23:59:16 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pbg
23:59:16 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/02/19-pbg-irc
00:00:39 <Daihei> Daihei has joined #pbg
00:01:24 <JKamata> present+
00:01:39 <Karen> present+ Karen
00:02:01 <liisamk> liisamk has joined #pbg
00:03:15 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #pbg
00:04:08 <liisamk> Rrsagent, make logs public
00:04:10 <Karen> Has anyone started Go-to-Meeting?
00:04:21 <Karen> I cannot seem to launch it
00:04:28 <liisamk> yes, we are on GTM
00:05:01 <Karen> hmm
00:06:08 <liisamk> liisamk scribenick
00:06:23 <MURATA> Daihei-san is introducing himself as a co-chair.
00:06:36 <Leslie> Leslie has joined #PBG
00:07:04 <liisamk> Dahei: introductions and agenda
00:07:23 <MURATA> The previous meeting is basically for Europe and US.
00:07:33 <MURATA> The minutes are available.
00:08:02 <MURATA> Today's agenda is the same as in the previous  meeting.
00:08:18 <MURATA> But for Asian people.
00:09:14 <liisamk> q+
00:09:29 <Karen> scribenick: Karen
00:09:46 <Karen> Murata: are decisions taken on each of the two calls?
00:10:12 <Karen> Daihei: yes, essentially decisions can be taken twice
00:10:16 <Karen> ack Liisamk
00:10:28 <MURATA> +1
00:10:31 <Karen> Liisamk: I would like to add that we should come up with a process to make decisions via email
00:10:36 <Leslie> +1
00:10:37 <Karen> ...and we can discuss things at these meetings
00:10:39 <JKamata> +1
00:10:46 <Karen> Daihei: let's go that way
00:10:59 <Karen> Topic: Meeting times going forward
00:11:15 <MURATA> Every decision will be done by e-mail rather than in meetings.  In meetings, we discuss but will not make decisions.
00:11:24 <Karen> ...at the 12 Feb meeting it was discussed to have European and US friendly meeting and one Asian friendly meeting
00:11:38 <Karen> ...for European and for Japan/Asia, only once in the month is not frequent enough
00:11:46 <Karen> ...so there was talk that there should be four meetings in a month
00:11:57 <Karen> ...then the co-chairs discussed and we reproposed how it goes
00:12:16 <Karen> ...once for US/Europe friendly time zone, and the other one in two weeks for US and Japan/Asia friendly time zone
00:12:21 <Karen> ...so twice in a month
00:12:28 <Karen> ...and see how it goes and then come back and review it
00:12:34 <MURATA> Good to me.
00:12:36 <Karen> ...we would like to confirm if that is ok with everybody
00:12:46 <Karen> ...any queues or questions?
00:12:47 <JKamata> +1
00:12:47 <MURATA> Let' see what happens.
00:12:50 <Karen> ...seems like everyone is ok
00:12:57 <Karen> ...then I will move on to the next topic
00:13:03 <Karen> Topic: ISO Work
00:13:13 <Karen> Daihei: this is something Murata-san talked about it
00:13:19 <Karen> ...he was clearly saying
00:13:24 <Karen> ...talked about EPUB3.1
00:13:26 <Karen> ...new work item
00:13:30 <Karen> ...LCP for EPUB
00:13:36 <Karen> ...@ meeting of ISO
00:13:38 <Karen> ...end of March
00:13:43 <Karen> ...and end of May in @
00:13:49 <Karen> ...and we can talk about ISO work in September
00:14:00 <Karen> ...pre-TPAC there will be an ISO conference in Fukuoka
00:14:02 <liisamk> March meeting in Milano
00:14:07 <Karen> ...we can use these opportunities to reflect the situation
00:14:14 <Karen> ...Liisa would you like to fill me in?
00:14:19 <Karen> Liisamk: I think you covered it
00:14:24 <Karen> s/@/Milano
00:14:32 <Karen> Daihei: any questions?
00:14:33 <Karen> ...ok
00:14:42 <Karen> Topic: Event calendar for publishing events
00:14:51 <Karen> Daihei: Liisa may touch upon this
00:14:56 <Karen> ...there was a meeting held in NYC
00:15:08 <Karen> ...with members of PubWG, PubG and the Advisory Board (AB)
00:15:22 <Karen> ...there was some positive feedback and suggested we could have more regional meetings
00:15:30 <Karen> ...Proposal made to have an event calendar of publishing events
00:15:37 <Karen> ...people will include who will attend
00:15:50 <Karen> ...and by seeing that calendar, people can communicate and help to organize a regional meeting
00:15:57 <Karen> ...thanks to Liisa, she will create this calendar
00:15:59 <Karen> Liisa: yes
00:16:13 <Karen> ...we will keep all the events, conferences that people brought up; anything that touches on the work we do
00:16:16 <Karen> ...to coordinate more
00:16:22 <Karen> ...and to look at budgeting for next year
00:16:34 <Karen> Daihei: does anyone have any questions in this regard?
00:16:37 <Karen> ...Move along
00:16:45 <Karen> Topic: EPUB3.2 Next Steps
00:16:54 <Karen> Daihei: getting support and buy-in
00:17:12 <Karen> ...EPUB3.2 to rec track was considered
00:17:22 <Karen> ...schedule in March to make EPUB3 in public
00:17:26 <Karen> ...based on final CG report
00:17:29 <Karen> ...around the same time
00:17:39 <Karen> ...so the global industry can immediately can adopt EPUB3.2
00:17:43 <Karen> ...that was the discussion
00:17:49 <Karen> ...Liisa, anything you want to offer?
00:17:54 <Karen> Liisa: two steps
00:18:05 <Karen> ...first, we have the new spec out and we have the validation out and those happen together
00:18:13 <Karen> ...then the BG would do more work to get more public buy-in
00:18:19 <Karen> ...to support how to announce it, publicize it
00:18:26 <Karen> ...how we make sure that everyone is moving toward adoption
00:18:31 <Karen> ...and that would follow some time in April
00:18:36 <Karen> Daihei: any questions?
00:18:39 <Karen> ...or thoughts?
00:18:43 <MURATA> +q
00:18:51 <Karen> ack Murata
00:18:59 <Karen> Murata: W3C solicits testimonials from W3C members
00:19:20 <Karen> ...I know that 3.2 is not a Recommendation, but is it possible to accept testimonials to encourage adoption of 3.2
00:19:28 <Karen> Daihei: I don't think we have discussed this
00:19:29 <Karen> q+
00:19:37 <Karen> ack Karen
00:20:46 <Karen> Action: Karen to discuss possibility of testimonial page for EPUB3.2 adoption
00:20:56 <Karen> Daihei: any other comments?
00:21:20 <Karen> Topic: Category of Reports and Discussions; update on AB meeting, update on local meet-ups
00:21:29 <Karen> Daihei: Liisa, can you please fill us in
00:21:39 <Karen> Liisa: The AB meeting we [Publishing BG/WG] had in New York
00:21:51 <Karen> ...was an interesting meet-up of the AB that was here [NY] for their F2F meeting
00:22:06 <Karen> ...they met with a small group of publishers and the chairs of several of our publishing committees
00:22:10 <Karen> ...CG, BG, WG
00:22:20 <Karen> ...we had presentations on history, state of EPUB; how some of us got into this work
00:22:24 <Karen> ...progress of groups
00:22:31 <Karen> ...AB gave presentations on Packaging and file formats
00:22:35 <Karen> ...and there was open dialogue
00:22:41 <Karen> ...a really great moment of people to ask questions
00:22:57 <Karen> ...AB asked a lot of questions of the publishers; they asked us about DRM and why it's touchy
00:23:05 <Karen> ...a really good open discussion, good energy
00:23:13 <Karen> ...what the broader community can do, how we can work together
00:23:26 <Karen> ...There was a presentation from AB about the process of making standards
00:23:40 <Karen> ...understanding that standards take a long time to build
00:23:52 <Karen> ...and publishing community tends to build standards after we identify a problem
00:23:57 <Karen> ...there was good energy in a small group
00:24:16 <Karen> ...A lot of us walked away with perspective that a lot could be done and discussed in these small group formats
00:24:31 <Karen> ...and we thought we could talk with Audio publishers and retailers who are not otherwise involved
00:24:43 <Karen> ...in this work and to understand it is happening and have information about it
00:24:54 <Karen> ...and Daihei, discussion around TPAC for Japanese publishers
00:25:18 <Karen> Daihei: I explained that APL and W3C Keio is going to organize a publishing summit kind of meeting around the TPAC in Fukuoka in September
00:25:23 <Karen> ...We still need to figure out dates
00:25:26 <Karen> ...this was discussed at APL
00:25:32 <Karen> ...and with W3C Keio
00:25:39 <Karen> ...they have already agreed to take a lead on this
00:25:43 <Karen> ...the question about the timing is
00:25:54 <Karen> ...one thing is during the TPAC people are claiming there are other meetings they need to attend
00:26:07 <Karen> ...at the San Francisco summit, some people could not attend the other WG meetings
00:26:19 <Karen> ...so one idea is not to have the Summit kind, perhaps before or after Fukuoka
00:26:31 <Karen> ...before TPAC there is an ISO meeting also in Fukuoka also the week before TPAC
00:26:48 <MURATA> +q
00:26:48 <Karen> ...if people are amenable, perhaps we organize a one-day event on Sunday prior to the TPAC in Fukuoka
00:26:52 <Karen> ...that is one thing discussed
00:27:03 <Karen> ...and maybe holding it during TPAC in Fukuoka
00:27:06 <Karen> ack Murata
00:27:15 <Karen> Murata: The ISO meeting is expected to end on the 13th
00:27:25 <Karen> ...on the 14-15th
00:27:32 <Karen> ...of September, W3C people would have nothing to do
00:27:41 <Karen> ...it might be good idea to have meeting on 14-15
00:27:56 <Karen> ...dates are 9th to 15th
00:28:05 <Karen> ...basically EPUB related meetings would be on 12th and 13th
00:28:20 <Karen> ...so that is why the 14th and 15th would be a great opportunity for the AB type meeting
00:28:27 <Karen> Daihei: one idea is to do it on the 15th
00:28:40 <Karen> ...so 14th 15th we could bring back to other people
00:28:56 <Karen> ...mainly APL and W3C Keio to discuss further and then come back to the Publishing BG for further discussion
00:29:10 <Karen> Murata: It might be impossible to use other commercial meetings rooms
00:29:19 <Karen> Daihei: Is ISO meeting going to be held at @
00:29:25 <Karen> Murata: at @ university
00:29:53 <Karen> Daihei: any other questions about TPAC in Fukuoka and possibility to hold a Publishing meeting
00:30:15 <JKamata> s/@/Kyushu
00:30:16 <Karen> ...my understanding is prior to this TPAC Fukuoka opportunity there is going to be a digital publishing conference in June in Paris
00:30:25 <Karen> ...that is where people could get together to have another regional meeting
00:30:31 <Karen> ...that is another opportunity I can suggest as well
00:30:37 <Karen> ...getting back to calendar
00:30:42 <MURATA> Any URL for the EDRLab event?
00:30:50 <Karen> ...purpose is to share these kinds of meeting opportunities face to face
00:30:56 <Karen> ...and publishing industry related
00:31:18 <Karen> ...please positively take participate in adding information to the calendar and to coordinate meetings wherever possible
00:31:30 <liisamk> https://www.edrlab.org/events/dpub-summit-2019/
00:31:33 <Karen> @: Do we have a URL for the EDRLab event?
00:31:38 <Karen> Liisa: just put it in
00:31:52 <Karen> Daihei: I think some people from APL are planning to attend this
00:32:03 <Karen> ...Yoshii-san; and possibly Florian; I will, too
00:32:15 <Karen> ...other questions or information
00:32:32 <Karen> Liisa: are there other topics to be discussed in smaller groups
00:32:44 <Karen> ...things that are particular to types of publishing or parts of the world
00:33:01 <Daihei> q+
00:33:07 <Karen> ack Daihei
00:33:36 <Karen> Daihei: next topic on Popped up content
00:33:41 <Karen> Topic: Popped Up Content
00:33:47 <Karen> ...this is good item to discuss
00:34:02 <Karen> ...Liisa, could you fill in about Popped Up Content issue?
00:34:13 <Karen> Liisamk: Popped Up Content, and the business requirements around it
00:34:28 <Karen> ...is something we can address without addressing the underlying technology from a reading systems perspective
00:34:43 <Karen> ...what kind of content needs to be enlarged, what kind of control do you as a publisher want to tell the reading systems
00:34:51 <Karen> ...Sometimes footnotes are popped up
00:35:00 <Karen> ...that is not done in a way that publishers have control
00:35:05 <Karen> ...you may put in an EPUB type
00:35:14 <Karen> ...but reading systems may put a UI around it
00:35:28 <Karen> ...we would like publishers to have more control; to know where it starts and stops
00:35:35 <Karen> ...have it gracefully appear and be degraded
00:35:47 <Karen> ...not all reading systems support imaging and formatting inside of popups
00:36:01 <Karen> ...a lot of books like children's picture books use pop-ups
00:36:10 <Karen> ...from bus perspective, you want control of sizing of text, that box
00:36:16 <Karen> ...put a background in it so it is readable
00:36:24 <Karen> ...even when laid over some art
00:36:34 <Karen> ...then extrapolate over the visual narratives
00:36:44 <Karen> ...for visual novels, manga, or other places to enlarge something
00:36:51 <Karen> ...if we could talk about what kinds of control we want
00:36:58 <Karen> ...then we could one, inform the reading systems
00:37:08 <Karen> ...and two, see if we can apply technology
00:37:18 <Karen> ...so that the stuff pops up when you want it to
00:37:30 <Karen> ...sometimes there are circular links....creates a bad reading experience
00:37:31 <MURATA> +q
00:37:36 <Karen> Daihei: thank you Liisa
00:37:39 <Karen> ack Murata
00:37:45 <Karen> Murata: this is a very interesting opportunity
00:37:54 <Karen> ...first, is this going to be an activity in PubBG or WG?
00:38:06 <liisamk> q+
00:38:06 <Karen> ...do we do requirements first, or do we investigate solutions at the same time?
00:38:11 <Karen> Daihei: anybody?
00:38:15 <Karen> ack Liisamk
00:38:38 <Karen> Liisamk: I think in the BG, what we want to is to talk about the requirements and expectations and then document them
00:38:58 <Karen> ...and with WG we talk about experiences in the marketplace and see if there is tech we have access to or we can build and go from there
00:39:08 <Karen> Daihei: so first stage is requirements in the PubBG
00:39:15 <Karen> Liisamk: yes, the business needs around this
00:39:40 <Karen> Daihei: the PubBG we would want to confirm and quantify the business needs and then relate to the other working group to have this discussion on the technology side of it
00:40:06 <Karen> ...anybody wants to express their thoughts, take advantage of me being in the Japanese friendly time
00:40:15 <Karen> ...Anybody wants to say something in Japanese?
00:40:23 <Karen> ...I will try to then translate into English?
00:40:38 <Karen> ...Feel free to that here now
00:40:48 <Karen> ...Ok, next item is Popped Up Content
00:41:00 <liisamk> q+
00:41:02 <Karen> ...Everybody thinks it's a good idea to explore in the PubBG
00:41:05 <Karen> ack Liisamk
00:41:12 <Karen> Liisamk: I think the next step to think about
00:41:39 <Karen> ...think about whether the things you want to have pop up are not working well; whether you have control and if it's satisfying your needs and your authors'
00:41:51 <Karen> ...order, speed, explore where the commonalities are
00:42:06 <Karen> ...enough resolution, things popping beyond the border of the pages; those kinds of issues
00:42:10 <Karen> Daihei: any thoughts?
00:42:29 <Karen> ...shall we bring what Liisa explained to the next PubBG meeting to confirm
00:42:34 <MURATA> +q
00:42:51 <Karen> ...from POV from US, Europe and other attendance to explore what is working for pop up content and what is missing
00:42:53 <Karen> ...shall we?
00:42:55 <Karen> ack Murata
00:43:16 <Karen> Murata: I thought we would make a decision by email. So you might want to make an email proposal for the next meeting
00:43:21 <Karen> ...and then we take a decision by email
00:43:24 <Karen> Liisamk: yes
00:43:39 <Karen> Daihei: shall we come up with a proposal in email to be shared among the other PubBG members?
00:43:44 <Karen> Murata: that would be great
00:43:49 <Karen> Liisamk: that would be good
00:43:53 <Karen> Daihei: Great!
00:44:01 <Karen> ...any other thoughts on this issue or discussion?
00:44:07 <Karen> ...or overall questions and comment time?
00:44:22 <Karen> Murata: My brain works much better now than at midnight
00:44:25 <JKamata> +1
00:44:30 <Karen> Liisamk: that's great
00:44:44 <Karen> Daihei: so this Asia friendly time works
00:44:58 <Karen> ...On top of Japan we should extend invitation to Korea, China and elsewhere to participate
00:45:06 <Karen> ...For India, this is not a friendly time
00:45:14 <Karen> ...they said they will attend the European friendly time
00:45:19 <Karen> ...That is @
00:45:46 <Karen> ...Yesterday I extended my invitation to the Japanese publishing people, including organizations such as APL, EDPJA, others
00:46:00 <Karen> ...and with Yoshii-san's help, I reached out to the publishing companies individually
00:46:05 <Karen> ...and those who have become W3C members
00:46:11 <Karen> ...all the other Japanese related people
00:46:15 <Karen> ...having some seat for PubBG
00:46:20 <Karen> ...know about this meeting happening
00:46:26 <Karen> ...and the Asia/Japan friendly time
00:46:42 <Karen> ...I will make sure to extend this kind of solicitation to people in Japan, and next time for the other Asian countries
00:46:45 <Karen> Murata: Taiwan
00:47:02 <Karen> Daihei: any other comments or questions?
00:47:15 <Karen> ...ok, Liisa, how are we doing as first-time chair?
00:47:17 <Karen> +1
00:47:20 <MURATA> +1
00:47:21 <Karen> Liisamk: Doing great
00:47:33 <Karen> Daihei: I would like to talk about last item
00:47:39 <Karen> ...next steps and action items
00:47:44 <Karen> Topic: Next Steps and Action Items
00:47:52 <Karen> ...my understanding is that for important items discussed
00:47:56 <Karen> ...for each PubBG meeting
00:48:04 <Karen> ...regardless of European or Japan/Asia friendly time
00:48:07 <Karen> ...we will share
00:48:16 <Karen> ...the item and information to be decided in PubBG by email
00:48:25 <Karen> ...that is the case with the Pop Up discussion
00:48:28 <Karen> ...Number two
00:48:32 <Karen> ...Murata-san's comment
00:48:36 <Karen> ...EPUB3.2
00:48:38 <Karen> ...announcement
00:48:45 <Karen> ...W3C's testimonials for EPUB3.2
00:48:52 <Karen> ...that is something Karen will discuss and come back to us
00:49:04 <Karen> ....as for regional events
00:49:13 <Karen> ...TPAC Fukuoka, Makoto-san presented
00:49:36 <Karen> ...potential publishing meeting to be held Saturday/Sunday 14-15 Sept connected to the ISO meeting in the prior week and before TPAC
00:49:57 <Karen> Action: Daihei to bring Japan Publishing event meeting to APL for further discussion
00:50:13 <Karen> ...lastly, the Pop Up content, we will come up with a separate email to propose the Pop Up content issue
00:50:26 <MURATA> Great!
00:50:28 <Karen> ...anything I missed
00:50:32 <Karen> q+
00:50:33 <JKamata> Great!
00:50:39 <Karen> ack Karen
00:51:05 <Karen> Action: PubBG Co-Chairs to draft email on Pop Up Content
00:51:13 <Karen> Daihei: no other queues
00:51:17 <Karen> ...we still have ten minutes
00:51:33 <Karen> ...anybody wants to say anything, please do
00:51:43 <Karen> @: do we know name of anonymous callers?
00:51:56 <Karen> Daihei: when we issue minutes, they will be listed
00:52:22 <Karen> Murata: be good if they would state their names now
00:52:26 <Karen> ...or email us
00:52:43 <Karen> Daihei: also, you could email us as well
00:52:51 <Karen> ...on the Publishing BG email list
00:52:56 <Karen> ...I think we are good to go
00:53:01 <Karen> ...Thank you everybody for this opportunity
00:53:07 <Karen> ...We are looking forward to the next call
00:53:15 <Karen> [adjourned]
00:53:18 <Karen> ...thank you
00:53:21 <Karen> rrsagent, draft minutes
00:53:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/19-pbg-minutes.html Karen
03:52:00 <Karen> Karen has joined #pbg