15:00:52 RRSAgent has joined #tt 15:00:52 logging to https://www.w3.org/2018/12/06-tt-irc 15:00:54 RRSAgent, make logs public 15:00:54 Zakim has joined #tt 15:00:56 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 15:00:56 Date: 06 December 2018 15:01:21 Log: https://www.w3.org/2018/12/06-tt-irc 15:01:26 atai2 has joined #tt 15:02:19 tmichel has joined #tt 15:03:49 scribe: nigel 15:03:59 Present: Andreas, Gary, Matt, Pierre, Nigel 15:04:01 Chair: Nigel 15:04:04 Regrets: Glenn 15:04:11 Present+ Cyril 15:04:17 Topic: This meeting 15:04:24 nigel has changed the topic to: Weekly TTWG teleconferences on Thursdays at 1500 UTC. Agenda for this week: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/7 15:05:03 Nigel: Today, let's welcome Matt Simpson from Red Bee/Ericsson who has joined us. 15:05:37 Matt: Hi, I'm Head of Portfolio for Access Services at Red Bee, provider of live and prerecorded captioning, audio (video) 15:05:50 .. description and sign language translation, particularly interested in the transmission of live captioning data in means 15:06:02 .. that don't hark back to old linear broadcasting approaches like 608 or Teletext. 15:06:06 Nigel: Thank you! 15:06:14 Present+ Thierry 15:07:17 Nigel: [round-the-tables of who is on the call] 15:07:42 .. For today we have, in principle, TTML Profile Registry but I haven't seen any movement there yet, and neither Glenn 15:07:54 .. nor Mike are on the call, so we probably can't cover that. 15:08:05 .. Then TTWG future requirements, joint f2f. 15:08:24 Pierre: Even if we can't make progress we should spend 2 minutes on the registry - we need to get the pull requests done 15:08:25 .. somehow. 15:08:32 Nigel: Okay let's do that. 15:09:02 .. Back to the list, I don't think there's anything on CSS actions. Is there anything for WebVTT today? 15:09:08 Gary: I don't think so. 15:09:14 Thierry: Not for me either. 15:09:26 Nigel: Any other business or points to make sure we cover? 15:09:37 group: [silence] 15:10:07 Nigel: Before we move on a very quick look ahead to the rest of the year. Next week I will be at an ITU/EC event in Vienna 15:10:35 .. but hope to be able to run the call as usual. Then Dec 20th is our last call of the year. There will be no call on 27th 15:10:55 .. or 3rd January, so our first call in 2019 will be 10th January. 15:11:21 .. The other thing to remind everyone about is our window for gathering and describing requirements for our work 15:11:48 .. in 2019 is open until Dec 20th - things added after that may not have time for proper consideration. The plan is to 15:12:08 .. have materials submitted for review and discussion prior to our face to face meeting on 31st January in Geneva. 15:12:35 .. I'll add to the AOB list that ITU/EC meeting in case there's any input from this group. 15:12:50 Topic: TTML Profile Registry 15:13:07 Nigel: As Pierre pointed out we have 4 pull requests open. 15:13:28 .. As a point of normal process, we generally allow a 2 week review period after which we assume that if there is no 15:13:37 .. objection then we can merge the pull request. 15:14:12 .. 3 out of the 4 open pulls here need a review before GitHub will allow me to merge them. 15:14:25 github: https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/47 15:14:47 Topic: Add reference to IMSC 1.0.1 tt-profile-registry#47 15:14:49 github: https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/47 15:15:38 Nigel: This has no objections, one approval, so we just need to ask the Editors to merge it. 15:15:49 .. Any objections to doing that? 15:15:59 group: [silence] 15:16:10 RESOLUTION: Editors to merge this Pull Request please. 15:16:14 github-bot, end topic 15:17:05 Topic: Fix the media type in the abstract tt-profile-registry#48 15:17:28 github-bot: https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/48 15:17:29 nigel, Sorry, I don't understand that command. Try 'help'. 15:17:39 github: https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/48 15:18:17 Nigel: This pull request makes one small fix for correctness - if someone can please approve it we can go ahead and 15:18:22 .. request that it be merged. 15:19:14 Pierre: I'm looking at it now. 15:19:35 .. [just double checking it is the correct value] Yes. 15:19:50 .. That one should be non-controversial. 15:20:38 .. [approves] 15:20:41 Nigel: Thank you 15:20:50 .. Any objections to requesting that the Editors merge this? 15:21:01 group: [silence] 15:21:10 RESOLUTION: Editors to merge this Pull Request please. 15:23:28 Topic: Fix #42 and #43 tt-profile-registry#50 15:24:05 github: https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/50 15:26:04 Andreas: I have limited availability to review this over the next week or so. 15:26:21 Pierre: The note about the ebuttm: prefix seems to bind that prefix forever. 15:26:31 Nigel: The intent is merely to explain its usage in this document. 15:26:49 .. The ebuttm:conformsToStandard element is no longer defined by any of the referenced specifications in the table, 15:27:02 .. because EBU moved its definition to a different document, hence the explanatory note. 15:27:10 Pierre: I'll propose some alternative wording. 15:27:12 Nigel: Thank you. 15:30:53 Nigel: If everyone with an interest in this could please look at this pull request and review it that would be very helpful. 15:31:10 SUMMARY: @palemieux to propose a change, all to review 15:31:59 Topic: Reorder tables alphabetically (#51). tt-profile-registry#54 15:32:06 github: https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/54 15:32:24 Nigel: It looks like this one will need to be revisited after the other pull requests have been merged, and may need to 15:32:27 .. be updated further. 15:33:23 SUMMARY: Check this again after the other pull requests have been merged. 15:33:27 github-bot, end topic 15:36:13 Topic: TTWG Future Requirements 15:36:48 Nigel: I see one new requirement issue raised, thanks to IRT (Peter tho Pesch in this case), and he also kindly sent a 15:36:52 .. covering email describing it. 15:37:31 .. Unless anyone especially wants to discuss it right now we don't need to, but thank you for raising it. 15:38:27 .. For the CSS property requirement I plan to document the range of possibilities as I see them and if there is a BBC view 15:38:47 .. about which option to choose then I will document that too. I expect this to lead to a significant amount of discussion 15:38:57 .. and thought for how we get to a good end result. 15:39:48 .. That's because of the overlap between TTML and CSS and the huge range of CSS properties, and also the potential 15:39:50 .. for clashes. 15:40:12 Pierre: Yes, as mentioned last time, it could be that for any CSS property not all of the values can be straightforwardly 15:40:31 .. applied. There may need to be interop or testing in some cases. I really like the idea of converging CSS and TTML, so 15:40:43 .. no objection there, but importing in bulk is not the right way to get to interop. 15:41:03 .. Things we could consider: we could have a document and folk interested in properties could write them down and we 15:41:22 .. can iterate over that document. Whether that is on the Rec track or not is a decision we can make later. At first we 15:41:49 .. should identify which properties are relevant and which are not, and write them down and tests for them. For example 15:41:58 .. anything relating to writing direction is a non-trivial mapping. 15:42:19 .. I can clarify that on the issue - my concern is not so much with adding functionality to TTML especially where there's 15:42:37 .. a desire to do so, it's doing it in bulk without the proper mapping that will ensure interop and specifying it and testing it. 15:42:57 Nigel: Of course one of the notable things about CSS is that in some cases there are CSS properties which are considered 15:43:14 .. to be stable and usable in the annual CSS snapshots, but the specifications are still in Candidate Recommendation, 15:43:38 .. sometimes the reason being a lack of tests. So we should think carefully about our approach to adopting CSS properties 15:43:57 .. that are in the snapshot, therefore widely deployed and used, but CSS tests may not be fully available. 15:44:12 .. It's good to add this to the pile of considerations. 15:44:41 .. Anything else on any of the TTWG requirements or our process or anything else relating to them? 15:44:47 group: [silence] 15:45:10 Topic: F2F meeting and joint F2F meeting with EBU 15:45:26 Nigel: This is a placeholder topic at the moment. Does anyone have any questions or points to raise on this topic? 15:45:42 .. (I don't think there is any development since last week) 15:45:56 group: [nothing to discuss] 15:48:06 Topic: CSS 15:48:15 Nigel: CSS published a WD of CSS Text Level 3 today 15:48:26 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/css-text-3/ CSS Text Level 3 Working Draft 15:49:31 Nigel: I thought from memory this would have our line alignment requirement in, but I can't see it right now. 15:49:51 Topic: AOB 15:50:37 Nigel: I've been invited to present and participate in a panel at the ITU/EC Accessible Europe: ICT for ALL event next week. 15:50:51 .. If anyone wants me to raise or mention anything in my role as Chair here then please let me know. 15:51:07 -> https://www.itu.int/en/ITU-D/Regional-Presence/Europe/Pages/Events/2018/AE/AccessibleEurope.aspx Accessible Europe: ICT for ALL event 15:51:50 .. I plan to talk briefly about subtitles and captions standards convergence and future standards for audio description. 15:52:10 .. This is mainly for info but if you do want to push anything my way then please let me know. 15:53:06 Topic: Meeting close 15:53:24 Nigel: We've hit the end of our agenda for today so let's adjourn. Thank you everyone. [adjourns meeting] 15:53:27 rrsagent, make minutes 15:53:27 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/12/06-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:55:54 s/github-bot, end topic//g 15:56:16 s|github-bot: https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/48|| 15:56:29 s/ nigel, Sorry, I don't understand that command. Try 'help'.// 15:56:37 atai2 has left #tt 15:56:42 rrsagent, make minutes 15:56:42 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/12/06-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:58:28 s/nigel, Sorry, I don't understand that command. Try 'help'.// 15:58:30 rrsagent, make minutes 15:58:30 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/12/06-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:59:08 s|s/ //|| 15:59:10 rrsagent, make minutes 15:59:10 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/12/06-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:59:58 s/nigel, Sorry, I don't understand that command. Try 'help'.//g 16:00:00 rrsagent, make minutes 16:00:00 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/12/06-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:01:05 s/nigel, Sorry, I don't understand that command. Try 'help'.// 16:01:07 rrsagent, make minutes 16:01:07 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/12/06-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:01:34 s|s///g|| 16:01:36 rrsagent, make minutes 16:01:36 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/12/06-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:02:07 s/nigel, Sorry, I don't understand that command. Try 'help'.// 16:02:08 rrsagent, make minutes 16:02:08 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/12/06-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:02:32 s|s/nigel, Sorry, I don't understand that command. Try 'help'.//|| 16:02:33 rrsagent, make minutes 16:02:33 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/12/06-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:03:18 scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 16:03:19 rrsagent, make minutes 16:03:19 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/12/06-tt-minutes.html nigel 17:31:57 Zakim has left #tt