16:07:01 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #json-ld
16:07:01 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/03/01-json-ld-irc
16:07:02 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
16:07:02 <ivan> Meeting: JSON-LD Working Group Telco
16:07:02 <ivan> Chair: azaroth, bigbluehat
16:07:02 <ivan> Date: 2019-03-01
16:07:02 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-json-ld-wg/2019Feb/0032.html
16:07:02 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2019-03-01: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-json-ld-wg/2019Feb/0032.html
16:08:20 <simonstey> simonstey has joined #json-ld
16:17:48 <azaroth> azaroth has joined #json-ld
16:54:57 <ajs6f> ajs6f has joined #json-ld
16:58:40 <gkellogg> present+
16:58:53 <workergnome> workergnome has joined #json-ld
16:59:26 <azaroth> present+
16:59:48 <simonstey> present+
16:59:50 <dlongley> present+
17:00:05 <workergnome> present+
17:01:36 <jeff_mixter> jeff_mixter has joined #json-ld
17:01:59 <jeff_mixter> present+
17:02:49 <bigbluehat> Zakim, pick a victim
17:02:49 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose jeff_mixter
17:03:10 <pchampin> pchampin has joined #json-ld
17:03:15 <azaroth> scribenick: jeff_mixter
17:03:28 <azaroth> TOPIC: minutes of last week
17:03:45 <azaroth> PROPOSAL: Approve minutes of last call: https://www.w3.org/2018/json-ld-wg/Meetings/Minutes/2019/2019-02-22-json-ld
17:03:47 <bigbluehat> +1
17:03:48 <azaroth> +1
17:03:50 <dlongley> +1
17:03:50 <simonstey> +1
17:03:53 <gkellogg> +1
17:03:57 <jeff_mixter> +0
17:04:09 <azaroth> RESOLVED: Approve minutes of last call: https://www.w3.org/2018/json-ld-wg/Meetings/Minutes/2019/2019-02-22-json-ld
17:04:18 <azaroth> TOPIC: Announcements
17:04:33 <ajs6f>  /me still omw almost there
17:04:49 <pchampin> +present
17:05:12 <jeff_mixter> azaroth: feature freeze is coming up - you should play around with framing if you have not just to test assumptions and use cases
17:05:19 <timCole> timCole has joined #json-ld
17:05:19 <ivan> present+
17:05:20 <hsolbrig> hsolbrig has joined #json-ld
17:05:26 <hsolbrig> present+
17:05:41 <ivan> q+
17:05:46 <timCole> present Tim Cole
17:05:47 <jeff_mixter> azaroth: questions about the feature freeze?
17:05:47 <azaroth> ack ivan
17:05:54 <timCole> present+ Tim Cole
17:06:01 <pchampin> present+
17:06:51 <azaroth> q?
17:06:52 <jeff_mixter> ivan: Web of Things have raised some issues and will be reaching out to us
17:07:08 <bigbluehat> q+
17:07:11 <azaroth> ack bigbluehat
17:07:47 <jeff_mixter> bigbluehat: for the best practices document - should we provide a dedicated repo for it so we can add dedicated tasks to it
17:07:58 <ivan> q+
17:08:06 <ivan> q-
17:08:33 <jeff_mixter> ivan: so I will create a new repo
17:08:36 <bigbluehat> https://json-ld.org/spec/latest/json-ld-api-best-practices/
17:08:53 <dlehn> present+
17:08:54 <ivan> action: ivan to set up a new repo for the best practices
17:09:00 <jeff_mixter> gkellogg: we need to make sure things are hooked  together correctly
17:09:06 <bigbluehat> how about? https://json-ld.org/primer/latest/
17:09:08 <jeff_mixter> ivan: any preference for the name of the repo
17:09:11 <bigbluehat> q+
17:09:15 <azaroth> ack bigbluehat
17:09:34 <jeff_mixter> bigbluehat: what about the primer document - which is more important to work on
17:09:52 <jeff_mixter> ivan: the best practices is more important right now
17:10:19 <azaroth> q?
17:10:24 <hober> hober has joined #json-ld
17:11:21 <jeff_mixter> gkellogg: could we chat about the require all topic?
17:11:41 <azaroth> https://github.com/w3c/json-ld-framing/issues/40
17:12:16 <jeff_mixter> ... we added require all flag that does not work the way people expect. People expected it to literally mean 'require all' not a combination of if/or
17:12:27 <ivan> Topic: requireAll does not require @type and should
17:12:58 <ivan> guest+ hober
17:13:06 <bigbluehat> present+
17:13:45 <jeff_mixter> ivan: can we close the issue
17:14:18 <jeff_mixter> gkellogg: not close but we agree to move to approve it
17:15:09 <azaroth> PROPOSAL:  IF requireAll is present, then all keys in the frame are used to determine a match, including @type and @id
17:15:13 <jeff_mixter> gkellogg: seems logical to be if require all is present then all keys in the frame are used to determine that
17:15:13 <gkellogg> +1
17:15:14 <dlongley> +1
17:15:16 <azaroth> +1
17:15:17 <bigbluehat> +1
17:15:17 <jeff_mixter> +1
17:15:17 <ivan> +1
17:15:17 <timCole> +1
17:15:23 <hsolbrig> +1
17:15:31 <simonstey> +1
17:15:33 <workergnome> +1
17:15:33 <dlehn> +1
17:15:44 <azaroth> RESOLVED:  If requireAll is present, then all keys in the frame are used to determine a match, including `@type` and `@id`
17:16:27 <ivan> Topic: TAG discussion
17:18:11 <jeff_mixter> .me my audio cut out for a minute
17:18:22 <bigbluehat> s/.me my audio cut out for a minute//
17:18:33 <hober> https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/312
17:19:11 <bigbluehat> q+ to explain the WG's status wrt to <base>
17:20:19 <jeff_mixter> hober: the issues are account for in the 2 git issues. we do not want to encourage people to do clever things without using an HTML parser
17:20:39 <azaroth> ack bigbluehat
17:20:39 <Zakim> bigbluehat, you wanted to explain the WG's status wrt to <base>
17:21:34 <jeff_mixter> bigbluehat: the 2 issues are that the <base> tag being processed by none-html parsers is a pain and problematic
17:22:07 <gkellogg> q+ to ask about Not just HTML parser, but state of DOM when expanded
17:22:32 <bigbluehat> https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/312#issuecomment-434689623
17:23:07 <gkellogg> q-
17:23:10 <jeff_mixter> ... if you are parsing JSON-ld in the context of HTML you would have to resolve it against the base. What we ran into last week was that this interaction with the DOM is that the state can change. Could break with if you are working with a single page web app
17:23:42 <jeff_mixter> ... people parsing JSON-ld out of HTML you need to be thinking about the potential for stuff changing
17:25:44 <jeff_mixter> hober: the base tag effects a lot of html issues but it is a place where we want consistancy
17:25:52 <ivan> q+
17:26:03 <bigbluehat> q+
17:26:41 <jeff_mixter> ... it is rare for people to rely on this part of the html platform - I have not seen base used in a recent html created - based on not hearing complaints about it.
17:27:01 <jeff_mixter> ... most people will be using regular expressions to find stuff in HTML
17:27:15 <azaroth> ack ivan
17:27:18 <jeff_mixter> ... just noting the potential pitfalls is really the best you can do
17:27:36 <jeff_mixter> ivan: do you know spec wise how css deals with his?
17:28:09 <azaroth> ack bigbluehat
17:28:11 <jeff_mixter> hober: I will dig up and share the link
17:28:43 <jeff_mixter> bigbluehat: do you have an info on the web components stuff - like json modules or html modules?
17:29:06 <jeff_mixter> ... there was a idea that json-ld could be more integrated with web components
17:30:53 <jeff_mixter> hober: the idea of html modules is a definition for how to parse data and how to determine dependencies
17:31:16 <jeff_mixter> ... we tried this in the past but it did not go far. But it is a huge problem
17:31:39 <jeff_mixter> ... for HTML modules we can rely on the work of JSON modules work
17:31:53 <dlongley> s/JSON/JavaScript
17:31:59 <ivan> guest+ travisleithead
17:33:04 <jeff_mixter> ... all of the scripts in the module are evaluated as modules. all of these module will be evaluated with relation to the base url
17:34:17 <jeff_mixter> azaroth: last week on a call we discussed this topic and noted that we should be consistant with the current specs and usage. and at this point we would be inconsistant.
17:34:43 <bigbluehat> q+ travisleithead
17:35:24 <jeff_mixter> ... if the base tag changes then processing the json-ld would produce inconsistent URIs. Whenever the json-ld is processed make sure that you are aware of this
17:35:44 <jeff_mixter> travisleithead: that seems about right and how other things work
17:35:55 <bigbluehat> q+ to ask more about processing json-ld modules
17:36:06 <azaroth> ack travisleithead
17:37:11 <jeff_mixter> ... in cases where a thing is being imported we are leaning toward the master importer's state taking precedence - this is a security issue
17:37:42 <jeff_mixter> ... doc type is an example of there is can happen
17:37:46 <azaroth> ack bigbluehat
17:37:46 <Zakim> bigbluehat, you wanted to ask more about processing json-ld modules
17:37:59 <bigbluehat> https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/312#issuecomment-434689623
17:38:37 <jeff_mixter> bigbluehat: around processsing json-ld - is the json being parsed on import based on the response of the server?
17:38:50 <azaroth> Notably from Hadley: Now that we have JavaScript modules... it would be useful to define the static export of a JSON-LD processor, for use as a module. @travisleithead has been working on an HTML modules proposal.
17:39:26 <jeff_mixter> travisleithead: we are still early in the work - but at this point we are parsing and processing the data that is imported and we are scanning for additional modules
17:39:38 <bigbluehat> and: "We should make it possible to identify the module typing of all of our resource types: imaging, types, scripts, CSS, etc. -- and it would be ideal to include JSON-LD in that list, and treat it like we treat all of our other resources. We should bring this in from the cold; it's too important not to use with the rest of the Web."
17:39:58 <hober> q+ hober
17:40:02 <jeff_mixter> ... there is certainly the opportunity to do that for json-ld
17:40:36 <azaroth> ack hober
17:40:44 <jeff_mixter> ... not sure what would be returned when you process a json-ld doc
17:40:59 <jeff_mixter> hober: there will be a new media type for html modules
17:41:39 <azaroth> q+ to ask about timing
17:41:48 <azaroth> ack azaorht
17:41:52 <azaroth> ack azaroth
17:41:52 <Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to ask about timing
17:42:01 <gkellogg> q+
17:42:06 <jeff_mixter> ... you will need to know the difference and how to process them accordingly
17:43:08 <hober> re: how does CSS define its interaction with <base>, see §4.4.1 Relative URLs of CSS Values Level 4: https://drafts.csswg.org/css-values-4/#relative-urls
17:43:13 <jeff_mixter> azaroth: we are looking to be feature frozen by the end of the month. The charter end in May or June of 2020. Are HTML module a thing that will be ready by then? If so we could take them into consideration but if not we could make some sort of note/reference
17:43:14 <hober> "Style sheets embedded within a document have the base URL associated with their container."
17:43:40 <ivan> q+
17:44:02 <hober> I think it would make sense for CSS to also have a non-normative "there be dragons here" note and will file an issue on CSS Values to reflect that.
17:44:23 <jeff_mixter> travisleithead: the idea for html modules has been kicking around for a few years but it is still very early. We want to get some sort of code out to test this year. Closing issues etc. would then be 6 moths to a year after that
17:44:57 <jeff_mixter> ... I would suggest not taking the risk of drawing too heavily from the work right now
17:44:59 <azaroth> ack gkellogg
17:45:15 <jeff_mixter> ... but you could see how it could be used in the future
17:45:39 <jeff_mixter> gkellogg: the use case for json-ld is that is can be used like json so it seems ot make sense to follow/process json-ld the same way
17:46:13 <azaroth> q?
17:46:18 <jeff_mixter> ... RDF could be another way to look at it
17:46:20 <azaroth> ack ivan
17:47:24 <azaroth> q?
17:47:24 <gkellogg> q+ to ask about CSS selectors in JSON-LD
17:47:41 <hober> https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/blob/gh-pages/proposals/html-modules-explainer.md
17:47:47 <azaroth> ack gkellogg
17:47:47 <Zakim> gkellogg, you wanted to ask about CSS selectors in JSON-LD
17:48:19 <jeff_mixter> gkellogg: what is the interaction between CSS selectors and JSON-ld?
17:48:34 <azaroth> Most recently: https://twitter.com/jdevalk/status/1100783974002147328
17:48:42 <bigbluehat> q+ to point out https://schema.org/cssSelector
17:48:56 <azaroth> ack bigbluehat
17:48:56 <Zakim> bigbluehat, you wanted to point out https://schema.org/cssSelector
17:49:07 <jeff_mixter> travisleithead : I do no think that is something we have talk about
17:49:37 <jeff_mixter> bigbluehat: schema.org has added a cssSelector property
17:50:44 <azaroth> q?
17:51:14 <workergnome> +q
17:51:19 <azaroth> ack workergnome
17:51:54 <jeff_mixter> workergnome: do we assume that if we have an in-memory json-ld doc and we amend the base does the in-memory doc get reprocessed?
17:52:21 <bigbluehat> q+
17:52:23 <jeff_mixter> travisleithead: it would require some special type of hook. In general no it would not get reprocessed
17:52:25 <azaroth> ack bigbluehat
17:52:25 <dlongley> i'd say no, you'd have to do it explicitly (agree with Travis)
17:53:14 <jeff_mixter> bigbluehat: you get what you get when you process it and then it become business logic to figure out what to do in the future
17:53:29 <jeff_mixter> workergnome: is this the same behavior as other objects that are updated with base?
17:53:40 <jeff_mixter> workergnome: does css get restyled if the base changes?
17:54:01 <jeff_mixter> azaroth: some things do but some do not - images do not but events bound to the dom do I think
17:55:00 <jeff_mixter> hober: style recalc happens for a variety of reasons - we do not specify when a recalc should occur - the timing is left to implementations
17:55:50 <azaroth> ack bigbluehat
17:56:00 <ivan> q+
17:56:05 <azaroth> ack ivan
17:56:34 <jeff_mixter> ivan: so this means we do have an action to note about the dragons being around
17:56:45 <jeff_mixter> hober: also need a non-normative note about this being a mess
17:58:08 <jeff_mixter> hober: I will share the css note so we are consistent across the board
17:58:33 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:58:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/03/01-json-ld-minutes.html ivan