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08:24:08 <alejandra> rrsagent, generate minutes v2
08:24:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/08/16-dxwgdcat-minutes.html alejandra
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08:31:50 <SimonCox> Meeting: DCAT team 2018-08-16
08:32:05 <arminhaller> present+
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08:32:10 <alejandra> rrsagent, generate minutes v2
08:32:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/08/16-dxwgdcat-minutes.html alejandra
08:32:10 <roba> present+
08:32:27 <alejandra> present+
08:32:36 <DaveBrowning> rrsagent: make logs public
08:32:48 <alejandra> rrsagent, generate minutes v2
08:32:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/08/16-dxwgdcat-minutes.html alejandra
08:33:34 <DaveBrowning> present+
08:33:48 <alejandra> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2018.08.16#Main_agenda
08:33:50 <SimonCox> present+
08:34:49 <SimonCox> topic: review agenda
08:35:00 <arminhaller> scribe+ arminhaller
08:35:22 <SimonCox> scribe: arminhaller
08:35:29 <SimonCox> scribenick: arminhaller
08:35:37 <arminhaller> topic: Profile description
08:37:24 <alejandra> q?
08:37:35 <arminhaller> agenda approved
08:37:39 <alejandra> topic: approve minutes https://www.w3.org/2018/08/09-dxwgdcat-minutes
08:37:47 <alejandra> +1
08:37:51 <DaveBrowning> +1
08:37:57 <arminhaller> +1
08:37:59 <SimonCox> missed some regrets:
08:38:16 <roba> +1
08:38:23 <SimonCox> andrea for last time
08:38:45 <alejandra> regrets: Alasdair Gray (ongoing), Erik Mannens (ongoing), Thomas D'Haenens (ongoing), Lars Svensson (ongoing), Andrea, Peter, Riccardo Albertoni
08:38:56 <SimonCox> +1
08:39:19 <arminhaller> approved minutes
08:39:25 <DaveBrowning>  rrsagent, generate minutes v2
08:39:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/08/16-dxwgdcat-minutes.html DaveBrowning
08:39:26 <alejandra> Topic: Outstanding actions https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/track/actions/open
08:40:15 <SimonCox> ?
08:40:40 <alejandra> q?
08:41:30 <Makx> yes close #84
08:41:58 <alejandra> Topic: Revision of milestone https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+milestone%3A%22DCAT+Second+Public+Working+Draft%22
08:42:31 <arminhaller> s/topic: Profile description/
08:42:48 <alejandra> ?q
08:42:55 <alejandra> q?
08:43:34 <DaveBrowning> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/milestone/6
08:44:27 <alejandra> +q
08:44:31 <arminhaller> DaveBrowning: Issues around milestones that are marked as 0% complete, but are closed
08:44:38 <SimonCox> q+
08:45:04 <arminhaller> ... suggestion to link the wiki page to each milestone, where the justification is for why the milestone was closed
08:45:34 <SimonCox> link to wiki, else to a issue query like https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue+label%3Aversion+
08:45:34 <alejandra> ack alejandra
08:45:35 <arminhaller> ... wanted to hear opinions on that
08:46:03 <SimonCox> s/query/group/
08:46:35 <SimonCox> I closed all the topic-oriented milestones. Perhaps I got the git flow wrong ...
08:46:45 <SimonCox> s/git/github/
08:46:46 <arminhaller> alejandra: two criteria for creating a milestone. one per topic, grouping issues, for example, for versioning. We changed recently, milestones now point to products, i.e. the next public working draft.
08:46:51 <alejandra> q?
08:46:56 <alejandra> ack SimonCox
08:47:21 <arminhaller> SimonCox: Agree with alejandra, milestones were being used for different purposes initially.
08:47:42 <arminhaller> ... I closed them, but I should have probably emptied them first. So that they don't have open issues.
08:48:17 <arminhaller> DaveBrowning: I am quite happy to add those wiki page links
08:48:46 <arminhaller> ... please hold off your tiding
08:49:29 <arminhaller> s/tiding/tidying
08:49:35 <alejandra> action SimonCox to clean up the milestons on github after Dave is done with the editing changes
08:49:35 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
08:49:56 <alejandra> Topic: Public comments list: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dxwg-comments/
08:50:28 <arminhaller> alejandra: There were more comments on the public mailing list. Simon responded to Melanie.
08:50:53 <arminhaller> SimonCox: Not sure if I properly addressed the concerns she had.
08:50:53 <alejandra> Topic: Profile description
08:51:29 <alejandra> sub-topic: Revisit discussion about profile description being broader and independent of DCAT
08:51:38 <arminhaller> roba: In the plenary there was a discussion around the requirements for the profile description ontology
08:52:33 <arminhaller> ... when we brought this to this group the discussion was that the profiles should have their own document, as they apply not only to DCAT but more generally
08:52:56 <arminhaller> ... but I can't find the documentation on this decision. I wanted to get the group to confirm this decision
08:53:25 <arminhaller> ... since this discussion we have also generalised a dataset to be a sublcass of dcat:resource
08:53:35 <arminhaller> s/sublcass/subclass
08:53:36 <alejandra> q?
08:54:07 <SimonCox> Can you make a concrete proposal roba ?
08:54:10 <arminhaller> alejandra: I have a vague recollection of this discussion
08:54:25 <arminhaller> arminhaller: I can recall that conversation too.
08:54:48 <arminhaller> alejandra: a profile could be catalogued
08:55:00 <alejandra> q?
08:55:08 <arminhaller> ... a profile could be a resource
08:55:32 <arminhaller> arminhaller: +1 on profile becoming a dcat:resource
08:59:06 <roba> PROPOSED: DCAT determines that the description of profiles is relevant to meeting some requirements for DCAT but since is broader conceptually than the DCAT scope should be addressed in the profile guidance deliverables
08:59:15 <SimonCox> +1
08:59:33 <arminhaller> s/since is/since it is
08:59:35 <arminhaller> +1
08:59:40 <DaveBrowning> +1
08:59:42 <roba> +1
08:59:44 <SimonCox> s/DCAT determines/The DCAT sub-group/
08:59:47 <alejandra> +1
08:59:57 <Makx> +1
09:00:17 <SimonCox> s/sub-group/sub-group agrees/
09:00:29 <alejandra> sub-topic: Discussion on whether DCAT should include a module for cataloguing profile descriptions, as per the DCAT-AP use case https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/238
09:00:34 <roba> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/blob/gh-pages/profiledesc/profiledesc_dcat_alignment.ttl
09:00:55 <SimonCox> s/since is broader/since it is broader/
09:01:30 <arminhaller> arminhaller: @base <https://w3c.github.io/dxwg/profiledes> misses the slash at the end
09:01:34 <alejandra> is cataloguine profiles in scope?
09:01:44 <alejandra> s/cataloguine/cataloguing
09:01:58 <arminhaller> arminhaller: or actually # and a 'c' at the end
09:02:43 <alejandra> q?
09:03:12 <arminhaller> arminhaller: +1 on first module
09:03:31 <SimonCox> is 'Profile rdfs:subClassOf dct:Standard` ? (I'm thinking about whether/how to include it in the Figure 1 diagram ...)
09:03:45 <arminhaller> alejandra: other modules align dcat with something else
09:04:00 <arminhaller> roba: yes, agree with SimonCox
09:04:26 <Makx> Making profile a subclass of dct:Standard makes sense
09:04:59 <arminhaller> SimonCox: The current summary in Figure 1 is incomplete
09:05:50 <arminhaller> roba: Should be up to this group and then bring it back to the plenary
09:06:25 <arminhaller> ... if the proposal is to explore to further develop the concept of a profile as a catalogue resource, we can do it here
09:07:01 <SimonCox> q+
09:07:11 <alejandra> ack SimonCox
09:07:23 <arminhaller> SimonCox: not sure if I am happy to make the decision now
09:07:56 <arminhaller> ... the scope of DCAT could be a second diagram, that is informative. But I am not sure yet.
09:09:12 <arminhaller> roba: if there is a home for the action, I am happy to do it. Maybe assign an action to me.
09:09:58 <arminhaller> alejandra: I am in favour of having the ontology, I am not sure it should be in the spec
09:10:07 <roba> q+
09:10:21 <arminhaller> ... same as with services, we say that we can catalogue them, but we don't make recommendations
09:10:25 <alejandra> ack roba
09:10:32 <arminhaller> roba: happy to do the same for profiles as for services
09:10:59 <alejandra> q?
09:11:06 <Makx> bundling all of it together makes the spec harder to use.
09:11:07 <arminhaller> ... the way you catalogue services can be used for profiles
09:11:31 <arminhaller> SimonCox: services are already in there, so what you propose for profiles makes sense
09:12:40 <alejandra> q?
09:13:55 <arminhaller> resolved: DCAT determines that the description of profiles is relevant to meeting some requirements for DCAT but since is broader conceptually than the DCAT scope should be addressed in the profile guidance deliverables
09:13:57 <roba> PROPOSED: treat profiles at the same level of detail and using the same mechanism as services in the DCAT specification
09:14:08 <alejandra> +1
09:14:10 <DaveBrowning> +1
09:14:13 <roba> +1
09:14:13 <Makx> +1
09:14:16 <arminhaller> +1
09:14:30 <SimonCox> +1
09:14:43 <arminhaller> resolved: treat profiles at the same level of detail and using the same mechanism as services in the DCAT specification
09:14:44 <roba> RESOLVED: treat profiles at the same level of detail and using the same mechanism as services in the DCAT specification
09:15:08 <alejandra> topic: Data citation
09:15:21 <alejandra> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/61
09:15:37 <alejandra> wiki page:  https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/wiki/Data-Citation
09:16:56 <arminhaller> alejandra: I included a pull request that included a creator and identifier for a dataset
09:17:14 <alejandra> s/included/am preparing
09:17:39 <alejandra> q?
09:17:47 <SimonCox> q+
09:17:52 <alejandra> ack SimonCox
09:18:14 <Makx> alejandra, there is already identifier for dataset in DCAT 2014: https://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-dcat/#Property:dataset_identifier
09:18:22 <arminhaller> SimonCox: identifier is present. creator is not present. title is, publisher is, resourcetype is, publicationYear is
09:18:30 <alejandra> thanks Makx
09:18:33 <arminhaller> ... the point here is to make all of the properties mandatory
09:19:05 <Makx> Making properties mandatory sounds like a profile
09:19:15 <arminhaller> alejandra: yes, the proposal is to make them part of the profile description
09:19:25 <arminhaller> +1 agree with Makx
09:19:31 <DaveBrowning> +1 to Makx
09:19:33 <SimonCox> e.g. the DataCite profile would make identifier, title, publisher, type, creator, issued all mandatory
09:19:46 <alejandra> correct
09:19:53 <roba> q+
09:20:05 <alejandra> ack roba
09:20:48 <arminhaller> roba: It is perfectly reasonable that we say that this requirement can be met by a profile
09:20:52 <SimonCox> q+
09:21:06 <alejandra> ack SimonCox
09:21:26 <arminhaller> SimonCox: we are not publishing profiles
09:21:41 <arminhaller> ... anything in this regard needs to be non-normative
09:22:08 <Makx> +1 to Simon: not publishing profiles
09:22:29 <DaveBrowning> q+
09:22:37 <alejandra> ack DaveBrowning
09:22:39 <arminhaller> roba: Yes, we make the recommendation and potentially an example, but informative
09:23:03 <arminhaller> DaveBrowning: Agree with the summary. There are quite a few requirements where we can say that they are met with a profile
09:23:16 <alejandra> +q
09:23:25 <SimonCox> q+
09:23:44 <arminhaller> ... it may become a bit tedious in the document, if we say all the time that this is not met by DCAT, and you have to use a profiel
09:23:53 <SimonCox> q+ to propose maybe a series of annexes in the DCAT rec?
09:23:54 <arminhaller> s/profiel/profile
09:24:17 <alejandra> ack alejandra
09:24:22 <arminhaller> alejandra: agree
09:24:46 <SimonCox> Currently we have this placeholder section: https://w3c.github.io/dxwg/dcat/#alignments
09:24:53 <arminhaller> ... it should not be part of the spec, but this is a nice example (i.e. the DataCite one) that we could use
09:25:08 <alejandra> ack SimonCox
09:25:08 <Zakim> SimonCox, you wanted to propose maybe a series of annexes in the DCAT rec?
09:25:25 <arminhaller> q+
09:26:14 <alejandra> SimonCox: datacite alignment is a combination of mapping and profile
09:26:36 <arminhaller> ... wondering whether they are normative
09:26:47 <arminhaller> ... maybe have some annexes
09:27:06 <arminhaller> alejandra: normative can be anything that is in the charter
09:27:14 <alejandra> ?
09:27:29 <alejandra> ack arminhaller
09:27:31 <roba> q+
09:27:31 <Makx> I would be reluctant to have lots of annexes. the DCAT spec should be a short as possible.
09:27:40 <alejandra> arminhaller: I can answer that question partly
09:27:53 <alejandra> ... a section can be normative even if it is not in the charter
09:28:08 <Makx> examples of profiles could be in a separate profile document
09:28:12 <alejandra> ... we made some arbitrary decision about what we included as non-normative
09:28:16 <SimonCox> +1 to armin's suggestion that we can decide what is normative ...
09:28:21 <alejandra> ... the process of whoever was willing to do the alignment
09:28:36 <alejandra> ... this is a really good example as profile
09:28:46 <alejandra> ... we can make a decision on how to include it
09:28:49 <alejandra> q?
09:28:53 <alejandra> ack roba
09:29:07 <arminhaller> roba: the normative part is in the solution space
09:29:19 <arminhaller> ... it is the decision of the group what you make normative
09:29:33 <arminhaller> ... a decision how you meet you requirements
09:29:56 <arminhaller> alejandra: i can take an action to continue on the DataCite example
09:30:05 <SimonCox> FYI potential taxonomy of dcat:Resources: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/blob/gh-pages/dcat/UML/Resources.png
09:30:06 <arminhaller> ... DaveBrowning will chair next week
09:30:11 <DaveBrowning>  rrsagent, generate minutes v2
09:30:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/08/16-dxwgdcat-minutes.html DaveBrowning
09:30:13 <roba> thanks all
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