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15:01:57 <trackbot> Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
15:01:57 <trackbot> Date: 11 April 2019
15:02:04 <nigel> log: https://www.w3.org/2019/04/11-tt-irc
15:02:11 <nigel> Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/32
15:02:18 <nigel> Present: Gary, Nigel
15:02:20 <nigel> Chair: Nigel
15:02:22 <pal> pal has joined #tt
15:02:24 <nigel> scribe: nigel
15:02:38 <nigel> scribe: cyril
15:02:57 <nigel> Regrets: Thierry, Glenn
15:03:25 <nigel> Present+ Pierre
15:04:10 <nigel> Present+ Philippe
15:05:18 <plh> plh has joined #tt
15:06:32 <nigel> Regrets+ Andreas
15:06:33 <cyril> Topic: this meeting
15:06:58 <cyril> nigel: next week's meeting we have regrets from Nigel, Philippe and Pierre
15:07:12 <cyril> ... so I propose to cancel next week's meeting
15:07:25 <cyril> cyril: +!
15:07:36 <cyril> s/+!/+1/
15:07:50 <cyril> nigel: ok cancelled
15:08:18 <cyril> nigel: today we have charter, profile registry, webvtt IR
15:08:47 <cyril> ... TTML2 and 3 PR
15:09:05 <cyril> pal: I'd like to talk about roadmap and requirements
15:09:51 <cyril> ... I'd like to work on IMSC next and would like to know what the plan is
15:10:13 <plh> https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/175
15:10:15 <cyril> plh: I have an FYI
15:10:48 <cyril> plh: we will look at subtitles and VR
15:11:03 <cyril> ... some of you may be interested, just watch the issue
15:12:02 <cyril> topic: TTWG Charter
15:12:27 <cyril> nigel: we'll come back to this topic later
15:12:38 <cyril> topic: TTML Profile Registry Actions, Pull Requests and Issues
15:12:45 <cyril> nigel: I've not seen any comment
15:12:58 <cyril> ... cyril raised 71
15:13:11 <cyril> ... but we want to publish now
15:13:57 <cyril> cyril: I'm fine with publishing and republishing when issue 71 is resolved
15:14:37 <cyril> nigel: 2 weeks ago we recorded the resolution to publish it
15:15:03 <cyril> ... so we are at the end of our review period
15:15:33 <cyril> ... so plh can publish it
15:16:14 <nigel> scribe: nigel
15:16:29 <nigel> Topic: The codecs parameter should have a formal definition of the use of the combination operators. tt-profile-registry#71
15:16:35 <nigel> github: https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issues/71
15:16:51 <nigel> Cyril: I discussed this with Mike and think he has the same view as me. We can discuss this on a call when
15:17:01 <nigel> .. all of I, Mike and Glenn are on the call.
15:17:20 <nigel> Nigel: Okay, let's come back to this another day
15:17:23 <nigel> github-bot, end topic
15:17:32 <cyril> scribe: cyril
15:17:44 <cyril> topic: WebVTT Implementation Report
15:18:20 <cyril> nigel: gary sent responses on the Japanese requirements
15:18:39 <cyril> gkatsev: there are some features and some are missing
15:18:53 <plh> q+
15:18:56 <cyril> ... I want to work on adding them but it shouldn't block the current process
15:19:18 <cyril> nigel: what do you mean?
15:19:34 <cyril> ... are there features in the document that have no test?
15:19:55 <cyril> ... we need to make sure that we have tests and should include them in the IR
15:20:19 <cyril> gkatsev: there are Japanese features that are necessary but not included in current WebVTT and that should be added in the future
15:20:27 <cyril> ... text-emphasis is not included in the white list
15:20:42 <cyril> nigel: I was concerned about features that are but not in the tests
15:20:55 <cyril> gkatsev: yes, those tests should be added
15:21:03 <nigel> ack plh
15:21:10 <cyril> plh: I reached out to APA
15:21:27 <cyril> ... to double check if they have anything to say about the features at-risk
15:21:31 <cyril> ... that's done
15:22:03 <cyril> ... the period ends may 2nd, and unless anything comes up, we should push PR after may 2nd and push any new feature to v2
15:22:29 <cyril> ... APA are aware of it but did not send response yet
15:22:57 <cyril> ... regarding Japanese, we may want to reach out to the i18n group and see if they are ok with delaying the missing features to v2
15:23:30 <cyril> ... obviously, there is work to do between now and may 2nd
15:24:02 <cyril> ... I'm trying to get everything aligned so that we are in a good position after may 2nd
15:24:11 <cyril> nigel: anything else to know regarding progress on the IR
15:24:14 <cyril> gkatsev: no
15:24:30 <cyril> Topic: TTML2 and TTML3 Pull Requests
15:24:47 <cyril> nigel: since Glenn is not there, I don't know if we can tackle these
15:25:48 <cyril> nigel: the issues are https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/1034
15:26:48 <cyril> ... and the PR https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/1054
15:27:13 <plh> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:27:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/04/11-tt-minutes.html plh
15:27:34 <cyril> pal: the one I'm really concerned about is 1043
15:28:32 <plh> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/2019/NOTE-ttml-profile-registry-20190411/ TT Registry
15:30:10 <cyril> Topic: TTWG Charter
15:30:18 <cyril> nigel: we are in a good shape I think
15:30:24 <nigel> -> https://w3c.github.io/charter-timed-text/
15:30:49 <cyril> ... the latest draft is simplified quite a lot
15:31:00 <cyril> plh: I did not review but I like the spirit
15:31:14 <cyril> ... basically what matters is the scope section
15:31:30 <cyril> ... to make sure there is no overlap between groups
15:31:57 <cyril> nigel: some sections need staff input
15:32:21 <cyril> ... dates, drafts that we use a starting points ...
15:32:44 <cyril> plh: I should have an action item to have a pass at it
15:33:06 <cyril> ... for example some sentences from our template have been removed and should be added back (security and accessibility)
15:33:19 <cyril> ... also section numbering consistency is greatly appreciated
15:33:25 <plh> https://rawgit.com/w3c/charter-drafts/gh-pages/charter-template.html
15:33:57 <plh> Each specification should contain a section detailing all known security and privacy implications for implementers, Web authors, and end users.
15:34:01 <cyril> plh: in the success criteria section, there are 2 important sentences that should not be removed
15:34:19 <cyril> pal: it's present
15:34:24 <cyril> nigel: not in that form
15:35:28 <cyril> plh: I see also that you have an accessibility
15:35:36 <cyril> .. so that's fine by me
15:35:53 <cyril> ... I'll still renumber sections
15:36:13 <cyril> plh: you should raise an issue against the charter template
15:36:45 <cyril> ... we can't let one group change the charter, we should change the template
15:37:21 <cyril> pal: your request is to move the entire success criteria in the scope section
15:37:24 <cyril> plh: yes
15:46:47 <cyril> nigel: the plan is to send it for AC review beginning of may
15:47:26 <cyril> Topic: Timelines
15:47:49 <cyril> nigel: some of the deliverables that we have in our requirements need new documents
15:48:00 <cyril> ... live contributions of TTML and Audio Descriptions
15:48:08 <cyril> ... I have internal draft
15:48:14 <cyril> ... for live contribution
15:48:49 <cyril> ... I'll probably be asking for a repo in some weeks
15:49:02 <cyril> ... on the Audio Description Profile of TTML2
15:49:11 <cyril> ... I've reconvened the community group
15:49:19 <cyril> ... and we had a successful meeting in march
15:49:35 <cyril> ... I'm expecting to apply editorial changes in the next few weeks
15:49:53 <cyril> ... and we can use that as a starting point for the charter and a WD from this group
15:50:30 <cyril> cyril: I have the plan to write a spec on Karaoke
15:50:48 <cyril> nigel: the other one is XR, VR, 360
15:51:16 <cyril> ... I'm not aware any document being written
15:51:25 <cyril> cyril: what about the extended use of fonts for images
15:51:48 <cyril> nigel: that certainly forms one potential solution for the problem
15:52:05 <cyril> ... I think we need an explainer for these
15:52:18 <cyril> pal: in the case of IMSC 1.1, we created a formal req doc
15:52:28 <cyril> ... and then a draft for IMSC 1.1
15:52:34 <cyril> ... here we do not have a req doc
15:53:09 <cyril> ... is the absence of a req doc going to block the process?
15:53:19 <cyril> nigel: it's good practice to have it
15:53:27 <cyril> pal: will it be a blocker?
15:53:41 <cyril> ... I can be happy with either
15:53:48 <cyril> ... I liked IMSC1.1's process
15:54:00 <cyril> ... but if we don't say it must, we're not going to do it
15:54:13 <cyril> nigel: I don't think it's a blocker in terms of process
15:54:16 <cyril> ... it's our choice
15:54:34 <cyril> ... but it's not our choice to write an explainer
15:54:43 <cyril> cyril: I don't understand the explainer
15:54:55 <cyril> nigel: groups like tag need an explainer in order to review work
15:54:57 <nigel> -> https://w3ctag.github.io/explainers TAG Explainers
15:55:00 <cyril> ... and we need tag review
15:55:38 <cyril> ... since it's needed, it's good to have that at the beginning
15:55:56 <cyril> ... it's really basic, but it's a good idea
15:56:53 <cyril> cyril: thanks
15:57:16 <cyril> nigel: turning that into a lightweight requirements doc would be simple
15:57:33 <cyril> ... the one piece for which we have reqs is the Audio Description Profile
15:57:50 <nigel> scribe: nigel
15:57:58 <nigel> Cyril: I agree with Pierre we need to move faster on these.
15:58:06 <nigel> .. Deadline for 1st Explainer draft and 1st spec draft?
15:58:22 <nigel> Nigel: Spec or Requirements draft?
15:58:37 <nigel> Cyril: You said we can derive the requirements from the explainer, so we don't need that now or at all?
15:58:58 <nigel> Nigel: I imagined we would create a dry requirements document using the explainer as motivation.
15:59:18 <nigel> Cyril: I don't really care about the requirements doc, I will do it if needed but it seems only the explainer and the spec
15:59:23 <nigel> .. are required documents. Two should be enough.
15:59:54 <nigel> Nigel: I'm prepared to look at the explainers and see if they are adequate for use as requirements.
15:59:58 <nigel> Cyril: Fair enough.
16:00:10 <nigel> .. Back to Pierre's comments, if we want a specification by the end of the year we should have started already.
16:00:16 <nigel> .. Having a deadline is probably helpful.
16:00:48 <nigel> Nigel: OK, any proposals for a deadline?
16:02:00 <nigel> Pierre: Looking at IMSC 1.2 (I guess) do we need an explainer or do the issues suffice?
16:02:16 <nigel> .. One requirement is inline display of textual elements that cannot be expressed using common fonts.
16:02:36 <nigel> .. One solution is images, another is custom fonts. I'm proposing that we go down the path of custom fonts and
16:02:51 <nigel> .. pursue that as far as we can and see if it doesn't work because that is something already supported by other timed
16:02:59 <nigel> .. text systems and has least impact on the spec.
16:03:13 <nigel> .. My inclination would be to go down that path for IMSC 1.2 and I have started the editing work in that direction
16:03:16 <nigel> .. based on issue 472.
16:03:30 <nigel> .. If some folk still feel they must have inline images like SVG or bitmap then that's going to be a longer discussion
16:03:45 <nigel> .. because I know there are some users fundamentally opposed to any form of images in Text profile documents.
16:05:00 <nigel> Nigel: I think for IMSC it makes sense to duplicate the process for IMSC 1.1 and create a requirements document.
16:05:13 <nigel> Pierre: I think we can do that in 3 weeks. We have to have a set of baseline requirements documents and explainers.
16:05:16 <nigel> Cyril: Sure
16:06:10 <nigel> Nigel: That aligns nicely with the goal of sending the Charter for review at the beginning of May.
16:06:23 <nigel> .. (3 weeks is May 2).
16:08:27 <nigel> Pierre: Also in the back of my head I'm wondering if we need TTML3 this year.
16:08:42 <nigel> Nigel: Yes, there's not a huge set of changes that warrants a major point release, we could do everything in TTML2,
16:08:47 <nigel> .. even if that's TTML 2.1.
16:09:09 <nigel> Pierre: Yes, keep TTML3 on the charter for sure, but the current set of changes is small and may grow so we may want
16:09:15 <nigel> .. to publish it next year instead.
16:09:50 <nigel> Cyril: Yes, I think the extensions and IMSC 1.2 are important, but there is not a pressing list of urgent needs for TTML3 right now.
16:10:00 <nigel> .. I think we need to discuss this in our next call in 2 weeks.
16:10:01 <nigel> Nigel: Yes.
16:10:45 <nigel> Topic: Meeting close
16:11:01 <nigel> Nigel: Thanks everyone, let's adjourn, see you again in 2 weeks time. [adjourns meeting]
16:11:05 <nigel> rrsagent, make minutes
16:11:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/04/11-tt-minutes.html nigel
16:21:41 <nigel> s/github-bot, end topic//
16:25:36 <nigel> scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
16:25:38 <nigel> rrsagent, make minutes
16:25:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/04/11-tt-minutes.html nigel
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