IRC log of dxwgdcat on 2018-11-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:51:30 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dxwgdcat
20:51:30 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2018/11/21-dxwgdcat-irc
20:51:44 [DaveBrowning]
rrsagent, make logs public
20:52:00 [DaveBrowning]
rrsagent, generate minutes v2
20:52:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/11/21-dxwgdcat-minutes.html DaveBrowning
20:53:18 [DaveBrowning]
meeting: DXWG DCAT subgroup teleconference 21 November 2018
20:56:35 [DaveBrowning]
regrets Alasdair Gray, Erik Mannens, Thomas D'Haenens, Lars Svensson, Makx
20:56:43 [DaveBrowning]
rrsagent, generate minutes v2
20:56:43 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/11/21-dxwgdcat-minutes.html DaveBrowning
20:57:22 [DaveBrowning]
regrets+ Alasdair Gray, Erik Mannens, Thomas D'Haenens, Lars Svensson, Makx
20:57:31 [DaveBrowning]
present+
20:57:36 [DaveBrowning]
rrsagent, generate minutes v2
20:57:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/11/21-dxwgdcat-minutes.html DaveBrowning
20:59:16 [DaveBrowning]
agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2018.11.21
20:59:26 [DaveBrowning]
rrsagent, generate minutes v2
20:59:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/11/21-dxwgdcat-minutes.html DaveBrowning
21:02:19 [SimonCox]
SimonCox has joined #dxwgdcat
21:02:20 [RiccardoAlbertoni]
RiccardoAlbertoni has joined #dxwgdcat
21:02:28 [alejandra]
alejandra has joined #dxwgdcat
21:04:12 [RiccardoAlbertoni]
present+
21:05:29 [DaveBrowning]
scribenick: SimonCox
21:05:35 [SimonCox]
rrsagent, make logs public
21:05:38 [DaveBrowning]
scribe: SimonCox
21:06:17 [SimonCox]
Meeting: DCAT 2018-11-22
21:06:32 [SimonCox]
Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2018.11.21
21:06:51 [SimonCox]
chair: DaveBrowning
21:06:51 [alejandra]
+q
21:07:41 [SimonCox]
alejandra: comment from @smrgeoinfo on 2PWD
21:07:51 [DaveBrowning]
ack alejandra
21:07:56 [SimonCox]
... discussion on identifiers
21:08:29 [SimonCox]
... also funder
21:08:48 [alejandra]
https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/529
21:10:44 [SimonCox]
agenda agreed with addition of funders, identifiers
21:11:05 [SimonCox]
minutes of last meeting https://www.w3.org/2018/11/07-dxwgdcat-minutes
21:11:26 [alejandra]
+1
21:11:29 [RiccardoAlbertoni]
+1
21:11:32 [DaveBrowning]
propose: accept minutes of last meeting
21:11:38 [SimonCox]
0 (not present)
21:11:39 [RiccardoAlbertoni]
+1
21:11:40 [DaveBrowning]
+1
21:11:51 [SimonCox]
resolved: accept minutes of last meeting
21:12:08 [SimonCox]
topic: open actions
21:12:15 [SimonCox]
https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/track/actions/open
21:13:17 [AndreaPerego]
AndreaPerego has joined #dxwgdcat
21:14:12 [DaveBrowning]
SimonCox: Qualified relations action 125 - wiki page now in use
21:14:51 [DaveBrowning]
... page has examples, perhaps now is thetime to close the action
21:15:52 [DaveBrowning]
link is here : https://csiro.webex.com/csiro/j.php?MTID=m7f5ece41d26d5e36c16af8c20faadc15
21:17:43 [AndreaPerego]
present+ AndreaPerego
21:18:02 [SimonCox]
present+
21:21:01 [SimonCox]
AndreaPerego: access rights and license need decisionn from WG
21:22:17 [SimonCox]
... clarify that access rights are for access permissions not use permission
21:23:10 [RiccardoAlbertoni]
+q
21:23:32 [DaveBrowning]
ack RiccardoAlbertoni
21:23:55 [AndreaPerego]
About accessRights, relevant issues are https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/160 & https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/59
21:24:42 [DaveBrowning]
q?
21:24:43 [SimonCox]
RiccardoAlbertoni: need to maintain consensus
21:24:57 [SimonCox]
can you summarize the disagreement AndreaPerego ?
21:25:27 [AndreaPerego]
q+
21:25:55 [DaveBrowning]
ack AndreaPerego
21:25:57 [SimonCox]
ack AndreaPerego
21:26:34 [SimonCox]
AndreaPerego: 3 properties in DC - rights, accessRights, licenseoriginal proposal was based on ass
21:26:52 [SimonCox]
s/original proposal was based on ass//
21:27:06 [SimonCox]
original proposal was based on assumption that these could be cleanly separated
21:27:18 [DaveBrowning]
q+
21:27:29 [DaveBrowning]
q-
21:27:30 [SimonCox]
s/original/... original/
21:27:55 [SimonCox]
... discovery use-cases complicate this
21:28:24 [SimonCox]
... particularly if use- and access- are combined in one description
21:28:43 [SimonCox]
... then there is ODRL capability
21:29:00 [SimonCox]
q+
21:29:03 [DaveBrowning]
q+
21:29:09 [DaveBrowning]
ack SimonCox
21:30:23 [SimonCox]
Topic: rights
21:31:21 [AndreaPerego]
Access policies in ODRL: http://w3c.github.io/poe/bp/#example-2-representation-of-access-policies-to-digital-resources
21:31:32 [SimonCox]
the concern is whether all rights are bundled in one property (possibly structured in and ODRL form), or split across multiple DC properties
21:31:47 [SimonCox]
s/and/an/
21:32:16 [SimonCox]
AndreaPerego: iff bundled makes it difficult to select/fileter in discovery scenarios
21:32:23 [SimonCox]
s/iff/if/
21:32:32 [SimonCox]
s/fileter/filter/
21:32:58 [SimonCox]
q+
21:33:25 [DaveBrowning]
ack DaveBrowning
21:33:33 [SimonCox]
AndreaPerego: came across this problem when dealing with lawyers
21:33:56 [SimonCox]
DaveBrowning: has been looking at Google dataset search
21:34:23 [SimonCox]
... is quite rudimentary. Appears that they are only looking at content of 'license' tag
21:34:40 [SimonCox]
... often includes access and 'fair use' provisions
21:35:05 [alejandra]
they only recommend schema:license - https://developers.google.com/search/docs/data-types/dataset
21:35:19 [SimonCox]
... the legacy will be difficult, in DCAT we can make a _recommendation_ but not necessarily widespread adoption
21:35:25 [AndreaPerego]
q+
21:35:32 [DaveBrowning]
ack SimonCox
21:36:40 [DaveBrowning]
SimonCox: Getting adoption may be hard, but some will pay attention particularly where its important and understood
21:38:16 [DaveBrowning]
... need to be careful of creating too much nuance
21:38:38 [DaveBrowning]
ack AndreaPerego
21:39:14 [SimonCox]
AndreaPerego: proposal was primarily a recommendation for people mmoving forward
21:39:27 [AndreaPerego]
OpenAIRE access levels: https://guidelines.openaire.eu/en/latest/literature/field_accesslevel.html
21:39:36 [AndreaPerego]
MDR access rights: http://publications.europa.eu/mdr/resource/authority/access-right/html/access-right-eng.html
21:39:52 [SimonCox]
... the distinction bbetween access and use rights really is made by some users now
21:40:33 [DaveBrowning]
q?
21:40:43 [SimonCox]
q+
21:41:01 [DaveBrowning]
ack SimonCox
21:41:21 [SimonCox]
... people who want to do the right thing do deserve some guidance
21:41:36 [SimonCox]
Is there a suitable text available?
21:42:06 [RiccardoAlbertoni]
q+
21:42:11 [SimonCox]
AndreaPerego: will make a proposal in the issue
21:42:17 [DaveBrowning]
ack RiccardoAlbertoni
21:42:44 [AndreaPerego]
s/MDR access rights/DCAT-AP access rights/
21:42:47 [SimonCox]
RiccardoAlbertoni: will this create a normative provision?
21:43:11 [AndreaPerego]
I think it can be kept informative.
21:44:03 [AndreaPerego]
q+
21:45:26 [SimonCox]
RiccardoAlbertoni: informative parts of document are important. Don't need to be 100% sure about guidelines.
21:45:28 [DaveBrowning]
ack AndreaPerego
21:46:15 [SimonCox]
AndreaPerego: original DCAT did not provide enough examples and guidelines
21:46:24 [SimonCox]
... this led to too much diversity!
21:46:43 [DaveBrowning]
rrsagent, generate minutes v2
21:46:43 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/11/21-dxwgdcat-minutes.html DaveBrowning
21:47:15 [SimonCox]
... in this case we are just clarifying different roles of license and accessRights and why it might be useful for metadata providers to separate the information
21:48:02 [SimonCox]
DaveBrowning: definitely need more guidance within the DCAT doc
21:49:01 [AndreaPerego]
Yep! Thank you
21:49:10 [SimonCox]
action: AndreaPerego to draft proposal and add togithub issue
21:49:10 [trackbot]
Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
21:49:59 [alejandra]
+q
21:50:03 [SimonCox]
topic: Next PWD?
21:50:22 [DaveBrowning]
ack ale
21:50:25 [DaveBrowning]
ack alejandra
21:50:32 [SimonCox]
DaveBrowning: need to commit now if we are to achieve this in Nov/Dec
21:50:58 [SimonCox]
alejandra: do we have enough change?
21:51:23 [AndreaPerego]
q+
21:51:26 [SimonCox]
... very few major issues have been concluded
21:51:50 [SimonCox]
... target (i) rights/license (ii) identifiers (3 related issues)
21:51:56 [DaveBrowning]
ack AndreaPerego
21:52:19 [SimonCox]
AndreaPerego: look at milestone?
21:52:27 [alejandra]
https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/milestone/14
21:52:41 [alejandra]
+q
21:53:23 [DaveBrowning]
ack alejandra
21:54:27 [SimonCox]
alejandra: will split issues between 3pwd milestone and a final milestone
21:54:46 [alejandra]
+1 to Xmas release
21:54:52 [SimonCox]
DaveBrowning: urgesss 3pwd before xmas
21:54:58 [SimonCox]
s/sss/s/
21:56:08 [SimonCox]
action: alejandra to split milestone
21:56:08 [trackbot]
Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
21:56:29 [AndreaPerego]
q+
21:57:38 [DaveBrowning]
ack AndreaPerego
21:57:46 [SimonCox]
... infofmed decision will be possible in January, when real deadlines will be better known
21:57:56 [SimonCox]
s/infofed/informed/
21:59:59 [SimonCox]
AndreaPerego: following threads accross the GitHub issues is challenging - lets foccus on the issues in the milestones
22:00:20 [DaveBrowning]
rrsagent, generate minutes v2
22:00:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/11/21-dxwgdcat-minutes.html DaveBrowning
22:00:23 [SimonCox]
All agree to focus on milestone issues
22:00:28 [DaveBrowning]
rrsagent, generate minutes v2
22:00:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/11/21-dxwgdcat-minutes.html DaveBrowning
22:00:29 [RiccardoAlbertoni]
+q
22:00:36 [DaveBrowning]
ack ric
22:00:38 [DaveBrowning]
ack RiccardoAlbertoni
22:01:28 [SimonCox]
RiccardoAlbertoni: lets try to create agenda with 2 days notice and identify which issues will be actually discussed.
22:01:43 [SimonCox]
... e.g. next call: do identifiers
22:02:33 [DaveBrowning]
rrsagent, generate minutes v2
22:02:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/11/21-dxwgdcat-minutes.html DaveBrowning
22:02:33 [SimonCox]
RRSAgent: draft minutes v2
22:02:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/11/21-dxwgdcat-minutes.html SimonCox
22:03:45 [SimonCox]
s/infofmed/informed/
22:03:50 [SimonCox]
RRSAgent: draft minutes v2
22:03:50 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/11/21-dxwgdcat-minutes.html SimonCox