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16:02:50 <trackbot> Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
16:02:50 <trackbot> Date: 10 January 2019
16:04:00 <nigel> Present+ Nigel
16:04:38 <nigel> Log: https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-tt-irc
16:04:59 <cyril> scribe: cyril
16:05:25 <cyril> Present+ Cyril, Andreas, Gary, Glenn
16:05:32 <cyril> Present+ Pierre
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16:06:17 <nigel> Chair: Nigel
16:06:24 <cyril> Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/11
16:08:28 <cyril> nigel: no objection or addition to the agenda?
16:08:34 <cyril> ... agenda is approved as posted
16:09:03 <cyril> gkatsev: I started looking at the preliminary impl report and I can give an overview
16:09:11 <cyril> Topic: TTML Profile Registry
16:09:22 <cyril> nigel: there are 2 PR and one issue marked for agenda
16:10:08 <glenn> https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/55
16:10:54 <cyril> github: https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/55
16:11:22 <cyril> nigel: there is one particular comment that need discussion
16:11:31 <cyril> ... It's about the IANA registration part
16:11:49 <cyril> ... this PR adds text that says the document augments the registration
16:12:01 <cyril> ... but this document defines the MIME type and cannot augment it
16:12:12 <pal> pal has joined #tt
16:12:12 <cyril> glenn: I looked at it a bit more and now agree with you
16:12:48 <cyril> ... we can change without IANA approval afaik
16:12:53 <cyril> nigel: afaik
16:13:08 <cyril> glenn: then I will edit it and should be able to resolve that
16:13:19 <cyril> nigel: is it worth going over any other part of this PR
16:13:23 <cyril> glenn: no
16:13:41 <cyril> nigel: then we'll continue the discussion about how we reference other specs offline
16:14:38 <cyril> summary: editor has a way forward to deal with review comments on IANA registration
16:14:55 <cyril> github-bot, end topic
16:15:16 <glenn> +q
16:15:40 <cyril> Topic: https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/57
16:15:49 <cyril> github: https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/57
16:16:07 <cyril> nigel: this PR creates a JSON in the repository to make it easier to view PR
16:16:22 <cyril> ... it's enabled on all repositories of W3C but it needs this file
16:16:47 <cyril> glenn: I'll approve that, I don't know what previewing a PR means
16:17:17 <cyril> nigel: at the top of the PR, preview and diff links get added
16:17:28 <cyril> glenn: I don't think this is enable in TTML2
16:17:44 <cyril> nigel: it works for respec and bikeshed specs, not for more complicated specs
16:18:13 <cyril> SUMMARY: Glenn will approve and merge it
16:18:19 <cyril> github-bot, end topic
16:19:16 <cyril> Topic: https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issues/56
16:19:25 <cyril> github-bot: https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issues/56
16:19:25 <github-bot> cyril, Sorry, I don't understand that command.  Try 'help'.
16:19:36 <cyril> github-bot: https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issue/56
16:19:36 <github-bot> cyril, Sorry, I don't understand that command.  Try 'help'.
16:19:47 <cyril> github: https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issues/56
16:20:39 <cyril> atai2: we need to double-check the reference
16:20:46 <cyril> nigel: maybe the etx2 is wrong
16:20:55 <cyril> atai2: it points to 3350
16:21:24 <cyril> ... it's not wrong, designator and identifier is correct
16:21:33 <cyril> ... what may need to be adjusted is the link to the specification
16:21:40 <cyril> ... but I need to double check it
16:23:15 <cyril> nigel: in the current editor's draft, there are version links to the 1-0 and 1-2 but there is no link to 1-1.
16:23:33 <cyril> ... it could be my mistake or something is wrong in the EBU specs
16:23:44 <cyril> atai2: I think you are right
16:23:51 <cyril> ... there should be EBU-TT 1.1
16:24:20 <cyril> SUMMARY: Nigel will open a PR to modify ext2 to point to EBU-TT 1.1
16:26:15 <cyril> Topic: TTWG Future Requirements
16:26:34 <cyril> nigel: we have nothing labelled for agenda in the issues
16:26:48 <cyril> ... for the things I've raised I owe the group a bit more details
16:27:00 <cyril> ... I'll provide more until the next meeting
16:27:44 <cyril> ... no one seems to want to add more now, action everybody to continue reviewing the current issues and ask for details
16:27:57 <cyril> Topic: Joint F2F meeting
16:28:13 <nigel> -> https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/F2F-jan-2019 Meeting wiki page
16:28:26 <cyril> nigel: according to the wiki, we hve 4 people listed as attending
16:28:32 <cyril> s/hve/have
16:29:13 <cyril> ... thank you andreas for the doodle for the dinner
16:29:24 <cyril> ... thank you thierry for updating the wiki page
16:29:43 <cyril> ... any admin questions?
16:30:00 <cyril> cyril: I won't able to travel
16:30:06 <cyril> ... will there be a way to join in
16:30:14 <cyril> nigel: no problem in setting up a webex
16:30:34 <cyril> ... Frans already set up of webex for the friday morning
16:30:45 <cyril> ... I will set up one for the thursday meeting
16:31:21 <cyril> ... I've given myself action 16
16:32:12 <cyril> nigel: also I want to mention that the joint meeting with the EBU timed text on the friday morning will discuss live contributions
16:32:34 <cyril> ... there is a proposal that 2 people will report on their implementation experience: Matt Simpson and me
16:32:58 <cyril> ... we shouldn't spend more than 30 min on these 2 slots
16:33:09 <cyril> ... do people have things to contribute?
16:33:31 <cyril> ... If you have any idea, please get in touch with me
16:33:43 <atai2> q+
16:33:52 <cyril> ... the other slightly admin point is that we'll do it as a W3C meeting in terms of IPR
16:34:07 <cyril> glenn: on impl experience, are you limiting it to the live scope?
16:34:31 <cyril> nigel: it is specifically on live contributions
16:35:06 <cyril> q+ cyril
16:35:11 <cyril> ack
16:35:58 <cyril> atai2: speaking as a EBU co-chair, we also want to discuss how the EBU TT group and the W3C TT group can collaborate
16:36:13 <cyril> ... we have most of the members in one room
16:36:31 <cyril> ... we should discuss what should be done in w3c and what should be done in ebu tt
16:36:39 <cyril> ... what should moved to w3c if any
16:36:54 <cyril> ... I want to make it one topic
16:37:33 <cyril> cyril: I would also be interested in discussing what can be done for the EBU features that are in IMSC and not in TTML2
16:38:14 <cyril> ... the fact that IMSC1.1 is not a strict subset of TTML2
16:39:07 <cyril> ... for example, discussing if copyright of EBU TT features could be transfered to W3C
16:39:51 <cyril> atai2: it would be good to discuss if the EBU TT group thinks extension will be done in the future in EBU or should be done in W3C
16:40:28 <cyril> nigel: a slighlty broader point is that TTML is extensible but what happens when an extension needs to be adopted more broadly
16:40:44 <cyril> ... I would like to understand why any change is needed
16:40:59 <cyril> ... it may not be the most elegant thing (several namespaces) but it's not that bad
16:41:07 <cyril> ... we need to motivate a change
16:42:21 <cyril> cyril: there are 2 parts: one is the fact that we have multiple namespaces but the first point is having one place to find the specification
16:42:30 <cyril> nigel: we also want to modularize
16:43:00 <cyril> cyril: it's harder to implement a spec if you have to pull sub-specs from different orgs
16:43:17 <cyril> ack
16:43:46 <cyril> nigel: I can go ahead and edit the wiki for the agenda
16:43:50 <cyril> ... anything else?
16:44:01 <cyril> ... no
16:44:08 <cyril> Topic: CSS actions review
16:44:17 <cyril> nigel: I don't think there is anything to discuss
16:45:09 <cyril> glenn: just a clarification, you mentioned future editorial changes
16:45:40 <cyril> ... I'm distinguishing between new features and substantive changes to existing features
16:46:25 <cyril> ... the issues I've been filing recently come from my internal list made during the finalization of the 1st edition
16:46:42 <cyril> ... I have about a dozen more
16:46:54 <cyril> ... hope to finish that before the meeting if we want to discuss some of them
16:47:17 <cyril> nigel: they are indeed editing tasks, not necessarily editorial
16:47:47 <cyril> pal: on that TTML2 topic, we had discussed requiring test cases to be submitted with tickets
16:47:52 <cyril> ... we should stick to that
16:47:57 <cyril> glenn: I don't recall that
16:48:02 <cyril> ... this is not a bad idea
16:48:16 <cyril> nigel: that would apply to the substantive changes
16:48:27 <cyril> ... a test case would be very helpful
16:48:41 <cyril> pal: it helps folks testing their implementation quickly
16:48:52 <cyril> glenn: also important for when we need to move to PR
16:49:15 <cyril> nigel: it also helps for the review of the spec
16:49:23 <cyril> glenn: makes it more concrete
16:50:13 <cyril> RESOLUTION: we reaffirm that we want to have test vectors for substantive changes
16:50:41 <cyril> Topic: WebVTT
16:50:51 <cyril> nigel: gkatsev wants to give an update
16:50:59 <cyril> gkatsev: I've started looking a bit more
16:51:10 <cyril> ... big initiative on wpt.fyi
16:51:15 <cyril> ... has an interop section
16:51:27 <cyril> ... shows you which test passes in 1, 2 or 3 browsers
16:51:46 <cyril> ... for the things that can be tested automatically, I'll use that
16:51:51 <nigel> -> https://wpt.fyi/results/webvtt?label=master&label=stable&aligned web-platform-tests dashboard for webvtt
16:52:02 <cyril> ... overall 80% of the features are implemented in 2 or more browsers
16:52:14 <cyril> ... there are some features for which I'm not sure
16:52:28 <cyril> ... for those that won't pass, I'll discuss with Silvia
16:52:42 <cyril> ... but 80% seems not as bas as I thought
16:53:14 <cyril> cyril: what about the new features: regions, styles
16:53:38 <cyril> gkatsev: safari 12.1 is supposed to support regions
16:53:44 <cyril> ... VLC supports it
16:53:58 <cyril> ... those 2 should qualify as implementation
16:54:09 <cyril> nigel: can you clarify how you reached the number of 80%
16:54:25 <cyril> gkatsev: I ignored rendering because they do not run automatically
16:54:35 <cyril> ... the value reported on wpt.fyi is wrong
16:54:35 <atai2> q+
16:54:46 <cyril> ack
16:55:11 <nigel> ack glenn
16:55:15 <cyril> ack atai
16:55:18 <cyril> ack cyril
16:55:38 <cyril> atai2: do you have an idea if the WPT fully covers the version of WebVTT
16:55:50 <cyril> gkatsev: I am not 100% sure but it seems the coverage is very good
16:56:08 <cyril> ... but we need to make sure it is before we can rely on WPT
16:56:20 <cyril> atai2: I'm not sure when the tests in WPT were made
16:56:41 <cyril> ... we should check if changes to the spec were made after the tests were added to WPT
16:56:58 <tmichel> q+
16:57:20 <cyril> ack tmichel
16:57:30 <cyril> tmichel: I am wondering about the coloring of the cells
16:57:39 <cyril> ... light green vs yellow
16:57:54 <cyril> gkatsev: I assumed the darker the green the higher the % of passing tests
16:58:36 <cyril> gkatsev: I think region is the most recent and has more risk
16:58:56 <cyril> tmichel: you mentioned VLC as a pretty good candidate for region support
16:59:03 <cyril> ... how do we test that?
16:59:34 <cyril> gkatsev: we can't test it automatically but we can load a VTT file in VLC and see how it work
16:59:37 <cyril> gkatsev: we can't test it automatically but we can load a VTT file in VLC and see how it works
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17:02:33 <cyril> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:02:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-tt-minutes.html cyril
17:03:41 <nigel> scribe: nigel
17:03:50 <nigel> s/github-bot, end topic//g
17:04:00 <nigel> s/+q/
17:04:33 <nigel> s/ack//g
17:04:52 <nigel> i/glenn: just a clarification/Topic: TTML2
17:05:06 <nigel> rrsagent, make minutes
17:05:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-tt-minutes.html nigel
17:06:57 <nigel> s/glenn/
17:07:01 <nigel> s/cyril/
17:07:02 <nigel> rrsagent, make minutes
17:07:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-tt-minutes.html nigel
17:08:17 <nigel> scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
17:08:18 <nigel> rrsagent, make minutes
17:08:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-tt-minutes.html nigel
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