13:57:56 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #solid
13:57:56 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/05/09-solid-irc
14:01:17 <Matthias_Evering> Matthias_Evering has joined #solid
14:01:30 <Matthias_Evering> present+
14:02:18 <elf-pavlik> https://www.w3.org/2002/03/RRSAgent
14:02:25 <elf-pavlik> present+
14:02:46 <KjetilK> present+
14:02:50 <michielbdejong> michielbdejong has joined #solid
14:02:53 <michielbdejong> present+
14:03:02 <megoth> megoth has joined #solid
14:03:24 <megoth> i18n = internationalization
14:03:43 <mpigott> present+
14:04:39 <Michael_Thornburgh> Michael_Thornburgh has joined #solid
14:04:40 <elf-pavlik> TOPIC: i18n - we discussed a11y on one of the previous calls, we could quickly see who currently puts efforts into i18n
14:05:11 <TallTed> i18n is generally pronounced eye-eighteen-enn or internationalization
14:05:38 <Mitzi> Mitzi has joined #Solid
14:05:46 <megoth> q+
14:05:47 <Mitzi> list of apps review
14:06:03 <timbl> timbl has joined #solid
14:06:08 <Mitzi> wondering who is taking responsibility for i18n
14:06:13 <michielbdejong> q+
14:06:43 <michielbdejong> q?
14:06:53 <elf-pavlik> scribe: elf-pavlik
14:06:56 <michielbdejong> what was the command again to see the queue?
14:07:02 <Mitzi> Would like to keep best practices recorded and defined people to ensure that the practices are implemented
14:07:08 <michielbdejong> q- (i was going to say the same thing as Arne :)
14:07:09 <elf-pavlik> megoth: SDK has support for multiple languages
14:07:19 <elf-pavlik> q?
14:07:39 <megoth> seems the bot is missing?
14:08:13 <KjetilK> q+
14:08:17 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #solid
14:08:29 <TallTed> q?
14:08:31 <Mitzi> great, thank you
14:08:32 <michielbdejong> i just did '/invite Zakim #solid'
14:08:40 <michielbdejong> present+
14:08:45 <michielbdejong> q?
14:08:48 <elf-pavlik> KjetilK: tests I focus on works on HTTP layer
14:08:50 <michielbdejong> present?
14:09:09 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:09:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/05/09-solid-minutes.html TallTed
14:09:14 <TallTed> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:09:29 <michielbdejong> present+ michiel
14:10:31 <Mitzi> would be good to have a task force dedicated to putting attention to that
14:11:20 <TallTed> present+ elf-pavlik Mitzi Matthias_Evering megoth Hyuryu Michael_Thornburgh dmitriz mpigott TallTed
14:11:31 <Michael_Thornburgh> <-- "zenomt" on github
14:12:06 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:12:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/05/09-solid-minutes.html TallTed
14:12:20 <TallTed> chair: Mitzi
14:12:57 <TallTed> meeting: Solid CG
14:13:22 <TallTed> date: 09 May 2019
14:13:41 <elf-pavlik> TOPIC: websocket access tickets in the `Updates-Via` header - see https://github.com/solid/web-access-control-spec/issues/44
14:14:02 <elf-pavlik> michielbdejong: if you open websockets from browser you can't add Authorization header
14:14:14 <elf-pavlik> ... one could include it in URL as query parameter
14:14:29 <michielbdejong> https://github.com/solid/web-access-control-spec/issues/44
14:14:31 <elf-pavlik> q?
14:14:37 <elf-pavlik> q+
14:14:46 <Mitzi> action: set up a team with a taskforce for accessibility and internationalisation and collect information in a .md including links
14:14:46 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
14:15:20 <elf-pavlik> michielbdejong: I hope we can do it without adding breaking changes to the spec
14:16:09 <KjetilK> q+
14:16:12 <elf-pavlik> elf-pavlik: maybe we can use Server-Sent Events
14:16:28 <elf-pavlik> KjetilK: I read the spec but didn't like it
14:16:59 <elf-pavlik> ... I don't know websockets protocol, just skimmed the spec, it has some opening handshake, how does that relate to what we need
14:17:19 <elf-pavlik> michielbdejong: if you open ws from commandline you can send Authorizatio header, but you can't do it from the browser
14:17:39 <TallTed> Log: https://www.w3.org/2019/05/09-solid-irc
14:17:41 <elf-pavlik> ... using a cookie, or token in URL would work in a browser
14:18:03 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:18:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/05/09-solid-minutes.html TallTed
14:18:22 <elf-pavlik> michielbdejong: i could try to make it work and it might answer some questions if this would work
14:18:30 <KjetilK> ack me
14:19:06 <elf-pavlik> q-
14:19:08 <KjetilK> +1 to experiments by implementation :-)
14:19:15 <megoth> Kjetil: please mute ;)
14:19:36 <megoth> +1 on experiments from me as well ^_^
14:20:06 <elf-pavlik> TOPIC: JSON-LD ACL
14:20:13 <Matthias_Evering> experiments with rdflib from here
14:20:28 <elf-pavlik> michielbdejong: when you share document you ad .acl file and usually you do that using Turtle syntax
14:20:46 <elf-pavlik> ... issue 45 in web-access-control repo
14:21:13 <megoth> q+
14:21:13 <elf-pavlik> q+
14:21:48 <elf-pavlik> megoth: I think creators of the vocab assumed that RDF processors will speak all standard formats
14:22:00 <elf-pavlik> ... some JSON-LD processors don't
14:22:03 <megoth> q-
14:22:31 <elf-pavlik> http://rdf.js.org/ ?
14:22:33 <mpigott> Apache Jena (Java) can translate between all of the major formats
14:22:50 <mpigott> https://jena.apache.org/documentation/io/
14:23:07 <TallTed> q?
14:23:11 <megoth> rdflib does allow for translating between JSON-LD and TTL
14:25:22 <megoth> (realize I'm not 100% sure about that actually... but I`m quite certain it does...)
14:25:28 <megoth> (realize I'm not 100% sure about that actually... but I'm quite certain it does...)
14:26:29 <TallTed> rdflib *says* it "Reads and writes RDF/XML, Turtle and N3; Reads RDFa and JSON-LD" -- https://github.com/linkeddata/rdflib.js/
14:26:57 <megoth> thx
14:28:19 <elf-pavlik> michielbdejong: it's hard to write RDF apps in JS, some things work in rdf-ext, some in rdflib.js
14:28:34 <elf-pavlik> elf-pavlik:  http://rdf.js.org/
14:28:53 <elf-pavlik> q?
14:28:58 <elf-pavlik> q-
14:29:33 <elf-pavlik> Mitzi: I see a lot of open issues on spec, some weeks ago we went through all of them
14:29:49 <elf-pavlik> ... it was helpful to get up to speed and see what needs to be decided
14:29:59 <elf-pavlik> ... we setup some milestones with solid team
14:30:11 <elf-pavlik> ... some issues are from 2015
14:30:25 <Mitzi> https://github.com/solid/information/blob/master/decision-making-processes.md
14:30:37 <elf-pavlik> ... we need to decide how we decide
14:30:56 <TallTed> PS rdflib does apparently have work toward JSON-LD output -- see https://github.com/linkeddata/rdflib.js/issues/303
14:31:15 <elf-pavlik> Mitzi, I think for each of the issues we need to know the problem
14:31:28 <elf-pavlik> ... each one needs to be able to propose solution with prons and cons
14:31:37 <elf-pavlik> ... we need to decide who needs to be able to vote
14:31:55 <elf-pavlik> ... to avoid blocking by someone who might not have stake in the project
14:32:30 <elf-pavlik> Mitzi, just a proposal to discuss it, not a final decision
14:32:55 <Matthias_Evering> ... feels like a visitor and would like to be tolerated as beginner
14:33:34 <elf-pavlik> Mitzi, I think that issues from 2015 should get resolved at some point soon
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14:33:53 <elf-pavlik> q+
14:33:55 <megoth> q+
14:34:10 <elf-pavlik> Mike: how would votes take place?
14:34:11 <dmitriz> q+
14:34:23 <elf-pavlik> Mitzi: suggestions welcome
14:34:25 <elf-pavlik> https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Process/
14:34:44 <Mitzi> w3c process document might have some guidance
14:35:11 <elf-pavlik> Mitzi: i did read it, it has some examples how other people go about it
14:35:30 <mpigott> (For the future readers of this transcript, I’m Mike!)
14:36:02 <elf-pavlik> megoth: Really good that you try tackling this challenge, i wonder how this could work in practice
14:36:23 <elf-pavlik> ... maybe we can find more sources of inspiration
14:37:02 <elf-pavlik> q+
14:37:19 <megoth> +1 on starting with a non-controversial issue
14:37:33 <elf-pavlik> dmitriz: I think we need some kind of process
14:37:54 <elf-pavlik> ... W3C is heavy weight and it doesn't say how to decide
14:38:24 <TallTed> W3 process starts with "build consensus" and typically has a fallback to "vote, with majority rule"
14:38:50 <elf-pavlik> dmitriz, Soshana is a scholar of open source technologies, she studies how various open source projects decide how to decide, how to do practical things
14:39:30 <michielbdejong> have to run, sorry! present-
14:40:52 <elf-pavlik> elf-pavlik: sharing how we do it in RDFJS CG
14:41:07 <TallTed> ( present± is meeting-long; there's no overall tracking of mid-meeting arrivals/departures.  but that will be seen in the log and/or minutes. )
14:42:09 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:42:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/05/09-solid-minutes.html TallTed
14:42:44 <elf-pavlik> Mitzi: do you agree that people who can vote can be MIT team and Solid CG participants?
14:43:01 <elf-pavlik> ... any objections to add people to this list?
14:43:03 <elf-pavlik> q?
14:43:05 <elf-pavlik> q-
14:43:15 <elf-pavlik> dmitriz: no objections, everyone can join CG
14:43:18 <dmitriz> q- dmitriz
14:43:24 <megoth> q-
14:44:09 <TallTed> https://github.com/solid/solid-spec/issues
14:44:22 <KjetilK> +1
14:44:28 <elf-pavlik> https://github.com/solid/solid-spec/pull/92
14:44:35 <elf-pavlik> remove .ttl from RDFSource URIs
14:44:46 <mpigott> q+
14:45:10 <elf-pavlik> mpigott: I thought that DID and WebID-TLS came out, what happened with that?
14:45:45 <elf-pavlik> ... in last weeks notes one can see that
14:46:01 <elf-pavlik> https://www.w3.org/community/solid/wiki/Meetings#IRC_log
14:46:57 <elf-pavlik> q+
14:49:06 <Mitzi> https://github.com/solid/information#solid-learning-material
14:49:22 <TallTed> and we come around again to the question of primacy -- spec vs NSS implementation (vs reference implementation, if not NSS)
14:49:36 <elf-pavlik> elf-pavlik: I see it as one of hard issues which may have more disagreements, I think we should start addressing it ASAP and don't kick the can down the road
14:50:16 <elf-pavlik> q?
14:50:17 <elf-pavlik> q-
14:50:21 <elf-pavlik> queue=
14:50:22 <mpigott> q-
14:50:54 <elf-pavlik> RRSAgent, please publish minutes
14:50:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/05/09-solid-minutes.html elf-pavlik
14:51:03 <elf-pavlik> RRSAgent, please make minutes public
14:51:03 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'please make minutes public', elf-pavlik.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:51:09 <elf-pavlik> RRSAgent, please set minutes public
14:51:09 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'please set minutes public', elf-pavlik.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:51:18 <TallTed> elf-pavlik - already public :-)
14:51:32 <TallTed> trackbot, end meeting
14:51:32 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
14:52:01 <TallTed> Zakim, who's here?
14:52:01 <Zakim> Present: michielbdejong, elf-pavlik, Mitzi, Matthias_Evering, megoth, Hyuryu, Michael_Thornburgh, dmitriz, mpigott, TallTed
14:52:04 <Zakim> On IRC I see hyuryu, Zakim, timbl, Mitzi, megoth, Matthias_Evering, RRSAgent, dmitriz, elf-pavlik, TallTed, mpigott, amy, KjetilK, jonas1, csarven, davidm, trackbot
14:52:13 <TallTed> Zakim, bye
14:52:14 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been michielbdejong, elf-pavlik, Mitzi, Matthias_Evering, megoth, Hyuryu, Michael_Thornburgh, dmitriz, mpigott, TallTed
14:52:14 <Zakim> Zakim has left #solid
14:55:03 <TallTed> TallTed has changed the topic to: Solid CG - next call 2019-05-16 1600 CEST - agenda https://www.w3.org/community/solid/wiki/Meetings (local times https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Solid+CG+concall&iso=20190509T16&p1=215&ah=1)
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