14:52:40 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pbgsc
14:52:40 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2018/11/02-pbgsc-irc
14:52:49 <dauwhe> invite zakim #pbgsc
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14:53:00 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
14:53:00 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Steering Committee Telco
14:53:10 <ivan> Date: 2018-11-02
14:56:26 <dauwhe> present+
14:56:33 <jyoshii> present+
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14:58:30 <ivan> present+
14:58:31 <laudrain> in vacation but still present+
14:58:38 <ivan> present+ daihei
14:58:41 <laudrain> present+
14:59:00 <ivan> present+ ralph
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15:00:05 <Ralph> present+
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15:00:18 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
15:00:24 <ivan> chair: luc
15:00:47 <ivan> scribenick: laudrain
15:00:48 <liisamk> present+
15:00:53 <ivan> chair: liisamk
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15:01:11 <tzviya> present+
15:01:12 <ivan> present+ RickJ
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15:01:32 <ivan> present+ Bill_Kasdorf
15:01:44 <ivan> present+ george
15:01:56 <laudrain> Topic: Recap where we are relative to discussions at TPAC and email discussions
15:02:00 <jeff> present+ jeff
15:02:01 <George> present+ George
15:02:05 <Bill_Kasdorf> * thanks for letting me know. I was just sitting here quietly in a silent room--no idea where noise was coming from
15:02:53 <laudrain> wendyreid: blog post
15:03:01 <tzviya> https://t.co/HWFXkhVEsv
15:03:33 <laudrain> wendyreid: 2 days very productive
15:03:37 <garth> garth has joined #pbgsc
15:03:37 <Ralph> -> https://www.w3.org/blog/2018/11/publishing-at-tpac-2018/ Wendy's blog
15:03:50 <garth> present+ Garth
15:03:57 <Ralph> s/blog/blog post "Publishing at TPAC 2018"
15:04:00 <laudrain> … use case minimal viable procduct
15:04:12 <laudrain> … boundaries defined
15:04:21 <Rachel> present+
15:04:30 <laudrain> … i18n, JSON-LD and shemas
15:04:48 <laudrain> .. 2nd day ; what to do with EPUB 3.2
15:05:08 <laudrain> … agreement bring EPUB 3.2 on REC Track, in  the PWG
15:05:32 <laudrain> … still working on WP, and PWP for audiobooks
15:05:43 <dauwhe> q?
15:05:46 <laudrain> … push EPUB4 later
15:05:54 <dauwhe> q+
15:05:57 <tzviya> q+
15:06:17 <laudrain> liisamk: CG working on testing, build the features set for testing
15:06:39 <George> q+
15:06:56 <ivan> ack dauwhe
15:06:56 <laudrain> Dave: possibility to move EPUB3.2 to REC Track
15:07:24 <laudrain> … address the pub industry,
15:07:30 <laudrain> … quesiton on ISO
15:07:54 <laudrain> Tzviya: rewrite the charter to make this possble
15:08:17 <laudrain> … one proposal is to bring PEUB 3.2 in the PWG
15:08:24 <laudrain> … what happens to WP
15:08:51 <laudrain> … doing WP as a living standard , and addres audoiobooks and comics
15:09:02 <laudrain> … presnet business needs
15:09:17 <laudrain> … make spec by modules
15:09:29 <laudrain> q?
15:09:32 <tzviya> q-
15:09:34 <laudrain> ack tzviya
15:09:49 <dauwhe> q+
15:10:04 <laudrain> Geirge: epubtest.org, will it be used?
15:10:43 <laudrain> Dave: devouple any effort for testing EPUB 3.2 testing from epubtest.org
15:10:45 <Rachel> +1 dauwhe
15:10:57 <tzviya> +1 dauwhe
15:11:00 <laudrain> … general strucutre is not what we need for this effotrt
15:11:03 <Rachel> s/devouple/decouple
15:11:16 <laudrain> George: heither for a11y
15:11:20 <dauwhe> q?
15:11:23 <dauwhe> ack george
15:11:25 <dauwhe> ack dauwhe
15:11:47 <laudrain> Liisa: XWP as a living standard
15:11:54 <dauwhe> q+
15:11:58 <laudrain> … audiobook as a module
15:12:21 <jeff> ack ra
15:12:36 <tzviya> q+
15:12:41 <laudrain> Ralph: interested in Tzviya proposal of continuously evolving standard
15:12:50 <laudrain> … « evegreen standard »
15:13:02 <jeff> q+
15:13:12 <laudrain> … very important to describe what it means
15:13:24 <garth> q+
15:13:32 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:13:59 <laudrain> … cautions to use living standard before providing definition
15:14:12 <Ralph> s/use/use the term
15:14:38 <Ralph> s/before/without
15:14:48 <laudrain> Dave: that idea ha evolve from browser providing some implementation
15:14:52 <jeff> q-
15:15:00 <laudrain> … not sure it applies to WP
15:15:13 <wendyreid> ack dauwhe
15:15:37 <laudrain> Tzviya: the goal of the evergreen is to constantly updating std
15:16:04 <laudrain> … suggestion some specific for audiobook, comics
15:16:19 <laudrain> … publish modules and in the future WP
15:16:20 <wendyreid> ack tzviya
15:16:23 <Ralph> ["modules" -- ala CSS ?]
15:16:27 <Bill_Kasdorf> q-
15:16:58 <ivan> q?
15:16:58 <laudrain> Garh: concept evergreen for WP dosn’t work, but headstart on audiobook
15:16:59 <ivan> q+
15:17:05 <ivan> ack garth
15:17:23 <dauwhe> q+
15:17:30 <laudrain> … copy in a profile for audiobook, comics, that form the longer term WP dev
15:17:39 <laudrain> … agree with tzviya
15:17:59 <laudrain> Ivan: running ahead in details
15:18:15 <laudrain> … not yet decided: what we do with EPUB3.2
15:18:25 <laudrain> … if it goes to REC or not
15:18:28 <liisamk> q+
15:18:34 <liisamk> ack ivan
15:18:45 <laudrain> … whatever model we use is a detail
15:19:05 <laudrain> … 3.2 REC yes or no is to be decided
15:19:39 <laudrain> Dave: WP work with audiobook, manga and such: concerns to move with those in WP context
15:19:56 <laudrain> … make decison with impacts
15:20:10 <wendyreid> q+
15:20:19 <jeff> q+
15:20:24 <laudrain> … the need for today’s will it be the global WP need ?
15:20:25 <George> q+
15:20:29 <dauwhe> ack dauwhe
15:20:29 <garth> ack dauwhe
15:20:31 <garth> ack liisamk
15:21:04 <laudrain> Liisa: We have a lot of work to do to let everyone know on TPAC discussions
15:21:32 <wendyreid> q-
15:21:33 <laudrain> … moving on testing and epubcheck to get transparencey on features implemented or not
15:21:47 <laudrain> … people nervosu on what willl change
15:22:00 <laudrain> Jeff: recognize Dave’s concern
15:22:20 <laudrain> … but teh best place to discuss is in the WG itself
15:22:37 <laudrain> … These are tech issues not SC
15:22:38 <dauwhe> +1 to jeff
15:22:41 <laudrain> +1
15:22:43 <garth> +1
15:22:45 <jeff> ack je
15:22:45 <laudrain> q?
15:22:46 <garth> q?
15:22:47 <wendyreid> +1
15:22:53 <garth> ack George
15:22:54 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to Jeff
15:23:04 <laudrain> George: the audiobook spec as a WP is fine,
15:23:07 <wendyreid> q+
15:23:24 <laudrain> … but real need is to have audiobooks doawloadable
15:23:37 <dauwhe> q+
15:23:46 <laudrain> … concernd by the packaging aspect
15:23:54 <laudrain> q?
15:24:01 <garth> q+
15:24:27 <dauwhe> q-
15:24:34 <garth> q-
15:24:40 <laudrain> wendyreid: for the packaging, no solution today , PWP in the end,
15:25:03 <liisamk> q+
15:25:10 <liisamk> ack wendyreid
15:25:11 <laudrain> … still closer from WP than from 3.2, that’s for the WG to decide
15:25:21 <laudrain> … agree for the packaging issue
15:25:38 <ivan> q+
15:25:41 <laudrain> liisamk: role for the BG to play in requiremetns?
15:25:49 <garth> ack liisamk
15:26:07 <laudrain> wendyreid: need for BG input for users and implementers
15:26:17 <George> +1 to needing BG input on audio books.
15:26:23 <laudrain> … talk to APA to get information
15:26:55 <laudrain> Ivan: back to original thoing, tech question is for the WG
15:27:22 <laudrain> … what is the next step?
15:27:36 <laudrain> … how we decide to go for a REC track
15:27:51 <laudrain> … chartering will no be easy
15:28:22 <laudrain> … how do we do to get there?
15:28:24 <laudrain> q+
15:28:35 <liisamk> ack ivan
15:28:45 <laudrain> … REC track has to be answered asap
15:29:12 <Ralph> Luc: we identified two parallel tasks
15:29:26 <Ralph> ... questions on features of EPub 3.2, testing, bug gathering
15:29:40 <Ralph> ... collect everything we know about EPUB 3.2 issues
15:30:02 <Ralph> ... it will be necessary if we go REC track to have this
15:30:17 <Ralph> ... and it will be useful to the community even if we do not go REC track
15:30:49 <Ralph> ... we can work on this in the Community Group in parallel with work on rechartering the WG
15:30:56 <ivan> q+
15:31:03 <ivan> ack laudrain
15:31:08 <Ralph> ... what becomes PWP, EPUB4; to be addressed in a new charter
15:31:51 <Ralph> ... I have the impression that the TPAC conversations lead to the possibility of working in parallel
15:32:05 <RickJ> q+
15:32:07 <laudrain> Ivan: I almost agree
15:32:14 <liisamk> ack ivan
15:32:22 <laudrain> … starting now on testing 100% ok
15:32:43 <laudrain> … whatever happen, it will be good to do it now
15:33:12 <laudrain> … problem on chartering process, it will modifiy the how WG will operate
15:33:49 <laudrain> … doing that makes sense only if there is a clear will for the community for this to happen
15:34:12 <laudrain> … need a stronger statement from the BG
15:34:51 <laudrain> … unconfortable, mailing list dicussion don’t seem to bring concensus on this, personal reaction
15:35:16 <RickJ> I will call back in.... GTM just crashed
15:35:25 <laudrain> q?
15:36:18 <RickJ> back on queue
15:36:21 <laudrain> Jeff: it seems to me there was a consensus
15:36:21 <RickJ> q+
15:36:55 <laudrain> … WG scale of deliveries with diffrerent time scales make sens
15:37:41 <laudrain> … point of ivan for a clear signal from th BG, that 3.2 on REC track is a priority
15:37:47 <Ralph> [... and will benefit the Web by @@ ]
15:38:05 <laudrain> … I agree with Ivan, the meeting on Tuesday of th BG
15:38:23 <laudrain> … if the BG says it solves business needs
15:38:33 <laudrain> … then it’s a go
15:39:27 <laudrain> RickJ: read the TPAC minutes, very excited, 3.2 potenttial to provide great stabitlity
15:39:40 <laudrain> … change to make people stop EPUB2,
15:39:56 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to RickJ
15:40:02 <laudrain> … very ordelerly process to move WP
15:40:21 <laudrain> … need to convince the industry to get there
15:40:31 <laudrain> … very positive direction
15:40:54 <liisamk> q?
15:41:01 <laudrain> … I do agree that discussion until now was ok, but stucked in details
15:41:06 <RickJ> ack RickJ
15:41:08 <laudrain> q+
15:41:10 <Bill_Kasdorf> and addressing the details are technical issues, which is the WG's role
15:42:09 <Ralph> Luc: the BG hasn't yet officially said it supports EPUB 3.2 on the Rec track
15:42:16 <dauwhe> q?
15:42:19 <dauwhe> ack laudrain
15:42:37 <Ralph> ... we need to bring the vision of the publishing industry; we have to let them think about this
15:42:43 <Ralph> ... present the pros and cons
15:43:03 <Ralph> ... we are aware that some issues need to be solved but the general view is positive
15:43:25 <Ralph> ... the idea is for the BG to present this path as positive and gather reactions
15:43:33 <Ralph> ... do a call for consensus
15:44:29 <tzviya> q+ to propose we put together a document to present to the BG
15:44:33 <laudrain> Liisa: the next BG call will present pros and cons
15:44:50 <laudrain> … discusiion showed what is worring some of us
15:44:59 <ivan> q+
15:45:02 <dauwhe> q+
15:45:04 <laudrain> … what is the timing for EPUB3.2
15:45:23 <liisamk> ack tzviya
15:45:23 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to propose we put together a document to present to the BG
15:45:24 <laudrain> tzviya: good idea for a docuemtn for pros and cons
15:45:42 <laudrain> … in general with spec, TR
15:46:05 <laudrain> … wehn peibcheck will be available, EPUB3.2 will start to be used
15:46:08 <George> q+
15:46:18 <laudrain> … part of the testing phase
15:46:20 <laudrain> +1
15:46:23 <liisamk> ack ivan
15:46:52 <laudrain> Ivan: W3C work with REC, last phase work is often on details
15:47:30 <laudrain> … when we go to a CR, the tech work ahs been done, now the testing has to start
15:47:31 <liisamk> q+
15:47:54 <laudrain> … tech job on 3.2 is doen, we need to go one testing as it is,
15:48:09 <laudrain> … not the intention to do somethoing new:
15:48:33 <laudrain> Dave: precedent in W3C for a CG report to go to REC track
15:48:49 <laudrain> … need to clear that it is a stage in the journey
15:49:03 <laudrain> … not something new, but not tie our hand
15:49:16 <laudrain> … keep pn principle on iteroperability
15:49:26 <laudrain> s/pn/on/
15:49:26 <liisamk> ack dauwhe
15:49:36 <liisamk> ack George
15:49:38 <laudrain> George: +1 to Dave
15:49:48 <laudrain> … start testing in CG asap
15:50:09 <laudrain> … bring that body of knowledge with us when we goi to REC Track
15:50:14 <dauwhe> q?
15:50:17 <dauwhe> ack lii
15:50:22 <dauwhe> q+
15:50:34 <liisamk> ack dauwhe
15:50:38 <laudrain> Liisa: Makoto argument, soemething pulled out when we go to REC Track
15:50:57 <laudrain> Dave: extremely confidnet to find implentation for all
15:51:12 <laudrain> … theoritical argument more than practical
15:51:18 <laudrain> q?
15:51:18 <Bill_Kasdorf> almost by definition, if people have implemented features that means they will NOT be removed
15:51:33 <Rachel> q+
15:52:51 <Bill_Kasdorf> lots of work in Japan as well
15:53:05 <liisamk> ack Rachel
15:53:33 <laudrain> Rachel: google doc with couple of lines for contact to reach organisation
15:53:47 <wendyreid> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iAGhd99aVhXAUCQwITWZwAHARQbnSet9IUFTj_DbqdM/edit just in case
15:53:59 <laudrain> … staying in constting contact to everyone one
15:54:33 <laudrain> … sencouraging ti use the spreadsheets to personal relatiosn to companies
15:54:44 <laudrain> q+
15:55:20 <liisamk> ack laudrain
15:55:40 <laudrain> q?
15:55:43 <dauwhe> q?
15:56:26 <laudrain> RickJ: donation form coresource and message to all coresource customers
15:56:32 <laudrain> … also form Ingram
15:56:39 <laudrain> s/form/from/
15:57:08 <laudrain> Liisa: TPI convesation, high level convesation
15:57:26 <laudrain> … send a draft here
15:57:32 <RickJ> I will be on a flight during the BG call on Tuesday, and unable to join.
15:58:01 <laudrain> … BG actively engaging in mail this week, advantage to partenr with local org
15:58:29 <laudrain> … APL in Japan, EDRLab in Europe
15:58:40 <laudrain> … also with BISG
15:59:45 <ivan> q+
16:00:05 <laudrain> Liisa: draft something before the BG call
16:00:23 <George> q+
16:00:28 <laudrain> Ivan: the first question is the 3.2 question
16:00:51 <laudrain> Liisa: also on audio for the WG
16:01:03 <laudrain> Ivan: secondary question
16:01:05 <liisamk> ack Ivan
16:01:11 <liisamk> ack George
16:01:25 <laudrain> George: BG call to emphasize how to fill the business needs
16:01:33 <laudrain> +1
16:02:39 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:02:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/11/02-pbgsc-minutes.html ivan