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08:22:40 <SimonCox> meeting: DCAT team 2018-08-09
08:22:58 <SimonCox> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2018.08.09
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08:33:23 <arminhaller> present+
08:33:45 <PWinstanley> present+
08:35:39 <SimonCox> present+
08:35:49 <DaveBrowning> present+
08:36:13 <SimonCox> scribe: alejandra
08:37:17 <alejandra> We'll strart taking turns for chairing
08:37:40 <SimonCox> chair: SimonCox
08:37:51 <SimonCox> https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2018.08.09
08:37:58 <SimonCox> Topic: confirm agenda
08:38:45 <alejandra> agenda confirmed
08:38:49 <SimonCox> topic: minutes of the last meeting
08:38:55 <SimonCox> https://www.w3.org/2018/08/02-dxwgdcat-minutes
08:39:04 <SimonCox> +1
08:39:12 <arminhaller> 0 (wasn't present)
08:39:15 <PWinstanley> +1
08:39:17 <DaveBrowning> +1
08:39:19 <alejandra> 0 (wasn't present)
08:39:26 <SimonCox> resolved: minutes confirmed
08:39:45 <alejandra> Looking at matters arising
08:40:03 <alejandra> Action about dcat:byteSize closed
08:40:03 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
08:40:11 <SimonCox> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dxwg-comments/2018Aug/0000.html
08:40:12 <alejandra> Simon looked at mails in the comments list
08:40:54 <alejandra> Simon forward message separately to Melanie (in case she isn't subscribed to the comments list)
08:41:09 <alejandra> s/forward/forwarded
08:41:13 <SimonCox> Open actions: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/track/actions/open
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08:42:39 <SimonCox> q?
08:42:40 <alejandra> There are a few actions due by Andrea and Makx
08:42:44 <DaveBrowning> q+
08:42:53 <SimonCox> ack DaveBrowning
08:43:05 <roba> present+
08:43:08 <alejandra> DaveBrowning: you've got an action about qualified relations
08:43:20 <alejandra> ... we are circling around that topic in the latest calls
08:43:37 <SimonCox> q?
08:43:39 <alejandra> ... is that what we are doing?
08:43:39 <SimonCox> q+
08:44:07 <alejandra> SimonCox: I was a little reluctant to develop a generic abstract way
08:44:12 <alejandra> ... until we get a few examples
08:44:27 <alejandra> ... we've been finding cases where a qualified relations pattern would help
08:44:39 <alejandra> ... but my strategy was to let that emerge when we have a set of examples
08:44:53 <alejandra> +q
08:45:00 <roba> +1
08:45:30 <alejandra> ... this won't drift
08:46:00 <alejandra> ... trying to get the general evolve from the specifics
08:46:11 <SimonCox> q?
08:46:17 <SimonCox> ack SimonCox
08:46:20 <SimonCox> ack alejandra
08:47:00 <alejandra> alejandra: use of qualified relations in other specs
08:47:20 <alejandra> SimonCox: examples using prov
08:47:45 <alejandra> ... qualified relations from prov - we're pointing forward to a chapter on provenance patterns (currently empty)
08:48:04 <alejandra> ... another example, W3C organization ontology
08:48:19 <alejandra> ... qualified relations between people and organizations
08:48:34 <SimonCox> q?
08:48:48 <SimonCox> topic: wasGeneratedBy
08:48:48 <alejandra> https://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-org/
08:49:09 <alejandra> SimonCox: we discussed this briefly last week
08:49:21 <alejandra> ... preview of the recommendation document
08:49:37 <alejandra> https://rawgit.com/w3c/dxwg/dcat-issue71-simon/dcat/index.html#examples-dataset-provenance
08:49:46 <alejandra> +q
08:49:56 <SimonCox> ack alejandra
08:51:24 <alejandra> alejandra: as the property prov:wasGeneratedBy can be used to related to any Activity and not only a Project
08:51:38 <alejandra> ... we could clarify this and show examples about other activities
08:51:44 <PWinstanley> q+
08:52:07 <alejandra> SimonCox: going through the text that was carefully crafted to try and not to indicate only the project
08:52:39 <alejandra> ... didn't want to make lengthy examples
08:54:33 <DaveBrowning> q+ to say I might have an example that can be added, but not now
08:55:10 <SimonCox> ack PWinstanley
08:55:18 <alejandra> alejandra: just thought that the example could be expanded with other activities even if the objective here was to deal with the relationship between dataset and project
08:55:28 <alejandra> PWinstanley: we probably need to include some sort of vocabulary
08:55:36 <alejandra> ... to indicate things that are business as usual
08:55:45 <alejandra> ... lines of business, streams of data
08:55:52 <alejandra> ... looking beyond academic projects
08:56:15 <alejandra> SimonCox: let's make sure another example shows a continuous production process and not just a project
08:56:27 <alejandra> PWinstanley: yes, like IoT
08:56:43 <SimonCox> ack DaveBrowning
08:56:43 <Zakim> DaveBrowning, you wanted to say I might have an example that can be added, but not now
08:56:45 <SimonCox> q?
08:56:53 <alejandra> Action for PWinstanley to generate another example including a process generating a dataset
08:56:53 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
08:57:14 <alejandra> DaveBrowning: I've got another example that I can provide but not in time for the second PWD
08:57:20 <alejandra> ... but for next year
08:57:37 <alejandra> +q
08:57:53 <SimonCox> ack alejandra
08:58:24 <SimonCox> q?
08:58:25 <alejandra> SimonCox: if the document goes out of control, it can be refactored
08:58:39 <alejandra> alejandra: +1, the examples could be moved to a primer document or RDF files etc
08:58:45 <SimonCox> PROPOSED: Accept PR 312 to resolve #71 and as initial contribution to #76
08:59:01 <SimonCox> ... modulo the need for more examples to show breadth
08:59:11 <SimonCox> +1
08:59:16 <arminhaller> +1
08:59:22 <roba> +1
08:59:41 <alejandra> +1
08:59:43 <PWinstanley> +1
08:59:47 <DaveBrowning> +1
08:59:59 <SimonCox> resolved: Accept PR 312 to resolve #71 and as initial contribution to #76
09:00:18 <SimonCox> Action: dave to also provide wasGeneratedBy examples
09:00:18 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
09:00:37 <SimonCox> q?
09:01:16 <DaveBrowning>  Action: PWinstanley to generate another example including a process generating a dataset
09:01:16 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
09:01:36 <roba> q+
09:01:46 <SimonCox> ack roba
09:02:08 <alejandra> roba: how profiles are referenced within DCAT
09:02:32 <alejandra> ... my reading of the dcterms:conformsTo predicate
09:02:41 <SimonCox> q?
09:02:44 <alejandra> ... is that the concept of a standard is fairly vague
09:02:52 <alejandra> ... and we don't have a reason not to use it
09:03:00 <alejandra> ... so we can use it for distributions
09:03:10 <alejandra> ... to indicate what profiles it conforms to
09:03:27 <alejandra> ... a couple of other things: e.g. whether the cardinality is unbounded
09:03:36 <alejandra> ... and if you conform to all the profiles
09:03:39 <SimonCox> topic: refering to APs
09:03:46 <SimonCox> q?
09:04:52 <alejandra> SimonCox: assumptions you're making are reasonable
09:05:10 <alejandra> ... dct:conformsTo can refer to standards/vocabularies and it can be repeated
09:05:29 <alejandra> roba: the implication of this is that we need an example
09:05:46 <PWinstanley> q+
09:05:54 <alejandra> SimonCox: even in the normative part of the recommendation, you'll find that it says in text that the property is used in the context of the class
09:05:59 <alejandra> ... but it is not axiomatized
09:06:08 <alejandra> ... no cardinality constraints or existential constraints
09:06:11 <alejandra> +q
09:06:43 <SimonCox> ack pw
09:07:20 <alejandra> PWinstanley: we were discussing in the plenary is the business about consistency and appropriate location of things in the 3 deliverables
09:07:36 <alejandra> ... one of the things we might want to cover in our F2F is the three pieces
09:07:45 <alejandra> ... how they are shaping up, what should go where
09:07:56 <alejandra> ... cross-linking
09:08:20 <roba> q+
09:08:22 <alejandra> SimonCox: coordination is important, particularly between profiles and DCAT
09:08:33 <SimonCox> ack alejandra
09:08:39 <alejandra> PWinstanley: over the next month / month and a half we will need to take more attention
09:09:21 <SimonCox> alejandra: all agree that dct:conformsTo is suitable - use for now? or use at all?
09:09:26 <SimonCox> ack roba
09:09:43 <alejandra> roba: separation of concerns between profile guidelines and dcat
09:09:52 <alejandra> ... is that dcat will have specific guidelines for dcat profiles
09:10:04 <alejandra> ... dct:conformsTo to point to finer grain semantics
09:10:06 <SimonCox> q?
09:10:09 <alejandra> ... is a concern of dcat
09:10:23 <alejandra> ... profile is a subclass of dct:standards
09:10:53 <alejandra> ... the question is how strong will the guidance be in this document about if one should use dct:conformsTo to point to a profile that define finer grain semantics
09:11:02 <alejandra> ... how much guidance is appropriate?
09:11:19 <alejandra> ... is it a statement that we don't need to make?
09:11:22 <SimonCox> rrsagent: generate minutes
09:11:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/08/09-dxwgdcat-minutes.html SimonCox
09:11:37 <alejandra> SimonCox: do you have in mind what the examples might look like?
09:12:08 <DaveBrowning> rrsagent: make logs public
09:12:41 <DaveBrowning> rrsagent: generate minutes v2
09:12:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/08/09-dxwgdcat-minutes.html DaveBrowning
09:12:48 <alejandra> roba: fair enough, what is a good real world example
09:13:36 <alejandra> SimonCox: I've been relying on CSIRO examples
09:13:47 <alejandra> ... even if the live system doesn't rely on dcat
09:14:03 <alejandra> action for SimonCox and Nick to generate some EUDM examples
09:14:03 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
09:14:24 <alejandra> action for SimonCox and Nick to generate some EUDM examples to illustrate the use of profiles for fine grain semantics
09:14:24 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
09:14:50 <SimonCox> q?
09:15:34 <SimonCox> topic: Dataset size https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/161
09:16:36 <alejandra> +q
09:16:46 <SimonCox> is void:Dataset always RDF?
09:16:49 <alejandra> SimonCox: void for rdf datasets
09:16:53 <SimonCox> ack alejandra
09:17:39 <alejandra> roba: we used void for describing services
09:17:46 <alejandra> roba: we did a profile of void
09:18:17 <SimonCox> q?
09:18:19 <alejandra> alejandra: while some of the void properties are generic, others (related to triples statistics) are definitely for RDF datasets
09:18:39 <alejandra> SimonCox: this is to revive the issue
09:18:54 <alejandra> ... so that we can go over it again next week
09:18:58 <SimonCox> topic: AOB
09:19:00 <SimonCox> q?
09:20:16 <SimonCox> action: simon to create actions
09:20:16 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
09:20:41 <PWinstanley> bye!
09:21:21 <SimonCox> rrsagent generate minutes v2
09:21:33 <SimonCox> rrsagent: generate minutes v2
09:21:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/08/09-dxwgdcat-minutes.html SimonCox
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