23:59:05 RRSAgent has joined #pbg 23:59:05 logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/04/02-pbg-irc 23:59:14 Rrsagent, make logs public 00:00:16 present+ 00:00:35 present+ Karen 00:00:39 ShinyaTakami has joined #pbg 00:00:45 present+ 00:02:18 present+ 00:02:27 OZAWA has joined #pbg 00:02:39 Daihei_Shiohama has joined #pbg 00:02:43 scribenick: Karen 00:03:26 Liisa: Let's get started with updates 00:03:33 ...We welcome anyone who is new to the call 00:03:41 ...If you are new, please feel free to introduce yourself 00:03:54 Daihei: I see on irc 00:04:04 ...Ozawa-san, for first time I think on irc 00:04:12 ...are you on the Go-to-Meeting? 00:04:15 ...are you muted? 00:04:25 ...Liisa, can you hear me? 00:04:29 Liisa: yes 00:04:37 Daihei: shall I start to chair now? 00:04:40 Liisa: yes 00:04:49 Daihei: so the new members, anyone from Japan 00:04:54 My name is Ozawa Shogakukan Inc japan 00:04:55 ...you can speak in Japanese and I can translate 00:05:02 ...just say hello and who you are 00:05:58 Daihei: seems like nobody else 00:06:21 @: I just posted a report; can you add to the agenda 00:06:31 Daihei: under future discussion or start talking about it? We could do that 00:06:38 Liisa; let's talk about it after the fund raising 00:06:51 Daihei: I will call you Makoto-san after the fund raising and next steps reminder 00:06:59 ...Events calendar 00:07:13 ...on the agenda you can see the link to the Google calendar to see any publishing related events 00:07:21 Topic: Events calendar 00:07:29 As it is the first time, please concentrate on browsing. 00:07:29 Hi Ozawa-san, please join the call from https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/publ-wg/Meetings/gotomeetings 00:07:32 ...Liisa made this, thank you, and feel free to include any events 00:07:57 ...anyone sees it, and if you are attending, perhaps you can arrange for coordinating meetings if you post your schedule 00:08:09 Topic: Digital Publishing Summit in Paris, June 2019 00:08:19 Liisa: Laurent encourages everyone to attend 00:08:25 https://www.edrlab.org/events/dpub-summit-2019/ 00:08:29 ...W3C members/participants benefit from early bird rates 00:08:37 ...he says that the program is still under construction 00:08:44 ...Luc Audrain will introduce the benefits of EPUB2 00:08:52 ...and a lot of discussions on Accessibility 00:09:01 ...Ori @ will talk about Internationalization 00:09:10 ...and a talk about the achievements of the Pub WG 00:09:20 ...and you, Daihei and @ will give manga updates 00:09:30 ...New EU directives impacting publishing 00:09:37 ...voice access to audio and much more 00:09:41 ...also looking for sponsors 00:09:49 ...and weather in Paris in June will be sunny :) 00:09:54 Daihei: any questions or comments 00:10:18 ...will Idan cover i18n issues restricted to Israel, or will he cover Asian topics 00:10:28 Liisa: that is a good questions; we should reach out 00:10:41 Daihei: we'll look for his response tomorrow as it's midnight in Paris 00:10:45 ...and share that later 00:10:57 @: Who is going to speak about Accessibility? 00:11:01 Daihei: Liisa? 00:11:15 Liisa: Avneesh Singh and the new president of DAISY 00:11:26 Makoto-san: just want to make sure the issues are covered 00:11:31 Liisa: as does Luc 00:11:42 Daihei: anything else on Digital Publishing Summit in Paris 00:11:46 Topic: TPAC 2019 00:11:58 ...and the Publishing BG F2F meeting 00:12:11 ...and the community meeting 00:12:21 ...From 9:00am to 12:00pm 00:12:26 ...Agenda is not set yet 00:12:38 ...I submitted the schedule to W3C events team 00:12:55 ...we will discuss topics and presentations at the PubBG meeting in September 00:13:05 Makoto-san: Do you plan some event before the TPAC meeting? 00:13:10 Daihei: that is not planned yet 00:13:10 present+ ShinyaTakami 00:13:35 ...the reason for choosing the morning of Thursday 19 Sept is because Murai-sensei from Keio is able to attend at this time 00:13:44 ...the 14-15 were excluded from the meeting option 00:14:01 Makoto-san: I wonder if ISO arranges a sight seeing event so everyone can enjoy Fukuoka 00:14:05 +1 site seeing 00:14:18 liisamk_ has joined #pbg 00:14:27 Daihei: related to W3C Publishing, no reason not to have meetings, but officially we will coordinate the PubBG meeting on Thursday 00:14:36 Makoto-san and the Pub WG will meet on the 12-13 00:14:44 ...and after that I plan to have a social event 00:14:55 Daihei: would you please share the information as to location to the PubBG 00:14:59 ...and we can consider attending 00:15:15 Makoto-san: this is my idea, but I'm sure it will be supported by Japanese Information Processing Society 00:15:19 ...I will keep you informed 00:15:25 Daihei: And you will inform APL 00:15:35 ...and we can coordinate so everyone knows 00:15:54 Makoto-san: the budget is a bit a limited, so counting on some sponsorship from Japanese publishers 00:15:59 Daihei: you can bring up at APL 00:16:08 ...I can approach @ 00:16:14 Makoto-san: That's great 00:16:22 Daihei: anybody else on TPAC PBG meeting? 00:16:26 ...comment or questions? 00:16:37 Topic: EPUBCheck4.2 release candidate 00:16:44 Daihei: it has been posted 00:16:58 ...and we are soliciting publishing people, distributors, vendors, stores, to test the files 00:17:05 ...and report to EPUBCheck group 00:17:16 ...so that any kind of issues are adopted or fixed 00:17:19 ...things like that 00:17:25 ...anything to add, Liisa? 00:17:32 Liisa: no, I think you got it 00:17:40 Daihei: Any questions on EPUBCheck release candidate? 00:17:48 ...other thing I could tell you 00:17:59 ...this period will be available through mid-June 00:18:13 ...then EPUB3.2 testimonial 00:18:26 ...and EPUBCheck4.2 should be announced publicly as official versions 00:18:42 ...the announcement will take place some time during the 15 April to end of April 00:18:45 ...that is the plan 00:18:51 ...questions or comments? 00:19:02 Takami-san: EPUBCheck4.2 00:19:08 ...we have found a problem with our EPUB files 00:19:22 ...the EPUB specification 00:19:27 ...for example, how manga content 00:19:34 ...has complicated order of navigation documents 00:19:38 ...TOC order 00:19:46 ...disabled...complicated order of TOC 00:19:52 ...some manga content has paper book 00:20:02 ...some not @ order 00:20:06 s/TOC/POC 00:20:27 [Daihei to translate Takami-san] 00:22:17 Daihei: take advantage of this Japan friendly time 00:22:24 ...asking everyone to try to comment 00:22:43 ...Takami-san explained that there was a problem when he tested the Kadokawa manga files 00:22:51 ...some are popular and widely distributed in Japan 00:22:58 ...if my translation is not correct 00:23:00 ...let me know 00:23:26 ...My understanding there was some difference in specification and file was made upon files already created based upon practices exercized in japan 00:23:34 ...which is different from the specification 00:23:40 ...in areas like the table of contents 00:23:45 [TOC] 00:23:51 ...Did I explain this? 00:23:54 ...is that ok? 00:25:55 q+ 00:26:14 q+ 00:27:11 Daihei: I asked Takami-san if he already reported to EPUBCheck4.2 into Github 00:27:19 https://github.com/w3c/EPUBCheck/issues report here :) 00:27:23 ...he has not done it but he will report it so it will be reported for everybody 00:27:26 ...same kind of practice 00:27:35 ...might have been done into ebook publications in Japan already 00:27:47 ...and also given the audio reading systems in japan did not create difficulties 00:27:52 ...for manga EPUB files 00:27:55 ...no complaints 00:28:01 ...but now with the new EPUBChecker 00:28:07 ...which is loyal to EPUB3.2 00:28:16 ...error message; if not correct version being reported 00:28:28 ...this is an issue that Japanese publishing companies could face 00:28:33 ..and we have to find a solution 00:28:35 q? 00:28:42 ack Liisamk 00:28:54 Liisamk: We ran into a similar problem at PRH 00:28:59 ...and found a fairly simple way to solve 00:29:15 ...it does not matter it's not in same order as long as nav and manifest are in the same order 00:29:17 q- 00:29:22 ...we move the dedication of book to back of book 00:29:28 ...so page 4 in print is after page 256 00:29:35 ...it's a matter of making sure we were matching the order 00:29:37 ...that said 00:29:45 ...we are not immediately going to fix every back list book 00:29:52 ...we will fix as we redistribute them 00:29:56 Daihei: got it 00:30:01 q? 00:30:03 +q 00:30:09 ack Murata-san 00:30:16 Murata-san: I have a question for Liisa 00:30:27 ...when new store opens, will they find problems and come back to you? 00:30:34 Liisamk: sometimes, yes 00:30:36 q+ 00:30:55 ...part of new store negotiation is that there may be some issues; figure out how 'perfect' would happen 00:31:07 Murata-san: publishers are not willing to fix incorrect publications? 00:31:24 Liisamk: I have 80,000 and cannot fix everyone of them in time for EPUB4.2 to come up 00:31:43 Makoto-san: you have same problem with fixing errors 00:31:58 Liisamk: We will fix them as they come up with the new versions, and what version we last validated with 00:32:03 Makoto-san: thanks 00:32:16 Daihei: everybody has Liisa's comment and explanation 00:32:22 ...PRH is another case how she will deal 00:32:27 ...may help other publications 00:32:31 q? 00:32:35 ack Murata 00:32:53 @: Maybe manga...not easy to move the pages backward 00:33:11 Liisamk: I would not recommend moving pages, just the nav, @ and manifest 00:33:14 q? 00:33:40 Daihei: once you upload your situation into Github people will react to it and we will see how it goes 00:33:44 ack Wendy 00:34:01 Wendy: I would like to second Daihei to please upload that situation to Github 00:34:10 ...I know in my testing I have seen some new errors in the books 00:34:13 ...as a book seller 00:34:29 ...we probably won't reject books for not meeting EPUBCHeck4.2; there will be grace period 00:34:38 ...we see more warnings which we will look out for 00:34:50 ...content has not changed, but we are validating on a stricter standard 00:35:03 ...if it rendered to 4.2 it will likely do so after wards 00:35:05 ack Karen 00:36:13 Karen: We are ready to take testimonials 00:36:25 ...Please send testimonials to Ivan and me by email and cc the Publishing BG list 00:36:48 ...we will then upload them and they will rotate on the publishing landing page and also be on a single page aggregated 00:36:56 Daihei: any other questions on the EPUB4.2 release? 00:37:02 Topic: EPUBCheck Fundraising 00:37:13 ...So far two thirds of the targeted amount has been raised thanks to everyone 00:37:21 ...and maintenance release 00:37:27 ...for April 2019 00:37:39 ...funding next phase, clean-up documentation and media overlay support 00:37:48 ...this is scheduled to come out in Nov/Dec this year 00:38:01 ...and phase 3 EPUBCheck prototype based on new HTML integration 00:38:09 ...and phase 4 is maintenance in 2020 00:38:21 ...up through phase four we would like to secure the targeted amount 00:38:31 ...about $80K has been raised 00:38:43 ...remainder is about $50K 00:38:53 ...now that extra coordination task force 00:39:24 ...under Bill Kasdorf, Joshi-san and myself are reaching out to worldwide publishing organizations to say that we still need more fund raising 00:39:30 ...and appreciate your help to support EPUBCheck 00:39:34 ...and comments or questions? 00:39:43 ...Ok 00:39:54 ...move on to EPUB3.2 and EPUB4.2 announcement 00:40:13 ...Makoto-san would you please explain the outcome of the ISO meeting? 00:40:27 Makoto-san: Does everybody have a copy of the ISO IC report? 00:40:38 [can someone please drop in?] 00:40:55 ... I will send to archive and keep informed 00:41:03 ...to topics: EPUB Accessibility and DRM 00:41:05 ...first DRM 00:41:19 ...we are going to create an international standard based on an old IDPF work 00:41:25 ...Matt Garrish will work on this by June 00:41:35 ...and hopefully draft new standard after the Fukuoka meeting 00:41:44 ...and then we will have a draft international standard 00:41:54 ...if all goes well we hope to have standard by June of next year 00:42:10 ...issue is that EPUB Accessibilty designed by DAISY is based on embedded meta data 00:42:30 ...Italian publishers prefer detached, like ONYX rather than embedded in the EPUB publications 00:42:38 ...there is a difference of opinions and we will continue discussions 00:42:42 ...the second topic is DRM 00:43:02 ...we have changed the title from DRM to specification of DRM in digital publications 00:43:06 ...it now includes PDF 00:43:15 ...we were asked by W3C Team not to use EPUB DRM 00:43:21 ...hence we have this new tital 00:43:25 s/title 00:43:38 ...three parts: overview, LCP, device information 00:44:00 ...parts one and two will probably be finished if lucky by end of this year and be published as specifications 00:44:13 ...schedule for part three is not clear; clearer by September 00:44:19 ...in Fukuoka meeting 00:44:22 ...This is the general outline 00:44:25 ...Any questions? 00:44:28 q+ 00:44:28 Daihei: Thank you 00:44:31 ack Liisamk 00:44:41 Liisamk: I wanted to ask 00:44:57 ...is there any consideration for allowing for the metadata in the package and in the metadata in ONYX? 00:45:04 Makoto-san: yes 00:45:13 ...ONYX and embedded EPUB meta data is different 00:45:17 ...not clear 00:45:38 ...if every Accessible meta data can be captured by ONYX 00:45:43 ...@ is chair 00:45:56 ...still gap between ONYX and EPUB Accessibility meta data is not clear yet 00:45:59 @ is Francis Cave 00:46:04 ...this is all I can say now 00:46:14 Daihei: is that all right? 00:46:21 Liisa: yes, thank you for the clarification 00:46:32 Daihei: Makoto-san, anything else you would like to explain? 00:46:41 Makoto-san: If you are interested, please join 00:46:46 ...W3C members are welcome 00:46:56 Daihei: any other comments or questions, then we will move on 00:47:16 Topic: EPUBCheck Announcement Plan 00:47:27 Daihei: Karen explained about the testimonial process 00:47:36 ...and announcement for the final report 00:47:46 ...and launch call for consensus by mail within a week after that 00:48:03 ...announce the avaiability of EPUBCheck4.2 00:48:10 ...we will do launch communications widely 00:48:13 q+ 00:48:14 ...and do a PR job 00:48:21 When is the target date? 00:48:23 Daihei: Karen add anything? 00:48:33 ack Liisamk 00:48:47 Liisamk: I would note that it's really important to finish the EPUB3.2 testing 00:48:50 ...and report any issues 00:49:09 ...there is fine tuning as they review EPUBCheck and make sure the spec reflects minor changes being made 00:49:13 +q 00:49:17 ...so please do report your testing 00:49:24 Daihei: thank you, Liisa 00:49:28 ack Makoto-san 00:49:37 Makoto-san: what is the date? 00:49:51 Daihei: emails will be sent for consensus 00:50:03 ...by the end of April is the timing of the announcement 00:50:16 Makoto-san: so EPUBCheck has to be finalized by the end of this month 00:50:27 Daihei: discusison was to try testing and reporting by middle of April 00:50:30 ...to stay on this schedule 00:50:33 ...am I correct? 00:50:44 Liisamk: Yes, it sounds like there have been some reported issues 00:50:49 ...things have slowed down in the last week or so 00:50:58 ...and it's getting fairly stable 00:51:06 ...so do report before 15 April; very important 00:51:15 Daihei: any more comment or issues? 00:51:28 ...move on to future discussion topics based on the Google doc 00:51:35 Topic: Future Discussion Topics 00:51:42 ...and next Asia friendly call 00:51:54 ...a proposal 00:52:04 ...everyone was asking if you could include your comment into the Google doc 00:52:10 ...and I sent an email to you 00:52:17 ...would you kindly explain your idea again? 00:52:26 ...or put it up to the Google doc for comment 00:52:37 Makoto-san: I made a comment already 00:52:57 ...should we use the class attribute or the @ attribute or the EPUB attribute? Which of the three should we adopt 00:53:01 ...EPUB type 00:53:23 ...which attribute should we use 00:53:29 q+ 00:53:37 ...Tzviya mentioned that industry is migrating from EPUB type to @ attribute 00:53:42 ack Murata 00:53:53 ...Ruby for every character or different characters 00:53:58 ...roll, class, EPUB Type? 00:54:05 ...does this PubBG have a position 00:54:10 ...or what are other publishers doing right now? 00:54:16 Daihei: Thank you 00:54:18 ...any response? 00:54:22 ack Liisamk 00:54:32 Liisamk: We had a conversation at ebookcraft recently 00:54:47 ...about the fact that @ARIA rolls are worse than no ARIA rolls 00:54:59 ...my PRH team decided to go ARIA crazy 00:55:11 ...we are having all kinds of accessibilty issues because we went overboard 00:55:15 ...you made a really good point 00:55:24 ...we should figure out what best practices are on how to adopt this stuff 00:55:47 Makoto-san: I am interested in what you face in role attribute 00:55:53 Liisamk: I will write it up and send it to you 00:56:05 Daihei: you can see the comments on the Google doc 00:56:12 ...please make a comment in the Google doc 00:56:25 ...any other comments on future topics, or future agenda list? 00:56:32 ...there are several more added 00:56:43 @: It is not clear to me 00:56:50 Daihei: future discussion topics 00:57:03 ...and there are several additional ones included recently in the Google do 00:57:09 ...integrating with the web community 00:57:13 ...adoption of EPUB3.2 00:57:21 ...these items are listed in the Google doc 00:57:33 ...and I am asking if anyone wants to talk about the topics listed in the Google doc? 00:57:52 @: Submit testimonials; this is important for the public 00:57:58 ...which publishers will do that? 00:58:05 ...who is going to send testimonials? 00:58:17 Liisamk: PRH does not usually do testimonials about technology 00:58:42 ...but I am trying to get approval for a testimonial that we intend to adopt EPUB3.2 and use EPUBCHeck 4.2 00:59:21 Takami-san: I think we will submit a testimonial 00:59:32 Daihei: we will go through the process if we could 00:59:52 Takami-san: if I want support and we are biggest users of EPUB3.2 00:59:57 ...if not support, what is the point 01:00:04 Daihei: my plan is to approach to APL 01:00:11 ...EPBJ 01:00:16 ...and members 01:00:18 ...APS 01:00:27 ...to check with them if they could send out testimoinals 01:00:33 ...and the other industry organizations 01:00:50 ...and digital publishing companies and other organizations ask their support to provide testimonials 01:00:55 ...that is my job as one of the co-chairs 01:01:09 ...and I will contact Taiwanese organizations to consider sending in testimonials 01:01:20 ...and check with other publishers in Taiwan 01:01:24 ...I don't have contacts in China 01:01:33 ...but if I find, I will contact them and go through same process 01:01:41 Makoto-san: who can send testimnials? 01:01:47 q+ 01:03:04 ack Kaern 01:03:44 Daihei: Any other questions, comments? Let's call the meeting for the night 01:03:51 ... Thanks everyoen 01:03:55 Karen: we will prioritize Pub BG and W3C members but welcome community testimonials as well 01:04:12 Daihei: in future, please put q+ to ask questions in future 01:04:20 rrsagent, draft minutes 01:04:20 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/04/02-pbg-minutes.html Karen 01:05:09 Karen, thanks for scribing! 01:07:58 OZAWA has left #pbg 04:17:37 Zakim has left #pbg