IRC log of tpac on 2018-10-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

06:35:42 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #tpac
06:35:42 [RRSAgent]
logging to
06:35:55 [dsr]
Meeting: TPAC2018
06:36:07 [dsr]
Topic: CEO’s introduction
06:36:12 [dsr]
scribenick: dsr
06:36:34 [phila]
phila has joined #tpac
06:36:38 [dsr]
Jeff Jaffe introduces the session and notes that we have a record number of attendees
06:36:40 [ktoumura]
ktoumura has joined #tpac
06:36:59 [dsr]
Today is for unstructured geeking following a short plenary
06:37:24 [dsr]
We’re going to hear from the TAG (W3C’s technical architecture group) on topical issues
06:37:40 [dsr]
rrsagent,set logs public
06:38:05 [azaroth]
azaroth has joined #tpac
06:38:08 [dsr]
We thank our sponsor
06:38:08 [jtandy]
jtandy has joined #tpac
06:38:24 [vivien]
vivien has joined #tpac
06:38:27 [anssik]
anssik has joined #tpac
06:38:28 [dsr]
We encourage you all to give us feedback on the meeting
06:38:29 [NicJansma]
NicJansma has joined #tpac
06:38:36 [Youngsun]
Youngsun has joined #tpac
06:38:40 [JunGamo]
JunGamo has joined #tpac
06:38:46 [Xiaolu]
Xiaolu has joined #tpac
06:38:46 [DaveB]
DaveB has joined #tpac
06:38:57 [dan]
dan has joined #tpac
06:38:57 [dom]
dom has joined #tpac
06:38:59 [anne_thyme]
anne_thyme has joined #tpac
06:39:03 [krit]
krit has joined #tpac
06:39:08 [dsr]
Jeff notes W3C’s code of conduct - let’s be on best behavior
06:39:17 [kajimoto]
kajimoto has joined #tpac
06:39:24 [Guest80]
Guest80 has joined #tpac
06:39:26 [colin]
colin has joined #tpac
06:39:27 [Guest80]
Guest80 has left #tpac
06:39:28 [martin]
martin has joined #tpac
06:39:28 [Guest80]
Guest80 has joined #tpac
06:39:36 [hiroshiota]
hiroshiota has joined #tpac
06:39:37 [dsr]
At 9:30 we will have the break out sessions building
06:40:14 [dsr]
I am fire up with the enthusiasmy ou all have.
06:40:23 [dsr]
06:40:51 [dsr]
Jeff shows a slide listing areas of innovation for the Web
06:41:46 [dsr]
and a second slide on an impressive pipeline of further innovations
06:42:56 [dsr]
This year we have a new way of measuring productivity …
06:43:11 [dsr]
Jeff shows a slide of GitHub commits across W3C
06:43:31 [arnog]
arnog has joined #tpac
06:43:33 [dsr]
something between a 1000 and 1500 commits a month
06:44:10 [kaz]
kaz has joined #tpac
06:44:46 [dsr]
You can see increased activity as groups approach deadlines
06:45:14 [dsr]
Next year’sTPAC will be in Fukouka in southern Japan from 16-20 October 2019
06:45:34 [dsr]
06:45:47 [dsr]
06:45:55 [dsr]
Jeff introduces the TAG
06:46:00 [horiuchi]
horiuchi has joined #tpac
06:46:11 [phila]
16 Oct 2019 is a Wednesday. TPAC 2019 runs Wed - Sun??
06:46:53 [tantek]
tantek has joined #tpac
06:47:31 [kaz]
[note that TPAC 2019 will be held in September (Sep 16-20)]
06:47:36 [kaz]
please see also:
06:47:50 [dsr]
06:47:52 [phila]
Thanks kaz
06:50:32 [dap]
dap has joined #tpac
06:51:26 [dsr]
Dan introduces the TAG and explains its role
06:51:58 [dsr]
He explains how to open an issue with the TAG on GitHub
06:52:34 [dsr]
Each issue is assigned to a member of the TAG to manage
06:53:23 [dsr]
more info at and
06:54:35 [dsr]
We do regular developer outreach, locally where we are holding face to face meetings
06:54:56 [dsr]
We have an election coming up and three seats up for grabs
06:55:22 [dsr]
Please encourage your W3C Advisory Committee to vote in these elections
06:56:05 [dsr]
We recognise we have a diversity problem, so we encourage you to nominating a more diverse range of people
06:56:19 [dsr]
06:56:37 [dsr]
It is important that the TAG represents the diversity of the Web as a whole
06:57:07 [dsr]
Lukasz introduces the security and privacy questionaire
06:57:42 [rachelandrew]
rachelandrew has joined #tpac
06:57:42 [dsr]
I am a new member of the TAG and a security and privacy researcher
06:57:54 [dsr]
and an advisor to the Red Cross
06:58:00 [jeff]
jeff has joined #tpac
06:58:42 [dsr]
It can be difficult to see how a web API feature can be abused to spy on your privacy
06:59:07 [dsr]
He cites the battery API and CSS max-blend mode
06:59:22 [satakagi_]
satakagi_ has joined #tpac
06:59:37 [dsr]
Sometimes precision matters, e.g. incognito detection with the Web payment API
07:00:02 [dsr]
We’ve found the perfect solution - more paperwork. :-)
07:00:26 [dsr]
Short video from Monte Python’s the Holy Grail
07:00:38 [dsr]
07:01:28 [dsr]
We need more clarity and context during reviews of security and privacy aspects of new APIs
07:01:55 [dsr]
The new process: privacy by design
07:02:17 [dsr]
Please seek review early
07:02:36 [dsr]
Best recommendations in 5 seconds
07:02:38 [Jean-Gui]
Jean-Gui has joined #tpac
07:03:01 [xueyuan]
xueyuan has joined #tpac
07:03:03 [dsr]
you could drop the feature, or sanitise the data handled, and make a privacy assessment.
07:04:19 [dsr]
You need to consider regulatory aspects - and whether it is a good idea
07:05:16 [dsr]
We don’t want the security and privacy questionnaire to be a tick box exercise, we want you to think carefully before answering
07:05:58 [ericlaw]
ericlaw has joined #tpac
07:06:39 [dsr]
We hope to finalise the questionnaire next year
07:07:05 [vkuntz]
vkuntz has joined #tpac
07:07:19 [vkuntz]
07:07:36 [martin]
martin has joined #tpac
07:07:42 [dsr]
Dan opens the floor to questions
07:08:34 [dsr]
Please queue at the microphones
07:09:20 [dsr]
Question: can you tell us what the time commitment is for people on thr TAG?
07:09:34 [dsr]
Dan: a weekly one hour call and 4 face to face meetings
07:10:00 [dsr]
we don’t generally meet during TPAC as we use the time to interact with other groups
07:11:06 [dsr]
It’s about 20% of your working time roughly speaking
07:11:27 [dsr]
We use WebRTC for our calls, so we can see each other
07:12:20 [dsr]
David Singer (Apple): please tell us about the tensions in best practices
07:12:23 [tink]
tink has joined #tpac
07:13:03 [dsr]
… and trends
07:13:11 [tomoyuki]
tomoyuki has joined #tpac
07:13:40 [edent]
edent has joined #tpac
07:13:54 [dsr]
Answer: one example is better fidelity for Web APIs and a focus on WebIDL and new JavaScript features e.g. classes and promises and encouraging their use
07:14:42 [dsr]
These days we’re looking at streams and the best ways to deal with them
07:14:47 [hirata]
hirata has joined #tpac
07:15:52 [dsr]
We’re working up to a thorough review of HTML and revising features from the ancient past
07:15:54 [vagner]
vagner has joined #tpac
07:16:33 [dsr]
We’re trying to explain how the higher level of the web platform works underneath
07:16:35 [nigel]
nigel has joined #tpac
07:17:30 [mfoltzgoogle]
mfoltzgoogle has joined #tpac
07:17:30 [dlieberman]
dlieberman has joined #tpac
07:17:48 [dsr]
We’re seeing a lot of ideas coming from Google, which is great, but we want to see more from a diverse range of people
07:18:26 [dsr]
Dan: we want to better support people who find it hard to attend face to face meertings
07:18:42 [tomoyuki]
tomoyuki has left #tpac
07:18:58 [amy]
amy has joined #tpac
07:19:20 [dsr]
PhilArcher (GS1): is it time to update the TAG’s architecture of the Web which came out in 2004 and is looking rather dusty
07:19:42 [sangchul]
sangchul has joined #tpac
07:19:46 [tomoyuki]
tomoyuki has joined #tpac
07:19:47 [hyojin]
hyojin has joined #tpac
07:19:52 [jtandy]
jtandy has joined #tpac
07:19:52 [dsr]
Dan: we considered that and decided instead to focus on the design principles dociument instead
07:19:55 [caribou]
caribou has joined #tpac
07:20:00 [dlieberman]
dlieberman has joined #tpac
07:20:30 [gildas]
gildas has joined #tpac
07:20:49 [rego]
rego has joined #tpac
07:21:05 [dsr]
The Web is more agile these days and we can address things in streams rather than a big tome
07:21:11 [horiuchi]
horiuchi has joined #tpac
07:21:36 [horiuchi]
horiuchi has joined #tpac
07:22:05 [Roy]
Roy has joined #tpac
07:22:07 [horiuchi]
horiuchi has joined #tpac
07:22:17 [dsr]
Ian Jacobs (W3C staff): web page sniffing is used in payments for risk assessments, how should bona fide needs be addressed
07:22:45 [glazou]
glazou has joined #tpac
07:23:32 [dsr]
Answer: we have no power and can only offer advice. We encourage designers to expose their thinking including what they’re seeking to achieve, along with an awareness of the potential for abuse
07:24:18 [dsr]
Alex: we have a very very rich platform (Dan shows the Unsanctioned Web Tracking document)
07:24:40 [hirata]
hirata has joined #tpac
07:24:49 [dsr]
We want to make sure people make good advice and for browser innovation to improve privacy
07:25:06 [dsr]
s/make/can get/
07:25:15 [Roy]
Roy has joined #tpac
07:25:32 [phila]
07:26:03 [rachelandrew_]
rachelandrew_ has joined #tpac
07:26:16 [dsr]
Question: can the TAG comment on how well we’re doing in respect to privacy etc.
07:26:44 [dsr]
Dan: it is quite clear that the Web has had big impact on society, not all good
07:27:33 [dsr]
We have a tussle between browsers that disable features for improved privacy and companies that rely on those features for good business reasons
07:27:54 [dsr]
We as a community need to come together to discuss and reach a broad consenus
07:28:45 [mweksler]
mweksler has joined #tpac
07:29:28 [mweksler]
mweksler has joined #tpac
07:29:28 [dsr]
You can steal something, e.g. someone’s bag, but there are consequences under the law. This is also true for the Web and we need a balance and to ensure that overall the Web is positive for society
07:30:17 [dsr]
The Web has a great deal of functionality but isn’t exposed to web developer, the question is how to safely expose them to bring parity with native apps
07:30:28 [Roy]
Roy has joined #tpac
07:31:10 [dsr]
Question: is there much work on consulting end users in respect to API and feature design?
07:32:21 [dsr]
Alex: we are indeed interested in encouraging this, and one approach includes a focus on early review of proposed ideas and showing that they really solve end users real needs
07:32:34 [tantek]
"more science and less guessing"
07:33:26 [dsr]
We get feedback by attending conferences and giving talks
07:33:47 [sangchul]
sangchul has joined #tpac
07:34:08 [dsr]
We encourage developers to write down why they did what they did as this is often missing from specifications
07:34:31 [dsr]
The lengthy discussion in WGs will be forgotten unless the record is made
07:34:47 [dsr]
07:34:57 [nigel]
07:35:44 [dsr]
We tend to review specs twice and find it really useful to have an account of the changes
07:36:26 [dsr]
Question: in our group we like the idea of a technical spec and an explainer spec
07:37:03 [dsr]
is this a pattern worth exploring more
07:37:31 [dsr]
(some technical details about role of URL handlers)
07:38:43 [dsr]
Some discussion about best practice and the need for further discussion
07:39:21 [dsr]
Question: what about domain specific languages such as math, music chemistry etc.
07:39:45 [dsr]
We we just convert everything to SVG or can we preserve the semantic info?
07:40:01 [notabene]
s/We we/Do we
07:40:10 [dsr]
Dan: Web Components are a useful building block
07:40:44 [dsr]
Alex: we’ve just issued guidance on how to use them effectively
07:41:25 [dsr]
it would be a shame to lose the domain semantics
07:42:24 [dsr]
Previously you had to wait on browers to integrate support, but now with WEeb Components you can do this yourselves
07:42:35 [dsr]
Dan thanks everyone
07:42:51 [dsr]
Topic: Unconference Planning
07:43:00 [dsr]
Coralie explains …
07:43:38 [dsr]
The sessions start at 11am and continue after lunch. We’ve prepared a grid for time slots and meeting rooms
07:44:56 [dsr]
Session proposers write down their idea on a stick note and put it on the matrix board
07:45:23 [dsr]
We can then move meetings around to reduce conflicts
07:45:43 [dsr]
Lunch is level -2. Breaks are between 3 and 4 one level up
07:46:02 [dsr]
rrsagent, make minutes v2
07:46:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate dsr
07:47:00 [MarkVickers]
MarkVickers has joined #tpac
07:48:23 [tomoyuki]
tomoyuki has joined #tpac
07:48:29 [PWinstanley]
PWinstanley has joined #tpac
07:50:13 [rachelandrew]
rachelandrew has joined #tpac
07:53:03 [jtandy]
jtandy has joined #tpac
07:54:48 [JohnJansen]
JohnJansen has joined #tpac
07:56:46 [horiuchi]
horiuchi has joined #tpac
07:57:23 [DaveB]
DaveB has left #tpac
08:02:35 [horiuchi]
horiuchi has joined #tpac
08:02:49 [Roy]
Roy has joined #tpac
08:02:56 [Karen]
Karen has joined #tpac
08:04:21 [JunGamo]
JunGamo has left #tpac
08:04:24 [mfoltzgoogle]
mfoltzgoogle has joined #tpac
08:05:10 [takio]
takio has joined #tpac
08:06:10 [jtandy]
jtandy has joined #tpac
08:08:47 [phila]
phila has joined #tpac
08:10:33 [Roy]
Roy has joined #tpac
08:10:34 [Karen_]
Karen_ has joined #tpac
08:16:03 [Roy]
Roy has joined #tpac
08:16:32 [MarkVickers]
MarkVickers has joined #tpac
08:18:07 [dom]
dom has joined #tpac
08:20:21 [rachelandrew]
rachelandrew has joined #tpac
08:22:34 [horiuchi]
horiuchi has joined #tpac
08:26:21 [mweksler]
mweksler has joined #tpac
08:30:01 [dsr]
dsr has joined #tpac
08:30:49 [npdoty]
npdoty has joined #tpac
08:33:27 [horiuchi]
horiuchi has joined #tpac
08:37:36 [horiuchi]
horiuchi has joined #tpac
08:40:45 [naomi]
naomi has joined #tpac
08:46:04 [horiuchi]
horiuchi has joined #tpac
08:46:44 [tomoyuki]
tomoyuki has joined #tpac
08:47:19 [ericlaw]
ericlaw has joined #tpac
08:47:54 [naomi]
naomi has joined #tpac
08:49:12 [naomi_]
naomi_ has joined #tpac
08:50:53 [rachelandrew]
rachelandrew has joined #tpac
08:52:17 [Karen]
Karen has joined #tpac
08:54:04 [Karen_]
Karen_ has joined #tpac
08:54:30 [Roy]
Roy has joined #tpac
08:56:05 [tink]
tink has joined #tpac
08:57:00 [anssik]
anssik has joined #tpac
08:59:21 [horiuchi]
horiuchi has joined #tpac
08:59:45 [takio]
takio has joined #tpac
09:02:14 [dsinger]
dsinger has joined #tpac
09:02:18 [jeff]
jeff has joined #tpac
09:02:46 [horiuchi_]
horiuchi_ has joined #tpac
09:03:10 [tink]
IRC channel for the Accessibility Tree session is #AccTree
09:04:03 [toshiakikoike]
toshiakikoike has joined #tpac
09:04:07 [sangchul]
sangchul has joined #tpac
09:04:11 [magnus]
magnus has joined #tpac
09:04:15 [dom]
dom has joined #tpac
09:05:58 [jtandy]
jtandy has joined #tpac
09:06:30 [azaroth]
azaroth has joined #tpac
09:07:00 [Hexcles]
Hexcles has joined #tpac
09:07:14 [Karen]
Karen has joined #tpac
09:07:22 [phila]
phila has joined #tpac
09:07:54 [frodek]
frodek has joined #tpac
09:10:15 [Karen_]
Karen_ has joined #tpac
09:12:01 [dom]
#webmachinelearning for machinelearning
09:12:36 [sangchul_]
sangchul_ has joined #tpac
09:13:23 [Karen_]
Karen_ has joined #tpac
09:14:35 [Brian_R]
Brian_R has joined #tpac
09:14:38 [astearns]
#css for CSS WG - the Community with testing
09:14:50 [jtandy]
jtandy has joined #tpac
09:16:55 [nigel]
nigel has joined #tpac
09:23:35 [satakagi_]
satakagi_ has joined #tpac
09:24:05 [sangchul_]
sangchul_ has joined #tpac
09:24:29 [Guest80]
Guest80 has joined #tpac
09:25:11 [SofianeB]
SofianeB has joined #tpac
09:31:52 [naomi]
naomi has joined #tpac
09:34:43 [tantek]
tantek has joined #tpac
09:47:23 [tanya]
tanya has joined #tpac
09:50:25 [Guest80]
Guest80 has joined #tpac
09:59:07 [jacques]
jacques has joined #tpac
10:04:02 [horiuchi]
horiuchi has joined #tpac
10:05:58 [simonstey]
simonstey has joined #tpac
10:09:37 [naomi]
naomi has joined #tpac
10:12:29 [naomi_]
naomi_ has joined #tpac
10:13:01 [phila]
phila has joined #tpac
10:23:34 [mweksler]
mweksler has joined #tpac
10:30:44 [horiuchi]
horiuchi has joined #tpac
10:31:04 [naomi]
naomi has joined #tpac
10:32:23 [mweksler]
mweksler has joined #tpac
10:38:26 [mweksler]
mweksler has joined #tpac
10:51:22 [tanya]
tanya has joined #tpac
10:53:11 [Brian_R]
Brian_R has joined #tpac
10:56:07 [Karen]
Karen has joined #tpac
10:58:39 [Karen_]
Karen_ has joined #tpac
11:02:10 [frodek]
frodek has joined #tpac
11:02:37 [Guest80]
Guest80 has joined #tpac
11:03:29 [toshiakikoike]
toshiakikoike has joined #tpac
11:03:47 [dom]
dom has joined #tpac
11:03:51 [tanya]
tanya has joined #tpac
11:03:52 [dan]
dan has joined #tpac
11:06:23 [jtandy]
jtandy has joined #tpac
11:06:56 [tomoyuki]
tomoyuki has joined #tpac
11:07:13 [phila]
phila has joined #tpac
11:07:37 [satakagi_]
satakagi_ has joined #tpac
11:07:40 [Karen]
Karen has joined #tpac
11:08:22 [tantek]
tantek has joined #tpac
11:08:27 [dsinger]
dsinger has joined #tpac
11:09:05 [horiuchi]
horiuchi has joined #tpac
11:09:58 [horiuchi]
horiuchi has joined #tpac
11:10:09 [Karen_]
Karen_ has joined #tpac
11:12:36 [dsr]
dsr has joined #tpac
11:14:08 [Orphis]
Orphis has joined #tpac
11:15:24 [nigel]
nigel has joined #tpac
11:16:30 [mweksler]
mweksler has joined #tpac
11:17:12 [takio]
takio has joined #tpac
11:18:44 [Brian_R]
Brian_R has joined #tpac
11:18:58 [sangchul]
sangchul has joined #tpac
11:28:06 [Karen]
Karen has joined #tpac
11:31:50 [glazou]
glazou has joined #tpac
11:32:13 [Karen_]
Karen_ has joined #tpac
11:37:16 [takio_]
takio_ has joined #tpac
11:42:37 [naomi]
naomi has joined #tpac
11:44:00 [Karen]
Karen has joined #tpac
11:45:03 [Karen_]
Karen_ has joined #tpac
11:45:25 [mweksler]
mweksler has joined #tpac
11:46:57 [cobrien_]
cobrien_ has joined #tpac
11:47:35 [horiuchi]
horiuchi has joined #tpac
11:49:03 [naomi_]
naomi_ has joined #tpac
11:50:04 [dsr]
dsr has joined #tpac
11:52:13 [naomi]
naomi has joined #tpac
11:53:38 [nigel]
nigel has joined #tpac
11:57:20 [Guest80]
Guest80 has joined #tpac
12:01:13 [sangchul]
sangchul has joined #tpac
12:01:31 [dsinger]
dsinger has joined #tpac
12:01:54 [horiuchi]
horiuchi has joined #tpac
12:01:56 [jtandy]
jtandy has joined #tpac
12:02:52 [takio]
takio has joined #tpac
12:03:59 [horiuchi_]
horiuchi_ has joined #tpac
12:04:25 [toshiakikoike]
toshiakikoike has joined #tpac
12:04:27 [tomoyuki]
tomoyuki has joined #tpac
12:04:52 [Hexcles]
Hexcles has joined #tpac
12:05:26 [horiuchi_]
horiuchi_ has joined #tpac
12:05:33 [naomi]
naomi has joined #tpac
12:05:43 [dom]
dom has joined #tpac
12:06:14 [tink]
tink has joined #tpac
12:07:07 [JohnJansen]
JohnJansen has joined #tpac
12:07:09 [sangchul]
sangchul has joined #tpac
12:07:36 [horiuchi_]
horiuchi_ has joined #tpac
12:08:08 [toshiakikoike]
toshiakikoike has joined #tpac
12:08:47 [gsnedders]
web-platform-tests discussion in #testing
12:09:21 [tantek]
tantek has joined #tpac
12:11:17 [horiuchi]
horiuchi has joined #tpac
12:11:21 [Karen]
Karen has joined #tpac
12:13:19 [satakagi_]
satakagi_ has joined #tpac
12:15:00 [t_homma]
t_homma has joined #tpac
12:15:03 [horiuchi]
horiuchi has joined #tpac
12:17:45 [DonDiego]
DonDiego has joined #tpac
12:18:09 [horiuchi_]
horiuchi_ has joined #tpac
12:18:21 [tink]
tink has left #tpac
12:29:01 [wseltzer]
12:36:13 [Karen]
Karen has joined #tpac
12:38:27 [Karen_]
Karen_ has joined #tpac
12:42:28 [SofianeB]
SofianeB has joined #tpac
12:48:18 [tanya]
tanya has joined #tpac
12:53:55 [xueyuan]
xueyuan has joined #tpac
12:56:35 [horiuchi]
horiuchi has joined #tpac
12:58:13 [sangchul]
sangchul has joined #tpac
12:59:27 [naomi]
naomi has joined #tpac
13:00:03 [horiuchi]
horiuchi has joined #tpac
13:01:37 [mweksler]
mweksler has joined #tpac
13:05:34 [Guest80]
Guest80 has joined #tpac
13:07:24 [xueyuan]
xueyuan has joined #tpac
13:10:53 [JohnJansen]
JohnJansen has joined #tpac
13:11:36 [vmpstr]
vmpstr has joined #tpac
13:14:19 [horiuchi]
horiuchi has joined #tpac
13:15:06 [Guest80]
Guest80 has joined #tpac
13:16:51 [sangchul]
sangchul has joined #tpac
13:17:50 [Kelvin]
Kelvin has joined #tpac
13:19:53 [frodek]
frodek has joined #tpac
13:22:16 [mweksler]
mweksler has joined #tpac
13:24:04 [mweksler]
mweksler has joined #tpac
13:27:30 [t_homma]
t_homma has joined #tpac
13:28:31 [Karen]
Karen has joined #tpac
13:28:48 [tomoyuki]
tomoyuki has joined #tpac
13:29:09 [frodek]
frodek has joined #tpac
13:29:13 [horiuchi_]
horiuchi_ has joined #tpac
13:29:34 [dsinger]
dsinger has joined #tpac
13:29:43 [horiuchi]
horiuchi has joined #tpac
13:31:17 [nigel]
nigel has joined #tpac
13:32:25 [nigel]
personalization in #personalization
13:33:22 [dsr]
dsr has joined #tpac
13:33:23 [toshiakikoike]
toshiakikoike has joined #tpac
13:33:26 [phila]
phila has joined #tpac
13:34:34 [satakagi_]
satakagi_ has joined #tpac
13:34:52 [sangchul]
sangchul has joined #tpac
13:35:55 [Hexcles]
Hexcles has joined #tpac
13:37:52 [tantek]
tantek has joined #tpac
13:42:45 [Guest80]
Guest80 has joined #tpac
13:46:29 [chrwilliams]
chrwilliams has joined #tpac
13:48:29 [JohnJansen]
JohnJansen has joined #tpac
13:51:10 [chrwilliams]
chrwilliams has joined #tpac
13:57:18 [satakag__]
satakag__ has joined #tpac
13:59:38 [tanya]
tanya has joined #tpac
14:07:04 [xueyuan]
xueyuan has joined #tpac
14:09:15 [xueyuan]
xueyuan has joined #tpac
14:10:04 [frodek]
frodek has joined #tpac
14:10:54 [glazou]
glazou has joined #tpac
14:16:25 [sangchul]
sangchul has joined #tpac
14:26:10 [dsr]
dsr has joined #tpac
14:29:06 [horiuchi]
horiuchi has joined #tpac
14:30:41 [mweksler]
mweksler has joined #tpac
14:32:00 [horiuchi_]
horiuchi_ has joined #tpac
14:34:04 [satakagi_]
satakagi_ has joined #tpac
14:41:31 [Bert]
Bert has joined #tpac
14:43:23 [horiuchi]
horiuchi has joined #tpac
14:44:20 [dsinger]
dsinger has joined #tpac
14:45:55 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #tpac
14:49:13 [MarkVickers]
MarkVickers has joined #tpac
14:50:21 [mweksler]
mweksler has joined #tpac
14:50:45 [nigel]
nigel has joined #tpac
14:51:36 [Bert]
Topic: Break-out reports
14:51:45 [Bert]
scribenick: Bert
14:51:54 [nigel_]
nigel_ has joined #tpac
14:52:10 [mweksler]
mweksler has joined #tpac
14:52:20 [Bert]
Coralie introduces the session. Epxlains the procedure. Those who held sessions are invited to come to the stage.
14:52:50 [Bert]
(People are gathering on stage.)
14:53:06 [Bert]
Reports should be 1-2 minutes, not more.
14:53:27 [Bert]
AnnevK: contributing to HTML session.
14:53:45 [Bert]
... Concl is you need 2 implementers on board,
14:53:50 [mweksler]
mweksler has joined #tpac
14:54:02 [Bert]
... Contribution need to standards-quality.
14:54:09 [colin]
colin has joined #tpac
14:54:10 [Bert]
s/to/to be/
14:54:54 [Bert]
Philip: Web Platform test. MS has built an online test tool.
14:55:16 [Bert]
Mats: ML for the Web: Kick of incubation
14:55:32 [Bert]
... High interest. All major browsers there. 60 people in the room.
14:55:50 [Bert]
... Proof of concept in Chromium showed that it can be done.
14:56:09 [Bert]
... Findings from this impl. are that performance is good, close to native.
14:56:15 [Bert]
... Optimizations possible.
14:56:29 [Bert]
... Can be a polyfill on top of WebGL.
14:56:41 [Bert]
... Leaning to exposing both high and low level API.
14:56:55 [Bert]
... First ftf on Friday pm.
14:57:22 [Bert]
Peter: Maps for HTML: Value of lowering barriers to sptial info on the Web.
14:57:26 [Bert]
... Gave a demo.
14:57:35 [Bert]
14:57:54 [Bert]
... Talked about collab between geo-spatial and W3C communities.
14:57:59 [Bert]
... Polyfills.
14:58:10 [Bert]
... Progressive enhancements of those.
14:58:17 [naomi]
naomi has joined #tpac
14:58:34 [Bert]
... SVG mapping community collab started at this TPAC.
14:58:50 [Bert]
Dan: Web and networks:
14:59:00 [Bert]
... followup on a workshop 5 months ago.
14:59:09 [Bert]
... Wanted to bounce off ideas.
14:59:32 [Bert]
... Exposing hints between appls and networks, optimize without impacting privacy.
14:59:47 [Bert]
... We stated som learned lessons.
14:59:55 [Bert]
... Figure out the principles.
15:00:02 [Bert]
... Mutually beneficial.
15:00:09 [Bert]
... Cheat-proof
15:00:26 [Bert]
... Emphasis on hints rather than strong controls.
15:00:32 [Bert]
... Exploring interest.
15:00:39 [Bert]
... Planning an IG.
15:00:40 [atai]
atai has joined #tpac
15:00:59 [Bert]
Dom: MDN:
15:01:18 [Bert]
... We had people form project advisory board of MDN.
15:01:34 [Bert]
... Discussed reslts of collab between the various partners.
15:01:52 [Bert]
... Discussed input from participnts in the breakout.
15:02:07 [Bert]
... I18n and a11y to be added to MDN
15:02:15 [Bert]
... Workflow of documentation.
15:02:22 [hirata]
hirata has joined #tpac
15:02:25 [Ralph]
Ralph has joined #tpac
15:02:25 [Bert]
... Approach me if you want to know more.
15:03:02 [Bert]
Mado@@): Decentralize IDs:
15:03:12 [jtandy]
jtandy has joined #tpac
15:03:14 [Bert]
... Showed presentation, use cases, next steps.
15:03:26 [Bert]
... Workshop at MS in December
15:03:45 [Bert]
... Propisng a WG early next year.
15:04:04 [Bert]
@@@: Verifiable credentials.
15:04:06 [xueyuan]
15:04:17 [Bert]
... What other standards do we need to create.
15:04:27 [Bert]
... How to improve our messaging.
15:04:36 [Bert]
... Does Blockchain solve our pbs.
15:04:49 [xueyuan]
s/@@@/Joe Andrieu
15:05:13 [Bert]
Cyril: Make a communtiy at W3C or join an existing one.
15:05:19 [tomoyuki]
tomoyuki has joined #tpac
15:06:22 [Bert]
@@@@: [Sorry, scribe doesn't understand what the topic is]
15:06:51 [Bert]
... Proposal is a new feature to set a header to allow browser to create new toplevel browing context.
15:07:03 [Bert]
... We figuredout a way for level-2 protection.
15:07:23 [Bert]
... So that web site cannot load resources from another.
15:07:50 [Bert]
fantasai: Spec-editing best practices:
15:07:59 [Bert]
... 1) define the overall model.
15:08:12 [Bert]
... 2) Start with an overview, high-level
15:08:29 [Bert]
... Both overall for spec and per section.
15:08:50 [Bert]
... Example from CSS is how borders interact with tables.
15:09:04 [Bert]
... 3) Keep examples close to the definitions.
15:09:25 [Bert]
.. 4) Use illustrations and diagram generously, but not as a replacement for normative prose.
15:09:59 [Bert]
... 5) Possible modes are constraint-based and @1-based spec writing.
15:10:25 [toshiakikoike]
toshiakikoike has joined #tpac
15:10:25 [Bert]
... 6) Esptablish convention for writign about things.
15:10:48 [Bert]
... 7) Read tou spec form top to bottom to see if your local edits still make sense in the whole.
15:11:10 [Bert]
... 8) Review the table of contemnts regularly, see if it makes sense.
15:11:24 [Bert]
...9) section titles should be evacative.
15:11:57 [Bert]
... 10) Generous with sub-headings, so you can point to bits of the spec.
15:12:32 [Bert]
... *) Use preprocessor, source contriol, link checker, and respond to all comments
15:12:47 [Bert]
... Invite the commenter to respond to your answer.
15:12:57 [tomoyuki]
tomoyuki has joined #tpac
15:13:18 [phila]
phila has joined #tpac
15:13:25 [Bert]
15:13:43 [Bert]
... I shared my program.
15:14:00 [Bert]
... We discussed how to send haptic info and vision sinultaneaously
15:14:06 [Bert]
... Discussed methods.
15:14:15 [Bert]
... Still research.
15:14:30 [Bert]
... Not ready for commercial use.
15:14:36 [Bert]
... Media IG
15:14:55 [Bert]
Charles: Personalization:
15:15:10 [Bert]
... Goal is to adapt content much more than is currently supported.
15:15:25 [Bert]
... Some people need content without numbers, e.g.,
15:15:37 [Bert]
... Suggestion for attribute "purpose"
15:15:39 [xueyuan]
15:15:49 [Bert]
... Could also be helpful for others such as Publishing WG.
15:15:53 [Ian]
Ian has joined #tpac
15:16:05 [Bert]
... There ay be other options, such as Web Components.
15:16:15 [Bert]
... NExt step s are to explore them.
15:16:25 [Bert]
... We will ask the TAG for a review of our explainer.
15:16:44 [Bert]
Mark: Improving spoken presentations:
15:16:55 [Bert]
... IMS global learning consortium.
15:17:11 [Bert]
... Education space, students facing mispronounced content.
15:17:27 [Bert]
... Content eventually ends up in HTML, so we need support for HTML.
15:17:44 [Bert]
... We have SSML, we had CSS speech, which went mute.
15:18:00 [Bert]
... We will take disussion to task force.
15:18:22 [Bert]
... Will here be voice fonts, like Web fonts?
15:18:29 [Bert]
15:18:45 [Bert]
@3: Spatial navigation
15:18:54 [Bert]
... Gathered some feedback
15:19:02 [Bert]
... We currently consider 4 ways.
15:19:09 [Bert]
... But need to consider more.
15:19:30 [Bert]
... Friday at 10 there will be another session
15:20:06 [Bert]
@4: Implemented voice communication surveys
15:20:15 [Bert]
... Launched commercial surveys
15:20:29 [Bert]
... About 5 million uses expected in 2019
15:20:34 [wseltzer]
15:20:40 [Bert]
... Sign language recognition
15:21:08 [Bert]
... Community group.
15:21:17 [Bert]
@5: Fair use
15:21:23 [wseltzer]
15:21:30 [Bert]
... Use cases
15:21:47 [Bert]
... Conclusion is to I will contact experts for more uses cases.
15:21:54 [wseltzer]
15:21:59 [Bert]
Jasoon: DNT:
15:22:06 [xueyuan]
s/Bobby_Tung:/Baoping Chen:
15:22:12 [wseltzer]
15:22:14 [Bert]
... WG ended, CR will become a Note.
15:22:30 [Bert]
... Try to find privacy-friendly alternatived
15:22:41 [Bert]
... W3C still cares.
15:22:55 [Bert]
... Web advertising CommGroup continues.
15:23:05 [Bert]
Michael: Domain-specific languages:
15:23:19 [Bert]
... Examples: Math, Chemistry.
15:23:32 [Bert]
... They need semantics and a11y.
15:23:40 [Bert]
... Houdini may help.
15:23:57 [Bert]
... Use cases from publishing showed convergence.
15:24:06 [Bert]
... Horizontal review breakout:
15:24:21 [Bert]
... Challenges, how hard it is, how long it takes.
15:24:35 [Bert]
... At what time to do the review.
15:24:45 [Bert]
... Github workflow issues
15:24:48 [Bert]
... Self-review
15:25:15 [Bert]
@6: Quick apps:
15:25:30 [Bert]
... Combine potability and native efficiency
15:25:41 [Bert]
... API and memory footprint
15:25:49 [xueyuan]
s/@6:/Zhiqiang Yu:
15:25:51 [Bert]
... We looked at details, uses cases, motivation
15:26:07 [Bert]
... This topic raised a lot of interest.
15:26:19 [Bert]
... Make more capabilities in quick apps.
15:26:39 [Bert]
... Push for XR integration
15:27:00 [Bert]
... AI, low and high level
15:27:21 [Bert]
... High level, such as face recognition.
15:27:31 [Bert]
... New community group recently formed
15:27:48 [Bert]
... Another potential step is work with Web packaging
15:27:56 [sugiuchiH]
sugiuchiH has joined #tpac
15:28:04 [Bert]
... Easier distibution of app
15:28:12 [Bert]
... Welcome all collaborations
15:28:33 [Bert]
@7: Web packaging:
15:28:42 [wseltzer]
15:28:50 [Bert]
... Lots of different groups showed interest, e.g., ebooks.
15:29:01 [Bert]
... How can people get involved?
15:29:15 [Bert]
... Web packaging currently designed for short, caching.
15:29:36 [Ian]
scribenick: Ian
15:29:39 [Bert]
... Can probably make some other use cases.
15:29:49 [Ian]
David Singer: Speaking with my AB hat on.
15:30:05 [Ian]
...we had a lively session on evergreen standards
15:30:16 [Ian]
...apparently we need to do registries here (at W3C)
15:30:28 [Ian]
...we wondered whether we could use evergreen standards for maintenance
15:30:37 [Ian]
...also wondered whether we need IPR commitments for those specs
15:30:57 [Ian]
...there's also a question about review...tension between early review v. infrequent review; we want to bridge gaps
15:31:11 [Ian]
...we can use tooling / automation to our advantage (e.g., diffs)
15:31:19 [Ian] steps - there is a wiki page for use cases and aspirations
15:31:29 [Ian]
...we will take discussion into the Process CG that EVERYONE SHOULD JOIN!!
15:32:05 [Ian]
Eric Eggert: We did a talked about WAI resources
15:32:16 [Ian]
15:32:22 [Ian]
...evaluation tools
15:32:28 [Ian]
...WCAG quick references
15:32:34 [Ian]
...we also redesigned the WAI Website
15:32:46 [Ian]
...we also plan to revamp our business case for accessibility documentation
15:32:55 [Ian]
...we plan to ask you for translations of these materials.
15:32:55 [mdadas]
mdadas has joined #tpac
15:33:00 [Ian]
..thanks to all (4) who came to my session.
15:33:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Ian
15:33:27 [Ian]
Sandro Hawke: I ran the credit web session. We hate the term "fake news"!
15:33:32 [Ian]
...we typically say "misinformation"
15:33:39 [Bert]
15:33:50 [Ian]
...we had good turnout but some were not there due to Misinformation conference in London
15:34:06 [Ian]
...focus is how people can trust what they find online; how can we help people being misled
15:34:23 [Ian]
...we aim to create an ecosystem of tools that can assist in evaluation of credibility
15:35:00 [Ian]
...e.g., warnings or annotations about content
15:35:00 [Ian]
...someone even suggested (as a joke) spooky music on risky pages
15:35:00 [Ian]
...question in our session on role of browsers in enabling evaluation tools to plug in
15:35:09 [Ian]
...we welcome feedback on our CG report and also our spec
15:35:18 [Ian] steps: We meet Friday this week; please review the stuff at !
15:36:05 [Ian]
Tzvia + Angel: We ran a session with Natasha Rooney on positive work environment and effectives task forces
15:36:15 [jtandy]
jtandy has joined #tpac
15:36:19 [Ian] thing we did was update /Guide with more information useful to chairs; also overhauled it
15:36:26 [Ian]
...there's also a process doc for busy people
15:36:33 [Ian]
..and a chair buddies option available
15:36:45 [Ian]
...there were many suggestions for outreach to members especially for new members
15:36:53 [Ian]
...some suggestions for making specs easier to digest
15:36:56 [Bert]
s/Tzvia + Angel/Tzviya_and_Angal/
15:36:58 [Ian]
...and how to write them
15:37:00 [notabene]
15:37:07 [Ian]
...time zone challenges....
15:37:09 [Bert]
15:37:23 [Ian]
...we welcome participation and suggestions for the working effectiveness task force.
15:37:37 [Ian]
...e.g., internal tooling for GitHub would be welcome if you have internal tools
15:37:57 [Ian]
Angel: Regarding PWE, we have an ombudsman program and plan to improve it
15:38:06 [Bert]
RRSAgent, make minutes v2
15:38:06 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Bert
15:38:17 [notabene]
15:38:24 [Ian]
...we identified two cases from past experience (1) harassment (2) distractions
15:38:44 [Bert]
s/Sandro Hawke/Sandro_Hawke/
15:38:47 [Ian] deal with these complicated cases we think the current ombudspeople need to be more empowered.
15:38:57 [Ian]
...we also plan to call them "ombuddies"
15:39:05 [Bert]
s/Eric Eggert/Eric_Eggert
15:39:19 [Ian] suggestion we heard was to publish a calendar feed to help people with calendaring
15:39:20 [Bert]
s/David Singer/David_Singer
15:39:37 [Bert]
s/Zhiqiang Yu/Zhiqiang_Yu
15:39:55 [Ian]
...there is an ongoing review of the code of conduct document; we want some review from diverse cultural perspectives to avoid it being misused.
15:40:03 [Bert]
s/Baoping Chen/Baoping_Chen
15:40:28 [Ian]
...we also need some additional cultural sensitivities (e.g., around assertion of one's expertise)
15:40:36 [Bert]
15:40:50 [Ian]
...we would also like to increase support (including monetarily) to help people participate who would not otherwise be able to.
15:41:03 [Bert]
s/Joe Andrieu/Joe_Andrieu
15:41:04 [Ian]
...we have a PWE CG; please join, and give feedback on the revised Code of Conduct
15:41:21 [Ian]
Rob_Smith: I chaired a session on video metadata cues supporting geolocation
15:41:23 [Bert]
15:41:40 [Ian]
...I am leading work on video/geolocation sync ... we have identified requirements for emerging markets
15:41:48 [Ian]
...see @@ for demos in action
15:41:51 [dsinger]
dsinger has joined #tpac
15:42:08 [Ian]
...question for the breakout session was whether we could piggyback the html text tract channel for geolocation metadata
15:42:16 [Ian]
...or do we need a special kind of cue for maps
15:42:22 [Ian]
...we plan to resolve this in the WICG
15:42:30 [Ian]
...please join us there.
15:42:45 [Ian]
..many thanks to the media and entertainment group and others who contributed to the discussion
15:43:01 [Ian]
...we'll report the results of this session to the Spatial Data IG and the CG. Thanks!
15:43:25 [Ian]
Francois_Daoust: Gaming on the Web! In 2011 W3C organized a workshop where we identified a number of technical gaps:
15:43:27 [Ian]
- orientation
15:43:30 [Ian]
- game pad
15:43:36 [Ian]
- pass params by reference cross workers
15:43:46 [Ian]
...led to the games CG
15:43:46 [horiuchi]
horiuchi has joined #tpac
15:43:57 [Ian]
..that CG continued to work on use cases and requirements, which went to WGs.
15:44:11 [Ian]
...good news: the gaps that had been identified have been filled!
15:44:17 [Ian]
...of course things have changed since then
15:44:24 [Bert]
s/ - /... - /
15:44:24 [Bert]
s/ - /... - /
15:44:25 [Bert]
s/ - /... - /
15:44:34 [Bert]
RRSAgent, make minutes v2
15:44:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Bert
15:44:38 [Ian]
...we have more work underway: WebGPU, WebVR...other capabilities emerging to support games on the web
15:44:58 [Ian]
...gamers are a tough audience for specs. They want perfection!
15:45:13 [Ian]
..looking at games is a good way to achieve more "professional" results
15:45:21 [Ian]
...with that in mind, we looked at some remaining gaps
15:45:30 [Ian]
...should we
15:45:35 [Ian]
.... - organize a second workshop?
15:45:36 [Guest80]
Guest80 has joined #tpac
15:45:44 [Ian]
... - revive the CG?
15:45:51 [Bert]
s/ - /... -- /
15:45:51 [Ian] was exciting to see motivated people. Thanks!
15:45:52 [Bert]
s/ - /... -- /
15:45:54 [Bert]
s/ - /... -- /
15:46:04 [Bert]
s/... .../.../
15:46:10 [Bert]
s/... .../.../
15:46:19 [Bert]
RRSAgent, make minutes v2
15:46:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Bert
15:46:29 [Ian]
Kaz_Ashimura: Demos! Come to CSS meeting.
15:47:03 [Bert]
s/- orientation/... - orientation
15:47:11 [Ian]
@@8: Ran a couple of sessions. One was on privacy / fingerprinting. We distinguished "mechanism" from "features exposed". We concluded that the mechanism was not harmful.
15:47:17 [Bert]
s/- game pad/... - game pad
15:47:19 [Ian]
...there's open debate still on the features themselves
15:47:53 [Ian]
...second session on the exposure of resources; we discussed unexposing a couple of features (e.g., subresource timing)
15:47:56 [notabene]
15:48:05 [Ian]
...the conclusion was @@.
15:48:05 [Bert]
RRSAgent, make minutes v2
15:48:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Bert
15:48:11 [Ian]
...but we plan to reconvene shortly.
15:48:32 [Ian]
koalie: Thanks everyone! Next up - a reception from 6:30-9pm in the lunch space.
15:48:39 [Ian]
...thanks also to the scribes.
15:48:41 [Bert]
s/... .../.../
15:48:42 [Ian]
15:48:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Ian
15:48:52 [Ian]
Ian has left #tpac
15:49:31 [Bert]
s/ -- / - /g
15:50:57 [Bert]
s/Kick of /Kick off /
15:51:51 [Bert]
s/som learned/some learned
15:52:21 [Bert]
15:52:39 [Bert]
15:53:05 [Bert]
s/Decentralize ID/Decentralized ID/
15:53:20 [Bert]
15:53:52 [Bert]
s/figuredout/figured out
15:54:21 [Bert]
15:54:47 [Bert]
s/Read tou/Read the
15:55:10 [Bert]
15:55:25 [Bert]
15:56:12 [Bert]
s/There ay be/There may be
15:56:29 [Bert]
s/NExt step s/Next steps
15:57:25 [Bert]
s/: Implemented voice/Implemented voice
15:57:43 [Bert]
s/million uses/million users
15:58:01 [Bert]
s/is to I will/is that I will
15:58:17 [Bert]
15:59:05 [Bert]
16:00:20 [Bert]
s/caching/caching. Can probably make some other use cases./
16:00:38 [Bert]
s/... Can probably make some other use cases.//
16:00:52 [Bert]
RRSAgent, make minutes v2
16:00:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Bert
16:01:34 [Bert]
s/We did a talked/We talked
16:02:34 [Bert]
RRSAgent, make minutes v2
16:02:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Bert
16:09:06 [mweksler]
mweksler has joined #tpac
16:17:18 [naomi]
naomi has joined #tpac
16:21:36 [naomi]
naomi has joined #tpac
16:28:33 [naomi]
naomi has joined #tpac
16:29:15 [atai]
atai has joined #tpac
16:29:16 [naomi]
naomi has joined #tpac
16:33:40 [naomi]
naomi has joined #tpac
16:52:49 [naomi]
naomi has joined #tpac
17:24:44 [naomi]
naomi has joined #tpac
19:11:43 [mweksler]
mweksler has joined #tpac
19:37:07 [horiuchi]
horiuchi has joined #tpac
19:57:18 [Ralph]
Ralph has joined #tpac
20:00:15 [RalphS]
RalphS has joined #tpac
20:32:48 [caribou]
caribou has left #tpac
20:36:35 [vagner]
vagner has joined #tpac
20:44:39 [mweksler]
mweksler has joined #tpac
21:29:06 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #tpac
21:29:30 [Ralph]
rrsagent, bye
21:29:30 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items