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15:39:55 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
15:39:55 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Business Group Telco
15:39:55 <ivan> Chair: luc
15:39:55 <ivan> Date: 2019-04-21
15:39:55 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2019May/0005.html
15:39:55 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2019-05-21: hhttps://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2019May/0005.html
15:39:56 <ivan> Regrets+ billk
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15:58:36 <Karen> present+ Karen
15:58:52 <wendyreid> present+
16:00:31 <laudrain> present+
16:00:41 <ivan> regrets+ daihei
16:00:46 <laudrain> Waiting for GoToMeeting to open.
16:01:12 <ivan> present+
16:01:41 <jeff> present+
16:01:47 <Avneesh> Avneesh has joined #pbg
16:01:53 <ivan> present+ makoto
16:02:43 <dauwhe> present+
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16:03:21 <liisamk> present+
16:03:22 <Karen> scribenick: Karen
16:03:23 <laudrain> regrets Wolfgang
16:03:37 <Karen> Luc: The agenda is same as last week
16:03:42 <JulieBlair> JulieBlair has joined #pbg
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16:03:56 <Avneesh> present+
16:04:10 <JulieBlair> present+
16:04:32 <laudrain> regrets Daihei
16:04:34 <Dan_Sanicola> present+
16:04:34 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2019-05-21: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2019May/0005.html
16:04:57 <ivan> present+ adam_zaremba
16:05:11 <tzviya> present+
16:05:22 <Karen> Luc: hi Liisa, hope you are well
16:05:29 <Karen> Liisa: a bit under the weather
16:05:40 <Karen> Luc: Let's start
16:06:09 <Karen> Topic: Publishing WG F2F minutes
16:06:16 <Karen> ...most of us attended this meeting in Boston
16:06:22 <Karen> ...Wendy did a short summary
16:06:35 <Karen> ...it was about Web Publications applied to Audio Books
16:06:38 <Karen> ...some issues were closed
16:06:45 <Karen> ...we had a specific moment for the PubBG
16:06:59 <Karen> ...Day two we had a discussion about the PubBG inside the PubWG session
16:07:12 <Karen> ...you can retrieve the slides from the agenda
16:07:28 <Karen> ...Idea was to give information to the WG
16:07:34 <Karen> ...and also to bring some issues and questions
16:07:46 <Karen> ...The big news about EPUB3.2 report approved
16:07:52 <Karen> ...and EPUBCHeck
16:07:57 <Karen> ...and also ISO work on EPUB
16:08:02 <Karen> ...We spoke about events
16:08:07 <Karen> ...DigPub Summit
16:08:12 <Karen> ...Program is almost finished
16:08:20 <Karen> ...and the Sept. PubBG event in Japan
16:08:32 <Karen> ...We listed what we have already talked about in this meeting here, the communications actions
16:08:42 <Karen> ...to spread the word about EPUB3.2 and EPUBCheck4.2
16:08:47 <Karen> ...Testimonials are coming
16:08:51 <Karen> ...you can see some of them
16:08:53 <tzviya> q+
16:08:56 <Karen> ...and EPUBCheck fundraising
16:09:05 <Karen> ...we have today also need support
16:09:10 <Karen> ...and AB election candidate
16:09:19 <Karen> ...Discussion also on future work
16:09:23 <Karen> ...Web business case
16:09:40 <Karen> ...real relationship between modules or profiles, the preferred word, that could be built
16:09:52 <Karen> ...on web publication as a framework on which business case profiles can be built
16:09:58 <Karen> ...the first business case is audio book
16:10:03 <Karen> ...and this is work in progress
16:10:12 <Karen> ...and hope to have this as a draft rec by September
16:10:18 <Karen> ...Other profiles may be built
16:10:24 <Karen> ...but WG asked BG to work on cases
16:10:38 <Karen> ...There is a strong relation on what can be built on this web publication framework
16:10:48 <dauwhe> q?
16:10:55 <Karen> ...to bring to market real needs that the PubBG should express
16:11:00 <Karen> ...Already established some narratives
16:11:08 <Karen> ...CG and some prototyping
16:11:19 <Karen> ...which will be done by EDRLab and by @ in France
16:11:25 <Karen> ...and to be presented at TPAC2019
16:11:28 <Karen> ack Tzviya
16:11:35 <laudrain> ack tzviya
16:11:43 <Karen> Tzviya: I wanted to read a summary from Geoff Jukes, Blackstone Publishing
16:11:59 <Karen> ...this has a tilt toward audio books, but I thought it was an apt summary
16:12:06 <Karen> ...I will paste this in
16:13:30 <Karen> Luc: Is that private?
16:13:41 <Karen> Tzviya: Private email but he said it was fine to share it with others
16:13:47 <Karen> Luc: it is worth a blog post!
16:14:07 <Karen> ...I could make it a blog post in W3C; Geoff may have rights to publishing as well
16:14:18 <tzviya> Technology has made it easy to reach millions of consumers. Each new platform, introduces new requirements for delivery, but the content itself never changes.
16:14:18 <tzviya> This creates a burden for content creators, who must produce different variations of the same product, in order to enter new platforms and markets.
16:14:18 <tzviya> Blackstone manage their own assets, and deliver to 50+ channels - each with unique file format, naming and packaging requirements. Being able to package our products in one way is very appealing.
16:14:18 <tzviya> Larger organizations use aggregators to manage their deliveries, who profit immensely from this chaos.
16:14:19 <tzviya> Individuals use platforms who do little more than re-package the content, in exchange for a slice of the royalties.
16:14:19 <tzviya> Audiobooks are low-hanging fruit. They’re probably the easiest of all the forms I can think of – the content is already encapsulated with a single, linear presentation order. So it makes sense to hit that first.
16:14:19 <tzviya> Therefore, I think the comment on how “ePub enabled self-publishing” is absolutely appropriate – and that the actual goal of the PWG, is to do the same for *all* forms of Publishing – even ones that have not yet been revealed.
16:14:41 <Karen> Tzviya: I thought it was an astute assessment
16:14:51 <Karen> ...some people might refer to this as the 'democratization of publishing'
16:15:05 <Karen> Luc: I am happy to push what you have there as a W3C blog with Geoff as the author
16:15:10 <Karen> ...do you think he will be ok with that?
16:15:27 <Karen> ...Tzviya, could you ask him?
16:15:50 <Karen> Tzviya: I think it would be good to include this as part of the overall summary of the meeting that Wendy and I are working on
16:15:58 <Karen> Luc: Distresses me to read 50 file formats
16:16:20 <Karen> ...About the discussions on the Business Group priorities for the WG
16:16:25 <Karen> ...BG needs to define business cases
16:16:28 <George> George has joined #pbg
16:16:31 <Karen> ...there was a discussion as you see in the minutes
16:16:48 <Karen> ...there was a question if the BG is the place to discuss that; and I think it's natural
16:16:56 <jeff> q+
16:16:57 <Karen> ...Question from Jeff as right venue to discuss
16:17:07 <Karen> ...if we have important business, we need to know who they are
16:17:16 <Karen> ...this could take place in the business group
16:17:16 <George> present+ George
16:17:17 <Karen> ack Jeff
16:17:21 <Karen> Jeff: Thanks, Luc
16:17:21 <laudrain> ack jeff
16:17:26 <Karen> ...I wanted to elaborate a bit more
16:17:34 <Karen> ...especially for those people who were not at the WG meeting
16:17:37 <Karen> ...Starting at TPAC
16:17:53 <Karen> ...the community had a lot of conversations about the need to create a profile of web publications for audio books
16:18:05 <Karen> ...there has been some excellent work putting together what that might look like
16:18:10 <Karen> ...During the WG meeting, there was a period of time
16:18:23 <Karen> ...in which the WG was discussing who are the stakeholders who have this work as a priority
16:18:27 <Karen> ...there certainly were several
16:18:39 <Karen> ...Hachette Europe comes to mind who expressed extremely strongly
16:19:07 <Karen> ...but despite the strong interest of some, I was surprised to hear that the interest appeared to be less compelling than I had understood based on previous conversations
16:19:18 <Karen> ...For that reason I started to wonder if the WG is getting sufficient direction from the BG
16:19:28 <Karen> ...has the BG indeed studied this space of requirements sufficiently
16:19:42 <Karen> ...since this was identified as a high priority item with the right use cases and requirements underneath that
16:19:52 <Karen> ...and the BG was exciting the ecosystem to accept the results
16:20:03 <Karen> ...to have a great spec and get a great path for adoption as well
16:20:08 <Karen> ...no one pushed back on that
16:20:19 <Karen> ...what we came out of the WG, looking for direction and support from the business group
16:20:27 <Karen> Luc: there was this discussion also bringing
16:20:47 <Karen> ...some reluctant support for this new standard from the Audio Book Publishers Association and also Dave Cramer from Hachette US
16:20:51 <Karen> ...less interest
16:21:02 <Karen> ...We identified several items with book pubishers
16:21:12 <Karen> ...and Wendy mentioned several publishers interested in this new format
16:21:23 <Karen> ...But agree this needs to be deliberate and we have collective work to do
16:21:36 <Karen> ...we should bring this to the table in our respective countries and seek explicit support
16:21:45 <Karen> ...Does it mean we should start some kind of survey?
16:21:53 <Karen> ...to reach all the audio book publishers in the world?
16:21:58 <wendyreid> q+
16:22:06 <laudrain> ack wendyreid
16:22:06 <Karen> ...ack Wendy
16:22:13 <Karen> Wendy: I don't know if it's a survey that we need
16:22:18 <Karen> ...but what we really need is a better idea
16:22:37 <laudrain> q+
16:22:39 <Karen> ...not even a better idea, we need more outreach to the audio publishers; to lay eyes on it and give us their concerns or questions
16:22:43 <tzviya> q+
16:22:47 <Karen> ...I don't think audio publishers know what they need from a spec
16:23:06 <Karen> ...in that phase...we read the spec but we don't understand X
16:23:12 <Karen> ...that is where we are struggling
16:23:18 <Karen> ...Leslie and myself are doing this outreach work
16:23:25 <Karen> ...and that is where we need help, to get eyes on the spec
16:23:32 <Karen> Luc: We also spoke about publishers' needs
16:23:42 <leslie> leslie has joined #pbg
16:23:44 <Karen> ...gathering audio files, list of resources, putting in XL files
16:23:53 <Karen> ...putting in for distributors and vendors
16:23:59 <Karen> ...we hope this spec will help for the packaging
16:24:02 <Karen> ...also a need for a tool
16:24:05 <Karen> ...Laurent mentioned
16:24:12 <Karen> ...to be able to build the package easily
16:24:16 <Karen> ...starting with audio files
16:24:23 <Karen> ...and some kind of reading order, table of contents, cover
16:24:28 <Karen> ...this should package the thing in the end
16:24:36 <George> q+
16:24:40 <Karen> ...On the publisher side there is an identified need for a tool to build the package
16:24:47 <leslie> q+
16:24:51 <Karen> ...on the distributor side, downstream, the need is to receive this package
16:25:01 <Karen> ...and to follow the spec and make it available to their distribution system
16:25:01 <laudrain> ack laudrain
16:25:03 <Karen> ack Tzviya
16:25:09 <Karen> Tzviya: In terms of what the BG can do
16:25:16 <Karen> ...I agree with Wendy, this is still a matter of outreach
16:25:31 <Karen> ...our impression about the audio book publishers association, there is a great deal of confusion about what a standard is
16:25:38 <Karen> ...they don't understand standards
16:25:43 <Karen> ...we have heard confusion about anti-trust
16:26:02 <Karen> ...and that is not a W3C violation; we don't have anti-trust
16:26:10 <Karen> ...we reach out but there is suspicion
16:26:14 <Karen> ...impression that we may have an agenda
16:26:25 <laudrain> q+
16:26:34 <Karen> ...someone who has more of a relationship with APA or other people in audio books world may have better chance of expressing what we are trying to accomplish
16:26:45 <Karen> ...that we are not dealing with distribution or sales, simply trying to make this easier
16:26:55 <Karen> Luc: Thank you for expressing that; it's a big issue
16:26:58 <Karen> ack George
16:27:22 <Karen> George: Do they understand the problem that people are having ingesting the audio books
16:27:31 <Karen> ...another hand, if we can address the tool @
16:27:43 <Karen> ...if that might be an avenue to get support for development of a spec
16:27:48 <Karen> Luc: you mentioned a specific tool
16:27:55 <Karen> George: ProTools
16:28:02 <Karen> ...is widely used to create audio content
16:28:08 <Karen> ...ProTools is the biggest, there are others
16:28:23 <Karen> Luc: wonder if we can have conversation with these people from ProTools?
16:28:25 <Karen> ack Leslie
16:28:25 <laudrain> ack leslie
16:28:43 <Karen> Leslie: to George's point if people understand the challenge of ingestion
16:29:01 <Karen> ...Coursair and Ingram make the problem go away for many publishers and they are not feeling the pain
16:29:04 <laudrain> q-
16:29:05 <Karen> ...Feels like the direction
16:29:11 <Karen> ...is that this will be one more format
16:29:22 <Karen> ...and hope that Google, Kobo, others move over to packaged audio format
16:29:31 <Karen> ...but we don't have the leverage to get this down to one format, to EPUB
16:29:44 <Karen> ...will go diferently because of starting point
16:29:58 <Karen> ...APA feedback has been about anti-trust
16:30:03 <Karen> ...exec director is outgoing
16:30:18 <Karen> ...new incoming is from Harper, so starting in June hopeful that conversation will be different
16:30:29 <Karen> ...and more opportunity for a group conversation; will approach in June
16:30:45 <Karen> ...and if that is not the case, we certainly will need more conversations with publishers individually
16:30:53 <Karen> ...we should figure out a target list for those conversations
16:30:56 <Karen> Luc: that is good news
16:31:12 <Karen> ...not sure if there is something similar for Asia or Europe. Is APA US only?
16:31:15 <Karen> Leslie: Not sure
16:31:20 <Karen> Luc: I don't know from European POV
16:31:25 <Karen> ...ok, we have work to do there
16:31:26 <dauwhe> q?
16:31:28 <Karen> ...agree with you
16:31:38 <Karen> ...to bring awareness and support to publishing community
16:31:48 <Avneesh> q+
16:31:52 <Karen> ...we could also distributors and aggregators who would have easier time to ingest
16:31:58 <Karen> ...Wendy, I think you would support
16:32:01 <Karen> ack Avneesh
16:32:01 <laudrain> ack Avneesh
16:32:10 <Karen> Avneesh: Maybe a different problem and solve in a different way
16:32:18 <Karen> ...when we see migration from EPUB2 to EPUB3
16:32:22 <Karen> ...this is a new specification
16:32:34 <Karen> ...it's a tall call to expect someone to start implementing a spec in their company
16:32:43 <Karen> ...direction of outreach should be have people join the CG
16:32:47 <Karen> ...or get them invovled
16:33:00 <Karen> ...here is a spec, please follow, everyone will expect worst fears
16:33:05 <Karen> ...which may not be a good result
16:33:15 <Karen> ...if people are participating or observing discussions, then there is a chance
16:33:19 <Karen> ...lowers barriers
16:33:23 <Karen> ...set a big example
16:33:35 <Karen> ...Hachette and others should start to implement and set an example
16:33:43 <Karen> ...Objective of outreach should be to increase involvement
16:33:45 <Karen> Luc: You are right
16:33:56 <Karen> ...more comments on that subject?
16:34:08 <jeff> q+
16:34:14 <Karen> ...Communications on EPUB3.2 and EPUBCheck4.2
16:34:22 <Karen> ...DAISY Consortium sent information
16:34:26 <Karen> ...also on GitHub and Twitter
16:34:34 <Karen> ...we requested Testimonials last week
16:34:39 <Karen> ...there are 4-5 already
16:34:43 <tzviya> s/4.2/4.2.1
16:34:47 <Karen> ...more will come, including from Hachette
16:35:02 <Karen> Luc: and a small blog post I wrote last week
16:35:14 <Karen> ...small bug fixed in EPUBCheck; latest version is 4.2.1
16:35:25 <Karen> ...added thanks to people who have been instrumental in this production
16:35:33 <Karen> ...we should spread the word in our different countries
16:35:42 <Karen> ...I have seen some information in different newsletters
16:35:50 <Karen> ...a question raised last Fall
16:36:02 <Karen> ...to have a clearer vision from vendors' ingestion
16:36:05 <Karen> ...it was in last call
16:36:28 <laudrain> q?
16:36:34 <Karen> ...what do you think of idea to have a survey about EPUB3.2 and EPUBCheck4.2.1 in their ingestion process?
16:36:35 <Karen> ack Jeff
16:36:44 <Karen> Jeff: I was on for the previous agenda item; you can come back to me
16:37:24 <Karen> Luc: should we also receive testimonials from distributors, vendors, besides publishers?
16:37:31 <liisamk> +1 to testimonials from everyone
16:37:32 <Karen> q+
16:38:01 <jeff> Karen: We support wide adoption and promotion for EPUB 3.2 and EPUBCheck 4.2.1
16:38:18 <laudrain> testimonials at https://www.w3.org/publishing/
16:38:23 <jeff> ... our challenge is to gather community support
16:38:39 <jeff> ... e.g. from Members of WG, BG, and CG
16:38:46 <jeff> ... should we get more to get involved
16:38:48 <liisamk> q+
16:38:55 <jeff> ... or should we focus on testimonials?
16:38:58 <jeff> ack kare
16:39:01 <Karen> scribenick: Karen
16:39:06 <Karen> ack Liisa
16:39:16 <Karen> Liisa: I think we would be hard pressed to get testimonials
16:39:28 <Karen> ...a testimonial requires going through corporate PR departments
16:39:37 <Karen> ...and that is not always the biggest priority on my PR depts' mind
16:39:41 <Karen> ...to try to get that kinds of support
16:39:50 <Karen> ...I would like to see a list and whether they have any commitment or timeframe
16:40:04 <Karen> ...it would be super helpful for publishers if you knew that three partners would switch to validating
16:40:12 <Karen> ...that would put pressure on the adoption process
16:40:21 <laudrain> q+
16:40:29 <Karen> ...Would be helpful if people were willing to acknowledge and make that information public
16:40:36 <Karen> Luc: a bit of a chicken and egg question
16:40:48 <Karen> ...the pitch is that we are already producing EPUB3.2.5
16:40:59 <Karen> ...I don't think it has to be sold to PR deparments
16:41:03 <Karen> ...or to legal departments
16:41:06 <liisamk> q+
16:41:11 <laudrain> ack laudrain
16:41:14 <Karen> ...that is not something I am feeling
16:41:16 <Karen> ack Liisa
16:41:25 <Karen> Liisa: I am saying a testimonial would have to be sold
16:41:28 <dauwhe> s/EPUB3.2.5/EPUB 3.2 Files/
16:41:39 <Karen> ...but there are a number of smaller players who are not making 3.0
16:41:53 <laudrain> q+
16:41:57 <Karen> ...if you just hit @ button in InDesign; people have to make changes in their workflow process
16:42:02 <Karen> ...the more help we can provide the better
16:42:09 <Karen> Luc: I have seen some issues in France
16:42:12 <Karen> ...asking questions
16:42:15 <Karen> ...they are taking this seriously
16:42:20 <Karen> ...on the production side
16:42:29 <Karen> ...I think obviously it will still be the most dynamic one
16:42:39 <Karen> ...It is really running eight weeks with EPUBCheck
16:42:47 <Karen> ...as soon as we can validate EPUB3.2.5
16:42:54 <Karen> ...i did explicitly explain to Apple
16:42:59 <Karen> ...they asked me about EPUB3.2.5
16:43:04 <dauwhe> s/EPUB3.2.5/EPUB 3.2 Files/
16:43:05 <Karen> ...I mentioned release candidate
16:43:11 <Karen> ...these files are valid
16:43:18 <Karen> ...We are in a good position
16:43:36 <Karen> ...with this backward compatiblity we are in a good position to make all of the industry move
16:43:48 <Karen> ...we unfortunately don't have usage stats of EPUBCheck
16:43:54 <Karen> ...I asked about downloading stat
16:44:03 <jeff> q+ with a f/u question about audiobooks
16:44:07 <Karen> ...its does not show if people are using in day-to-day processes
16:44:10 <Karen> ack JEff
16:44:24 <Karen> Jeff: I just wanted to go back to audio discussion
16:44:42 <Karen> ...I got that Leslie was going to take the lead to connect with the new leadership of the APA
16:44:58 <Karen> ...but there was also discussion about distributors, aggregators, stakeholders who need to do this work
16:45:11 <Karen> ...I did not hear anyone specifically volunteers; what should be done by whom
16:45:21 <Karen> ...perhaps get more crisp after this meeting today
16:45:31 <Karen> Luc: obviously, Leslie talked about APA
16:45:41 <Karen> ...I will try to find people in Europe for audio book publishers
16:45:45 <Karen> ...I take the action for Europe
16:45:48 <Karen> ...for Asia, I don't know
16:46:04 <laudrain> q?
16:46:08 <laudrain> ack laudrain
16:46:10 <Karen> Jeff: Maybe someone could take the action to bring the discussion to the Asia-friendly call
16:46:17 <Karen> ...rest of US needs outreach as well
16:46:19 <Karen> Luc: Let's do that
16:46:24 <liisamk> q+
16:46:24 <Karen> ...and make some forward progress
16:46:27 <Karen> ...Ok
16:46:27 <dauwhe> q+
16:46:31 <liisamk> Q-
16:46:43 <Karen> ack Liisa
16:47:02 <Karen> Liisa: Before we leave the [audio books] topic, we could all look at the spec and think about whom we know who should be reading it
16:47:06 <Karen> ack Dauwhe
16:47:08 <laudrain> ack dauwhe
16:47:16 <Karen> Dave: I wanted to comment on the communications around EPUB3.2
16:47:25 <Karen> ...I think we need to think more about our goals around this communication
16:47:33 <Karen> ...I don't really care if they use EPUB3.2 s written
16:47:45 <Karen> ...I do care about them upgrading EPUBCheck
16:47:57 <Karen> ...and I also care about sharing how we are now doing this work in W3C
16:48:08 <Karen> ...you could describe this as response to legitimate community concerns
16:48:15 <Karen> ...Many of you had nasty bugs around EPUB type validation
16:48:26 <Karen> ...where what EPUBCheck allowed; what terms got depricated
16:48:36 <Karen> ...people I know lost sleep, but we fixed that issue
16:48:36 <tzviya> dauwhe++
16:48:39 <Karen> ...we made life better in that sense
16:48:45 <laudrain> +1 to Dave
16:49:03 <Karen> ...I think there are a lot of other ways to describe this process and responding to the needs of the ebook community
16:49:22 <liisamk> +1 to better response to needs
16:49:25 <Karen> ...express this rather than going through laundry lists of things; not that many people care about those; but they care about EPUBCheck
16:49:30 <tzviya> +1 to dauwhe
16:49:34 <wendyreid> +1
16:49:37 <Karen> ...that may have more value than testimonials from people you have never heard of
16:49:41 <Karen> Luc: Very good idea
16:49:46 <Karen> ...maybe another blog post from Dave?
16:49:56 <Karen> ...thank you
16:50:13 <Karen> ...to jump ahead to DigPub Summit
16:50:19 <Karen> ...Romain and I will speak about EPUB today
16:50:22 <George> q+
16:50:24 <Karen> ...and all the work done by W3C today
16:50:37 <Karen> ...and give this opportunity for EPUB to be accessible
16:50:45 <Karen> ..we will communicate in this arena, just what Dave said
16:50:47 <Karen> ack George
16:50:49 <laudrain> ack George
16:51:02 <Karen> George: I am feeling the urge to write a document targeted to the Chronicle of Higher Ed
16:51:18 <Karen> ...talking to chancellors at universities, asking to upgrade the publications they create
16:51:29 <Karen> ...we now have so much higher quality available because of EPUB
16:51:37 <Karen> ...and put this under the nose of people from the top down
16:51:41 <Karen> ...we have done a lot from bottom up
16:52:17 <Karen> ...but would be helpful for people in leadership positions to understand that HTML and EPUB documents are far superior to PDF and this can influence the quality of education in the world
16:52:27 <Karen> Topic: AB Elections; Avneesh candidacy
16:52:42 <Karen> Luc: If you know any AC Reps who have not voted, let's encourage them to vote for Avneesh
16:52:46 <Karen> ...for the AB
16:52:52 <Karen> Topic: DigPub Summit
16:53:13 <Karen> Luc: we are putting the final details to the program and it will be available very soon now
16:53:22 <Karen> ...it is a huge event with dense and packed presentations
16:53:29 <Karen> ...We had a real thought about
16:53:43 <Karen> ...having every part of @ to be exposed; some diversity of countries, gender
16:53:50 <Karen> ...I think it will be a very good event; and it's in Paris
16:53:51 <laudrain> q?
16:54:05 <Karen> Topic: PubBG event in Fukuoka
16:54:22 <Karen> ...Daihei and Japanese publishers are organizing this for the morning of Thursday, 19 Sept.
16:54:28 <Karen> ...TPAC Registration is now open
16:54:33 <Karen> ...schedule of the groups is prepared
16:54:43 <Karen> ...Question for Ivan about how to contribute to the @ HTML
16:54:48 <ivan> q+
16:54:49 <Karen> ...not sure which group cares about that
16:54:51 <Karen> ack Ivan
16:55:01 <Karen> Ivan: I don't have a definitive answer
16:55:16 <Karen> ...by coincidence I met last week at conference in San Francisco
16:55:30 <Karen> ...one of the guys who was discussing this in the Accessibility work
16:55:43 <Karen> ...he said he would try to get this pushed first by Acess. group to contribute use cases
16:55:48 <Karen> ...what we could do now
16:55:59 <Karen> ...is to have a clear idea...and have heard some controversial reactions
16:56:07 <Karen> ...see if there really are terms in the EPUB type
16:56:09 <tzviya> q+
16:56:21 <Karen> ...that are essential and should be somehow selvaged for web publications or not
16:56:27 <Karen> ...I have heard different reactions on that
16:56:36 <Karen> ...We have DPub ARIA work
16:56:52 <Karen> ...our job at first is to really understand if publishing community does or does not need this kind of HTML attribute
16:57:01 <Karen> ...where info can be put without affecting accessibility
16:57:06 <laudrain> q?
16:57:14 <Karen> ...just giving information about the purpose of a certain section
16:57:15 <laudrain> ack tzviya
16:57:16 <Karen> ack Tzviya
16:57:28 <Karen> Tzviya: I have not heard anything about the purpose attribute
16:57:34 <ivan> q+
16:57:44 <Karen> ...think the work would be happening in the PubCG or possibly HTML living standard work
16:57:51 <Karen> ...does anyone have any links/pointers
16:57:57 <Karen> ...surprised I have not heard anything at all
16:58:06 <Karen> ...especially with work going on in ARIA with custom elements
16:58:14 <Karen> ...I am suspicious that this will take off in ARIA
16:58:17 <Karen> ...role parity work
16:58:20 <liisamk> q+
16:58:26 <Karen> ...i would not get too optimistic at this point in time
16:58:34 <laudrain> ack ivan
16:58:35 <Karen> ...we should look at custom elements and how that is being made to work in ARIA
16:58:36 <Karen> ack Ivan
16:58:38 <tzviya> s/PubCG/WICG
16:58:40 <Karen> Ivan: just to be very clear
16:58:47 <Karen> ..not something I heard about until last Tuesday
16:59:02 <Karen> ...Since TPAC i did not hear anything about it; just conicidence
16:59:07 <Karen> ...one of the APA WG folks
16:59:13 <Karen> Tzviya: John Folliot
16:59:19 <Karen> Ivan: yes, that's him
16:59:22 <laudrain> ack liisamk
16:59:24 <Karen> ack Liisa
16:59:35 <dauwhe> q+
16:59:46 <Karen> Liisa: I think it would be very interesting to  have a conversation whether this is important separate from Accessiblity
16:59:51 <Karen> ..what are expectations for how to handle something
16:59:56 <Karen> ...some things get lost
17:00:08 <Karen> ...if just ARIA roles and just for Accessibilty circumstances
17:00:17 <dauwhe> q-
17:00:22 <Karen> Luc: we tried to start with the proper question in the BG; we should continue this
17:00:28 <Karen> ...we are at the top of the hour
17:00:40 <Karen> ...I wanted to ask Dave about plans for future of EPUB3 CG
17:00:47 <Karen> ...we can ask about this on the next call
17:00:51 <Karen> ...thank you everyone
17:01:00 <Karen> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:01:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/05/21-pbg-minutes.html Karen
18:50:42 <Rachel> Rachel has joined #pbg
18:54:59 <Karen_> Karen_ has joined #pbg
19:15:55 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pbg
19:16:50 <dauwhe> RRSAgent, bye
19:16:50 <RRSAgent> I see no action items