19:49:48 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dxwg
19:49:48 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2018/09/04-dxwg-irc
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19:50:04 <kcoyle> rrsagent, make logs public
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19:52:43 <kcoyle> hi
19:53:03 <kcoyle> I think so; did the two agents + make logs public
19:53:48 <PWinstanley> chair: PWinstanley
19:53:49 <PWinstanley> regrets+ Antoine Isaac, Riccardo Albertoni, David Browning, Ixchel Faniel, Alejandra Gonzalez-Beltran
19:54:10 <PWinstanley> rrsagent, create minutes v2
19:54:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/09/04-dxwg-minutes.html PWinstanley
19:54:34 <roba> roba has joined #dxwg
19:55:15 <kcoyle> meeting: DXWG plenary
20:00:51 <annette_g> annette_g has joined #dxwg
20:00:59 <roba> present+\
20:01:06 <roba> present+
20:01:09 <PWinstanley> present+
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20:01:31 <kcoyle> present+
20:01:41 <ncar> present+
20:02:23 <annette_g> present+
20:02:59 <PWinstanley> regrets+ Lars
20:04:13 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> Jaroslav_Pullmann has joined #dxwg
20:04:17 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> present+
20:05:49 <plh> plh has joined #dxwg
20:07:15 <plh> plh has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2018.09.04
20:07:16 <kcoyle> scribenick: kcoyle
20:07:20 <kcoyle> topic: Admin
20:07:26 <plh> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2018.09.04
20:07:28 <DaveBrowning> DaveBrowning has joined #dxwg
20:07:50 <azaroth> azaroth has joined #dxwg
20:07:56 <azaroth> present+ Rob_Sanderson
20:08:00 <kcoyle> Proposed: approve minutes of 28 august
20:08:15 <roba> +1
20:08:15 <DaveBrowning>  present+
20:08:18 <PWinstanley> https://www.w3.org/2018/08/28-dxwg-minutes
20:08:36 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> +1
20:08:39 <annette_g> +1
20:08:43 <azaroth> +1
20:08:47 <PWinstanley> +1
20:08:48 <kcoyle> +1
20:09:14 <kcoyle> Resolved: approve minutes of 28 August
20:09:15 <DaveBrowning> 0 (not present)
20:09:16 <ncar> +1
20:09:41 <PWinstanley> https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/track/actions/open
20:09:41 <kcoyle> topic: Open actoins
20:09:48 <kcoyle> s/actoins/actions
20:10:41 <plh> close action-148
20:10:41 <trackbot> Closed action-148.
20:11:15 <plh> action-163?
20:11:15 <trackbot> action-163 -- Nicholas Car to Guide the guidance group to present some potential outlines -- due 2018-07-31 -- OPEN
20:11:15 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/track/actions/163
20:11:24 <kcoyle> ncar: 175, will discuss at meeting tomorrow
20:11:27 <roba> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/323
20:11:58 <plh> action-188?
20:11:58 <trackbot> action-188 -- Rob Atkinson to Open issue for discussion of how profile guidance addresses requirements -- due 2018-09-04 -- OPEN
20:11:58 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/track/actions/188
20:12:41 <kcoyle> roba: item 188 is issue 323 in github
20:12:54 <kcoyle> q+
20:13:10 <kcoyle> roba: in comment at the bottom of github 323
20:13:38 <plh> ack kc
20:13:39 <PWinstanley> ack kcoyle
20:14:19 <plh> Karen: I remember it as a back-and-forth with the individual requirements which hasn't been done in that thread
20:14:38 <plh> Rob: the issue was how to take the requirements on board. the role of the ontology in the broader scope
20:14:51 <kcoyle> roba: group will address requirements
20:15:38 <roba> "roba: about the options - 2 ways of looking at decision: 1) look at from profile description 2) how do we handle requirements in profile guidance?"
20:15:52 <plh> Karen: I thought we wanted a discussion about profile guidance and requirements in a GH discussion...
20:16:59 <kcoyle> roba: individual requirements will need to be looked at in the group
20:17:25 <DaveBrowning> RRSAgent, generate minutes v2
20:17:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/09/04-dxwg-minutes.html DaveBrowning
20:17:58 <kcoyle> kcoyle: would prefer that it be a separate github discussion
20:18:32 <kcoyle> roba: let's revisit that at the end of the meeting; I can't separate those concerns, of the options that we need to discuss
20:19:19 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: difficulty is the little time that people have had to be aware of what you've written; on the wiki pages we've been bringing out differnt proposals for the structure of the document
20:19:30 <ncar> q+
20:19:56 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> Jaroslav_Pullmann has joined #dxwg
20:20:18 <kcoyle> roba: this is not about the outlines, this is a proposal about scope; many assumptions
20:20:20 <AndreaPerego> AndreaPerego has joined #dxwg
20:20:30 <PWinstanley> ack ncar
20:20:34 <kcoyle> ... am backfilling behind options
20:20:34 <AndreaPerego> present+ AndreaPerego
20:21:06 <kcoyle> ncar: kcoyle already asked for the outlines to be discussed in the meeting tomorrow
20:21:19 <kcoyle> ... we need to look at all 15 requirements
20:22:00 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: can we keep this open? (#188 action)
20:22:57 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: ok to move to prof guidance discussion, skipping over dcat-rev for now
20:23:06 <roba> +0
20:23:19 <kcoyle> ... rest of discussion about profile guidance
20:23:29 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
20:23:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/09/04-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
20:23:47 <kcoyle> ... need to make a decision on how we will write the document and what it will contain
20:24:08 <kcoyle> ... depends on how we want to take in profiledesc vocabulary
20:24:35 <kcoyle> ... need to rein back from jumping to conclusions and look at bigger picture
20:24:40 <roba> q+
20:24:45 <kcoyle> ... what will be useful for a wide range of users
20:25:03 <PWinstanley> ack roba
20:25:09 <kcoyle> https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/ProfileRoundup
20:25:35 <kcoyle> roba: we shouldn't go back to use cases and requirements
20:25:50 <ncar> q+
20:25:57 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: document draft as it was coming out was leaping into solutions before a discussion of options
20:26:18 <kcoyle> ... we also need to look at whether we are bringing in profiledesc, and if so what is the approach we will take to it?
20:26:57 <kcoyle> ... in preceding weeks everyone was giving document links and asked to come with ideas for coming to consensus
20:27:20 <kcoyle> ... for how we will pitch the profile guidance recommendation
20:27:37 <AndreaPerego> s/was giving/was given/
20:28:17 <kcoyle> roba: the points in github address that process
20:29:08 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: the ProfileRoundup document gathers proposals, usecases, requirements
20:29:19 <PWinstanley> ... and discussions that we have already had
20:29:54 <PWinstanley> ... The document gathers 4 ifferent proposals for outlines for the document.  Some include ways of including profileDesc if we choose to do so
20:30:02 <PWinstanley> ... there are also models references
20:30:31 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: there are 3 models, they are fairly similar
20:31:03 <kcoyle> roba: the third one is a different scope of work, a way to describe mappings between models, doesn't provide a profile description
20:31:26 <kcoyle> ... no one has identified a model with the same scope
20:31:36 <PWinstanley> ack ncar
20:31:43 <PWinstanley> q?
20:31:54 <kcoyle> ncar: put in a final pull request for the profile guidance document
20:32:34 <kcoyle> ... given the discussion here it would be good to move the structure of the document forward in meeting tomorrow
20:33:12 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: what is your view of the outlines proposed?
20:33:26 <kcoyle> ncar: there is a list of documents at the top of the pull request
20:33:42 <kcoyle> ... not finished yet
20:34:17 <roba> q+
20:34:33 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: we've asked people to think about how they think of the profiledesc vocabulary
20:34:50 <kcoyle> ... asking those who aren't in the profiles group - what is your view?
20:34:51 <PWinstanley> ack roba
20:35:20 <kcoyle> roba: back to the list of propositions which leads to decision for whether the pd is necessary
20:35:49 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: the challenge is that we're bringing in to the proposals to the draft document something that is new, so we need to evaluate it
20:36:04 <kcoyle> ... we need to know if it has consensus within the group
20:36:20 <kcoyle> ... is it the right thing to put in place vis-a-vis the profile work
20:36:39 <ncar> q+
20:36:48 <kcoyle> ... need to have other folks coming in so we can show that this proposal has been widely understood
20:37:07 <kcoyle> ... we need to be absolutely clear about what are we going to be saying about profiles
20:37:25 <kcoyle> ... is profiledesc THE solution or A solution or???
20:37:45 <kcoyle> ... note that there are many folks who are not on the call who may have a view
20:38:17 <kcoyle> ... noting also that we need to look at the interdependency of our three deliverables
20:38:41 <roba> q+
20:38:48 <PWinstanley> ack ncar
20:39:47 <kcoyle> ncar: we've discussed the differences between profiledesc and adms; but there are things that pd has that adms does not
20:40:53 <kcoyle> ... what I think we're seeing is that the requirements we have are not satisfied by other vocabularies
20:41:29 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: we need to show the discussion that points us toward recommendations
20:41:57 <kcoyle> ... things have been going on without consolidation and we aren't seeing this in the document
20:42:04 <kcoyle> q+
20:42:30 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: the discussions need to be consolidated
20:42:33 <PWinstanley> ack roba
20:43:07 <kcoyle> roba: re:how are we going to address this is an attempt to move out of solution space
20:43:16 <kcoyle> ... profile is in solution space
20:43:41 <PWinstanley> ack kcoyle
20:46:56 <kcoyle> AndreaPerego: haven't caught up with documents; trying to understand the conceptual model behind profiledesc; using adms to see if there is an alignment
20:47:33 <kcoyle> ... my understanding is that profiledesc is filling a gap in the specific relationships and possibly can be used as a high level conceptual model
20:47:58 <kcoyle> ... other vocabularies can be used for other requirements like discovery of profiles
20:49:00 <kcoyle> ... what I was trying to say with the reuse of adms is that a profile is an asset; can focus on the relationships portion. Can use one or
20:49:09 <kcoyle> ... the other depending on what you intend to do
20:49:59 <kcoyle> ... profiledesc may be backed up by another vocabulary that does something similar
20:50:10 <kcoyle> ... need to do more review
20:50:50 <kcoyle> annette_g: generally I feel like I know less about inheritance than some others here but I feel a need to keep things simple
20:51:13 <roba> that was the purpose of antoine's exaplanatory diagram :-)
20:51:17 <kcoyle> ... I can read and understand what Antoine put together, has a good definition between machine-readable and human-readable
20:51:32 <kcoyle> ... profiledesc is more focused on where the classes come from
20:51:46 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: antoine was deriving diagram from profiledesc
20:52:12 <kcoyle> ... may make more sense to those creating assets
20:52:34 <kcoyle> ... in your work where do profiles come in and where you feel this guidance would fit
20:52:55 <kcoyle> annette_g: in my work i'm more interested in doing programming with it
20:52:58 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
20:52:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/09/04-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
20:53:53 <kcoyle> DaveBrowning: I need to catch up, but I don't have an opinion yet
20:54:24 <kcoyle> Jaroslav_Pullmann: I need to catch up, especially with the requirements
20:54:37 <roba> q+
20:54:43 <PWinstanley> ack roba
20:54:47 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: ok, need to spend some time catching up, and we'll look again next week
20:55:06 <kcoyle> roba: profiledesc is a straw man
20:55:21 <roba> +1
20:55:28 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: yes, that's understood. everyone needs to understand the space that this document will be filling
20:55:50 <kcoyle> ... the challenge is that it is not an existing standard
20:55:58 <PWinstanley> ack roba
20:56:33 <kcoyle> q+
20:56:57 <PWinstanley> ack kcoyle
20:57:14 <roba> can we choose a prefered place - #373?
20:58:34 <PWinstanley> action: DCAT group meeting report
20:58:34 <trackbot> Error finding 'DCAT'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/track/users>.
20:58:47 <PWinstanley> topic: DCAT group meeting report
20:58:50 <kcoyle> kcoyle: we will use github #323 https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/323
20:59:24 <kcoyle> DaveBrowning: were working on the next working draft; am focusing on coherence of document
20:59:57 <kcoyle> ... will try to get the draft out before TPAC
21:00:15 <kcoyle> PWinstanley: f2f could cover coordination between the three deliverables
21:00:18 <AndreaPerego> s/action: DCAT group meeting report//
21:01:42 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:01:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/09/04-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:01:49 <AndreaPerego> Thanks, bye bye
21:01:50 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> bye!
21:01:54 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> present-
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