21:03:08 RRSAgent has joined #dxwgdcat 21:03:08 logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/01/16-dxwgdcat-irc 21:03:46 rrsagent, generate minutes v2 21:03:46 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/16-dxwgdcat-minutes.html alejandra 21:03:50 Zakim has joined #dxwgdcat 21:04:16 RRSAgent, make logs world 21:04:26 rrsagent: make logs public 21:04:27 RRSAgent, draft minutes v2 21:04:27 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/16-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego 21:05:05 present+ alejandra 21:05:10 present+ AndreaPerego 21:05:16 DaveBrowning has joined #dxwgdcat 21:05:17 present+ PWinstanley 21:05:22 present+ SimonCox 21:05:25 RRSAgent, draft minutes v2 21:05:25 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/16-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego 21:05:26 present+ 21:05:43 Meeting: Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2019.01.16 21:05:52 s/rrsagent: make logs public// 21:05:56 RRSAgent, draft minutes v2 21:05:56 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/16-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego 21:06:09 agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2019.01.16 21:06:13 RRSAgent, draft minutes v2 21:06:13 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/16-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego 21:06:37 scribenick: PWinstanley 21:06:45 meeting: DXWG DCAT subgroup teleconference 21:06:59 chair: alejandra 21:07:03 RRSAgent, draft minutes v2 21:07:03 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/16-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego 21:07:13 regrets+ Makx 21:07:47 agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2019.01.16 21:08:00 alejandra: the agenda tries to focus on pending comments 21:08:07 riccardoAlbertoni has joined #dxwgdcat 21:08:24 ... we also have internal comments, and pull requests 21:08:26 present+ 21:08:44 Agenda confirmed 21:08:48 ... in the absence of other comments, let's proceed 21:09:02 topic: approve minutes 21:09:03 https://www.w3.org/2019/01/09-dxwgdcat-minutes 21:09:10 +1 21:09:14 +1 21:09:19 +1 21:09:20 +0 ( i was no there) 21:09:20 +1 21:09:21 q? 21:09:31 +1 21:09:43 resolved: minutes approved 21:09:48 RRSAgent, draft minutes v2 21:09:48 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/16-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego 21:09:54 topic: Outstanding actions 21:10:02 https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/track/actions/open 21:10:07 resolved: approve last minutes 21:11:01 q? 21:11:08 s/resolved: approve last minutes// 21:11:35 topic: Public comments list 21:11:38 RRSAgent, draft minutes v2 21:11:38 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/16-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego 21:11:48 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dxwg-comments/ 21:12:17 Stephen Richard's comments 21:12:17 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dxwg-comments/2018Nov/0007.html 21:12:53 +q 21:12:54 q? 21:13:04 q- 21:14:33 It is about recounciling the entities 21:14:40 PWinstanley_ has joined #dxwgdcat 21:14:41 Relevent section: https://w3c.github.io/dxwg/dcat/#Property:catalog_homepage 21:14:50 present+ 21:15:03 s/Relevent/Relevant/ 21:15:28 alejandra: we need to check the usage notes 21:15:48 q+ 21:15:55 q- 21:16:00 ... we need to reply, but change the text for something easier to understand 21:16:53 action SimonCox to deal with the phrase change and reply to Stephen Richards 21:16:53 Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel. 21:17:11 RRSAgent, draft minutes v2 21:17:11 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/16-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego 21:17:15 second comment: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dxwg-comments/2018Nov/0003.html 21:17:22 alejandra: second comment, we haven't replied 21:17:33 ... he suggests changes to section 5 21:18:14 ... We have already addressed these issues 21:18:58 q? 21:19:04 ... I'm not sure exactly what change he is proposing 21:19:10 ... Any Views? 21:20:08 SimonCox: He is referring to section 5 - it has been rewritten. we should process that branch I've been working on then respond 21:20:16 ... asking if it is now clearer 21:20:43 +1 to handling in the existing work 21:20:46 https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/431 21:21:15 alejandra: the issue is confusion of the different classes, which we have resolved and are improving further 21:21:18 first address issue 432 21:21:28 refer to issue 431 that has been closed (https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/431) 21:21:45 and after that contact Stephen 21:22:24 action SimonCox to respond to Stephen after 432 has been addressed 21:22:24 Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel. 21:23:07 alejandra: there is another old comment mentioned by antoine 21:23:10 Nuno Freire's comment: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dxwg-comments/2018Apr/0001.html 21:24:14 https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/667 21:24:16 ... he is asking if DCAT is going to have anything similar to void:Resource 21:24:23 https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/292 21:24:35 DaveBrowning: It may be an existing issue that is still open 21:24:38 corresponding issue: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/667 21:24:42 I think this is in scopre with the discussion on relationship between DCAT, VoID and RDF DataCube - which is still an open issue. 21:25:13 s/scopre/scope/ 21:25:21 SimonCox: similar to the cataloguong of resources that are not distributions, we suggested dct:relation where a general case is required 21:25:34 +q 21:25:55 ... that is a potential solution to the question, but we dont say that links to all resources should be included 21:26:18 s/cataloguong/cataloguing/ 21:26:19 alejandra: Riccardo also put the link. #292 21:26:37 q? 21:26:39 ... void relates only to RDF datasets 21:26:43 ack riccardoAlbertoni 21:27:24 riccardoAlbertoni: this is to facilitate crawling, but in our case the resources are all together, so I don't think that DCAT should include tis 21:27:26 See also this one: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/88 21:27:32 s/tis/this/ 21:27:44 q? 21:27:47 q+ 21:27:57 q+ 21:28:08 ack AndreaPerego 21:29:06 from VoID: One or more such root resources can be named using the void:rootResource property. Naming a resource as a root resource implies: that it is a central entity of particular importance in the dataset; and that the entire dataset can be crawled by resolving the root resource(s) and recursively following links to other URIs in the retrieved RDF responses. 21:29:18 AndreaPerego: this comment is part of the general issue discussed at the beginning about the relationship between DCAT and other related vocabs. This is still an open issue, and an important problem. People are struggling to know how DCAT, VOID and QB can be used together 21:29:33 ... This is not only about relationships, but about Classes too 21:30:06 ... I've heard people questioning how properties and classes in VOID can be used for non-RDF data 21:30:10 q- 21:30:18 q+ 21:30:49 ... It would be nice to come up with some position about these relations, and this might indirectly answer this question 21:30:56 working note 2011 21:30:57 SimonCox: What is the status of VOID? 21:31:11 https://www.w3.org/TR/void/ 21:31:12 alejandra: it is an interest group note 21:31:33 AndreaPerego: it is widely used, similar to FOAF - a de facto standard 21:31:46 alejandra: it is *very* specific for RDF 21:31:57 ack alejandra 21:32:08 ... if we say we use it in DCAT we need to rely on the specification 21:32:10 q+ 21:32:28 ... Given the URI of a dataset how can you crawl the content? 21:32:31 q+ 21:33:07 related to this other issue https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/482 21:33:10 ack AndreaPerego 21:33:25 q+ 21:33:39 AndreaPerego: even though is it just about RDF data we need to specify the relation to DCAT 21:33:50 ack PWinstanley_ 21:34:18 PWinstanley_: at the EuroStat meeting, Ed (from Google) was talking and pointing out quite strongly... 21:34:29 ... the interest of considering data for crawling 21:34:35 ... rather than something to be accessed 21:34:41 ... Ed Parsons 21:34:48 This was also what discussed at length in the SDW WG. 21:34:52 q? 21:34:59 SimonCox: it is very much the Google line 21:35:13 ... everything is landing page related 21:35:27 alejandra: they rely on site maps 21:35:32 q+ 21:35:56 SimonCox: Do we need a refer to site maps? 21:35:56 ack DaveBrowning 21:35:59 alejandra: Yes 21:36:03 PWinstanley_: yes 21:36:22 s/a refer/a reference 21:36:33 DaveBrowning: there is perhaps a requirement to do with manifests, something explaining in more detail what is contained 21:37:11 ... I think one of the user cases we've skirted round is scouring catalogues 21:37:36 q? 21:37:43 ... I think it would be good to do a deep dive here, but it might take time 21:38:01 SimonCox: ask him for a suggestion of a solution? 21:38:09 ack AndreaPerego 21:38:18 alejandra: there are several solution options. 21:38:47 I would ask if addressing sitemaps or manifest files would cover his use case 21:38:52 i.e. would a SiteMap or other kind of 'Manifest' file provide the solution? 21:39:10 AndreaPerego: Following on the comment referencing Ed Parsons, manifests are more metadata, whereas google are interested in crawling the data 21:39:16 q? 21:39:37 ... this is a bit out of scope 21:40:19 scribenick: AndreaPerego 21:40:34 RRSAgent, draft minutes v2 21:40:34 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/16-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego 21:41:32 q? 21:41:37 alejandra: who would like to take that action? 21:41:52 action Alejandra to reply to Nuno F asking for more details and mentioning sitemaps and manifest files 21:41:52 Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel. 21:42:14 alejandra: next comment 21:42:25 Luca Trani's comment: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dxwg-comments/2018Dec/0000.html 21:43:04 alejandra: AndreaPerego sent a report. Anything else to discuss 21:44:12 q+ 21:44:13 ... would you send a reply to him? 21:44:21 ack DaveBrowning 21:44:24 AndreaPerego: Yep 21:44:38 action: AndreaPerego to reply to 2nd Luca's comment 21:44:38 Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel. 21:45:18 DaveBrowning: We discussed last time about adding a comment on dcat:Resource as extension point. This is part of the answer Luca's needs 21:45:31 s/Luca's/Luca/ 21:45:37 alejandra: last comment 21:45:40 Ine de Visser's comment: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dxwg-comments/2019Jan/0002.html 21:46:34 alejandra: Some of the points is related to the use of some properties, and similar comments are already included in the GH issues 21:46:53 ... she refers to INSPIRE, and supports the inclusion of services in DCAT 21:46:57 q? 21:47:13 ... any comments? 21:48:08 q+ 21:48:09 +q 21:48:23 ack AndreaPerego 21:48:50 AndreaPerego: one of the points that Ine is making ... 21:49:36 ... is that the properties (accessURL, etc) should be defined unambigously irrespectively if they are use with datasets or services 21:49:46 ... the issue I see is that there are some legacy properties... 21:49:51 q- 21:50:14 ... and if we change the semantics dramatically, we might break backward compatibility 21:50:40 ... the other point is raising an issue about the aligments between definitions of terms we use and how they are use inside INSPIRE 21:50:58 ... we can check these ones and see if it makes sense to reconsider the terms we are using 21:51:15 ... or if we just mention the corresponding INSPIRE term as related 21:51:34 q? 21:51:47 alejandra: meanwhile we can reply to say thanks and that we'll address her comments 21:52:01 SimonCox: I suggest AndreaPerego to look into this 21:52:11 q+ 21:52:27 ack DaveBrowning 21:52:36 +1 to Andrea doing analysis 21:52:46 +1 to andrea ( that was also my interpretation, she seemed confused by the presence of properties that are somehow applicable in similar situation) 21:52:46 action: AndreaPerego to prepare a report about Ine's email and send it to the group 21:52:46 Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel. 21:53:20 DaveBrowning: The part of machine-readability needs to be unpacked 21:54:21 alejandra: I'll then reply to Ine in the meantime 21:54:31 alejandra: karen's comment now 21:54:35 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dxwg-wg/2019Jan/0195.html 21:55:00 https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/pull/669 21:55:01 ... it's about ODRS / ODRL in the section about 21:55:38 ... licenses and rights 21:56:31 AndreaPerego: Actually, one open issue is whether we should keep ODRS or not in the DCAT sepc 21:56:37 s/sepc/spec/ 21:56:44 https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/milestone/14 21:56:46 alejandra: this concludes the comments 21:56:54 https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/pulls 21:56:58 q+ 21:57:04 ... just want to bring your attention to milestones and open issues 21:57:09 q- 21:57:46 SimonCox: Maybe we can talk about https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/432 21:58:26 ... one of the things I was thinking of was whether we'd better remove dcat:DiscoveryService 21:58:35 +1 to keeping DDS 21:59:16 ... I think quite strongly we should keep dcat:DataDistributionService, also because illustrates about the point that dcat:DataService is a possible extension point for other services. 21:59:17 https://rawgit.com/w3c/dxwg/dcat-issue432-simon/dcat/index.html#Class:Data_Service 21:59:36 ... I'm revising the definitions now, and I would to ask people to look it 22:00:16 s/to look it/to look at it/ 22:00:46 SimonCox: Are you fine with dropping dcat:DiscoveryService? 22:01:03 q+ 22:01:07 q? 22:01:13 ack DaveBrowning 22:01:14 ... or should we keep it and mark later if deprecated in case? 22:01:22 q+ 22:01:42 DaveBrowning: I agree with the idea of dropping it 22:01:57 ack AndreaPerego 22:02:34 q? 22:03:03 alejandra: maybe we need to look at the requirements, and see if there's a need for that 22:03:18 bye thanks ! 22:03:26 \quit 22:03:30 alejandra: let's close the meeting and keep on discussing offline. 22:03:37 [meeting adjourned] 22:03:41 rrsagent, generate minutes v2 22:03:41 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/16-dxwgdcat-minutes.html SimonCox 22:03:46 RRSAgent, draft minutes v2 22:03:46 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/16-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego 22:04:34 action: Alejandra to reply to Ine de Visser to acknowledge her message 22:04:34 Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel. 22:04:42 rrsagent, generate minutes v2 22:04:42 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/16-dxwgdcat-minutes.html alejandra