14:00:12 RRSAgent has joined #tt 14:00:12 logging to https://www.w3.org/2018/09/20-tt-irc 14:00:14 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:00:14 Zakim has joined #tt 14:00:16 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 14:00:16 Date: 20 September 2018 14:00:25 Log: https://www.w3.org/2018/09/20-tt-irc 14:00:45 Present: Nigel 14:00:47 scribe: nigel 14:00:49 Chair: Nigel 14:00:53 Regrets: None 14:02:54 Present+ Pierre, Thierry 14:03:06 Present+ Glenn 14:03:18 Glenn: [Only available for 30 minutes] 14:03:21 Topic: This meeting 14:03:45 Nigel: Today we have CfC update, implementation report, IMSC vNext Reqs publication status 14:03:59 .. TPAC 2018 agenda, that's it I think. Any more? 14:04:23 group: [no more for the agenda] 14:04:28 Topic: CfC Update 14:04:59 Nigel: I sent the CfCs for IMSC 1.1, TTML1 3rd Ed and TTML2 as per our plan. They expire 14:05:09 .. on 26th September. So far I have had no objections. 14:05:26 .. Further, I see that we are in a good state in terms of document readiness for publication. 14:05:27 cyril has joined #tt 14:05:39 .. Thanks to the Editors and Thierry for preparing the docs. 14:05:52 .. Is there any more to do regarding document preparation? 14:06:11 Thierry: I think it is all done. The two drafts are ready for TTML1 3rd Ed and IMSC 1.1 14:06:15 .. unless comments come in. 14:06:20 Nigel: Yes. 14:06:28 .. So still need to complete the prep for TTML2? 14:06:35 Thierry: I'm not aware of that being ready yet. 14:06:41 Glenn: I will give that to Thierry over the weekend. 14:06:43 Thierry: That's great. 14:06:45 Nigel: Thank you 14:06:58 Glenn: I will be wrapping up the tests for the IR as well as moving the spreadsheet data 14:07:08 .. over to the wiki over the weekend, so we should be all set to go next week. 14:07:27 .. Thanks for your effort on #embedded audio. I saw your two pull requests so I will process 14:07:29 .. those as well. 14:07:31 Nigel: Thank you. 14:07:39 Present+ Cyril 14:08:11 Nigel: On the audio tests, we have completed work on almost all of them. 14:08:24 .. Our implementation now only needs to be updated to pass the clipEnd part of the 14:08:34 .. clipBegin and clipEnd tests, and the animate element. 14:08:48 Present+ Andreas 14:09:04 Glenn: Could you update the column for the adhere data in the IR spreadsheet for TTML2? 14:09:12 Nigel: Yes, I will complete that by the end of tomorrow. 14:09:57 atai2 has joined #tt 14:10:33 .. Looking at the rest of the TTML2 IR, are there more tests that need implementations? 14:10:52 Glenn: We're all set for the other features - Pierre recently added entries for luminanceGain 14:10:55 .. and disparity. 14:11:20 Nigel: Does that mean we have green on the T column for everything? 14:11:32 Glenn: There are a few for us [skynav] to do which we will complete over the weekend. 14:11:42 .. About 10 or so. We have done the work, just need to verify a few things and then 14:11:55 .. update the spreadsheet. Everything is green on there or will be by the weekend. I don't 14:12:00 .. have any other external dependencies right now. 14:12:05 Nigel: That's great news. 14:12:20 Topic: TTML1 3rd Edition Implementation Report. 14:12:43 Glenn: I updated our columns last night, so we have verified all of those tests passing 14:12:52 .. through the TTT tools so we are all set for 2 implementations. 14:13:04 Pierre: The only one missing is for Cyril to report what he mentioned verbally last week 14:13:14 .. that the Netflix implementation passes the anamorphic tests. 14:13:17 Cyril: I will update it today. 14:13:19 Nigel: Great. 14:13:39 Glenn: One thing I have to do on TTML2 over the weekend is update some references 14:13:45 .. with newer URLs for W3C references. 14:14:00 .. For example the CSS Fonts module finally made it to Rec today, so I'll update that and 14:14:03 .. a couple of other URLs. 14:14:10 Nigel: I was going to mention that also! 14:14:26 Glenn: I don't recall, offhand, but we should check if we have any informative references 14:14:32 .. in TTML1 that need updating too, Pierre. 14:15:40 Pierre: I'll do a quick pass through all the normative references in IMSC1.1 and TTML1. 14:15:51 Glenn: Check the informative references. I don't think any of the normative ones have 14:16:01 .. changed and we don't want to raise the substantive change flag if they have changed. 14:16:12 Pierre: Alright, I'll check the informative section because they are easy to update. 14:16:16 Nigel: Yes 14:17:07 Pierre: Thierry, can you send me the URL for the TTML2 reference that we need to make 14:17:19 .. from IMSC 1.1? When do we update it? After PR just before Rec? 14:17:42 Thierry: It's a tricky one. Right now I don't have that URI. 14:17:52 Nigel: I think we should do it on going to PR and then again on going to Rec. 14:18:07 Pierre: Thierry can you send me the URI? 14:18:17 Thierry: Can I assume they all are to be published on October 4? 14:18:19 Nigel: Yes 14:18:20 Pierre: Yes 14:18:29 Glenn: I've checked the TTML1 references and nothing needs updating there. 14:18:35 Pierre: Thank you. I'm checking IMSC 1.1 also. 14:18:46 Glenn: At least there are no W3C references to be updated. 14:18:58 .. It's possible the Unicode references have been revved, but we should not change the 14:19:02 .. normative references at this point. 14:19:06 Pierre: Alright. 14:19:16 Glenn: I noticed the Web Audio API went to CR, so we can update that one also. 14:19:21 Nigel: Yes, that's right. 14:20:00 Pierre: A quick question, in IMSC 1.1, the normative references to namespaces in XML 1.0 14:20:14 .. has a generic URL to TR/XMLNames undated. Do we want to freeze that to 3rd edition? 14:20:27 .. It's this issue with specref where it imports the full name but it uses the generic URL. 14:20:38 .. I'm thinking we should update the URL to point to the specific 3rd edition that we actually 14:20:39 .. reference. 14:20:52 Glenn: Whatever TTML1 3rd Ed references IMSC should match, do you think? 14:21:01 Pierre: Yes, let's check that... 14:21:16 .. Yes, 3rd Edition, specifically. I'll update that in IMSC 1.1. 14:21:23 Nigel: Yes, that's the right thing to do. 14:21:33 Pierre: I'll update the PR, please review to make sure there isn't a mistake. 14:22:09 Nigel: We've covered TTML2 IR, TTML1 3rd Ed IR, there's nothing to do on IMSC 1.1 IR. 14:22:25 .. Is there anything else on those three documents or their test suites or IRs to cover? 14:22:37 group: [nothing else to cover] 14:22:43 Topic: IMSC vNext Requirements 14:22:58 Nigel: We resolved to publish this as a WG Note last week. Thierry, what's the status of 14:23:00 .. that publication? 14:23:17 Thierry: The issue remains the short name that Pierre suggested to change, and I think you 14:23:31 .. asked the working group. If I have that approval then I will request that name to Philippe. 14:23:45 Nigel: Right, I kind of told the group what it would be and gave a small opportunity to 14:23:57 .. ask for something different, and nobody responded, so I think we can safely go ahead 14:24:25 .. with that short name of imsc-1.1-reqs 14:24:44 -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2018Sep/0101.html Email where I proposed that short name 14:24:53 Nigel: Thank you Pierre for actually proposing it to me! 14:25:16 .. Anyone have any comments on that short name? 14:25:19 group: [silence] 14:25:27 Nigel: Thierry, you can take that as a resolutoin. 14:25:32 s/oin/ion 14:25:56 Thierry: Can you restate the resolution please? 14:26:15 RESOLUTION: Publish the IMSC vNext Requirements for IMSC 1.1 as a WG Note with the short name imsc-1.1-reqs 14:26:24 Nigel: There you have it! 14:26:28 Thierry: Thank you 14:26:54 Topic: TTML Profile Registry 14:27:06 Nigel: Just flagging up that we will need to make changes to the profile registry quite soon 14:27:22 .. to include the new short codes for IMSC 1.1, TTML2 and any other requests that come in. 14:27:36 Glenn: [I have to drop off, bye] 14:27:57 Nigel: Raising awareness now, we need some issues and pull requests for this. 14:28:09 .. And reminder we need to deal with TTML2 content profiles as well as processor profiles. 14:28:20 .. I'm not sure what we'll actually do there! 14:28:40 Pierre: I've had no time to spend on this so I have zero opinion! 14:28:53 Nigel: OK! I think we're all in that boat, but we need to look at it. 14:29:14 .. We should have it updated around the time we publish the Recs. 14:29:27 Topic: TPAC 2018 14:29:49 Nigel: It looks like only Glenn and I are attending but I know lots of other people have 14:29:50 .. registered. 14:30:12 .. Agenda? 14:30:25 Pierre: We should just celebrate if we make it! Champagne for the agenda! 14:30:31 Nigel: [amusement] 14:30:38 Nigel: Right, the existing draft agenda at: 14:30:46 -> https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/tpac2018 TPAC TTWG page 14:31:04 Nigel: shows us covering IRs and PRs but we're on schedule to do that earlier. 14:31:22 .. It also shows joint meeting with M&E IG on the Monday, and the Chairs of that group 14:31:28 .. have proposed to me an afternoon slot. I think that works. 14:31:35 .. They did ask what we would like to cover. 14:31:39 .. Any thoughts on that? 14:34:57 Nigel: Also TTML <--> WebVTT mapping 14:35:07 Andreas: We discussed this for some time. I see no requirement to restart the activity. 14:35:26 .. If we want to bring this up to date to the current specifications it may need a bit more 14:35:37 .. than fixing the errors in relation to the latest WebVTT and TTML documents. We may 14:35:49 .. need to restructure the complete work. Also we have received little feedback on that 14:35:59 .. work. It was useful if you have the requirement to do the mapping regardless of the 14:36:12 .. inconsistency. We did not see a lot of interest in that work. If nobody strongly makes 14:36:21 .. a request to do this then I do not see a requirement to restart it. 14:36:34 .. We still have the problem for WebVTT that we still need to think about what kind of 14:36:44 .. mapping do we want, one that works in current implementations, one that works in to 14:36:54 .. the latest standard according to the newest changes? There are a lot of questions. 14:37:08 Nigel: Should we remove it from the agenda for TPAC? 14:37:12 Andreas: Yes 14:37:14 Nigel: OK 14:37:28 Nigel: What should we have on the agenda for TPAC? 14:37:34 Pierre: We don't have all the right people. 14:37:44 .. There's a flurry of activity on WebVTT then nothing. Any insights? 14:37:48 Nigel: I don't have any insights. 14:38:03 Thierry: I don't know any more. 14:38:32 Nigel: I would like to begin thinking about any requirements for TTML2 2nd Ed that are not 14:38:49 .. yet met, and possibly things like audio and live contribution, which we've long said we 14:38:57 .. would try to cover but have given little attention to. 14:39:04 .. We've given some attention to audio of course. 14:39:19 Pierre: One topic I would like to understand better is live subtitling. Maybe now is a good 14:39:33 .. time to do a deep dive and understand what should and should not be done by TTWG. 14:39:43 Nigel: I'd be happy to do that and take the group through the existing work. 14:39:59 Pierre: There's a lot of confusion about the use of subtitles in the live environment and 14:40:07 .. what constraints it imposes on the live stream multiplex. 14:40:13 Nigel: Yes, I'd be happy to cover that. 14:40:21 Andreas: I would support that. It's a good topic. 14:40:32 Pierre: People are starting to get more subtle with implementations and are finally running 14:40:36 .. into these issues. 14:40:47 Andreas: Yes and it's also good to think about how to explain the relation with what EBU 14:40:58 .. did with EBU-TT Live and IMSC and W3C. 14:41:17 .. It would be very helpful for the community to know what the TTWG position on the topic 14:41:21 .. and on the EBU-TT Live activity is. 14:41:28 Nigel: Good point. 14:41:36 .. Consider that added to the agenda. 14:41:52 Andreas: One comment on TPAC. The agenda is a bit unfortunate this year. I plan to 14:42:08 .. participate in the M&E IG meeting so I may miss most of the TTWG meeting on Monday, 14:42:18 .. and will be there on Tuesday morning. But in the afternoon there's the AC meeting, so 14:42:37 .. I'm not sure. I will only definitely be there on the Tuesday morning. The other slots 14:42:40 .. are not very good for me. 14:42:44 Nigel: I share the same conflicts. 14:43:50 .. It seems like our agenda is relatively light, so I would propose that we gather on the 14:44:01 .. Monday morning to agree what we want to discuss with the M&E IG, then spend as 14:44:21 .. much time as possible with M&E IG, then cover live TTML and future edition requirements 14:44:39 .. on Tuesday morning. Obviously there may be topics that we also need to cover, for example 14:44:53 .. AC review comments, anything arising out of the transition requests, or WebVTT might 14:45:00 .. be on the agenda if there is any movement on it. 14:45:21 .. So Tuesday afternoon remains available. I will happily prioritise the agenda topics 14:45:30 .. based on their urgency and importance at the time. 14:46:00 Pierre: I think that makes sense. 14:47:02 Topic: Meeting close 14:47:35 Nigel: We've hit the end of our agenda today so let's adjourn early. Thank you everyone! [adjourns meeting] 14:47:41 rrsagent, make minutes 14:47:41 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/09/20-tt-minutes.html nigel 14:48:59 i/Glenn: I will be wrapping/Topic: TTML2 Implementation Report 14:49:02 rrsagent, make minutes 14:49:02 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/09/20-tt-minutes.html nigel 14:51:19 i/Glenn: One thing I/Topic: Updated references to W3C Specifications 14:51:29 rrsagent, make minutes 14:51:29 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/09/20-tt-minutes.html nigel 14:53:29 scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 14:53:30 rrsagent, make minutes 14:53:30 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/09/20-tt-minutes.html nigel 14:57:08 dbaron has joined #tt 14:57:29 github-bot, end topic 14:57:36 dbaron has left #tt 14:59:05 github-bot has joined #tt 14:59:08 atai2 has left #tt 16:29:12 trackbot, end meeting 16:29:12 Zakim, list attendees 16:29:12 As of this point the attendees have been Nigel, Pierre, Thierry, Glenn, Cyril, Andreas 16:29:20 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 16:29:20 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/09/20-tt-minutes.html trackbot 16:29:21 RRSAgent, bye 16:29:21 I see no action items