20:48:09 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dxwgdcat
20:48:09 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/01/30-dxwgdcat-irc
20:48:30 <DaveBrowning> RRSAgent, make logs public
20:48:54 <DaveBrowning> meeting: DXWG DCAT subgroup teleconference 30 January 2019 21:00 UTC
20:49:04 <DaveBrowning> chair: DaveBrowning
20:49:26 <DaveBrowning> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2019.01.30
20:49:35 <DaveBrowning> present+
20:50:05 <DaveBrowning> RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:50:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/30-dxwgdcat-minutes.html DaveBrowning
20:50:10 <DaveBrowning> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
20:50:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/30-dxwgdcat-minutes.html DaveBrowning
20:56:21 <DaveBrowning> regrets: Alasdair Gray, Erik Mannens, Thomas D'Haenens, Lars Svensson, Makx, RiccardoAlbertoni
20:56:24 <DaveBrowning> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
20:56:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/30-dxwgdcat-minutes.html DaveBrowning
21:00:10 <alejandra> alejandra has joined #dxwgdcat
21:02:48 <SimonCox> SimonCox has joined #dxwgdcat
21:02:55 <SimonCox> present+
21:04:11 <PWinstanley> PWinstanley has joined #dxwgdcat
21:04:24 <PWinstanley> present+
21:08:03 <SimonCox> scribenick: SimonCox
21:08:12 <alejandra> present+
21:08:21 <SimonCox> Topic: approve agenda
21:08:22 <SimonCox> https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2019.01.30
21:09:05 <SimonCox> resolved: agenda OK
21:09:22 <SimonCox> topic: approve minutes of last meeting
21:09:28 <DaveBrowning> https://www.w3.org/2019/01/23-dxwgdcat-minutes
21:09:34 <PWinstanley> +1
21:09:36 <alejandra> +1
21:09:37 <SimonCox> +1
21:09:47 <SimonCox> resolved: minutes approved
21:09:51 <DaveBrowning> +1
21:10:12 <SimonCox> topic: actions
21:10:13 <DaveBrowning> https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/track/actions/open
21:10:14 <SimonCox> https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/track/actions/open
21:12:04 <SimonCox> Clarify timing on Annette's action from last week - was discussed in plenary and OK now
21:12:31 <SimonCox> Action https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/track/actions/280 can be closed
21:12:31 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
21:13:02 <SimonCox> Defer discussion of Andrea's actions for when he joins meeting
21:13:50 <DaveBrowning> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:13:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/30-dxwgdcat-minutes.html DaveBrowning
21:14:23 <SimonCox> https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/track/actions/282 respec issues are affecting us
21:14:29 <SimonCox> topic: public comments
21:14:33 <DaveBrowning> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dxwg-comments/
21:14:51 <SimonCox> a lot more traffic on comments list now!
21:16:41 <SimonCox> Comment on DCAT - 2019-01-28 Daniel Pop https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dxwg-comments/2019Jan/0013.html
21:16:52 <AndreaPerego> AndreaPerego has joined #dxwgdcat
21:17:36 <SimonCox> need to clarify documentation that accrualPeriodicity gives the maximum temporal resolution available for a Dataset, but Distributions might have different spacings
21:18:04 <SimonCox> Action: DaveBrowning to respond to Pop
21:18:04 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
21:18:11 <DaveBrowning> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:18:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/30-dxwgdcat-minutes.html DaveBrowning
21:18:28 <AndreaPerego> present+ AndreaPerego
21:18:56 <SimonCox> Hello AndreaPerego can you report on any actions https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/track/actions/open
21:19:20 <SimonCox> ... do we still have to respond to Ine?
21:19:23 <alejandra> https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/track/actions/278
21:19:38 <alejandra> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dxwg-wg/2019Jan/0363.html
21:21:24 <SimonCox> AndreaPerego: importnat comments on introduction of Services to DCAT
21:21:25 <alejandra> +q to ask about services implementations and background compatibility re: distributions
21:21:44 <SimonCox> ... some happy, some see it as disruptive to their current way of doing things
21:21:56 <SimonCox> ... worried that they suddenly become non-conformant
21:23:43 <DaveBrowning> q?
21:23:50 <alejandra> The big note about the slight change of semantics of Distributions is in the distribution section: https://w3c.github.io/dxwg/dcat/#Class:Distribution
21:24:12 <DaveBrowning> ack alejandra
21:24:12 <Zakim> alejandra, you wanted to ask about services implementations and background compatibility re: distributions
21:24:56 <PWinstanley> +1 to alejandra  - we cannot make the previous inferences with the current model
21:25:01 <SimonCox> alejandra: it can be argued that DCAT-rev is not backward compatible
21:25:13 <DaveBrowning> q+
21:25:31 <SimonCox> ... the revision disentangles an unhelpful confusion in scope of dcat:Distribution
21:25:43 <AndreaPerego> q+
21:25:58 <SimonCox> ... need to find more support for the change, to demonstrate implementations of the new classes
21:26:28 <SimonCox> ... e.g. Amsterdam City, others in Europe - we should contact them to encourage implementation
21:26:33 <DaveBrowning> ack DaveBrowning
21:26:53 <SimonCox> ... also to clarify which UC they are responding to
21:27:23 <SimonCox> DaveBrowning: make warning note more obvious, maybe repeat in dcat:DataService definition
21:28:05 <SimonCox> ... suggest that people use profiles to day (I'm using "DCAT 2014" interpretation of dcat:Distribution)
21:28:17 <SimonCox> s/day/say/
21:28:18 <PWinstanley> but many people start with keyword searches and in the new model that is ambiguous
21:28:27 <DaveBrowning> ack AndreaPerego
21:28:55 <DaveBrowning> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:28:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/30-dxwgdcat-minutes.html DaveBrowning
21:29:25 <SimonCox> AndreaPerego: 2 aspects of changes: 1. Services are first-class catalogable entities
21:29:53 <SimonCox> ... it is a choice of catalog implementer whether they include services or not
21:30:09 <SimonCox> ... CKAN does not distinguish datasets and services
21:30:33 <SimonCox> ... should we work with CKAN devs to add 'Service'
21:30:57 <SimonCox> ... 2. link from Service --> Distribution is not well understood
21:31:21 <SimonCox> ... people worried that they can't continue to tie these together in the same way
21:31:42 <DaveBrowning> q?
21:32:08 <SimonCox> ... 'this is not a file, this is a serv ice, so you have to do more than just click on the link'
21:32:17 <SimonCox> s/serv ice/service/
21:33:06 <alejandra> +q
21:33:21 <DaveBrowning> ack alejandra
21:33:28 <SimonCox> ... note that the instructions in DCAT-rev uses SHOULD not MUST on this topic so leagcy is protected that way too
21:33:39 <SimonCox> s/leagcy/legacy/
21:34:33 <DaveBrowning> q?
21:34:46 <SimonCox> alejandra: yes - this last point is key - it is strictly backward compatible, but maybe need to add some guidance on how to differentiate the two styles of use
21:35:24 <SimonCox> ... how to recognise new representation? It uses the new classes and properties!
21:35:34 <AndreaPerego> q+
21:35:43 <DaveBrowning> q?
21:35:51 <DaveBrowning> ack AndreaPerego
21:36:02 <SimonCox> AndreaPerego: what is happening now:
21:36:31 <SimonCox> ... 1. GeoNetwork - can already recognise if a URL points to a service or a file
21:36:58 <SimonCox> ... 1a. CKAN Geospatial - uses format information to detect a WMS
21:37:21 <SimonCox> ... but these are guesses that depend on the platform (geospatial)
21:37:26 <DaveBrowning> q+
21:37:42 <SimonCox> ... would be improvded by making it explicit! i.e. dcat:DataService and sub-classes
21:38:37 <SimonCox> ... the missing piece to distinguish services (WMS, SPARQL endpoint) from distros (files) is exactly what is addressed in the DCAT-rev proposal for services
21:39:16 <SimonCox> ... should we contact CKAN people? maybe not, they are already responding to what they see in DCAT APs
21:39:48 <DaveBrowning> ack DaveBrowning
21:39:51 <SimonCox> ... need to focus on the community (customers) not the tool providers
21:40:11 <SimonCox> DaveBrowning: good angle on text to be added
21:40:49 <SimonCox> ... 2014 users need guess-work to succeed. -rev is enabling catalog managers to be more clear, thus better for their customers
21:41:23 <SimonCox> ... aligning with standard is irrelevant unless customers are actually demanding it
21:41:56 <AndreaPerego> s/improvded/improved/
21:42:15 <SimonCox> ... actually we are not hurting you here, it is a better solution if you can adopt it, but as-you-were if you are not in a position to adopt it now
21:42:28 <AndreaPerego> s/serv ice/service/
21:42:41 <AndreaPerego> q+
21:44:00 <alejandra> +q
21:44:00 <SimonCox> ... maybe this is part of Distributions spring?
21:44:04 <DaveBrowning> ack AndreaPerego
21:44:30 <alejandra> q-
21:44:47 <alejandra> it doesn't hurt that Andrea starts looking at this and then we discuss the new text in the sprint
21:44:57 <SimonCox> AndreaPerego: people don't read everything - just needs to be moved to a more prominent place, perhaps in the introduction
21:45:01 <alejandra> actually, it would be helpful
21:45:09 <DaveBrowning> +1 to alejandra
21:45:25 <SimonCox> s/just/the not on scope of dcat:Distribution just/
21:45:32 <SimonCox> s/not/note/
21:46:54 <SimonCox> action: AndreaPerego to propose changes to add a note re legacy use of dcat:DIstribution for services more prominent higher in rec
21:46:54 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
21:47:10 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:47:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/30-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:47:21 <PWinstanley> s/dcat:DIstribution/dcat:Distribution
21:47:30 <AndreaPerego> +1
21:48:27 <AndreaPerego> q+
21:48:29 <SimonCox> alejandra: 1. license and rights information everywhere
21:48:44 <alejandra> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/pull/717
21:48:53 <SimonCox> 2. too much inheritted material is repeated in discussion of catalog class
21:49:30 <alejandra> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/704
21:49:32 <SimonCox> DaveBrowning: some of the text is tweaked for context ...
21:51:14 <SimonCox> alejandra: however, needs reader to do more work, and interpret semantics of property in context
21:51:24 <SimonCox> topic: sprint planning
21:52:05 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:52:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/30-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:52:20 <SimonCox> DaveBrowning: 1st spring next Tuesday(/Wednesday) on Distributions
21:52:26 <SimonCox> s/spring/sprint/
21:52:38 <DaveBrowning> distribution related issues are https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Adcat%3ADistribution
21:53:32 <SimonCox> all spring participants should review this list of issues before next week
21:53:41 <SimonCox> s/spring/sprint/
21:54:07 <alejandra> +q
21:54:23 <DaveBrowning> ack AndreaPerego
21:54:35 <DaveBrowning> ack alejandra
21:55:13 <SimonCox> alejandra: OK for us to skip plenary for sprint, but do we also have regular wednesday(/thursday) meeting?
21:55:39 <AndreaPerego> +1
21:55:49 <PWinstanley> +1 - keep regular
21:55:57 <alejandra> +1
21:56:04 <SimonCox> +1 to keep meeting
21:56:30 <SimonCox> DaveBrowning: regular meeting is for progressing checking, spring is for focusing on a feature
21:56:53 <alejandra> SimonCox: should I set up a webex for the sprint meeting?
21:57:06 <SimonCox> action: SimonCox to set up webex for spring
21:57:06 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
21:57:08 <alejandra> +1
21:57:12 <SimonCox> s/spring/sprint/
21:58:30 <SimonCox> action: DaveBrowning to send out announcement of sprint meeting
21:58:30 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
21:59:41 <SimonCox> PWinstanley: maybe use a google doc during the meeting which we can collaboratively edit
21:59:55 <SimonCox> ... paste into the real place immediately following
22:00:21 <DaveBrowning> q?
22:00:50 <AndreaPerego> q+
22:00:54 <SimonCox> +1 to collaborative editing in real time, github for asynchronous
22:01:09 <SimonCox> ... style editing
22:01:19 <DaveBrowning> ack AndreaPerego
22:01:27 <AndreaPerego> Issue with references: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/702
22:01:27 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
22:02:06 <SimonCox> AndreaPerego: references are being sorted into the wrong sections (normative vs non-normative)
22:02:26 <SimonCox> ... October change to ReSpec - looks like a bug?
22:02:35 <SimonCox> q+
22:03:23 <SimonCox> ... respec is pretty brutal on section tagging
22:03:43 <SimonCox> ... we need to add ? or ! to all refs
22:04:00 <SimonCox> ... and class='normative' vs 'non-normative' on sections
22:04:02 <DaveBrowning> ack SimonCox
22:06:07 <PWinstanley> rrsagent, create minutes v2
22:06:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/30-dxwgdcat-minutes.html PWinstanley
22:06:12 <SimonCox> e.g. ref Linked Data Patterns is listed in Normative - shouldn't be!
22:07:04 <SimonCox> DaveBrowning: has marked some issues 'due for closing' please all review so we can do some cleanup!
22:07:43 <SimonCox> ... editors prerogative to close issues, they can always be re-opened
22:07:52 <SimonCox> rrsagent, draft minutes v2
22:07:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/30-dxwgdcat-minutes.html SimonCox