IRC log of tt on 2019-02-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:02:51 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #tt
16:02:51 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/02/14-tt-irc
16:02:53 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:02:53 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #tt
16:02:55 [trackbot]
Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
16:02:55 [trackbot]
Date: 14 February 2019
16:02:59 [nigel]
Log: https://www.w3.org/2019/02/14-tt-irc
16:03:10 [nigel]
Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/18
16:03:27 [nigel]
Present+ Glenn, Nigel, Philippe
16:03:30 [nigel]
scribe: nigel
16:03:33 [nigel]
Chair: Nigel
16:03:50 [nigel]
Regrets: Thierry, Cyril, Pierre
16:04:08 [mike]
mike has joined #tt
16:05:08 [nigel]
Present+ Mike
16:06:08 [nigel]
Present+ Gary
16:06:50 [nigel]
Topic: This meeting
16:07:32 [nigel]
Nigel: Today we have profile registry, Future Reqs status, TTML in RTP IETF submission,
16:07:43 [nigel]
.. WebVTT implementation report, and I have no AOB yet.
16:07:52 [nigel]
.. Anything else to raise or specific points to mention?
16:08:04 [nigel]
Regrets+ Andreas
16:08:30 [nigel]
group: [no AOB]
16:08:44 [nigel]
Topic: TTML Profile Registry
16:09:20 [nigel]
Nigel: No issues marked for the agenda, 2 pulls open. Anything holding us back?
16:09:34 [nigel]
Glenn: I need to implement the decision from last week and deal with the comments on the use of
16:09:49 [nigel]
.. specref, to go through and check to see if Specref is generating through respec the correct information
16:10:05 [nigel]
Nigel: easy way to do this
16:10:16 [nigel]
-> https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/59 PR #59
16:10:25 [nigel]
Nigel: Then click Diff
16:10:26 [glenn]
glenn has joined #tt
16:10:47 [nigel]
-> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/59/5483f8e...c847a99.html Diff
16:11:26 [nigel]
Nigel: The only deltas are in the References at the bottom.
16:11:44 [nigel]
Glenn: Okay I'll take a look at that and try to wrap it up later today.
16:11:47 [nigel]
Nigel: Thank you
16:12:40 [nigel]
Philippe: TTML2 is only informative somehow.
16:12:50 [nigel]
Nigel: That's because we haven't done issue #39.
16:13:05 [nigel]
Glenn: Good that diff tool will be helpful.
16:13:19 [nigel]
Philippe: By the way you want to check those TTML references, I do not think the 2nd Ed references
16:13:26 [nigel]
.. should be normative. I could be wrong.
16:14:13 [nigel]
Glenn: Thanks for that comment.
16:14:41 [nigel]
Nigel: Is there anything else to discuss on the profile registry?
16:14:55 [nigel]
Glenn: There are 8 open issues to resolve.
16:15:19 [nigel]
Philippe: By the way one more thing on the normative thing, if you click the link it will tell you the version
16:15:22 [nigel]
.. is outdated anyway.
16:15:31 [nigel]
Nigel: You mean only 3rd Ed should be normative?
16:15:35 [nigel]
Philippe: Correct
16:15:49 [nigel]
Glenn: It's a conceptual fine point, we're using dated URLs in this registry.
16:16:00 [nigel]
Philippe: Yes but you're normatively referencing outdated specifications.
16:16:12 [nigel]
Glenn: Yes you're probably right I'll take a close look at that. Thanks.
16:16:19 [nigel]
Philippe: Thank you.
16:16:39 [nigel]
Topic: TTWG Future Requirements
16:17:04 [nigel]
Nigel: A few things here:
16:17:17 [nigel]
.. 1. I need to do the Charter draft updates.
16:17:34 [nigel]
.. 2. Glenn was going to prepare a TTML requirements doc - not sure if we need that?
16:17:51 [nigel]
.. 3. Reminder about explainers being a good idea.
16:18:07 [nigel]
.. And I'd like to give a status report on issue 2.
16:18:23 [nigel]
..
16:18:58 [nigel]
.. On the Charter draft I thought Philippe was going to make some changes to the charter draft repo.
16:19:06 [nigel]
Philippe: I thought it was not urgent.
16:19:19 [nigel]
Nigel: Oh sorry my fault, I need to make the updates by the end of February I think.
16:19:26 [nigel]
Philippe: Okay I'll bump up the priority!
16:19:48 [nigel]
Nigel: And Glenn are you still intending to create a document for the TTML requirements?
16:20:05 [nigel]
Glenn: I think I have one, it hasn't been updated for a while.
16:20:12 [nigel]
.. It's still the intent.
16:20:36 [nigel]
.. I've basically used one of the IMSC1.1 requirements documents as a boilerplate to start with.
16:20:43 [nigel]
Philippe: Do you need a repo?
16:20:50 [nigel]
Nigel: We'll use the tt-reqs repo.
16:21:24 [nigel]
..
16:21:36 [nigel]
.. Re Explainers, anything complicated enough to warrant a horizontal review should have an
16:21:39 [nigel]
.. explainer.
16:21:49 [nigel]
Glenn: I was looking at that. I see there's a TTML2 2nd Ed requirements doc,
16:22:01 [nigel]
.. so I need a TTML3 1st ed requirements document as well, so I'll create that.
16:22:30 [nigel]
Philippe: Explainer documents have become more of a trend nowadays.
16:22:43 [nigel]
.. The TAG requires one if you want them to review your document, so it is a Thing.
16:22:55 [nigel]
Glenn: We used to call those White Papers, it may be out of vogue now.
16:23:15 [nigel]
Nigel: I also wanted to open up issue #2.
16:23:25 [nigel]
Topic: Add generic CSS property functionality tt-reqs#2
16:23:32 [nigel]
github: https://github.com/w3c/tt-reqs/issues/2
16:23:57 [nigel]
Nigel: Been discussing with implementers for BBC.
16:25:39 [nigel]
.. Thinking about adding a "decorations" approach to embellish existing semantics without affecting
16:25:40 [nigel]
.. layout.
16:26:00 [nigel]
.. One thing that we probably will ask for though is a change to the value of the tts:fontWeight
16:26:21 [nigel]
.. attribute, to allow numbers as per XSL-FO and CSS, because the current two options weren't enough
16:26:26 [nigel]
.. for the implementers.
16:27:26 [nigel]
Glenn: I know Vlad is not on the call, but I imagine he would suggest something like using the
16:27:41 [nigel]
.. fontVariant style by adding more richness to its value space to support parameterised fonts.
16:27:59 [nigel]
.. One dimension or axis of those is weight along with width for example, narrow vs wide, and heavy vs light.
16:28:14 [nigel]
.. Those are in a number of fonts, as continuous parameters that can be passed to the font
16:28:21 [nigel]
.. rendering system to produce a continuous range of weight.
16:28:39 [nigel]
.. If we assign integer numbers then I don't know how interoperable that would be in terms of saying
16:28:54 [nigel]
.. which integer maps to a keyword used in the industry for labelling points on the continuous weight
16:29:10 [nigel]
.. axis. One thing we did not do in TTML2 with fontVariant, though it was on my list and I think there's
16:29:27 [nigel]
.. a TTML3 issue, is to bring in some of the more rich capabilities that CSS had discussed that tie it to the
16:29:39 [nigel]
.. OpenType and other font systems to allow you to specify low level feature labels and parameters
16:29:45 [nigel]
.. to those labels, one of which could be weight.
16:30:01 [nigel]
.. Before we decide to add integer values to the fontWeight attribute we need to look at the bigger picture.
16:30:08 [nigel]
Nigel: Interesting, thank you for that.
16:30:20 [nigel]
.. I just wanted to note that thinking is ongoing.
16:32:11 [nigel]
github-bot, end topic
16:32:37 [nigel]
Topic: TTML3 modules
16:33:01 [nigel]
Glenn: It's high on my priority list to create a boilerplate template for modules so that there's consistency
16:33:03 [nigel]
.. on them.
16:33:34 [nigel]
Topic: Add generic CSS property functionality tt-reqs#2 (continued)
16:33:43 [nigel]
github: https://github.com/w3c/tt-reqs/issues/2
16:33:59 [nigel]
Glenn: On the class attribute, it seems to require a link to a stylesheet.
16:34:38 [nigel]
.. If we add a class attribute we would need some way to reference it.
16:34:49 [nigel]
Nigel: Yes we could add it as a resource like audio or font.
16:35:09 [nigel]
Glenn: That's an interesting idea, I kind of like it, it would be different from the way SVG does it.
16:36:38 [nigel]
Topic: Spoken subtitle tt-reqs#13
16:36:43 [nigel]
github: https://github.com/w3c/tt-reqs/issues/13
16:36:58 [nigel]
Glenn: Nigel have you managed to contact the issue raiser on this?
16:37:22 [nigel]
Nigel: No, sorry, thanks for the reminder, I need to follow up with Pilar.
16:37:50 [nigel]
Topic: Fade in/out tt-reqs#11
16:37:58 [nigel]
github: https://github.com/w3c/tt-reqs/issues/11
16:38:06 [nigel]
Glenn: Any word from Andreas about following up on this?
16:38:12 [nigel]
Nigel: I've not heard anything more yet.
16:38:27 [nigel]
Glenn: The only potential action I can see is possibly adding support to IMSC for fade.
16:38:33 [nigel]
.. I don't see any feature definitions coming out of that.
16:39:03 [nigel]
Topic: TTML in RTP IETF submission
16:39:10 [nigel]
Nigel: Quick update from me on this.
16:39:22 [nigel]
.. You'll have seen on the reflector I submitted the feedback as agreed last week,
16:39:35 [nigel]
.. and have been working with the author to get that processed.
16:39:43 [nigel]
.. I have high confidence that will be done.
16:40:00 [nigel]
.. The Chair of the Payload group added a comment that it is okay to remove the duplication of the
16:40:06 [nigel]
.. media type registration.
16:41:56 [nigel]
Mike: That's good.
16:42:11 [nigel]
Glenn: Is section 7.1 going to be removed?
16:48:30 [mike]
https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/media-types.xhtml#application
16:53:46 [nigel]
group: [discussion]
16:54:05 [nigel]
Glenn: I think the only thing it should say is it uses application/ttml+xml and omit any other comments
16:54:17 [nigel]
.. about IANA or W3C responsibilities.
16:54:52 [nigel]
Mike: Any request for changes to the media type registry should be external to this document, we can
16:54:56 [nigel]
.. certainly make the changes.
16:55:54 [nigel]
.. My preference would be to remove the IANA and W3C considerations sections.
16:56:09 [nigel]
.. It may be a required section about IANA in which case scale it back as Glenn suggests.
16:56:24 [nigel]
.. The W3C section should be removed. We will make the reference in the profile registry but it doesn't
16:56:28 [nigel]
.. need to be in the document.
16:56:33 [nigel]
Glenn: That's fine with me.
16:56:36 [nigel]
Nigel: Okay, thank you.
16:56:58 [nigel]
Topic: WebVTT Implementation report
16:57:14 [nigel]
Gary: I've been working on this. I submitted a pull request to WPT to fix the references for some of
16:57:30 [nigel]
.. the align tests because they were out of date, and that has made those tests go green.
16:57:53 [nigel]
.. I've started looking at the other failures in VLC and vt.js and Edge and make some passes.
16:58:05 [nigel]
.. A lot of other failing tests are because there's a mismatch between the reference and the implementations
16:58:21 [nigel]
.. mostly around collision avoidance for cue boxes. I'm still trying to wrap my head around how the
16:58:35 [nigel]
.. algorithm works but it seems like the references are incorrect so hopefully I will be able to walk through
16:58:50 [nigel]
.. this with Silvia and update the references, and that may improve the status of those tests.
16:59:10 [nigel]
.. The wpt.fyi website now allows you to select browser versions and you can see that a bunch of
16:59:26 [nigel]
.. newer experimental browser versions have more passing tests so they are working on fixing things,
16:59:28 [nigel]
.. which is good.
16:59:48 [nigel]
.. For the next week I'll continue focusing on the failing tests, updating vtt.js, and probably filing bugs
16:59:58 [nigel]
.. with browsers so they can get started on fixing things as well.
17:00:08 [nigel]
Nigel: Thanks for the update.
17:00:23 [nigel]
Topic: Meeting close
17:00:56 [nigel]
Nigel: Thank you, that brings us to time on this meeting, so I'll adjourn it now. [adjourns meeting]
17:01:01 [nigel]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:01:01 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/14-tt-minutes.html nigel
17:05:02 [nigel]
github-bot, end topic
17:05:09 [nigel]
s/github-bot, end topic//g
17:07:28 [nigel]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:07:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/14-tt-minutes.html nigel
17:08:22 [nigel]
scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
17:08:23 [nigel]
Scribe
17:08:27 [nigel]
s/Scribe//
17:08:29 [nigel]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:08:29 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/14-tt-minutes.html nigel
18:08:13 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #tt