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19:55:18 <PWinstanley> rrsagent, make logs public
19:55:33 <PWinstanley> chair: kcoyle
19:56:00 <PWinstanley> regrets+ Nicholas Car, Lars, Dave Browning, Ixchel
19:56:22 <PWinstanley> rrsagent, make logs public
19:56:34 <PWinstanley> rrsagent, create minutes v2
19:56:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/07/03-dxwg-minutes.html PWinstanley
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20:02:43 <antoine> present+
20:02:50 <kcoyle> present+
20:02:54 <PWinstanley> present+
20:03:02 <azaroth> present+ Rob_Sanderson
20:04:08 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> Jaroslav_Pullmann has joined #dxwg
20:04:15 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> present+
20:05:01 <kcoyle> can anyone scribe?
20:05:08 <roba> roba has joined #dxwg
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20:05:35 <kcoyle> scribe?
20:05:48 <kcoyle> anyone?
20:06:26 <roba> present+
20:06:31 <kcoyle> scribenick: Jaroslav_Pullmann
20:06:35 <annette_g> present+
20:06:57 <PWinstanley> https://www.w3.org/2018/06/26-dxwg-minutes
20:07:23 <PWinstanley> Topic: Administration
20:07:29 <alejandra> +0 (was absent)
20:07:39 <antoine> +1
20:07:45 <kcoyle> RESOLVED: accept minutes of June 26
20:08:07 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> topic: opena actions
20:08:11 <kcoyle> https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/track/actions/open\
20:08:45 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> the most actions relate to DCAT
20:09:22 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> kcoyle: will compare the lsist of requirements to ensure nothing was left out
20:09:37 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> s/lsist/list/
20:09:47 <PWinstanley> https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/track/actions/129
20:10:22 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> alejandra: there is an issue relating UC on profiles considering branches of ontologies, to be discussed with antoine
20:10:54 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> topic: subgroup report on DCAT
20:11:06 <kcoyle> Topic: DCAT subgroup report
20:11:12 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> alejandra: apologies, was absent last week
20:12:13 <kcoyle> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/239 use case discussed in DCAT subgroup
20:12:16 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> kcoyle: looking for past DCAT meeting contents ..
20:13:12 <PWinstanley> q+
20:13:16 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> PWinstanley: this should be approved by the plenary, the UC owners are not present
20:13:23 <roba> q+
20:13:23 <kcoyle> ack PWinstanley
20:14:30 <antoine> q+
20:14:32 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> PWinstanley: could the DCAT group move ahead with this UC, but it was felt to be officially voted on
20:14:54 <annette_g> is it controversial?
20:15:15 <kcoyle> ack roba
20:16:49 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> roba: this is a UC I am familiar with - arose from CONNEG group, UC to ensure it is valid for user to receive the right profile
20:16:57 <kcoyle> ack antoine
20:17:30 <PWinstanley_> PWinstanley_ has joined #dxwg
20:17:38 <alejandra> +q
20:17:52 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> antoine: maybe a redundand note, why this was brought to DCAT subgroup
20:18:07 <PWinstanley_> s/redundand/redundant/
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20:18:44 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> antoine: this UC needs to be approved by the right people (CONNEG)
20:19:22 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> antoine: it's quit complex, hard to decide in this moment
20:19:37 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> s/quit/quite/
20:19:45 <kcoyle> ack alejandra
20:20:08 <alejandra> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/256
20:20:09 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> alejandra: this is not the UC DCAT subgroup was discussing, this was a mistake ;o)
20:20:45 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> q+
20:21:17 <kcoyle> ack Jaroslav_Pullmann
20:21:32 <PWinstanley_> q+
20:21:46 <kcoyle> Jaroslav_Pullmann: this is about legacy datasets that people encounter
20:21:59 <kcoyle> ack PWinstanley_
20:22:03 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> alejandra: this is really a valid UC and we might vote on
20:23:35 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> kcoyle: comming back to UC 239, it demands more discussion ..
20:24:01 <kcoyle> ACTION: 239 needs more discussion by conneg group and reading and comments by everyone
20:24:01 <trackbot> Error finding '239'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/track/users>.
20:24:36 <kcoyle> ACTION: Antoine: 239 needs more discussion by conneg group and reading and comments by everyone
20:24:44 <trackbot> Error creating an ACTION: could not connect to Tracker.  Please mail <sysreq@w3.org> with details about what happened.
20:25:12 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> kcoyle: now at UC 256
20:25:18 <annette_g> okay
20:25:45 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> ACTION Antoine: UC239 needs more discussion by conneg group and reading and comments by everyone
20:25:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-140 - Uc239 needs more discussion by conneg group and reading and comments by everyone [on Antoine Isaac - due 2018-07-10].
20:25:58 <kcoyle> PROPOSED: accept use case "Catalogues in which dataset is a bag of files" #256
20:26:06 <PWinstanley_> +1
20:26:09 <antoine> +1
20:26:13 <alejandra> +1
20:26:21 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> +1
20:26:30 <alejandra> present+
20:26:31 <roba> +1
20:26:46 <phila> phila has joined #dxwg
20:26:46 <annette_g> +1
20:27:00 <kcoyle> RESOLVED: accept use case "Catalogues in which dataset is a bag of files" #256
20:27:34 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> kcoyle: looking at requirements on profiles now
20:28:10 <roba> the onus is on someone to demonstrate this is not necessary as every known example does this...
20:28:25 <kcoyle> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/238
20:28:46 <roba> q+
20:28:54 <phila> present+
20:28:57 <annette_g> q+
20:29:04 <kcoyle> ack roba
20:29:48 <kcoyle> ack annette_g
20:30:04 <roba> q+
20:30:05 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> roba: we might work on the wording but there are no obvious counterexamples
20:30:35 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> annette_g: there was a similar UC/requirements voted on last week .. let's find
20:30:45 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> kcoyle: which one was it?
20:31:16 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> kcoyle: comparing and guessing..
20:31:34 <roba> this link is to a Use Case, not the requirement by the way: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/238
20:32:05 <antoine> q+
20:32:23 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> annette_g: acknowledging, that profiles refer to standards ..?
20:32:48 <kcoyle> ack roba
20:32:57 <antoine> q-
20:33:20 <antoine> q+
20:33:22 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> roba: UC was discussed in the CONNEG meeting
20:33:39 <annette_g> there is discussion in the end of last week's meeting
20:33:45 <antoine> q-
20:34:25 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> roba: raising the question about de-duplication, how to deal with (is this a duplicate and if, how to deal with?)
20:34:33 <antoine> q+
20:35:03 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> roba: this was a general question
20:35:23 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> annette_g: what is the delta compared to the another UC?
20:35:39 <kcoyle> ack antoine
20:35:47 <roba> q+
20:37:03 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> antoine: we stopped to identify duplicates (in CONNEG talk?) and did not finished the wording
20:37:07 <kcoyle> Antoine suggests:  “some data may conform to several profiles at once” and that we should remove modular.
20:37:49 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> kcoyle: there is a confusion which UCs are we comparing / consideing duplicates
20:38:06 <kcoyle> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/238
20:38:16 <roba> i'm happy to consider them both and deduplicate now :-)
20:39:01 <roba> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/238 is an example to show its necessary - doesnt mean that profiles can have a depth of 1 level of specification...
20:39:10 <roba> s/can/can't/
20:39:16 <kcoyle> https://docs.google.com/document/d/13hV2tJ6Kg2Hfe7e1BowY5QfCIweH9GxSCFQV1aWtOPg/edit#heading=h.poqzq68p2cgj
20:39:47 <kcoyle> 12.1 Requirement: a vocabulary or data model can be a profile of several other vocabularies or data models at once
20:40:20 <roba> = multiple inheritance
20:40:26 <roba> q+
20:40:26 <azaroth> q+
20:40:30 <kcoyle> ack roba
20:40:39 <annette_g> q+
20:41:01 <kcoyle> ack azaroth
20:41:06 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> roba: this will introduce effectively multiple inheritance (pattern)
20:41:58 <roba> q+
20:42:04 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> azaroth: may I ask for a general recap, esp. distinction of profile vs. vocabulary - what does define a profile
20:42:08 <kcoyle> ack annette_g
20:42:12 <alejandra> +q
20:42:30 <kcoyle> ack roba
20:42:43 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> annette_g: there is no real reference to what a profile does
20:43:07 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> roba: reusing vocabs is not exactly what a profile does - it's about constraints
20:43:17 <kcoyle> A <dfn>profile</dfn> is a named set of constraints on one or more identified base specifications,       including the identification of any implementing subclasses of datatypes,       semantic interpretations, vocabularies, options and parameters of those base specifications       necessary to accomplish a particular function.
20:43:25 <kcoyle> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/blob/gh-pages/profiles/index.html
20:43:29 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> roba: ... to compare conformat instance to
20:43:45 <kcoyle> q?
20:44:19 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> roba: the itent is a different one: profile -> constraint specification
20:44:29 <kcoyle> ack alejandra
20:44:42 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> alejandra: agree with this view
20:45:47 <phila> q+
20:45:48 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> alejandra: we migth clarify a requirement on profiles - profiles as a function applied on an entity (e.g. vocabulary)
20:45:54 <kcoyle> ack phila
20:46:24 <annette_g> q+
20:46:29 <kcoyle> ack annette_g
20:46:31 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> phila: vocabularies are set of terms, profiles: indication of re-usability constraints
20:46:32 <roba> +1 phil
20:46:37 <alejandra> +1 to Phil
20:46:48 <roba> also +1
20:46:57 <azaroth> q+
20:47:01 <phila> +1 to annette_g
20:47:07 <kcoyle> ack azaroth
20:47:28 <antoine> q+
20:47:30 <roba> only speclialise - not change - as per working definition
20:47:40 <phila> Yes, that azaroth
20:47:44 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> azaroth: .. what about modify in UC, may a profile change semantics (of a term)?
20:47:54 <kcoyle> ack antoine
20:48:27 <annette_g> +1 to antoine
20:48:29 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> antoine: there is no UC for a profile that would modify the meaning
20:48:29 <azaroth> +1
20:49:07 <annette_g> q+
20:49:19 <kcoyle> ack annette_g
20:49:24 <azaroth> A profile that /includes/ terms from schema and dc, or a profile /of/ those vocabularies?
20:49:36 <roba> q+
20:49:52 <kcoyle> ack roba
20:50:13 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> kcoyle: could we capture this clarified notion of "profile"
20:50:43 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> roba: statement of how to interoperate by means of conformance
20:51:11 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> .. that ideally can be tested
20:51:20 <azaroth> Something like:   A profile may use terms [weasel-words] from several other vocabularies, profiles or data models at the same time, adding additional constraints to the semantics or usage, but without having that usage be incompatible with data instances that use those terms without the profile.
20:51:24 <phila> +1 to roba
20:51:44 <annette_g> q+
20:52:05 <kcoyle> ack annette_g
20:52:11 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> roba: profile is a statement of interoperability
20:52:39 <roba> q+
20:52:58 <kcoyle> ack roba
20:52:58 <azaroth> q+ to be -0.9 on expanding
20:53:17 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> annette_g: how to deal with extension of (enumarated) lists
20:53:48 <azaroth> +1 to RobA
20:53:59 <antoine> +1
20:54:12 <annette_g> q+
20:54:31 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> roba: conformance to profile = conformance to "base specification"
20:54:44 <kcoyle> ack azaroth
20:54:44 <Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to be -0.9 on expanding
20:54:44 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> kcoyle: there might be mor  than one "base specification"
20:55:20 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> azaroth: difference between enumerations and code lists
20:55:28 <kcoyle> ack annette_g
20:56:00 <azaroth> q+ to ask about OWL axioms and rules as counting towards profiles?
20:56:12 <kcoyle> ack azaroth
20:56:12 <Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to ask about OWL axioms and rules as counting towards profiles?
20:56:29 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> kcoyle: refer to profile as a "minimal" constraint
20:57:03 <kcoyle> s/profile/vocabulary
20:57:25 <roba> q+
20:57:31 <roba> q-
20:57:33 <azaroth> I can make an issue for it :)
20:57:34 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> azaroth: are OWL axioms valid means of profiling?
20:57:41 <roba> thats an issue with prov - not the concept of profiules
20:58:14 <antoine> +1 to expand a bit the definition, rather than the original requirement that we started with :-)
20:58:21 <antoine> q+
20:58:23 <alejandra> +q
20:58:27 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> kcoyle: how to proceed with the UC?
20:58:29 <kcoyle> ack antoine
20:58:30 <annette_g> +1 for rewording at this point
20:58:33 <roba> we need it - if we need it reworded so be it...
20:59:11 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> antoine: not in favor of rewording - better to add to profile definition itself
20:59:29 <alejandra> The requirement we were discussing was: "12.1 Requirement: a vocabulary or data model can be a profile of several other vocabularies or data models at once"
20:59:42 <azaroth> Yes a definition, not a use case!
21:00:07 <alejandra> q-
21:00:30 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> antoine: we should add it to definition of profile document
21:01:08 <phila> try this -  A vocabulary/schema provides terms within a data model, which may be fairly broad. A profile sets out how a vocabulary, or set of vocabularies are used, usually as a set of constraints that ensure that systems are interoperable.
21:01:43 <alejandra> +q
21:01:44 <roba> +1
21:01:53 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> kcoyle: suggestion to accept and add to document
21:01:55 <kcoyle> ack alejandra
21:02:06 <antoine> +1 I feel I could discuss 'constraints' but I think we should call it a day :-)
21:02:13 <antoine> q+
21:02:14 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> alejandra: .. profile of "what"? What is the entity a profile is applied on?
21:02:50 <kcoyle> q?
21:02:54 <kcoyle> ack antoine
21:03:30 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> antoine: profile of one or more vocabularies
21:03:55 <kcoyle> ACTION: on phila to add his wording to the profiles document
21:03:55 <trackbot> Error finding 'on'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/track/users>.
21:04:18 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> ACTION phila: add his wording to the profiles document
21:04:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-141 - Add his wording to the profiles document [on Phil Archer - due 2018-07-10].
21:04:44 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> kcoyle: we'll meet next week
21:05:06 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> please circulate topics you'd like to discuss
21:05:50 <alejandra> thanks, and bye!
21:05:54 <annette_g> bye!
21:05:55 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> rrsagent: draft minutes v2
21:05:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/07/03-dxwg-minutes.html Jaroslav_Pullmann
21:06:06 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> bye!
21:06:23 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> meeting: Weekly DXWG
21:06:40 <kcoyle> rrsagent: draft minutes v2
21:06:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/07/03-dxwg-minutes.html kcoyle
21:06:47 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> bye!
21:06:49 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> present-
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