06:20:12 RRSAgent has joined #sdw 06:20:12 logging to https://www.w3.org/2018/10/22-sdw-irc 06:20:16 Zakim has joined #sdw 06:20:23 RRSAgent, make logs public 06:20:41 Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web IG - TPAC F2F - Day 1/2 06:21:13 Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/sdwig/meetings/f2f-3.html 06:35:09 pr has joined #sdw 06:39:59 jtandy2 has joined #sdw 06:40:43 present+ jtandy 06:41:41 brinkwoman has joined #sdw 06:45:46 MichaelGordon has joined #sdw 06:46:00 present+ MichaelGordon 06:47:35 present+ Linda 06:48:06 billroberts has joined #sdw 06:48:14 Present+ Francois_Daoust 06:48:21 present+ billroberts 06:49:13 Present+ Peter_Rushforth, Chris_Jarvis, Rob_Smith, John_Pallet 06:49:55 jtandy has joined #sdw 06:50:08 satakagi has joined #sdw 06:50:26 johnpallett has joined #sdw 06:50:34 mmocny has joined #sdw 06:51:07 Present+ jtandy 06:51:26 Hello folks. 06:51:33 Present+ Ingo_Simonis 06:51:55 present+ Satoru Takagi 06:52:50 tidoust has changed the topic to: Spatial Data on the Web IG - TPAC F2F 06:52:56 scribenick: tidoust 06:53:16 Topic: Introduction 06:53:21 RobSmith has joined #sdw 06:53:57 jtandy: [Logistics]. Let's do a quick round of introduction. I work for the Met Office, co-chair of this group 06:54:13 brinkwoman: I work for Geonovum. Other co-chair of this group 06:54:34 tidoust: W3C Team contact for the Spatial Data on the Web IG 06:54:57 RobSmith: I work for AwayTeam. I lead the WebVMT proposal 06:55:11 johnpallett_ has joined #sdw 06:55:25 ChrisLittle: Also working for the Met Office. Did a lot of things including graphics. 06:55:47 ChrisJarvis: Working for the Environment Agency in the UK. 06:55:58 ... Managing lots of spatial data there. 06:56:17 jtandy2 has joined #sdw 06:56:22 MichaelGordon: Ordnance Survey. I do a lot of work with OGC, involved in Test beds. 06:56:49 billroberts: Swirrl. Stats on the Web Best practices. 06:57:23 PeterRushforth: National Resources Canada. Co-chair of the maps for HTML CG. 06:57:59 IngoSimonis: Work for OGC. Starting Testbed 15. Pretty sure that plenty of the topics we'll talk about today will be part of that effort. 06:58:21 JohnPallet: From Google. Involved in Immersive Web CG/WG. 06:58:56 Michael: Also working for Google [scribe missed the rest] 06:59:03 Satoru: from KDDI. 07:00:13 JosephMedley: From Google as well. 07:00:40 I am one of the editors of SVG 2 and I am the chief programmer of KDDI's web mapping system 07:01:44 jtandy: I wanted to present the scope of the IG, how we work. 07:02:00 ... We presented the IG in the last OGC meeting. 07:02:01 mmocny has joined #sdw 07:02:21 ... The IG is a joint group between the OGC and W3C. 07:02:52 [slides shown] 07:03:11 ChrisLittle has joined #sdw 07:03:19 brinkwoman: Goal is to expose spatial data on the Web so that they become findable by search engines and usable. 07:03:28 Present+ ChrisLittle 07:03:32 ... We used to be a Working Group, then we switched to an Interest Group. 07:03:52 ... Jeremy and I worked on Spatial Data on the Web Best Practices. 07:04:36 ... We also completed standardisation of technical specs OWL Time and Semantic Sensor Network (SSN). These specs have become W3C Recommendation. Not yet OGC standards but we're working on it. 07:04:47 ... Also did some work on coverage. 07:05:12 billroberts: Coverages are for big spatial datasets, roughly. Think satellite images. 07:05:38 jtandy: Data with space and time. 07:06:11 brinkwoman: The WG closed in 2017 and we setup this Interest Group to follow up. 07:06:36 ... What we're trying to do in the IG is: Statistical Data on the Web Best Practice (Bill is leading that work) 07:06:57 ... Also working on adoption and implementation of Spatial Data on the Web Best Practice (led by Michael) 07:07:13 ... Also handling errata for published Recommendations SSN and OWL TIME. 07:07:28 ... And sheperding topics that are of interest for both OGC and W3C. 07:07:54 ... In OGC speak, a W3C Interest Group is a DWG. 07:08:26 ChrisLittle: I find it useful to describe standards WG as vertical, and Domain WG as horizontal 07:08:38 RobSmith: What's the equivalent of a W3C WG in OGC? 07:08:55 brinkwoman: They call it a SWG. Standards Working Group. 07:09:39 ... To sheperd ideas, we use the notion of a strategy funnel, from exploration to standardisation. 07:09:49 ... We stop before standardisation. 07:10:11 ... The strategy funnel is online, we're going to look at it later. The scope is "geospatial + Web". 07:10:35 ... We're evaluating all the items that are in the funnel. 07:11:18 ... We're coordinating this work with OGC. The OGC has Technology Trends to look at the horizon of things that are coming along. We are having telcos with OGC about Technology Trends once every two months, roughly. 07:11:38 pr has left #sdw 07:11:41 ... If we move something in the funnel, we tell the OGC Architecture Board about it, so they know what we're up to here. 07:12:02 PeterRushforth has joined #SDW 07:12:15 ... One thing that we do talk in this IG as well is that if something needs to be standardised, we may need to create a W3C WG, an OGC SWG, or a joing group. 07:12:31 jtandy: That's a quick overview, thanks! 07:13:16 ... In summary, our job is to incubate ideas related to Spatial Data, and to develop best practices. 07:14:16 ... Those are the two roles that I think we do. If you look at how we're working, we have a lot of individual topics, each one led by one individual with little engagement from others in the group. 07:14:23 https://github.com/w3c/strategy/projects/2?card_filter_query=label%3Ageospatial 07:14:32 Topic: Strategy funnel 07:14:55 https://github.com/opengeospatial/OGC-Technology-Trends/blob/master/README.md 07:15:27 jtandy2: Looking at the Strategy funnel, we have one thing in investigation, and a bunch of things in exploration 07:15:56 https://github.com/w3c/sdw/projects 07:16:18 ... We have a number of projects in the works. 07:17:01 ... Some proposals for the Time ontology, for instance. 07:17:13 ... Also CityJSON. 07:17:16 ... CoverageJSON. 07:18:13 ... MapML led by Peter, again an example of an initiative led by an individual without much engagement from the rest of the group on the development of the spec itself, but the group provides guidance on moving things forward 07:18:28 ... The WebVMT proposal, led by Rob, same thing. 07:19:13 ... The SSN Ontology is defined into two ontologies, a complete one effectively called SSN, and a simple one called SOSA. Some extensions are considered. 07:19:22 ... Again a small group of people working independently. 07:20:16 ... Describing moving objects is essentially dead. The persons who were to work on this have not joined the group and led the work. None of us are short on jobs to do. The group cannot work on everything. 07:20:43 ... Time amendments, led by Chris. 07:21:05 ChrisLittle: Moving forward in OGC these days. 07:22:13 jtandy: The Time Ontology has been around since 2006, but was not a proper standard. The new one is a standard, introduces new calendars. Gregorian calendar is the default global, but you can also represent the Jewish calendar and so on if you wish. 07:22:36 .... SSN/SOSA amendments, Maxime will be there tomorrow. 07:22:57 ... Statistical data on the Web, led by Bill. 07:23:24 billroberts: I've been collaborating with Michael, Chris, and a few others. But it's a small group, indeed, not enough to make huge progress. 07:24:10 jtandy: My point is that, going through our list of activities, our job is to progress ideas to the point where they can be standardized, and develop best practices. 07:24:46 ... Also giving visibility to our work, to new ideas. 07:25:54 ... We're trying to see where things fit in OGC/W3C activities. Our job is to say that if you want to develop WebVMT, you need to gather support from the right people, e.g. defense for body-worn cameras. 07:26:11 RobSmith: And that kind of feedback has been really helpful. 07:26:49 hugoledoux has joined #sdw 07:26:57 ... Our job is to move things through the funnel to the point where our work is concluded. 07:27:47 ... It's somewhat mechanistic. 07:28:12 hi no not necessary... I was just again struggling with the webex password, sorry about this. I have an account but it doesn't work 07:28:29 and I'm guilty of just checking 1h before each meeting and forgetting about htis 07:28:49 I'll join at 11:30 07:29:32 W3C Strategy categories are described at https://github.com/w3c/strategy 07:30:28 MichaelGordon: We managed to move various things to the incubation phase in Amersfoort. MapML, WebVMT, stuff has been happening. 07:31:17 ... It always depends on who's around. Question is whether we're accomplishing things fast enough. From my perspective, we seem to be making progress. In terms of encouraging adoption of the Best Practices, we have some reports coming. 07:31:28 q+ 07:31:38 ... That's very good stuff. But it's hard to judge what would be a good pace. 07:31:38 q+ 07:32:13 RobSmith: I second that. A good way to measure that is to look at movement. Has there been activity in a given amount of time? 07:32:45 ... From the technical side, there hasn't been much review, that's true. But from a standardization perspective, the inputs from this group have helped me go in the right direction. 07:32:50 ack ChrisLittle 07:33:05 ChrisLittle: I was going to suggest that we should have some kind of timeline on the Web site 07:33:32 q- 07:34:24 tidoust: Right, that's in theory one role of the IG: to update the milestones that were in the Charter 07:34:28 ack billroberts 07:35:16 billroberts: The Best practices were the core activity of the Working Group back then. Now we have a bunch of different topics. It's a very different way of working. I'm not sure that we got it right yet. 07:36:22 ... We don't have the capacity to develop all of them on our own. 07:37:09 q+ 07:37:31 ... For new things, we need to have a bigger external group that is channeling efforts on each task. Perhaps we still have the expectation that we're actually going to do stuff in this group. That's an internal/external effort. 07:37:55 jtandy: So you're saying we're more in a coordination role now, and we haven't made that transition yet. 07:38:22 billroberts: Right. I think you made the point, as chairs. But still, it takes time to change the mindset. 07:38:37 Lionel_Wolberger has joined #sdw 07:38:38 joem has joined #sdw 07:39:45 PeterRushforth: Maps for HTML CG was an outcome of a workshop that this group started. The reason that we started to collaborate with W3C is that the Web is the most successful platform in the world. Idea to socialize the idea of maps being part of the Web. 07:39:45 q+ 07:39:58 ... You're lucky when other people pay attention to your ideas. 07:40:04 q+ 07:40:11 ... In theory, we all share the notion that spatial data are important. 07:40:21 ... As for progress, these things take a lot of time. 07:40:32 ... It can take a long time to get to a standardization working group. 07:40:41 ack MichaelGordon 07:40:43 q+ 07:41:14 IngoSimonis: The group does a good job reporting to OGC. The group could leverage ressources available at OGC. 07:41:17 q- 07:41:39 ... We have a mechanism in the future program to look at new ideas and reach to sponsors. 07:42:07 ... I'm pretty sure that we can help from OGC side to find ressources. 07:42:57 ... The issue is that it needs to be aligned with OGC initiatives. If requirements are known too late, that cannot work. That's something to keep in mind in your discussions. If you have a list of top 5 priorities, that helps. 07:43:14 jtandy: Typically, Maps for HTML has been supported in a Testbed. 07:44:12 IngoSimonis: Yes. It would be great if we could support right away. 07:46:03 MichaelGordon: For each idea, we have people driving them. Advancing something is a very different job from reviewing something. For new ideas, we need people driving the ideas for them to make progress. For best practices, we do need reviews. 07:46:23 ... Best practices are stuff that we are producing directly. 07:47:07 ... That's where we need to assess that we have the right set of ressources within the group to advance these works. 07:47:41 q- wanted to make the same point Michael just did 07:47:45 q- 07:47:57 jtandy: What I'm hearing is that the group is largely meeting expectations in terms of sheperding ideas. We can do better to leverage ressources, e.g. in OGC, to get work done. 07:47:58 q- 07:48:15 ... In that sense, we're providing a useful service. 07:49:23 ... In terms of mechanics, as we transitioned from a WG to an IG, we began with a set of teleconferences, but given that we have a bunch of topics with limited interest across the entire group, the attendance to these calls, especially considering timezone issues, was not so good. 07:49:52 ... The IG thus switched to a mode where it runs a focus week the first week of each month. 07:50:03 ... This month, we didn't do that because we were having TPAC. 07:50:17 ... Are the focus days a useful mechanism to "shame" people into doing some work? 07:50:25 RobSmith: Yes. 07:50:39 #tpac 07:51:34 MichaelGordon: In retrospective, yes, but I struggled to get the focus. Having the monthly focus is good. 07:52:07 RobSmith: It's a good way to write a summary of what has been done, more than just "I've been doing stuff". 07:53:03 jtandy: Would it better to change it from focus day to "this is what we want to achieve this month, and here's a retrospective of what we did"? 07:53:29 RobSmith: I think that people are more responsive during the focus days. 07:53:37 ... It might just be a perception. 07:53:55 jtandy: OK, let's part that thought and get back to it later on. 07:56:11 Topic: WebVMT proposal 07:57:03 sangchul has joined #sdw 07:59:33 [presenting WebVMT slides] 08:00:25 RobSmith: Web Video Map Tracks. A way of synchronizing videos with map track on the Web. This was proposed to this group in February in Amersfoort. I've been benefitting from advice of the group. 08:00:39 ... The proposal has moved from stage one to incubation in the Strategy funnel. 08:00:49 jtandy2 has joined #sdw 08:01:00 ... I'm going to give a quick update since Fort Collins, last group's F2F. 08:01:19 webvmt.org 08:01:22 ... One of the things that were proposed was to setup an engagement Web site. Now done. 08:01:41 ... It's a non technical description. It shows what it can do, and hopefully catches people eyes. 08:02:00 ... The site includes a number of tech demos, written in JavaScript. 08:03:12 ... [showing https://webvmt.org] 08:03:45 jtandy: In AR, is the idea of taking video footage and presenting in a Web environment a use case? 08:03:58 Michal: Pre-recorded footage? 08:04:06 jtandy: Both pre-recorded and live 08:04:59 RobSmith: Goal is to combine existing technologies to satisy the needs and requirements that are emerging from these new devices. 08:05:34 jtandy has joined #sdw 08:05:41 johnpallett_: WebXR exposes poses, which you can use to record orientation. There has not been any work to expose information such as Lat/Lon along with that info. 08:06:03 ... Within WebXR, one question is how do you do that in a privacy-preserving way? 08:06:54 RobSmith: If it's possible to record it, potentially there's a compass track, or an orientation track. The question is how to embed these details along with the video. 08:08:00 johnpallett_: Requires access to getusermedia. There's some discussion going on right now about augmented reality modes. Whether capturing and AR pose tracking can be one mode. 08:08:38 RobSmith: I'm considering different use cases. One of them is to create the track afterwards. 08:09:17 Michal: One role for recording could be to persist features in some way 08:10:51 RobSmith: We are currently focused on dash cameras for now. Possibility to upload dash cameras to the police. Currently, you have to click on the map to tell where it happened. 08:10:59 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-norfolk-45843691/shocking-dashcam-videos-released-by-norfolk-and-suffolk-police 08:11:29 ... It looks like an obvious win for WebVMT if there is a location track along with the recorded video. 08:11:56 jtandy: Just put some related article about the use of dashcam. 08:12:38 +q 08:13:37 RobSmith: An early adopter in the dash-cam market is implementing WebVMT for now. 08:15:02 Lionel_Wolberger: In the Credentials community, we have verifiable claims that could be a way to verify the location track. An aspect here is to claim that the location is linked to the actual footage. A verifiable claim could be a way to attach a proof that the video and location are associated. 08:16:30 ?1: There's a separate user gesture for geolocation and capture. There is no guarantee that you'll get both. 08:16:42 jtandy2_ has joined #sdw 08:16:59 WebVMT project page: https://github.com/w3c/sdw/projects/8 08:17:01 q+ 08:17:05 RobSmith: One of the demos is me, a bike and a phone and a little bit of editing afterward. It could be that you don't have access to the location information, which is a different problem. 08:17:35 ... It's only a recording format. The inputs can be wrong. Out of scope for this meeting. 08:17:45 WebVMT editor's draft: https://w3c.github.io/sdw/proposals/geotagging/webvmt/ 08:18:00 Michal: It sounds like the video and the recording data are separate pieces. Video formats are frame-by-frame metadata. 08:18:12 s/are/have/ 08:18:32 RobSmith: Right, there are formats where it's possible. I'm taking a different approach deliberately. 08:19:07 ... Using a separate file. Small text file. For a Web crawler, it's way easier to parse and index. 08:19:16 Q? 08:19:35 ChrisLittle: I also remember you say that video people are in their own silo. 08:19:38 Q? 08:19:46 ack Lionel_Wolberger 08:20:05 ack ChrisLittle 08:20:12 q 08:20:40 ChrisLittle: I was interested by the credentials discussions and wonder how to make a connection with the security group at OGC. 08:21:00 ... The Security Domain Group is the one I'm thinking about. 08:21:18 jtandy: We might come back to that discussion a bit later on. Some spare time on the agenda. 08:21:37 q+ 08:21:42 Lionel_Wolberger: Thanks, that would be great. We would like to socialize Verifiable Claims. 08:21:48 ack johnpallett_ 08:22:03 OGC Security DWG - http://www.opengeospatial.org/projects/groups/securitydwg 08:22:14 johnpallett_: There is a fairly wide range of tools in the media ecosystem. 08:22:46 ... When you have a separate metadata file, the workflow is not the same. I wonder if you've thought about it. 08:23:22 ... In particular about integration with existing tools. Any update to the video would require a possible update to the linked file. 08:23:45 RobSmith: Not yet. I'm aware of this. But I'm proceeding one step at a time. 08:24:17 ... Some way of putting a line on the map, of tracking objects, of linking objects and e.g. readings from sensors. 08:24:32 Q? 08:25:39 RobSmith: Back to the presentation. One of the outcomes of an OGC meeting is that there is a requirement for body-worn cameras to provide geospatial information. 08:25:58 ... I'm checking if there are similar requirements in the UK, that's a useful lead. 08:27:00 ... I'm also reaching out to Media folks here. The Media and Entertainment IG has a Media Timed Task Force. 08:27:34 ... WebVTT is at Candidate Recommendation. They support metadata cues, and I believe we can thread WebVMT as metadata cues. 08:28:01 jtandy: And so the point you raised, John, also applies to WebVTT. 08:28:18 sangchul has joined #sdw 08:28:54 RobSmith: For instance, the URL that links the metadata file to the video file is not in WebVTT. That's one of the questions I want to raise during the breakout session. 08:29:12 ... Back to use cases. Dash-cam focus, as I said. 08:29:26 ... In car race, cameras in car. 08:29:44 ... And police evidence. 08:30:29 ... Cyclists and pedestrians would also be able to provide footage, and you'd get interoperability between polices across the globe. 08:31:11 ... In the UK, there are apps that turn your smartphone into dash cams for insurance perspective. 08:31:48 ... Finally, at the Web level, I've done some work on integration with Mapbox GL. I combined that with Ordnance Survey Open Zoomstack. 08:32:13 sangchul has joined #sdw 08:32:21 ... At the spec level, I've added the data model and the syntax, switching from XML to JSON in particular. 08:32:35 ... There should be sufficient details for implementation. 08:32:53 ... The switch to JSON fits with the WebVTT design. 08:33:38 jtandy: From your perspective, you're seeing progressing. Some airtime with groups. Some momentum. 08:33:54 ... Are you shedding moss or gathering moss? 08:33:59 RobSmith: I'm shedding moss. 08:34:22 q+ 08:35:40 tidoust: Wondering about native support in browsers with the switch to JSON? 08:36:37 RobSmith: Yes, I'm targeting the "metadata" kind of cues in the track element. The metadata example in WebVTT includes latitude and longitude. I don't think that a lot of thoughts have been given to that until now. 08:36:44 Q? 08:37:13 ... Figuring this out with WebVTT folks is what I'd like to get out of this TPAC. 08:37:13 ack ChrisLittle 08:37:28 q+ 08:37:43 ChrisLittle: Obviously, the funnel process is working well for you. Have you got any ressource on top of yourself? 08:37:56 https://www.programmableweb.com/news/blackvue-provides-api-access-to-vehicle-dashcams/brief/2018/10/04?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ProgrammableWeb+%28ProgrammableWeb%3A+Blog%29 08:38:30 from https://people.w3.org/mike/planet/web-developer/ 08:38:41 RobSmith: Currently, not. And I'm conscious that I'm an Invited Expert too. I cannot keep committing ressources to it unless I get paid, which is what I'm trying to figure out as well. 08:39:13 ... I proposed a Community Group, and I could take a bit of support to create the CG. 08:39:39 -> https://www.w3.org/community/blog/2018/10/16/proposed-group-web-video-map-tracks-webvmt-community-group/ Proposed WebVMT CG 08:40:12 [I note anyone can support the creation of a CG] 08:40:13 Q? 08:40:20 ack brinkwoman 08:40:33 brinkwoman: I just want to verify that you're happy in the Incubation phase 08:40:59 RobSmith: I think so. Getting more early adopters is needed. That's why I'm focusing on the dash cam community for now. 08:41:26 ChrisLittle: How many early adopters do you need? 08:41:34 RobSmith: Two, at least. 08:41:47 Q? 08:42:05 [break] 08:42:13 RRSAgent, draft minutes v2 08:42:13 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/10/22-sdw-minutes.html tidoust 08:47:11 sangchul has joined #sdw 09:00:50 jtandy has joined #sdw 09:07:49 QingAn has joined #sdw 09:09:09 Scribenick: ChrisLittle 09:09:23 scribe: Chris Little 09:09:59 Now starting CityJSON presentation from Hugo Ledoux 09:12:23 No wew are not Hugo and CityJSON at 11:45 09:12:36 Now starting WebML , Peter Rushsforth 09:12:50 s/Rushsforth/Rushforth/ 09:12:56 Topic: MapML 09:13:51 MapML engaged with OGC and their Testbeds 09:14:06 s/ressource/resource/g 09:14:14 sangchul has joined #sdw 09:14:39 billroberts has joined #sdw 09:14:59 APIs are not web friendly enough, Javascript made it hard for map authors and other geospatial stuff. 09:15:11 billroberts has joined #sdw 09:15:14 MichaelGordon has joined #sdw 09:16:06 WebML desgined to be simple, using map content by URL reference. element was introduced into HTML in the mid-1990s 09:17:03 the element had initial traction, similarly to use of element used for layout. 09:17:53 MApML created to allow panning and zooming of proper maps. example shown. 09:18:48 content semantics are transparent. Base map plus links to features with shapes and geometry. 09:19:03 johnpallett has joined #sdw 09:19:08 Also allows navigation. 09:19:54 barrier to usage is the javascript requiring sophisticated usage. 09:20:26 map layers cannot use the 'source' semantics of video. 09:21:14 Hence invented, with source attribute or content 09:22:00 a map has default controls, such as to swtoch layers on or off 09:22:10 s/swtoch/switch/ 09:23:19 sangchul has joined #sdw 09:23:24 MapML is a 'fork' of HTML, with its own media type. 09:24:42 Very much like an HTML Form 09:24:57 mlefranc has joined #sdw 09:25:03 present+ 09:25:18 the content of the element is mainly input and links. 09:26:29 q+ 09:27:58 Question from Francois about CRS used in example 09:29:14 A key driver was to accomodate other CRS/projections other than Web Mercator 09:29:36 ChrisJarvis has joined #sdw 09:31:07 Currently supporting Lambert Conformal Conic, Arctic Polar Stereographic as well as Web Mercator 09:31:17 Envisage slowly expanding. 09:31:51 Question from Michael: why not use existing resources? 09:33:25 ack MichaelGordon 09:33:30 Discussion to be continued offline 09:34:47 Another question from Michael: progressive enhancement good, but where to constrain Javascript libraries?. 09:35:18 q+ 09:36:17 Peter: offloading some of the javascript heavy lifting into the browser, and advocating should be in the browsers. 09:36:51 RobSmith has joined #sdw 09:37:04 q- 09:37:19 q+ 09:37:27 ChrisLittle: why would browser vendors want to implementt his? 09:38:02 What about the resistance of browser developers to keep browsers small? 09:39:27 Peter's answers: 1. Web for everyone, not elite 09:40:34 Francois' comment about support of MathML, MusicML, ChemML in Javascript 09:41:26 Q? 09:42:24 Michael mentions some MapML itmes would be simpler in javascript than in an integrated browser 09:43:16 q+ 09:44:32 ack RobSmith 09:45:06 Rob: are you proposing a base API implemented as a small javascript library? 09:45:59 Q+ 09:46:26 Peter: HTML is so widely implemented, lowers barriers to entry to map creating 09:47:57 Rob: many javascript libraries need javascript skills toimplement a map 09:48:17 q+ Without a native implementation, I think javascript should have a way to extend the browser more formally. I think that polyfill and web components are one step. 09:48:28 Q? 09:48:37 Peter: accessibility is built into HTML and browsers 09:49:02 q+ satakagi to say that Without a native implementation, I think javascript should have a way to extend the browser more formally. I think that polyfill and web components are one step. 09:49:10 q- 09:49:20 s/q+ Without a native implementation, I think javascript should have a way to extend the browser more formally. I think that polyfill and web components are one step.// 09:49:40 Peter: everybody know werhe they are from their deivces, but not where other stuff is. 09:49:53 s/deivces/devices/ 09:50:06 Lionel_Wolberger has joined #sdw 09:50:26 Q? 09:50:47 Peter: HTML apporach allows things to ranked by locality and nearness 09:51:29 q+ 09:51:56 ack jtandy 09:53:34 jeremy: layer stacking is a new paradigm, not the same a current for resources in a browser 09:54:27 other resources, sush as video, audio could have this stacking property 09:54:56 Francois: no diffrence in work whether in browser or javascript 09:56:29 Peter: overlays are really important fundamental use case 09:56:52 for maps 09:57:06 Q? 09:57:17 ack satakagi 09:57:17 satakagi, you wanted to say that Without a native implementation, I think javascript should have a way to extend the browser more formally. I think that polyfill and web components 09:57:20 ... are one step. 09:58:46 MapML willing to work with polyfill toexplore appqroach 09:59:12 s/toexplore appqroach/to explore approach 10:00:31 Chris: question: is the parallel with video and audio content not good enough? Layers stay 'within' map content object and delcared methods/operations. Not quite a coherent question yet. 10:00:58 Set up for Hugo's CityJSON presentation 10:01:09 Topic: CityJSON 10:04:43 you can also all check the slides and I just speak 10:04:44 https://www.dropbox.com/s/xwkt9qqbra1ty8w/2018-10-22-w3c-cityjson.key.pdf?dl=0 10:04:54 Everyone rummaging for a mini-HDMI adaptor 10:05:27 PeterRushforth has joined #sdw 10:06:32 hugoledoux: re-caps history of CityGML and City JSON 10:06:51 Wants JSON to be the second encoding 10:08:21 Version 0.8 released. Software working. Some extensions supported: ADE... 10:08:48 which is Application Domain Extensions for schemata. 10:09:20 software is cjio at CityJSON/io 10:10:07 Version 1.0 needs some feedback from users, V0.8 reasonably complete 10:10:40 CityGML version 3 under development for last 8 months ... 10:11:39 but no apparent changes yet. Issues with software development not considered in the standardisation process. ... 10:12:06 CityJSON seen as a competitor not an extension ... 10:12:51 Problem is CityGML is perhaps too complex. 10:13:14 So no clear direction for future development 10:14:02 proposing to put on hold CityJSON standardisation... 10:14:51 Standardisation against CityGML V2 is a risk 10:15:47 brin 10:16:51 brinkwoman: I was observing CityGML. No consensus on CityGML data model. some thing too complex, others not. ... 10:17:07 no implementation evidence. 10:17:09 q+ 10:17:36 brinkwoman: main players are talking. 10:18:07 MichaelGordon: wider discussion in OGC on implementation evoidence as part of standardisation process 10:18:09 q- 10:20:10 jtandy: please engage with OGC as a specific issue. 10:20:27 Q? 10:21:53 tidoust: W3C aware of the issue in general and the CityGML in particular. Suggest send message to OGc 10:22:35 MichaelGordon: discussion has taken place by interesed parties. Some progress made. 10:22:56 q+ 10:23:08 Q? 10:23:25 tidoust: implementation evidence needed in W3C 10:23:45 Ack ChrisLittle 10:24:58 ChrisLittle: w3c approach been raised in OGC discussion 10:25:10 MichaelGordon: will add link to OGC discussion 10:26:01 hugoledoux: no javascript parser for CityGML after several years, seriously indering adoption of CityGML 10:26:49 q+ 10:28:01