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07:05:17 <trackbot> Meeting: Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference
07:05:17 <trackbot> Date: 23 October 2018
07:05:23 <Sharron> present+
07:05:34 <Sharron> Chair: Brent
07:05:46 <notabene> Scribe: notabene
07:05:50 <Sharron> Scribe: Stephane
07:11:05 <Vicki> Vicki has joined #eo
07:16:08 <yatil> Scribenick: notabene
07:21:19 <Chris> present+
07:21:26 <notabene> present+
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07:23:31 <notabene> Topic: Debrief from Monday
07:23:42 <notabene> Vicky: Can we have more detail on WAI guide project?
07:24:20 <notabene> [ Sharron will get details from shadi ]
07:25:53 <notabene> Amanda: We can write a business case about the City of Coburn.
07:26:50 <notabene> Sharron: Yes but we need to maintain vendor neutrality. On the wiki we've got several business cases, and this is a live document, please share.
07:27:15 <notabene> Topic: UI components
07:27:38 <notabene> Brent: We need to figure out where we're out, past issues, moving forward.
07:30:51 <notabene> Sharron: It's not a priority item for now but it could be very useful as people are looking to tutorials for this type of contents.
07:31:48 <notabene> Eric: We can't always say if things are accessible per se because we're vendor-neutral etc., so this is why so far the project is a draft.
07:32:06 <notabene> [ Eric demonstrating the prototypes ]
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07:33:00 <notabene> Chris: Who validates it?
07:33:04 <Sharron> https://www.w3.org/blog/wai-components-gallery/
07:34:04 <notabene> Eric: We would have to rely on someone to check it. We may have a voting system of some kind.
07:35:10 <notabene> Sharron: We're considering creating a kind of "trusted board" to validate the components.
07:36:14 <notabene> ...People with a reputation who would be willing to help.
07:37:26 <notabene> Eric: We still need to define several aspects like level of vetting, quality (expectedly we want it to be very high).
07:38:25 <notabene> ...We propose to manage expectations: submitting a component would go with a full rationale (code was validated etc.).
07:39:28 <notabene> s/Vicky/Vicki
07:40:07 <notabene> Chris: Do we want to spend time on this or on other projects?
07:40:55 <notabene> Eric: If you don't know what you're looking for, you don't know where you can find it. So components can help people find out about accessibility best practices.
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07:41:27 <Chris> http://a11y-style-guide.com/style-guide/
07:41:40 <Chris> https://inclusive-components.design/#components
07:41:46 <notabene> [ Chris pointing to a11y styleguide and Heydon Pickering's Inclusive components ]
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07:43:41 <notabene> Eric: The Tools list is a good example, resource-wise, as people submit and we can keep track of submissions on Github.
07:44:14 <notabene> ...Question is: if we have a vetting process we have to integrate it somehow.
07:44:30 <notabene> ...The WAI Guide funding can help putting up the Components gallery.
07:45:15 <notabene> ...We can have the same approach for Components and Tools.
07:45:49 <notabene> ...A good way to avoid overhaed with submissions is open the process before making it public to proof our process (evaluation, vetting).
07:45:58 <notabene> s/overhaed/overhead
07:46:48 <notabene> ...This will not be a library of components, this will be a list of vetted pointers.
07:48:05 <Chris> another one: http://ebay.github.io/mindpatterns/
07:48:15 <notabene> ...The vendor will have to say how accessible it is, so we want the vendor to describe their component and everything about it.
07:49:25 <notabene> KrisAnne: Sometimes we see people who think they're doing the right thing  but often it's not. Agencies say it is but it's not.
07:50:26 <notabene> ...Vetting system has to be very tight but people are probably better at coding than we are.
07:50:45 <notabene> Eric: We can require submissions to also point to accessibility statements.
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07:53:27 <notabene> Amanda: We have this problem all over the place of people claiming to be accessible, so +1 on the vetting.
07:54:36 <notabene> Brent: Same issue with the Tools list. Have we received feedback on the quality of tools being presented?
07:55:45 <notabene> Eric: Vendors are indicated very clearly, so they're putting their credibility on the line. The way tools are presented does not call for as much evaluation.
07:56:41 <notabene> Sharron: We have to decide if we commit to the Components list and find a way to do it or it's got too many significant problems and we drop it.
07:57:21 <notabene> KrisAnne: We have to think of maintenance too.
07:58:29 <notabene> Amanda: On the one hand I see it as a good starting point, but on the other hand when you look into the Tools list it's very long and I wonder if/how people use the list.
07:59:31 <notabene> Eric: The workload should be OK if it's shared between several people.
08:00:57 <notabene> ...If the submission level is not as good as expected, we can be more strict in the way it's presented to filter out up front.
08:01:18 <notabene> ...I think it can work out.
08:02:02 <notabene> Sharron: It's important fro us to make a decision here and submit it to the group through survey.
08:02:08 <notabene> s/fro/for
08:03:04 <notabene> Eric: We are not in a hurry for this but if funding comes, we can push this project up in the tasks list.
08:04:45 <notabene> ...I propose following resolution: if the project sounds useful we can vote for it to start when we get the funding
08:08:06 <notabene> RESOLUTION: EOWG is commited in pursuing the UI Components list. The project plan for the completion and maintenance of the database will be revisited in January.
08:08:41 <notabene> [ Sharron will add it to the calendar in due time. ]
08:10:15 <Chris> +1
08:10:15 <Sharron> +1
08:10:17 <notabene> +1
08:10:17 <Amanda_M> +1
08:10:23 <Sylvie> +1
08:10:28 <Brent> +1
08:10:47 <Vicki> +1
08:11:18 <yatil> +1
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08:11:42 <Krisanne> +1
08:12:21 <notabene> [ Coffee break ]
08:13:03 <notabene> RRSAgent: draft minutes
08:13:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/10/23-eo-minutes.html notabene
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08:32:08 <Sharron> present+ SteveLee
08:32:18 <Sharron> present+ Jeanne Spellman
08:32:25 <yatil> present?
08:32:32 <notabene> Topic: Discussion with Silver TF
08:32:33 <Sharron> present+ Shawn Lauriat
08:33:03 <notabene> Jeanne: We have 3 prototypes for Silver and we want to test them with users.
08:33:03 <Sharron> presnet+ Ash Harris
08:33:12 <Sharron> present+ Ash Harris
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08:33:26 <yatil> zakim, who is on the phone?
08:33:26 <Zakim> Present: Sharron, Chris, notabene, SteveLee, Jeanne, Spellman, Shawn, Lauriat, Ash, Harris
08:33:32 <notabene> ...Also would like to talk about relationship between EO content and Silver, we want to build it right in.
08:33:42 <yatil> present- Jeanne Spellman Shawn Laureat Ash Harris
08:33:45 <steve> present+ steve
08:33:49 <notabene> ...Also talk about EO contributing to Silver in the long term.
08:34:07 <yatil> present+ JeanneSpellman ShawnLaureat AshHarris
08:34:20 <yatil> zakim, who is on the phone?
08:34:20 <Zakim> Present: Sharron, Chris, notabene, SteveLee, Lauriat, JeanneSpellman, ShawnLaureat, AshHarris
08:34:34 <Brent> Brent has joined #eo
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08:35:45 <notabene> present- ShawnLaureat
08:35:49 <notabene> present+ ShawnLauriat
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08:36:45 <notabene> ...Three prototypes.
08:37:01 <notabene> ...Plan is to compress the structure: Guidelines and Methods.
08:37:25 <Sharron> Scribe: Sharron
08:37:59 <yatil> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1V_nYD27N6kx8gRha0rrdQK8aKyvg7kKXu6rs44We7IU/edit#slide=id.p
08:39:13 <Sharron> Jeanne: Hessite diagram Guidelines -> Tags -> Methods for accomplishing
08:39:44 <Sharron> Shawn: Guideline A will reveal all the methods or can be filtered by tags.
08:41:37 <Sharron> Jeanne: All will be written in plain language. Want to move away from testable to True False statements, have other ways to test (usability, rubrics, disability experience) flexible testing to allow more cognitive rules, etc.
08:42:51 <Sharron> Shawn: tests will apply to Methods and tied much more closely. Generalizable tests meant to apply acorss all types of content and platform become tortured or distorted.
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08:43:32 <Sharron> Jeanne: We want people to move the process earlier, make it more understandable and easier to implement through out the process.
08:43:43 <notabene> s/acorss/across
08:45:04 <Sharron> Shawn: Principles become tags, the SC numbers and levels will go away (A AA AAA) they will go away due to the problems of showhorned in new guidelines as it evolves (don't want to re-number) and people in the know will refer to numbers and keeps those who are not experts out of the conversation.
08:45:10 <notabene> s/through out/throughout
08:45:12 <Sharron> ...also is a menitenance problem.
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08:45:39 <notabene> s/keeps those/keep those
08:46:14 <notabene> s/menitenance/maintenance
08:46:52 <Sharron> ...the structure itself has become a barrier to familiarity. New way of having flat list means new guidance is easily added, new methods on existing guidance, and using principles as tags you can reference both perceivable and operable.
08:47:11 <Sharron> Eric: How can I say what I am testing against? If not 1.1.1?
08:47:33 <Sharron> Jeanne: Will address, let's finish the architecture.
08:47:55 <Sharron> ...this is what it will look like (refers to slide)
08:48:41 <Sharron> ...similar to the QuickRef but coming from the other direction.
08:49:07 <Sharron> Shawn: So far it is entirely placeholder text to leave focus on the architecture.
08:49:52 <Sharron> ...illustrates how the tags/methods could be organziaed and displayed
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08:50:12 <Sharron> Stephane: Any needs for people who want to filter accordint o principles?
08:50:59 <Sharron> ...teaching tool about which method applies to which principle. That many filters can be scary.
08:51:28 <notabene> s/accordint o/according to
08:51:37 <Sharron> Jeanne: Can we work with the data you got from the QuickRef cardsort?
08:51:38 <notabene> s/organziaed/organized
08:52:00 <Sharron> Eric: Will check on the data for that.
08:52:36 <Sharron> Amanda: Pre-filter may be useful
08:53:07 <Sharron> Jeanne: Want enough filter people get to what they need but not so many they are overwhelmed.
08:53:46 <notabene> s/Want enough filter people get/Want enough filter for people to get
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08:55:05 <Sharron> Brent: This is the information prototype and you have also a plain language prototype and a conformance prototype...why?
08:55:29 <Sharron> Jeanne: To separate facilate user testing with separate goals for each.
08:55:48 <notabene> s/To separate facilate/To facilate
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08:56:16 <Sharron> ...EO looked at one of the early prototypes and is still in W3C space for you to look at and play with.
08:56:27 <yatil> https://w3c.github.io/silver/prototypes/PlainLanguage2/SectionHeading.html
08:56:55 <Sharron> ...for this example no way worked on other tabs so I wrote the other tabs and please remember that I am not a plain language editor.
08:57:21 <notabene> s/no way/no one
08:57:35 <Sharron> ...would like to invite EO to contribute in this way, to write the content in our group and then turn it over to a plain language editor in EO.
09:00:39 <Sharron> ...the goal is to use the tabs to orient people to the item, define responsibility, provide guidance, methods, assign points, then develop, test, audit and receive points. The score assigned. Want experts in each area to right content.
09:01:36 <Sharron> ...at this point we think only the guideline will be mormative, the rest will be informative and is much easier to keep current.
09:02:17 <notabene> s/The score assigned./Each method associated with a guideline has a score assigned to it to help Planning.
09:02:24 <notabene> s/mormative/normative
09:02:35 <Sharron> ...we want to embed the video and want EO to think about how you want to be credited, how to handle.
09:03:26 <Sharron> Jeane: The work of EO is so aligned with the goals of Silver, we do not want to re-invent it but to use and provide another way for people to see it.
09:03:42 <Sharron> Eric: Very pwoerful way to deliver the information.
09:03:46 <notabene> s/to use/to use it
09:03:51 <notabene> s/pwoerful/powerful
09:04:17 <Sharron> Jeanne: We are adding more guidelines and want to do user testing and validate that this is the right way to go.
09:04:53 <Sharron> Brent: How to help?
09:05:53 <Sharron> Eric: We have another project kicking off in January to develop curricula. If we can keep this in mind, it will hep.
09:06:03 <notabene> s/hep/help
09:08:03 <Sharron> Jeanne: Would like people to do user testing rounds in the short term. Longer term, will write content in 1st, 2nd quarter of 2019. Would like plain language editors. Once we charter and are an official project, would like to collaborate in continuing to develop the content. Silver participants have a lot of expertise about what should be in the guidelines. Do not have great experience in how to
09:08:04 <Sharron> express it.
09:08:44 <Sharron> Brent: It fits very well with our current operational mode. We have learned alot about how to express ourselves effectively.
09:08:53 <notabene> s/alot/a lot
09:09:00 <notabene> Scribe: Stephane
09:10:15 <notabene> Jeanne: [diagram] Silver conformance could look like individual methods (originally called "guidance measures"), tests, user testing and whatever metrics appropriate.
09:10:26 <notabene> ...Each one will have a point score.
09:10:31 <notabene> ...Still working on scoring.
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09:11:16 <notabene> ...Different products have different accessibility needs, so scoring is going to be different, different methods to validate according to project (say static website).
09:11:36 <notabene> ...We want to move to a task-based assessment. So far WCAG was page-based.
09:11:56 <notabene> ...Websites that meet WCAG still have major accessibility and usability problems and we want to avoid it.
09:12:16 <notabene> ...It has to scale according to site size etc.
09:12:32 <notabene> ...A page-oriented conformance cannot apply to a big thing like e.g. Facebook.
09:12:52 <Sharron> scalability is an issue especially for big complex social media sites
09:13:04 <notabene> ...Complex set of methods that will come with a point system. The overall score is going to be on the whole project.
09:13:43 <notabene> Amanda: Problem to define where non-conformance is sometimes: user? software? proper conformance?
09:14:08 <notabene> Jeanne: We want to research how do do valid usability testing.
09:14:25 <Sharron> Dave Slaon, others helping to establish valid usability testing
09:14:27 <notabene> ...Reduce subjectivy, relying on techniques to reduce it in the usability community
09:14:54 <notabene> ...An individual developer sometimes can do their own usability testing, so we want to provide methods to do that.
09:15:09 <Sharron> q+
09:16:53 <notabene> ...For example we would have a method about how to add alt text in HTML, PDF, etc.
09:17:07 <notabene> ...but we don't know how good that text is.
09:17:34 <notabene> ...We can have one method (with points) for the presence of alt, and another for the quality of the text.
09:18:01 <notabene> ...And possibly another one for automated alt text for bigger social networks.
09:18:16 <notabene> s/another one/another method
09:18:51 <notabene> ...We're considering a portion of conformity would give a portion of the points.
09:19:25 <notabene> Sharron: However many points I get for other criteria, how is critical criteria not conforming going to fit into this?
09:20:07 <notabene> Jeanne: We want to have sections and a certain amount of points in each section. This will enable us to take critical blockers into account.
09:21:09 <notabene> ...We should have another meeting especially on conformance.
09:21:32 <Brent> Ack sharron
09:21:51 <notabene> Eric: Guidelines being more granular will be shorter.
09:22:18 <notabene> Jeanne: We talked with ACT about testing, and very granular/specific rules could be a good method for testing.
09:23:03 <notabene> Amanda: Concerned that people will only conform up to the number of people they need.
09:23:16 <notabene> Jeanne: We need to think a bout critical blockers and what they are.
09:23:49 <notabene> ...I do think we should have a method to point out to essential methodswithout which you never conform.
09:24:01 <notabene> s/methodswithout/methods without
09:25:15 <notabene> Brent: As a chair, we invite you to feel free to request help from EO. If you have specific questions then we're ready to help.
09:28:08 <notabene> Eric: Also, smaller stones feel easier to contribute to.
09:32:07 <notabene> Jeanne: We want to make the rating system transparent so that people know how it works.
09:32:31 <notabene> ...Considering eight factors and weighting them and comping up with a formula.
09:32:36 <notabene> s/comping/coming
09:32:51 <notabene> Sharron: What is the timeline for transition?
09:33:04 <notabene> Jeanne: First REC should be 2021.
09:33:19 <notabene> ...WCAG 2.2 is going to be published in the meantime.
09:34:32 <notabene> ...WCAG 2.X AA may end up mapped to Bronze level to ease the transition.
09:35:57 <notabene> Ash: This new approach is going to be a Rec. What is the risk factor? What is the potential for it to be adopted?
09:36:19 <notabene> Jeanne: Two groups working on Silver. Silver TF and Silver Community Group (CG).
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09:36:33 <notabene> ...The latter: Anyone can join on what is called "incubation".
09:36:56 <notabene> ...Silver as a CG is incubating work that is planned to be intergrated into the WG.
09:37:08 <notabene> ...Working Groups have to be chartered by W3C.
09:37:33 <notabene> ...In practice, if a CG develops something sufficiently well-developed, it will transition to a WG more easily.
09:38:09 <notabene> ...This is why we're pushing off charter for another year. Hopefully the AC is going to find the work well on its way and we will charter it.
09:38:29 <notabene> ...We're also doing the user testinga= and  wide public review to reduce risk.
09:39:33 <notabene> ...We're following W3C process, working by consensus etc.
09:40:15 <notabene> s/testinga=/testing
09:41:29 <notabene> ...Putting up a CG enabled many people to come and help.
09:42:42 <notabene> ...When we put up the charter the project is going to be very advanced and we're going to have a lot to show in the Rec prototype.
09:43:58 <notabene> Brent: Back to how we can help.
09:44:20 <notabene> Jeanne: In the next two months, if people are interested in helping us with conformance level, yo'ure welcome.
09:44:37 <notabene> ...Also write plain language would help a lot.
09:45:51 <notabene> ...We want to be more welcoming towards people, through whatever tool needed to move forward.
09:47:51 <notabene> Eric: Also reformatting everything can help translations. That sholdn't be on the contributors.
09:48:21 <notabene> Brent: We learnt that forcing people to use e.g. github is not the way to go. Some people prefer it, some can't get the hang of it.
09:54:01 <notabene> [ Sharron: We meet AG WG in their room at 12:30. ]
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10:02:15 <notabene> [ Coffee break ]
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10:39:36 <steve> present-
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11:54:23 <Sharron> Outcome of AGWG meeting with EO about Understanding docs:
11:54:25 <Sharron> <JF> MG: I think especially for the first ones, sending singlely makes sense. Iterate so you are spending more time on what we think is useful.
11:54:26 <Sharron> <JF> AWK: sure, fine with that - send them singley to Alastair the TF cochair instead of Alastair the WG TF
11:54:26 <Sharron> <JF> Brent: we can do that
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12:02:15 <Sharron> Scribe: Sharron
12:02:50 <Sharron> Brent: We will continue to work with them as planned, will send the three we have completed to get in a groove of what AG may not want to accept, get feedback to inform the process going forward.
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12:04:05 <Sharron> ...then will learn from that and send diff files in future to Alastair for acceptance. They are trying to get Techniaues revised by EOY and we will try to shoot for March to complete all of the Understanding docs.
12:04:35 <Sharron> Topic: Easy Checks revision
12:04:57 <Sharron> Scribenick: notabene
12:06:01 <notabene> Sharron: We're referring people to this widely-used resource.
12:06:09 <notabene> ...But it's not maintained anymore.
12:06:48 <notabene> ...The process is too onerous at the moment. This is a high priority also in our charter, so we want to know what the group feels about it.
12:06:57 <notabene> ...Concern: no dedicated resource.
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12:07:38 <notabene> ...Sharron will step up as EasyChecks editor.
12:07:53 <notabene> Vivienne: Me too, we refer our clients to it constantly.
12:07:59 <notabene> Amanda: Same.
12:08:22 <notabene> Sharron: We're done, thank you!
12:08:54 <notabene> Sylvie: I didn't look at the documents for a long time, can you say what needs to be updated and why?
12:09:46 <notabene> Sharron: A big problem with EasyChecks (EC from now on) is we recommend tools that are obsolete.
12:10:03 <notabene> ...Do you refer people to it?
12:10:37 <notabene> Sylvie: French people don't read English documents too much. So no, so I haven't followed on its obsolescence.
12:11:12 <notabene> Eric: We take the time to refine our documents and it's good, but the time is long and by the end some things may be outdated.
12:11:30 <notabene> ...We should find a way to nod to translators when we're done working on the documents.
12:11:49 <notabene> ...EC is a long document, so we may think about structuring them differently.
12:12:38 <notabene> Sharron: It's a thing we are going to do: think about the structure.
12:12:53 <notabene> Amanda: We can also add 2.1 to them.
12:13:56 <shawn> We did discuss the title: https://github.com/w3c/EasyChecks/issues/84
12:13:57 <notabene> Sharron: We will streamline language, point to new tools.
12:14:31 <shawn> Esay Checks Next Gen https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Easy_Checks_Next_Gen
12:14:40 <notabene> Eric: We have tutorials which get into implementation details, but we dont have the same for testing, so EC is where we point people to.
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12:16:25 <notabene> Brent: We had a discussion about the title (see shawn's URL).
12:16:45 <notabene> ...Captured earlier discussions about revamping on https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Easy_Checks_Next_Gen
12:17:42 <notabene> Eric: Ideas are: Filtering, Screencasts.
12:17:55 <notabene> ...I like screencasts as ways to help people get on board step by step.
12:18:22 <notabene> Vivienne: These are easy to produce.
12:18:36 <notabene> Brent: This should tie in with the Tools list.
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12:19:58 <notabene> Chris: Do we need mobile-specific EC as it's a very different approach to testing.
12:20:13 <notabene> Eric: We want to first concentrate on Web stuff and do that right.
12:21:02 <notabene> ...We could list those as we already list operating systems etc.
12:22:30 <notabene> Sharron: Does anybody else feel it's not the time to renovate EC?
12:22:48 <notabene> ...I think it's high priority as it gets a lot of attention.
12:23:06 <shawn> Shawn agrees it's a high priority -- just very concerened with the number of other projects EOWG has going right now. https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_Current_Projects#2018_Current_Work
12:23:10 <notabene> Vivienne: Many people only use this resource because they're told it's the go-to resource.
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12:24:19 <notabene> Sharron: Business case is wrapping up. Translations is just getting started, and Sylvie is right it's a priority.
12:24:45 <notabene> Brent: EC is a subgroup.
12:24:59 <notabene> Sharron: Being obsolete is not to our credit.
12:25:52 <notabene> Amanda: Shawn has a lot to do but Sharron will lead this.
12:26:40 <notabene> Shawn: I'm not prepared to respond yet.
12:27:36 <Krisanne> Krisanne has joined #eo
12:28:40 <notabene> Sharron: The majority present agrees there's a need for revision, organization is going to be discussed between chairs and Shawn.
12:30:10 <notabene> Eric: We have to think about the outcome, planning, responsibilities etc.
12:31:46 <notabene> KrisAnne: I'd like to make EC more manageable by breaking them up in smaller chunks.
12:33:08 <vivienne> q+
12:33:39 <notabene> Sharron: This next iteration will be less effort.
12:33:46 <Brent> Ack viv
12:34:59 <notabene> Vivienne: We changed the presentation with the new site, but we didn't update the content. Style needs to be updated. New format to be found like what we want to do and what's the best way to do it.
12:35:10 <notabene> ...It's not bad, it just needs to be updated.
12:35:34 <notabene> Eric: This transition was to be expected and it's OK.
12:35:51 <notabene> Amanda: Maybe we need to list people who are ready to help when time comes.
12:36:22 <notabene> Brent: That's what the process is: bring things up to the agenda and see if/when we decide to do things.
12:36:39 <notabene> ...The planning team will take it up.
12:37:42 <notabene> [ Agenda discussion ]
12:38:10 <shawn> q+
12:38:54 <Brent> Ack sha
12:40:37 <notabene> RRSAgent: draft minutes
12:40:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/10/23-eo-minutes.html notabene
12:42:57 <Krisanne> Accessuse.eu
12:46:52 <notabene> Topic: Translations
12:47:23 <notabene> [ Eric presenting te configuration ]
12:47:33 <yatil> https://w3c.github.io/wai-translation-playground/people-use-web/fr/
12:48:38 <notabene> Eric: I added a box to give translation information pointing to source, crediting translators, date of translation etc.
12:49:12 <notabene> Shawn: We have a list of proposals for translations on the Wiki.
12:49:42 <notabene> ...We want to make sure a link to the translation is visible on the original page.
12:50:34 <notabene> [ Shawn reading wiki page ]
12:51:00 <notabene> https://www.w3.org/wiki/WAI_Translations
12:52:46 <notabene> Shawn: We have this example that Eric's put up on https://w3c.github.io/wai-translation-playground/people-use-web/fr/
12:53:54 <notabene> q+
12:55:07 <notabene> Vivienne: Is the whole navigation going to be translated as well?
12:56:36 <notabene> Shawn: The plan is: if the information is available in that language, then it will be in that language
12:58:11 <notabene> Eric: You stay in the same navigation but are in another language, but articles not translated are still going to be in English if we don't have the resource in the page's language.
12:58:33 <notabene> ...We don't want to hide content not translated yet.
12:58:53 <Krisanne> Q+
12:58:56 <Sylvie> Q+
12:59:31 <Brent> Ack not
13:01:07 <notabene> Shawn: Eric is going to animate all that.
13:01:18 <vivienne> q+muhammad
13:01:22 <Brent> Ack kris
13:01:23 <vivienne> q+nayef
13:01:30 <shawn> s/animate all that/automate all that
13:02:31 <notabene> KrisAnne: We must also translate elements of interactino like buttons ("I want to help").
13:02:43 <notabene> Eric: YEs, and next/previous buttons must be translated, and we will.
13:02:52 <Brent> Ack syl
13:03:39 <notabene> Shawn: We will translate the interface.
13:04:46 <notabene> Sylvie: I wanted to see it translated for several years, so I'm happy to see it!
13:05:09 <Vicki> q+
13:05:29 <notabene> ...It would be great to know if a resource is translated or not, if it's ready to be translated.
13:06:04 <notabene> Stephane: Dom and Richard can help us with that, we already worked by CC'ing the w3c-translators mailing list. There is a process already in place.
13:06:36 <notabene> Eric: IT's going to evolve with the new process being put in place through github, they're thinking it through at the moment.
13:07:06 <notabene> Sylvie: How will the process be?
13:07:39 <notabene> [ interruption, guests are invited to speak before leaving for another meeting ]
13:08:46 <notabene> Muhammad and Nayef: Arabic translation: in different regions we may have different translations in different regions.
13:09:04 <notabene> ...Terms can be unrecognized from one group to another.
13:09:56 <notabene> ...We must be able to edit documents to accomodate different terms for the same word in variants of Arabic.
13:10:13 <notabene> ...E.g. "Server" is not a unique name in Arabic.
13:10:46 <notabene> Shadi: To add to that, it's not specific, we have 2 translations for Portuguese (Portugal vs. Brazil).
13:11:33 <shawn> q+ to reply with Authorized translations vs unofficial. Expect to have mailing list for people interested in a specific languague. Might have languauge glossary for specific language translations
13:12:05 <notabene> ...We have 2 processes, the first is Authorized translations, the second is Unofficial translations where anyone can translated and it's not endorsed by W3C.
13:12:30 <shawn> yes, will have a quickj review
13:12:38 <notabene> ...We're going to let anybody translate or have a quick review?
13:12:48 <notabene> Shawn: Yes, we'll quick-review.
13:13:00 <notabene> Eric: We should be open but cannot be completely open.
13:13:07 <notabene> ...We could create community groups.
13:13:26 <notabene> Shadi: There needs to be some minimal review bvecause it's official website material.
13:13:48 <notabene> ...Local offices may be asked to help.
13:14:27 <notabene> Eric: We could push reviews as issues to Github.
13:14:48 <shawn> ack me
13:14:48 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to reply with Authorized translations vs unofficial. Expect to have mailing list for people interested in a specific languague. Might have languauge glossary for
13:14:52 <Zakim> ... specific language translations
13:15:22 <Brent> Ack mu
13:15:28 <Brent> Ack nay
13:15:29 <notabene> Shawn: We might put up a mailing list for language-specific translators, and you would get notifications for review.
13:15:39 <notabene> ...We might end up having a glossary for translating items.
13:15:55 <notabene> ...Like ways we talk about disabilities.
13:16:54 <notabene> ...We're coordinating for that.
13:16:55 <shawn> present+
13:18:29 <notabene> Sylvie: Was asking about the process. Also, I'm lost with multilanguage mockups: parts of navigation in English, parts in French.
13:18:47 <addison> addison has joined #eo
13:19:26 <notabene> ...It's confusing from a usability point of view.
13:19:36 <r12a> r12a has joined #eo
13:19:42 <notabene> Eric: We will settle things when we finalize the mockups.
13:20:03 <david_clarke> david_clarke has joined #eo
13:20:04 <notabene> ...Currently it's Markdown. We have to talk about what format translators are comfortable in.
13:20:47 <Bert> Bert has joined #eo
13:20:49 <david_clarke> present+
13:21:01 <notabene> Shawn: It's in the open issues, Richard has an eye on that.
13:21:23 <notabene> ...Ideally its good that people submit translations and we can do the work, but it may need more resources on our end.
13:22:06 <r12a> present+ r12a
13:22:31 <Brent> Q?
13:22:37 <addison> present+ addison
13:22:40 <Bert> present+
13:23:14 <notabene> ...Who can help code?
13:23:46 <notabene> Stephane: Stepping up for French.
13:23:55 <notabene> Eric: We need to document the process.
13:24:47 <dom> dom has joined #eo
13:25:37 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
13:25:37 <Zakim> Present: Sharron, Chris, notabene, SteveLee, Lauriat, JeanneSpellman, AshHarris, ShawnLauriat, shawn, david_clarke, r12a, addison, Bert
13:26:38 <notabene> q?
13:26:51 <shawn> https://www.w3.org/wiki/WAI_Translations#EOWG_questions
13:27:01 <notabene> [ Summary of iscussion for newcomers ]
13:27:12 <notabene> s/iscussion/discussion
13:27:44 <notabene> Eric: Issues: How do we switch languages? How do we present translations (up to date or not)?
13:28:31 <r12a> https://w3c.github.io/wai-translation-playground/people-use-web/
13:28:37 <yatil> https://w3c.github.io/wai-translation-playground/people-use-web/fr/
13:28:53 <shawn> q+
13:30:19 <notabene> Shawn: We have open questions about UI, how you can find translations.
13:30:52 <notabene> ...What is not ready for discussion yet is tutorials, process.
13:30:54 <shawn> q- shawn
13:31:05 <notabene> ...Welcoming input from Internationalization.
13:31:08 <Brent> Ack Vic
13:31:21 <notabene> Vicki: When you have main content in one language and navigation in another, that can be confusing to users.
13:32:03 <notabene> ...We have addressed it for very large websites by limiting navigation to current language in current page and point to a overview page to navigate broadly.
13:32:12 <Bert> -> https://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Overview.ru.html Typical translated page in the CSS area (translations in this area are managed by me)
13:32:34 <r12a> q+
13:32:54 <notabene> Sharron: That makes sense.
13:33:17 <notabene> Vicki: As we added content the menus got longer.
13:33:33 <yatil> q+
13:33:47 <Brent> Ack r12
13:34:41 <notabene> Richard: I have a page in Persian. One problem you're going to have if you just link to a home is the findability of this one link to the home page.
13:35:41 <notabene> Vicki: We have a top navigation banner giving links to give option to switch and the rest of the page is monolingual.
13:35:54 <Brent> Ack hat
13:36:03 <Brent> Ack yatil
13:36:20 <notabene> Eric: I like the idea to show links, this shows what work is still to be done.
13:36:48 <Vicki> Vicki has joined #eo
13:36:49 <notabene> ...Also we can show the language for all the links, if we hide non-translated content it may look as if the content is poor.
13:36:53 <Vicki> http://www.wipo.int/portal/zh/index.html
13:37:15 <Roy> Roy has joined #eo
13:38:04 <notabene> Shawn: Pages in Internationalization activitty show a paragraph explaining partial translation.
13:38:14 <shawn> q?
13:38:16 <notabene> Vicky: How is translation prioritzed?
13:38:26 <notabene> Shawn: We will have a translation priorization.
13:38:59 <notabene> Eric: Main navigation and landing page translated is valuable.
13:39:27 <notabene> Amanda: Everything is switched from English to Arabic. Your eye "naturally" finds what's not translated.
13:39:45 <shawn> q+ to say resources ! ;-)
13:40:08 <notabene> ...It's more of a challenge to do that when the language script doesn't change.
13:40:30 <shawn> q+ to say MVP
13:41:15 <notabene> Richard: The overview page in Arabic is wrong for the moment. The titles were translated but the page is still basically  in English.
13:41:30 <notabene> Nayef: Yes this must be turned around.
13:41:37 <notabene> Richard: Subpages are done properly.
13:42:05 <notabene> Eric: We plan to not have mixed language.
13:42:16 <notabene> ...Everything that *is* content will be translated.
13:42:21 <Bert> -> https://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/current-work.ur.html A rtl page that is not simply mirrored
13:43:21 <shawn> q+ to say from stand alone
13:43:42 <Bert> q+
13:43:47 <shawn> ack me
13:43:47 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say resources ! ;-) and to say MVP and to say from stand alone
13:43:53 <notabene> Eric: We will try to automatically do the best.
13:44:00 <r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/getting-started/language
13:44:21 <notabene> Shawn: Keep in mind minimal viable product and resources we have. Also we're going to one language to translations.
13:44:56 <notabene> ...In the past we've had very few translations and it's good to keep realistic.
13:45:22 <notabene> ...We must keep in mind what we can realistically do.
13:45:31 <r12a> q+
13:45:57 <Vicki> At this url, you can see that all content on this page will (never) be translated.  However, the titles of publications are translated followed in brackets by (in English). http://www.wipo.int/pct/es/index.html
13:46:02 <notabene> Eric: Some of the headers can be easy to translate. I want to push a "cheap" something and work up from that.
13:46:34 <Brent> Ack Bert
13:46:53 <shawn> a/Keep in mind minimal viable product and resources we have. /Good to dream big. Then, Keep in mind minimal viable product and resources we have.
13:47:03 <notabene> Bert: You mentioned language negociation. I have some pages like that, but most of them are not negociated.
13:47:34 <notabene> ...Because I know the quality of the English page but cannot always validate the translation's quality. The user has the choice to read the authoritative version.
13:48:04 <notabene> ...Also, navigation menu: A software generates the localized version based on localized strings for each language.
13:49:06 <notabene> ...If we want to offer the whole navigation even if things are not translated, the menu is translated.
13:49:32 <notabene> ...The title of the page link is in English if said page was not translated yet.
13:49:56 <notabene> ...We always add an Egnlish link pointing to the official English page.
13:50:17 <addison> s/Egnlish/English/
13:50:24 <notabene> Richard: In i18n pages we jump to a default page if the translation is not available (negociation).
13:50:44 <notabene> ...We use cookies for users to specify preferred reading language.
13:51:12 <notabene> ...You always have the choice to stay in the language, choose another one.
13:51:37 <notabene> ...Main reason we set a cookie is because some people may want to stay in some language although their browser would negociate otherwise.
13:51:38 <shawn> q+ to note worked well for my use cases
13:52:08 <notabene> Shawn: That was very beautiful and works well.
13:52:16 <shawn> ack shawn
13:52:16 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to note worked well for my use cases
13:52:17 <notabene> ...Proposal: we do that.
13:52:46 <notabene> Bert: I have a few right-to-left pages and some things have to be adjusted manually, it's not all automatic.
13:52:59 <notabene> ...I had to change a few CSS rules.
13:53:23 <notabene> Eric: We hope translators will tell us how things should work and behave.
13:53:26 <Brent> Ack r12a
13:53:33 <r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/getting-started/language
13:54:36 <notabene> Richard: You can do a lot without waiting for input from translators.
13:54:52 <r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/getting-started/language-ar
13:55:07 <addison> https://www.w3.org/International/getting-started/language.ar
13:55:10 <notabene> Mine was https://www.w3.org/International/getting-started/language.fr
13:56:36 <notabene> Richard: List of languages is inverted as well.
13:56:57 <notabene> ...It worries me you may not translate header and footer, because they feature important information.
13:57:26 <notabene> ...Those strings were translated only once and are then pushed into the page automatically.
13:57:32 <notabene> Eric: This is what we will do.
13:58:08 <notabene> ...We also have to discuss what we translate or not (eg Web Accessibility Initiative).
13:58:25 <notabene> ...The end goal is certainly to translate everything.
13:58:39 <notabene> Brent: Were some of the pages in the menu not Arabic but English only?
13:58:59 <notabene> Richard: Yes.
13:59:24 <notabene> ...We translate the articles but not the main navigation pages (practical tip).
13:59:51 <shawn> q?
13:59:54 <notabene> Shadi: We're trying to push translations to be online and then we'll see how we update later.
14:00:13 <notabene> Eric: It's the challenge: We want to publish quickly and at the same time want to have translations.
14:00:28 <notabene> ...An older translation is better than no translation at all.
14:00:32 <r12a> q+
14:00:36 <r12a> q+
14:00:40 <notabene> Amanda: +1
14:01:27 <notabene> Eric: The block at the beginning of the page aims at addressing the issue of evergreen content.
14:01:38 <Brent> Ack r12a
14:01:50 <notabene> ...If a translation is too old, we may discuss if we want to remove it.
14:02:28 <notabene> Richard: We quite regularly come across things that we don't want to see printed. So we regularly pull translations when they're too old.
14:03:03 <notabene> ...We add Javascript files to pages and they provide information about up-to-date versions.
14:03:07 <shawn> relevant GitHub issue https://github.com/w3c/wai-translations/issues/9
14:03:32 <notabene> ...Then we can move the best version up in the language-switching programmatic process.
14:03:43 <shawn> q+ to ask for final comments & wrap up
14:04:34 <notabene> Sylvie: Define "too old"?
14:04:57 <notabene> Shadi: Depends on the resource, if it's a comma edit or substantial.
14:05:09 <notabene> Richard: We have several levels.
14:05:23 <notabene> ...If it's a comma it's negligible.
14:05:34 <notabene> ...If it's an image I can change the URL
14:06:12 <notabene> ...If it's a new paragraph and they don't translate it after several notices and it chanegs meaning, the article is pulled if not updated within a short time frame (one month).
14:06:35 <shawn> q?
14:06:40 <shawn> ack me
14:06:40 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask for final comments & wrap up
14:08:09 <notabene> Shawn: We're going to evaluate this feedback and ask everybody to take a look at the mockups.
14:08:14 <notabene> ...Page semantics, too.
14:08:19 <notabene> ...Findability and usability.
14:08:35 <notabene> ...Icon in breadcrumb etc.
14:08:44 <notabene> ...Everything is in the Wiki page, please contribute.
14:09:10 <notabene> s/chanegs/changes
14:09:52 <notabene> ...Everything is up to discussion.
14:10:39 <notabene> Stephane: I really like the way it works on i18n and would love to see the same mechanisms in WAI section.
14:11:47 <notabene> Eric: We may need help.
14:12:35 <notabene> Brent: KrisAnne suggests : if we're translating, we could also provide sign languages.
14:12:57 <yatil> +1 for sign language
14:12:59 <notabene> ...We can talk about details later.
14:13:08 <yatil> (if we can do it :-D)
14:13:26 <shawn> +1 for sign language
14:13:32 <notabene> KrisAnne: If not everything, we could at least provide an intro in sign language.
14:13:42 <notabene> +1 for intro as "first effort"
14:15:22 <notabene> Richard: There's a lot more we can talk about so we can discuss further. We can help.
14:15:41 <dom> dom has left #eo
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14:25:09 <shawn> s/for sign language/for sign languages
14:25:16 <shawn> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:25:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/10/23-eo-minutes.html shawn
14:27:57 <Brent> Brent has joined #eo
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14:30:04 <Vicki> Vicki has joined #eo
14:30:47 <notabene> [ Meeting planning ]
14:31:16 <notabene> Sharron: Can we cancel Thursday meeting?
14:31:37 <notabene> Shawn: We're all in sync!
14:32:02 <notabene> Topic: Outreach
14:32:12 <notabene> Scribe: shawn
14:32:16 <notabene> Scribe: Sharron
14:35:50 <Brent> Brent has joined #eo
14:35:51 <Vicki> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Showcase_Examples_with_Videos/Outreach_Plan
14:36:06 <shawn> main page https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_Outreach
14:36:18 <shawn> example https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Showcase_Examples_with_Videos/Outreach_Plan
14:36:30 <Sharron> <Sharron> Topic: More on Outreach for EO resources
14:36:30 <Sharron> <Sharron> Brent: Eric reminded us that we have in the past had good plans that we followed for a while and then has fallen off. It is exciting to think about it and a key is to maintain follow up so that we can continue to be effective. So I would like to 1. identfy what we do well 2. what we are able to all contribute to and finally 3. maintaining the drive and momentum
14:36:49 <yatil> s/<Sharron> Topic:/Topic:
14:37:01 <yatil> s/<Sharron> Brent:/Brent:
14:37:03 <notabene> s/has fallen/have fallen
14:37:11 <Sharron> ...we created an outreach plan that helped maintain our momentum
14:37:16 <notabene> s/identfy/identify
14:37:42 <Roy> Roy has joined #eo
14:38:18 <shawn> twitter not very visible. it's just at https://www.w3.org/WAI/news/subscribe/
14:40:18 <Sharron> Sharron: Chris said two things yestrday - "Follow us on Twitter" and do a weekly standup, what will we do for outreach this week?
14:41:13 <Sharron> Amanda: What motivates people? I get most motivated at the face to face meetings. If four times a year, we plan outreach for the quarter that will make more sense.
14:42:04 <Sharron> ...otherwise things can get stale.
14:42:13 <Brent> Q+
14:42:31 <Sharron> Sharron: I get that and agree about the possibility of getting stale. However to chack in each week might still motivate us.
14:43:09 <Sharron> Eric: Two things could help: being more agile in development and publishing and having good solid evergreen content.
14:43:17 <notabene> s/chack/check
14:44:21 <Sharron> Amanda: One of the things when you set campaigns up, you use schedulers, relevant things are pushed out without so much effort.
14:44:41 <Sharron> Vicki: Are we a little bit looser now that we can get some analytics?
14:45:11 <Sharron> Brent: We need to be specific about what we want from Eric to see what they can provide?
14:50:53 <notabene> q+
14:50:59 <Brent> Brent has joined #eo
14:51:07 <notabene> q+ on statistics
14:51:24 <notabene> q-
14:51:31 <Sharron> Eric: The old analytics data was not relevant and so we do not want to mislead.
14:51:54 <Sharron> ...the number of visitors wuld not mean anything.
14:52:09 <Sharron> Chris: Google analytics?
14:52:15 <Sharron> Eric: No
14:52:37 <Sharron> ...we use an alternative version that gives the same data without giving it away.
14:53:02 <Sharron> Shadi: What is the relevance? What are we trying to do?
14:53:07 <Sharron> Chris: Outreach
14:53:17 <Brent> Q+ to say sharing and sticker
14:54:09 <Sharron> Shadi: We don't go easy with the data for protection, it is the right of every org to protect its data. Rather what is the purpose? Do we want to know the impact of certain actions, yes, we can answer these questions.
14:54:58 <Sharron> Amanda: We need to know what we are trying to learn.
14:55:32 <Sharron> Eric: Page views, average time on page, bounce rate, generation rate. Can do comparisons and all
14:56:34 <Sharron> Amanda: it ultimately comes down to - are we running a social media campaign and if so, how will we know if it is effective.
14:58:15 <Sharron> ...some possibilitites, live FB videos, auto-captioned and edited within 15 minutes
14:59:14 <Sharron> Eric: When it comes to social outreach we must go where people are and that turns out to be corporate socila media. W3C has a FB page, not sure if WAI does.
15:00:06 <Sharron> Amanda: we made a decision at our company to use the same content and push out to all outlets.
15:01:24 <Sharron> Shadi: The discussion was how to maintain outreach - I like the idea to make an outreach plan quarterly or maybe use the survey.
15:01:30 <Bert> Bert has left #eo
15:02:02 <yatil> q+ to say “have you talked about resource X this week?”
15:02:10 <Sharron> ...the work of a small group may be to fill the queue with items?
15:02:57 <Sharron> ...building the habit in our regular work and then building channels
15:04:18 <Sharron> Brent: I support that,let's build outreach in a small way and get good at it.
15:04:28 <Sharron> ..then add more things
15:04:58 <yatil> q+ to say outreach to other communities + W3C groups
15:05:27 <notabene> ack br
15:05:27 <Zakim> Brent, you wanted to say sharing and sticker
15:05:43 <Brent> Ack yatil
15:05:43 <Zakim> yatil, you wanted to say “have you talked about resource X this week?” and to say outreach to other communities + W3C groups
15:06:02 <Brent> Q+
15:06:07 <Vicki> Vicki has joined #eo
15:06:12 <Sharron> Eric: Choose an article to foucs on and the survey quetions would be "Have you talked about item X today?"
15:06:39 <shawn> q+ to say "inreach" to W3C Members, etc.
15:06:58 <Sharron> ...also need to outreach to W3C groups as weel.
15:07:33 <Sharron> KrisAnne: If we knew how things are performing, could we highlight some of the under viewed articles?
15:07:41 <Sharron> Eric: Like Older Users
15:07:45 <Brent> Q-
15:07:48 <Sharron> Sharron: Or planning and managing guide
15:07:57 <Brent> Q+
15:08:05 <shawn> ack me
15:08:05 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say "inreach" to W3C Members, etc.
15:08:19 <Sharron> Stephane:  I like this reverse view at analytics: which paegs are not viewed and if so, can we figure out why
15:09:08 <Sharron> Shawn: Wanted to emphasize the "inreach" to other groups from W3C. Especially we will be rechartering in a year and would be great if they all knew about us.
15:09:16 <Sharron> Brent: Good point
15:09:53 <nhassan> nhassan has joined #eo
15:10:47 <Sharron> Amanda: Getting us out there at other conferences
15:11:02 <shawn> s/other groups from W3C. Especially we will be rechartering in a year and would be great if they all knew about us./others throughout W3C - members, WG participants, W3C staff, etc. (Especially we will be rechartering in a year and would be nice if AC reps think our work is great.:)
15:11:49 <Sharron> Eric: If we get stickers...
15:11:49 <shawn> WAI has a resource for that.
15:12:00 <Sharron> KrisAnne: There's resource for that
15:12:03 <notabene> +1 for sticker motto
15:13:26 <shawn> it takes wayyyy more than 1/2 hour to do any of that
15:14:50 <Sharron> Shadi: Do stickers do any good? any vlaue or beenfit?
15:14:52 <Sharron> Stephane: The more you see a brand, the more likely you are to use it in response to a question.
15:15:49 <Sharron> Brent: We go to CSUN and have a WAI presentation and sometimes have 20 or 20 people come. If we brought stickers to CSUN could have 2000 people know about it.
15:17:18 <Sharron> Eric: And remember where you got it, and what it realtes to.
15:17:47 <Sharron> ...a11y cats t-shirt
15:18:52 <Sharron> careful about thinking it does not take long, for instance the dev outreach W3Cx did is quite hard to read, we don't want to fall in this kind of problem, especially re: accesibility
15:18:54 <Brent> Ack me
15:19:08 <Vicki> Vicki has joined #eo
15:21:10 <Sharron> Brent: We should ahve a sticker and the other thing is to build on KrisAnne's comment about inreach. I often think I maight reach out to people in my company about a resource. If I am going to write to all of Pearson about a particular resource, why not make it available to all of the EO group?
15:21:13 <shawn> q+
15:22:16 <Sharron> Kris: 2 types of outreach. First to those who know about us and here are our new resources. But also to all the many many people out there who do not even know that accessibility exists.
15:22:54 <Sharron> ...things about accessiiblity in general.
15:23:04 <shawn> q+ to say we did what Brent said e.g., https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Showcase_Examples_with_Videos/Outreach_Plan -- what worked and didn't work before? how to better
15:23:06 <shawn> ack me
15:23:06 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say we did what Brent said e.g., https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Showcase_Examples_with_Videos/Outreach_Plan -- what worked and didn't work before? how to
15:23:09 <Zakim> ... better
15:23:57 <Sharron> Shawn: What are messages? who are the audiences we want to reach with those messages?
15:25:11 <shawn> s/What are messages? /Agree with KrisAnne. Go beyond just promoting a specific resources. Think broader. What are messages?
15:27:14 <Sharron> Brent: We will always do the blast for a new resource but what can we do consistently?
15:28:15 <Sharron> Eric: When things are communicated on a regular schedule, people get used to seeing it and bond to it. Had the fantasy to release a new resource every couple of weeks.
15:28:41 <Sharron> Brent: Did not have a plan but will focus on how to do a sustained effort.
15:29:50 <Sharron> Shadi: When I joined EO, we began every meeting with a quick update about what is going on in your corner of the world.
15:29:58 <shawn> yup, yup - we use to have an open time in the telecon "what's up with accessibility around your sphere
15:30:49 <Sharron> RESOLUTION: EOWG will have outreach on the survey and as a topic at every meeting for at least 5 minutes.
15:30:56 <yatil> +1
15:31:01 <chris> +1
15:31:01 <notabene> +1
15:31:04 <Vicki> +1
15:31:05 <Amanda_M> +1
15:31:06 <yatil> +1 for Shadi and Kris Anne
15:31:11 <Brent> +1
15:31:12 <Sharron> Sharron: +1
15:31:15 <shawn> OK
15:31:41 <Sylvie> +1
15:33:14 <shawn> want to make sure that we're using the exchanges to positively influence EOWG's overall work (not get too insular)
15:33:34 <yatil> q+ for final comments
15:34:17 <notabene> +1 on shawn's remark - we serve WAI
15:35:03 <Sharron> Brent: shares ideas from Pearson about how they recognized people who were taking proactive accessibility actions, from 6 a few years ago, to more than 60 now.
15:35:54 <Brent> Ack yatil
15:35:54 <Zakim> yatil, you wanted to discuss final comments
15:36:00 <shawn> idea from yesterday -- post WAI resources in comments to other articles
15:36:33 <Sharron> Eric: A Book Apart wants to get to know Scott Kubie and we could similar outreach by recognizing specifc people.
15:36:36 <shawn> in that light -- take a group picutre now!
15:37:28 <Sharron> trackbot, end meeting
15:37:28 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:37:28 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Sharron, Chris, notabene, SteveLee, Jeanne, Spellman, Shawn, Lauriat, Ash, Harris, JeanneSpellman, ShawnLaureat, AshHarris, ShawnLauriat,
15:37:32 <Zakim> ... david_clarke, r12a, addison, Bert
15:37:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:37:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/10/23-eo-minutes.html trackbot
15:37:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:37:37 <RRSAgent> I see no action items