20:45:34 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dxwg
20:45:34 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2018/11/13-dxwg-irc
20:45:44 <PWinstanley> rrsagent, make logs public
20:45:47 <PWinstanley> present+
20:45:53 <PWinstanley> chair: PWinstanley
20:46:34 <PWinstanley> rrsagent, create minutes v2
20:46:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/11/13-dxwg-minutes.html PWinstanley
20:46:46 <PWinstanley> regrets+ LarsG, Ixchel Faniel, Riccardo
20:48:32 <PWinstanley> meeting: DXWG Plenary
20:49:53 <ncar> ncar has joined #dxwg
20:50:10 <kcoyle> kcoyle has joined #dxwg
20:54:49 <DaveBrowning> DaveBrowning has joined #dxwg
20:57:57 <roba> roba has joined #dxwg
20:59:23 <antoine> antoine has joined #dxwg
21:00:26 <roba> present+
21:00:33 <dsr> dsr has joined #dxwg
21:01:40 <roba> * before we get too deep into details I'd like to foreshadow a proposal to take a week to process all the editorial feedback to improve docs - but I'd like to have one substantive discussion for now on naming on ResourceDescriptor
21:02:51 <SimonCox> SimonCox has joined #dxwg
21:03:39 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> Jaroslav_Pullmann has joined #dxwg
21:04:04 <kcoyle> present+
21:04:09 <kcoyle> scribenick: kcoyle
21:04:11 <Makx> Makx has joined #dxwg
21:04:13 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> present+
21:04:14 <ncar> present+
21:04:28 <antoine> present+
21:04:39 <dsr> present+
21:04:40 <kcoyle> regrets+ LarsG, Ixchel Faniel, Riccardo
21:04:43 <PWinstanley> today's agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2018.11.13
21:04:52 <kcoyle> Topic: Admin
21:04:58 <kcoyle> regrets+ Annette
21:05:06 <PWinstanley> regrets+ AnnetteG
21:05:09 <alejandra> alejandra has joined #dxwg
21:05:18 <DaveBrowning> present+
21:05:20 <alejandra> present+
21:05:42 <SimonCox> present+
21:05:51 <kcoyle> proposed: Approve Nov 6 minutes https://www.w3.org/2018/11/06-dxwg-minutes
21:06:13 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> +1
21:06:14 <alejandra> +1
21:06:16 <PWinstanley> +1
21:06:21 <ncar> +1
21:06:21 <kcoyle> +1
21:06:26 <SimonCox> 0 (not present)
21:06:31 <roba> +1
21:06:51 <DaveBrowning> +1
21:07:04 <antoine> +21
21:07:11 <kcoyle> Resolved: Approve Nov 6 minutes
21:07:12 <antoine> +1
21:07:32 <kcoyle> Topic: open actions
21:07:41 <kcoyle> https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/track/actions/open
21:08:15 <Makx> present+ Makx
21:08:31 <kcoyle> close Action-236
21:08:31 <trackbot> Closed Action-236.
21:08:47 <kcoyle> Actions 238 239 on Nick
21:08:54 <kcoyle> close Action-238
21:08:54 <trackbot> Closed Action-238.
21:09:00 <kcoyle> close Action-239
21:09:00 <trackbot> Closed Action-239.
21:09:13 <kcoyle> 244 on Antoine continues
21:09:26 <kcoyle> 255-256 on Roba done
21:10:26 <kcoyle> close Action-255
21:10:26 <trackbot> Closed Action-255.
21:10:33 <kcoyle> close Action-256
21:10:33 <trackbot> Closed Action-256.
21:10:37 <ncar> * oh, so lines starting '*' are comments!
21:11:05 <DaveBrowning> rrsagent, make logs public
21:11:41 <kcoyle> Topic: FPWDs
21:12:02 <DaveBrowning> rrsagent, generate minutes v2
21:12:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/11/13-dxwg-minutes.html DaveBrowning
21:12:26 <PWinstanley> q?
21:12:28 <roba> q+
21:12:30 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> q+
21:12:35 <PWinstanley> ack roba
21:12:40 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: discussion on email on both drafts have taken place
21:12:59 <kcoyle> roba: have been following this feedback; lots of it constructive; a few substantive issues
21:13:19 <kcoyle> ... but mainly inconsistencies in wording (as per Makx)
21:13:32 <kcoyle> ... suggest going through these over the next week
21:13:54 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: prof-negotiation first
21:14:15 <kcoyle> roba: can have an improved doc for next week
21:14:21 <alejandra> q+
21:14:22 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: need a little more time?
21:14:38 <kcoyle> roba: that's my reading
21:14:44 <PWinstanley> ack Jaroslav_Pullmann
21:15:11 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> Comments on CONNEG: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dxwg-wg/2018Nov/0400.html
21:15:32 <kcoyle> Jaroslav_Pullmann: was busy this week and sent comments just before meeting
21:15:34 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> Profile ontology comments: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dxwg-wg/2018Nov/0402.html
21:16:00 <kcoyle> ... +1 for fpwd, but there are notes to be looked at
21:16:15 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: no show-stopper? jaro: yes, right
21:16:34 <kcoyle> Jaroslav_Pullmann: some definitions, some context and ambiguous statements
21:16:35 <PWinstanley> ack alejandra
21:17:06 <kcoyle> alejandra: thanking the editors; the lesson learned is that we should have done public working drafts more often
21:17:08 <roba> +1
21:17:40 <kcoyle> ... rob mentioned issues that Makx raised. for content negotiation things are ok
21:17:53 <antoine> q+
21:18:07 <Makx> Makx has joined #dxwg
21:18:11 <kcoyle> ... for ontology, need to have github issues so that they can be included in the document so people know we are aware of them
21:18:30 <kcoyle> ... then people can make comments on github
21:18:35 <PWinstanley> q?
21:18:39 <PWinstanley> ack antoine
21:19:17 <kcoyle> antoine: have a comment on both - we've given feedback and comments; I will not object to publication but also give a few more days
21:19:33 <AndreaPerego> AndreaPerego has joined #dxwg
21:19:34 <kcoyle> ... to editors so they can make changes
21:19:47 <alejandra> +q
21:19:56 <PWinstanley> ack alejandra
21:19:57 <AndreaPerego> present+ AndreaPerego
21:19:59 <kcoyle> ... suggest a moratorium on feedback
21:20:19 <antoine> q+
21:20:22 <kcoyle> alejandra: I agree that we should close comments that go into document, but people should make comments at any time
21:20:38 <kcoyle> ... set end to comments that will go into the document
21:20:53 <PWinstanley> ack antoine
21:21:00 <kcoyle> antoine: I understand Alejandra's point and agree, but we should be easy on the editors
21:21:44 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: one possibility: agree to go forward with prof neg FPWD giving editors 4 more days on cleanup
21:22:05 <kcoyle> ... to group: do you think we can make the decision now, so that by next week's meeting it is done?
21:22:22 <kcoyle> ... assuming it passes pubrules
21:22:32 <kcoyle> ... don't want another week of decision-making
21:22:53 <kcoyle> ... just needs polishing, no show-stoppers, and leave that to the discretion of the editors
21:24:07 <kcoyle> Proposed: Agree Prof Neg goes to FPWD with proviso that editors take on board comments made by this meeting time today
21:24:50 <Makx> +1
21:24:52 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> +1
21:24:53 <antoine> +1
21:24:55 <AndreaPerego> +1
21:24:57 <SimonCox> +1
21:24:59 <PWinstanley> +1
21:25:04 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: assume that working with dsr they will complete pub rules work etc.
21:25:12 <kcoyle> +1
21:25:17 <alejandra> +1
21:25:26 <ncar> +1
21:25:30 <DaveBrowning> +1
21:25:35 <roba> +1
21:25:46 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: also have +1 from Riccardo and Lars (in email)
21:25:47 <PWinstanley> note there is +1 from Lars and Riccardo
21:26:02 <kcoyle> Resolved: Agree Prof Neg goes to FPWD with proviso that editors take on board comments made by this meeting time today
21:26:12 <DaveBrowning> rrsagent, generate minutes v2
21:26:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/11/13-dxwg-minutes.html DaveBrowning
21:26:16 <AndreaPerego> Riccardo +1: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dxwg-wg/2018Nov/0389.html
21:26:24 <roba> q+
21:26:28 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: Now discuss profOnt -same questions and issues
21:26:49 <PWinstanley> ack roba
21:26:57 <roba> https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/release/dcat-ap/11
21:27:07 <kcoyle> roba: distinction between the thing and its distribution, like the DCAT-AP -
21:27:20 <AndreaPerego> Lars +1: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dxwg-wg/2018Nov/0380.html
21:27:26 <kcoyle> ... issue is what to call a distribution in a profile
21:27:26 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:27:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/11/13-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:27:49 <AndreaPerego> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2018.11.13
21:27:50 <kcoyle> ... various suggestions - resource descriptor, rules, etc. Other ideas?
21:27:52 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:27:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/11/13-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:28:00 <Makx> q+
21:28:13 <antoine> q+
21:28:14 <kcoyle> ... there are lots of things that aren't rules (documentation, guidance)
21:28:23 <PWinstanley> ack Makx
21:28:25 <kcoyle> ... need a name for the class
21:28:32 <alejandra> what about ProfileImplementation?
21:28:41 <PWinstanley> ack antoine
21:28:48 <kcoyle> Makx: why not call it a distribution?
21:28:51 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> q+
21:28:51 <alejandra> +q
21:29:09 <AndreaPerego> +1 to Makx
21:29:16 <kcoyle> roba: two issues: 1-debate about information equivalence for distributions, and in profiles they are not equivalent
21:29:33 <alejandra> -1 to distribution
21:29:35 <kcoyle> ... 2-resources like guidance documents do not feel like distributions of a profile
21:29:37 <alejandra> q-
21:29:50 <ncar> -1 to Resource Descriptor == Distribution (it's not a distribution of the Profile)
21:30:16 <roba> +1 to it being an issue and run with as is..
21:30:18 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: problem with nomenclature could be a waste of time now - can the document indicate that we don't have a set term yet?
21:30:19 <ncar> I can create an issue for this and place it in the doc
21:30:25 <kcoyle> ... allows us to move on
21:30:31 <PWinstanley> q?
21:30:35 <PWinstanley> ack Jaroslav_Pullmann
21:30:35 <AndreaPerego> alejandra, ncar, I think this is one of the issue to be sorted out, but for 2PWD.
21:30:36 <antoine> q+
21:30:54 <roba> * too quiet Jaro ?
21:31:24 <kcoyle> Jaroslav_Pullmann: similar concern; profiles are not same as datasets
21:31:24 <PWinstanley> q?
21:31:58 <kcoyle> ... sentences were hard to read because dense; need to do some rewording. Is a profile a profile of a standard or of data?
21:32:08 <AndreaPerego> q+ to suggest we focus first on the decision on whether PROF should go out as FPWD
21:32:14 <alejandra> +q
21:32:21 <PWinstanley> ack antoine
21:32:22 <roba> profile "constrains" one or more standards
21:32:34 <Makx> q+
21:32:46 <kcoyle> antoine: This would be one of my main comments; we used distribution as one possible word for naming
21:32:54 <AndreaPerego> +1 to antoine
21:33:07 <kcoyle> ... this issue will require more discussion than we can do before FPWD - make note in document and move on
21:33:24 <PWinstanley> ack AndreaPerego
21:33:25 <Zakim> AndreaPerego, you wanted to suggest we focus first on the decision on whether PROF should go out as FPWD
21:33:36 <PWinstanley> ack alejandra
21:33:36 <ncar> Isseu for Resource descriptor class naming created and flagged as 2PWD: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/573
21:33:36 <kcoyle> AndreaPerego: same comment; first decide on FPWD
21:33:47 <roba> I raised it as the most substantive non-editorial issue
21:34:12 <kcoyle> alejandra: don't want to stop FPWD but ResourceDescriptor is too confusing; it would be better to change to Implementation
21:34:24 <ncar> I will put isse 573 in the doc
21:34:35 <kcoyle> ... but ok to go with putting a very obvious issue so that we  make it obvious
21:34:39 <PWinstanley> q?
21:34:42 <PWinstanley> ack Makx
21:35:18 <antoine> for the record the two words we've used in the post-its at F2F were Distribution and Publication
21:35:22 <kcoyle> Makx: current text of the document is confusing, but we will get questions that come from the way it is written
21:35:46 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: can we take a few days to clean up some bits of the document
21:35:49 <alejandra> great ncar - maybe we should move to issue 573 the comments under about the name that are in the issue https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/404
21:36:14 <kcoyle> Makx: the main problem is the use of the word "resource" throughout the document, meaning different things in different sections
21:36:23 <kcoyle> ... maybe editors can fix that over the next few days
21:36:31 <roba> q+
21:36:45 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: do you think this needs so much work that it needs to come back for a separate vote?
21:36:48 <kcoyle> Makx: No
21:37:21 <kcoyle> ... I can help over the next few days. The intention of the document is good, but word "resource" confusing
21:37:44 <roba> q-
21:38:06 <ncar> q+
21:38:09 <Makx> +1
21:38:12 <PWinstanley> ack ncar
21:38:14 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: propose: FPWD with proviso that Makx and editors clear up issues used until this meeting time by Friday
21:38:37 <kcoyle> ncar: May not be able to do all of the issues because there are a lot
21:38:38 <alejandra> +q
21:39:00 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: do we get help from Makx and bring it back next Tuesday
21:39:00 <alejandra> q-
21:39:17 <kcoyle> ncar: best help would be pull requests transcribing the comments in email
21:39:22 <roba> q+
21:39:34 <alejandra> +q
21:39:43 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: could you vote +1 by email by next Tuesday?
21:39:48 <PWinstanley> ack roba
21:39:51 <kcoyle> Makx: out Sunday through Thurs
21:40:07 <kcoyle> roba: nick and I could split it up, each taking one document
21:40:37 <kcoyle> ... overhead of putting all comments through as an issue is too much; better to work through comments and making changes
21:40:45 <kcoyle> ... make them into issues if we can't resolve them
21:40:55 <kcoyle> ... use issues for major changes
21:41:00 <PWinstanley> ack alejandra
21:41:33 <kcoyle> alejandra: What are the changes that are absolutely necessary?
21:41:49 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: makx says confusion about resource
21:42:25 <kcoyle> roba: changed names many times, and thus used 'resource' because we haven't firm names
21:42:58 <kcoyle> ... taking that on board is worthwhile; need to be more consistent
21:43:40 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: we can propose to allow editors to work on it; for Makx to work with them regarding 'resource'
21:43:50 <kcoyle> ... to have draft by the end of the week
21:44:08 <kcoyle> ... if satisfies editors and makx we can move it through to FPWD
21:44:16 <kcoyle> q+
21:44:21 <PWinstanley> ack kcoyle
21:46:09 <kcoyle> proposed: agree to move profiles ontology to FPWD with proviso that Makx's issue relating to terms is addressed, and that editors make other changes relating to readability
21:46:12 <Makx> don't need proviso
21:47:06 <kcoyle> agree to move profiles ontology to FPWD and the editors make changes relating to readability
21:47:26 <Makx> +1
21:47:32 <AndreaPerego> s/agree to move profiles ontology to FPWD and the editors make changes relating to readability/proposal: agree to move profiles ontology to FPWD and the editors make changes relating to readability/
21:47:43 <kcoyle> agree to move profiles ontology to FPWD after the editors make changes relating to readability & consistency by end of this week
21:47:48 <Makx> +1
21:47:55 <kcoyle> proposed: agree to move profiles ontology to FPWD after the editors make changes relating to readability & consistency by end of this week
21:48:00 <PWinstanley> +
21:48:03 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> +1
21:48:04 <roba> +1
21:48:04 <DaveBrowning> +1
21:48:06 <kcoyle> +1
21:48:08 <AndreaPerego> +1
21:48:09 <alejandra> +1
21:48:10 <antoine> 0
21:48:13 <SimonCox> +1
21:48:18 <ncar> +1
21:48:29 <roba> q+
21:48:33 <roba> q-
21:49:12 <kcoyle> Resolved: agree to move profiles ontology to FPWD after the editors make changes relating to readability & consistency by end of this week
21:49:19 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:49:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/11/13-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:49:29 <kcoyle> antoine: my main comments will relate to the model
21:50:12 <AndreaPerego> q+ to make a suggestion on the next steps and publication frequency
21:50:23 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: we all know about soliciting feedback, etc.
21:50:30 <kcoyle> topic: UCR
21:50:33 <PWinstanley> ack AndreaPerego
21:50:33 <Zakim> AndreaPerego, you wanted to make a suggestion on the next steps and publication frequency
21:50:38 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> q+
21:52:06 <kcoyle> AndreaPerego: about profile ontology - next steps and publication frequency. We have many issues to address, many dependencies
21:52:31 <kcoyle> ... at F2F Jeremy talked about having "sprint publications" each with a few issues
21:52:54 <kcoyle> ... suggest that we can decide a small set of issues to solve for the next WD
21:53:33 <PWinstanley> ack Jaroslav_Pullmann
21:53:34 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: make that a slot at the next meeting
21:54:05 <kcoyle> Jaroslav_Pullmann: UCR changes are fine, but some groupings could be reconsidered
21:54:32 <kcoyle> ... still have question whether conneg requirements will remain separate
21:55:20 <kcoyle> antoine: we have tried to include requirements as approved in the G-Doc, and to restructure of the profiles section
21:55:39 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> Link to Antoine's reworking of profile requirements: https://rawgit.com/w3c/dxwg/aisaac-ucr_profile_requirements/ucr/index.html#ProfileRequirements
21:56:01 <kcoyle> ... just received email; think that all requirements should be in UCR document
21:56:43 <kcoyle> antoine: Jaro and I will need to have a discussion first; will bring back to plenary, hopefully next week
21:57:55 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: time to talk about implementation reports? email from Andrea
21:58:33 <kcoyle> AndreaPerego: suggest that we find a space under WG wiki (or github) for implementation reports
21:58:48 <kcoyle> ... this is required for recommendation track
21:59:23 <kcoyle> ... this doesn't get updated after group ends
21:59:34 <ncar> +q
21:59:39 <PWinstanley> ack ncar
22:00:09 <kcoyle> ncar: shacl keeps an updated list of implementations
22:00:54 <kcoyle> AndreaPerego: let's have a page with a list of implementations that can link to implementations
22:01:09 <PWinstanley> rrsagent, create minutes v2
22:01:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/11/13-dxwg-minutes.html PWinstanley
22:01:40 <Makx> Thanks all, and bye
22:01:45 <AndreaPerego> Thanks, bye bye
22:01:48 <alejandra> thanks all! bye
22:01:56 <PWinstanley> bye
22:01:59 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> thanks!
22:02:01 <ncar> thanks, bye
22:02:03 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> present-
22:02:28 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
22:02:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/11/13-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego