08:22:05 RRSAgent has joined #dxwgdcat 08:22:05 logging to https://www.w3.org/2018/07/26-dxwgdcat-irc 08:22:13 Zakim has joined #dxwgdcat 08:22:40 Meeting: DCAT 2018-07-26 08:22:44 chair: SimonCox 08:23:02 PWinstanley has joined #dxwgdcat 08:24:47 regrets: Alejandra 08:31:50 present+ 08:34:18 roba has joined #dxwgdcat 08:35:07 Jaroslav_Pullmann has joined #dxwgdcat 08:36:03 DaveBrowning has joined #dxwgdcat 08:36:27 present+ 08:36:32 present+ 08:36:33 present+ 08:37:31 present+ 08:38:55 scribenick: roba 08:38:58 scribe: roba 08:40:38 Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2018.07.26 08:41:20 Minutes of last meeting https://www.w3.org/2018/07/19-dxwgdcat-minutes 08:42:34 proposed: accept Minutes of last meeting https://www.w3.org/2018/07/19-dxwgdcat-minutes 08:42:54 +1 08:42:56 _1 08:42:56 +1 08:42:58 +1 08:42:58 +1 08:43:02 +1 08:43:04 resolved: Minutes of last meeting https://www.w3.org/2018/07/19-dxwgdcat-minutes 08:43:25 Catalogues in which dataset is an undifferentiated set of files https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/256 Consolidated PR https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/pull/295 or see draft https://rawgit.com/w3c/dxwg/dcat-dataset-relations-simon/dcat/index.html#Property:resource_relation ready to merge 08:44:19 DavidBrowning will merge 08:44:45 Topic: Minor issue https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/64 08:45:08 https://rawgit.com/w3c/dxwg/dcat-issue64-simon/dcat/index.html#classifying-dataset-types 08:47:04 SimonCox: discuss complete docu to close https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/64 08:48:02 ...Question 1: legal for RDF to have multiple types - but should example separate? 08:48:22 I think we should have a simple case and a more complex case as illustrations 08:48:49 q? 08:48:49 ...Question 2: how to handle when type is not a resolvable URI - couple of examples shown - what do people want 08:49:31 q+ 08:49:34 I'm slightly allergic to blank nodes too 08:49:38 ack DaveBrowning 08:50:34 DaveBrowning: quite like example 08:50:55 ...blank nodes (squirming noises...) can live with 08:51:36 SimonCox: in as PR \ 08:51:38 ah, you are possibly talking about those constructs: 'dct:type[ rdfs:label "Text" ; dct:source "DataCite resource types" ; ] ;' -> what is the minimal model/predicates to go into the node to become a "valid" content type indicator? 08:51:58 q+ 08:52:22 DaveBrowning: if use blank nodes should be in a coherent way 08:52:37 ack roba 08:53:24 I think we need to be pedagogical too - people need to be able to learn from these documents. We are not writing them (only) for experts 08:53:37 Action: DaveBrowning to smooth out examples, including dct:type example, as part of editorial sweep 08:53:37 Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel. 08:56:31 q? 08:56:43 roba: is this a qualified forms example - and how do we "be coherent" in approach whenever it comes up? 08:58:26 ...architectural choice - can you rely on object URI dereferencing to get metadata or do we inject nodes to hold metadata? 08:58:51 SimonCox: there is no answer at this point.. 08:58:52 alejandra has joined #dxwgdcat 08:59:05 i think we can tidy with editing 08:59:11 ...can we merge and tidy up in editing 08:59:16 #Hi all, I'm travelling and unable to connect to audio 08:59:35 Proposed: merge https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/pull/308 08:59:38 +1 09:00:03 +0 (not over details) 09:00:11 +1 09:00:17 ... and tidy up doco in editting later per action on DaveBrowning 09:00:27 +1 09:00:41 resolved: merge https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/pull/308 09:01:09 ACTION: DaveBrowning to merge https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/pull/308 09:01:09 Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel. 09:01:16 topic: Initial examples of use of PROV for dataset Project Context 09:01:32 https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/71 09:02:06 https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/71#issuecomment-404059767 09:02:29 AndreaPerego has joined #dxwgdcat 09:02:40 present+ AndreaPerego 09:02:54 https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/71#issuecomment-404059767 09:03:01 RRSAgent, make logs world 09:03:08 RRSAgent, draft minutes v2 09:03:08 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/07/26-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego 09:03:35 q? 09:04:25 q+ 09:04:32 ack roba 09:04:47 Use of prov:wasGeneratedBy ? 09:05:29 q+ 09:06:32 q- 09:07:11 Alternative options: 09:07:14 With Simon's proposed Project Ontology, that is only one of several in this area: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.865.885&rep=rep1&type=pdf So we need to be careful not to hard wire that into the DCAt work 09:07:34 1. recommend use of prov::wasGeneratedBy, with potential side-effects 09:08:00 2. 'clone' wasGeneratedBy in dcat: NS, and manage alignemtns as much as desired 09:08:04 +1 to using prov:wasGeneratedBy 09:08:39 q? 09:08:47 +1 to option 1 09:10:21 q? 09:10:46 q+ 09:10:47 roba: can we just warn people of prov: and its potential entailment baggage? 09:11:42 +1 to guidance on using prov: 09:11:58 q+ 09:12:19 ack PWinstanley 09:12:54 I'm not clear about the potential side-effects, but in principle I favour to reuse prov:wasGeneratedBy rather than 'clone' it 09:13:30 PWinstanley: reason for using prov: ... if we clone our own we end up with nuanced versions and this "spins away" from Linked Data towards separet dialects of RDF 09:13:35 ack DaveBrowning 09:14:36 Proposed: recommend use of prov:wasGeneratedBy to give dataset context 09:14:46 DaveBrowning: agrees.. prov is a good tool or not - if need something very different use it 09:14:51 +1 to PWinstanley & DaveBrowning 09:14:53 +1 09:14:58 +1 09:14:59 I do not see troubles with the axiomatization of prov:wasGeneratedBy, since prov:Entity is abstract; but is there a way to express the "funding" Action? 09:15:00 +1 09:15:06 +1 09:15:11 +1 09:15:40 Resolved: recommend use of prov:wasGeneratedBy to give dataset context 09:15:43 I would say that funding is a property of the activity (one step removed from the dataset) 09:15:51 +1 09:16:06 prov is very activity-oriented ! 09:16:20 ok and the founder is an Agent 09:16:23 roba: and this is another qualified forms problem... 09:17:28 ... please look at Project ontology https://dr-shorthair.github.io/ont/project/ 09:17:57 q+ 09:18:49 q+ 09:19:11 ack roba 09:19:15 ...a straw man - no intention this is a recomendation - possible Note 09:19:45 in this proposal project is a specialization of prov:Activity 09:19:56 @Simon, the Project ontology is really interesting - I could imagine there are similar initiatives to describe (research) projects, e.g. http://mayor2.dia.fi.upm.es/oeg-upm/index.php/en/ontologies/81-research-proj-ontologies/index.html 09:20:45 yes Jaroslav_Pullmann - also see list here https://dr-shorthair.github.io/ont/project/#informative-references 09:21:56 yup!! 09:21:58 @Simon: "Project is an Activity", fits fine with the definition "something that occurs over a period of time and acts upon or with entities" 09:22:09 ack DaveBrowning 09:23:47 roba: how much should be try to provide options to plug identified holes in available vocabularies to meet identified requirements: 09:23:53 .. just out of interest: the the project funder (e.g. EC) would be related via the project ontology, e.g. proj:hasSponsor ? 09:24:56 DaveBrowning: talks about related work (please enter details....) .. quite like it - boss would expect model closer to specific needs 09:25:58 SimonCox: I work for an org that works via projects - others work on continuous production of data, governments may work on services 09:26:57 ...answering Jaro - previous projects have been through lens of academic grants (holding sides and chortling...) 09:27:19 ...shows pattern works not just for data generation 09:27:20 See Figure 3. for funding pattern 09:27:31 (answer to Jaroslav_Pullmann ) 09:28:03 rrsagent, create minutes v2 09:28:03 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/07/26-dxwgdcat-minutes.html PWinstanley 09:28:23 s/please enter details/we publish datasets continually so project is maybe not the best fit but something playing the same role/ 09:28:48 ...back to issue - proposed "wasGeneratedBy" - range is provActivity - time bounded things 09:28:54 @Simon, thanks, the "funding" is an important aspect of the provenance (~ influence) 09:29:26 roba: potentially time-bounded, but not forced to be so? 09:29:44 SimonCox: examples are all "instantaneous" 09:30:02 s/examples/examples in PROV literature/ 09:30:09 DaveBrowning: looked into this too... more later this year 09:30:28 q+ 09:30:34 ack AndreaPerego 09:31:06 https://ec-jrc.github.io/datacite-to-dcat-ap/#alignment-issues-agent-roles 09:32:11 rrsagent, create minutes v2 09:32:11 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/07/26-dxwgdcat-minutes.html PWinstanley 09:32:14 AndreaPerego: evidence to support the apprach 09:32:29 rrsagent, create minutes v2 09:32:29 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/07/26-dxwgdcat-minutes.html PWinstanley 09:33:22 bye!! 09:33:59 bye, thanks for an interesting meeting! 09:34:09 present- 09:35:45 RRSAgent, draft minutes v2 09:35:45 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/07/26-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego