forget EPUB 3.1
16:38:38 <Daihei> q+
16:38:39 <ivan> q+
16:38:41 <wendyreid> tzviya: It's the first from the W3C
16:38:49 <laudrain> ack Daihei
16:38:49 <wendyreid> laudrain: It shows the work of the W3C
16:39:13 <wendyreid> Daihei: At the W3C Publishing website, I see industrial comments from Japan, but are there any others?
16:39:29 <wendyreid> ... What is the PR and communication activity happening in the US and Europe?
16:39:37 <wendyreid> laudrain: Good question
16:39:42 <laudrain> ack ivan
16:39:47 <wendyreid> ivan: Daihei asked my question for me
16:39:53 <wendyreid> ... I have 5 testimonials from Japan
16:40:19 <wendyreid> ... it would be good to see other testimonials
16:40:36 <wendyreid> laudrain: tzviya mentioned she will have one from Wiley, and I am preparing one for Hachette
16:40:45 <George> q+
16:40:55 <wendyreid> ... Japan has adopted EPUB3 from scratch, the rest of the world is a bit more complicated with EPUB2
16:41:07 <wendyreid> ... I think it's a good omen to see such support from Japan
16:41:13 <ivan> b.t.w.: the new (and old) testimonials are also to be seen at: https://www.w3.org/publishing/testimonials
16:41:45 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:41:46 <wendyreid> Daihei: I didn't mean to brag, we just want to see EPUB3.2 adopted
16:41:50 <laudrain> ack George
16:41:57 <wendyreid> George: I thought Rachel was collecting some as well, I sent mine to her
16:42:19 <wendyreid> ivan: Send it to me so I can publish it on the website
16:42:31 <laudrain> ack Bill_Kasdorf
16:42:32 <wendyreid> George: I'll get it to you right away
16:42:48 <wendyreid> Bill_Kasdorf: Just a quick comment, I could probably get one from Rick at Vital Source
16:42:58 <laudrain> q+
16:42:59 <wendyreid> ivan: The testimonials should come from W3C members
16:43:16 <wendyreid> ... since they decided to leave, I don't think it would fly
16:43:31 <wendyreid> laudrain: We should have a formal resolution to adopt the APL testimonial
16:43:34 <garth> +1
16:43:41 <laudrain> +1
16:43:42 <liisamk> +1
16:43:43 <wolfgang> +1
16:43:44 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1
16:43:46 <ivan> +1
16:43:47 <wendyreid> +!
16:43:47 <Daihei> +1
16:43:48 <ivan> q+
16:43:49 <wendyreid> +1
16:43:59 <wendyreid> ivan: APL is done.
16:44:03 <laudrain> ack laudrain
16:44:08 <laudrain> ack ivan
16:44:20 <wendyreid> ... the other question I have, it's great to have testimonials from publishers, we should have some from Retailers
16:44:26 <wendyreid> ... Kobo, Google, Apple, etc
16:44:38 <wendyreid> ... to have both sides of the spectrum represented
16:45:10 <wendyreid> laudrain: I have contacted Apple, I haven't heard anything
16:45:27 <wendyreid> garth: I think we have written something about EPUB3, let me look into it
16:45:37 <laudrain> q?
16:46:00 <wendyreid> laudrain: The Digital Publishing Summit is coming up! Please join us
16:46:12 <wendyreid> ... and we have an event in Fukuoka as well
16:46:18 <ivan> Topic: events
16:46:27 <wendyreid> ... we have to populate an event of 3 hours
16:46:45 <wendyreid> ... and ideas for the program committee?
16:47:16 <wendyreid> Daihei: I started communicating with the people discussed, Yoshizawa-san and Takami-san, Yoshii-san from Kodansha
16:47:27 <wendyreid> ... we have already discussed as chairs, and with Ivan
16:47:35 <wendyreid> ... we would like you to join us as well
16:47:41 <wendyreid> ivan: I would be happy to
16:47:52 <wendyreid> Daihei: And one or two more people, like major publishers
16:48:00 <wendyreid> ... Creative publishing people
16:48:20 <wendyreid> ... because we are in Japan, and the focal point of progress with WP, we should look at new profiles
16:48:27 <tzviya> q+
16:48:32 <wendyreid> ... I am trying to put together people who will really contribute to discussion
16:48:47 <wendyreid> ... relating to new ideas and Japan's unique publishing situation
16:48:58 <wendyreid> ... some of the discussion will be in Japanese and translated
16:49:09 <wendyreid> ... I'm not planning on having all of the agenda in Japanese, but some of it
16:49:18 <wendyreid> ... the remainder in english
16:49:27 <laudrain> ack tzviya
16:49:30 <laudrain> q+
16:49:53 <wendyreid> tzviya: I wanted to suggest that since new profiles are not part of formal work, we should instead focus on completed work
16:50:29 <wendyreid> ... like EPUB3.2, what have we accomplished, EPUBCheck, Audiobooks, it's a good idea to focus on our accomplishments
16:50:55 <Daihei> +1 to tzviya
16:50:55 <wendyreid> ... not as exciting as what might be up and coming, but we should be cautious about presenting work that might not get standardized
16:51:11 <ivan> q+
16:51:13 <wendyreid> ... there's upcoming work in archiving as well, I'm reluctant to present on exploratory work
16:51:34 <wendyreid> laudrain: I agree, we will have to start planning for the program, September is not far away
16:51:40 <wendyreid> ... I do not want to overload people
16:52:13 <wendyreid> ... I thought about switching the calls for PBG to instead focus on the event for now
16:52:25 <laudrain> ack ivan
16:52:38 <wendyreid> ivan: You propose not to have PBG calls instead have program calls?
16:52:50 <liisamk> q+
16:52:53 <wendyreid> laudrain: We discussed it with Daihei and Liisa, we wanted to have fewer calls
16:53:01 <wendyreid> ... we have to cancel sometimes because of holidays and things
16:53:15 <wendyreid> ... we have to get this event planned
16:53:25 <wendyreid> ... we cancel some of the calls to address the program instead
16:54:02 <wendyreid> ivan: I am worried about that, we had good discussions today, we will break momentum if we focus on the summit instead
16:54:31 <wendyreid> ... the committee is mainly Japanese people, finding a time slot for European and Japanese colleagues is a challenge
16:55:04 <wendyreid> ... there is a possibility of a community group of having a F2F meeting, I was wondering if the BDCoMa group was planning a F2F
16:55:11 <wendyreid> ... just an idea
16:55:17 <wendyreid> laudrain: I will look into that
16:55:29 <laudrain> ack liisamk
16:55:34 <laudrain> ack laudrain
16:55:47 <wendyreid> liisamk: I was just going to say I agree with Ivan, we need to continue making progress on the BG topics, we should find something else for the program calls
16:55:56 <wendyreid> laudrain: We will find a way to organize the committee
16:56:16 <tzviya> q+
16:56:21 <wendyreid> ... I'm wondering if we could do a translation of calls
16:56:28 <laudrain> ack tzviya
16:56:48 <wendyreid> tzviya: The AB is looking into having simultaneous translation tools at TPAC, it's a possibility
16:56:51 <wendyreid> ivan: Will it work?
16:57:01 <wendyreid> tzviya: Maybe not, but we are going to try!
16:57:26 <wendyreid> ... we wanted it for the AC meeting, having something is better than nothing
16:57:45 <Daihei> q+
16:57:53 <laudrain> ack Daihei
16:58:31 <wendyreid> Daihei: I just want to confirm, I am happy to take the lead and work with Luc, and Liisa
16:58:54 <wendyreid> ... I will take the responsibility to contribute to coordinating the PBG F2F meeting in september
16:59:02 <wendyreid> ... Luc and I will organize together
16:59:14 <wendyreid> ... and try and address some of Tzviya's questions
16:59:25 <wendyreid> ... try to balance the new and the current
17:00:04 <wendyreid> ... one thing I wanted to check, I am confused about the scheduling
17:00:08 <wendyreid> ... of the PBG call
17:00:20 <wendyreid> ... with the different times in each week
17:00:32 <wendyreid> ... are you suggesting we maintain this or go back to a single time?
17:00:42 <wendyreid> ... timezone wise it is impossible!
17:01:02 <wendyreid> laudrain: We need to find one that is efficient for both Europe and Japan
17:01:18 <wendyreid> ... thanks everyone, have a good day!
17:01:23 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:01:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/06/04-pbg-minutes.html ivan