14:02:13 RRSAgent has joined #tt 14:02:13 logging to https://www.w3.org/2018/06/28-tt-irc 14:02:15 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:02:15 Zakim has joined #tt 14:02:17 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 14:02:17 Date: 28 June 2018 14:02:43 Log: https://www.w3.org/2018/06/28-tt-irc 14:03:42 tmichel has joined #tt 14:03:54 cyril has joined #tt 14:05:07 Present: Cyril, Glenn, Pierre, Thierry, Nigel 14:05:10 Regrets: Andreas 14:05:27 Chair: Nigel 14:05:31 scribe: nigel 14:05:51 Topic: This meeting 14:07:33 Nigel: Agenda for today - I suggest we go through TTML1, TTML2, IMSC vNext Reqs, 14:07:43 .. IMSC 1.1, CSS actions. Will that work? 14:08:00 .. Any other business or something to make sure we cover? 14:08:06 group: [silence] 14:08:15 Nigel: Okay let's go. 14:08:18 Topic: TTML1 14:08:41 Nigel: I think the status is we are awaiting tests for the implementation report? 14:08:57 Pierre: Yes, no bandwidth to deal with this recently. There are some changes made 14:09:04 .. recently in TTML2 that should be backported to TTML1. 14:09:20 .. The line stacking strategy text in TTML1 3rd Ed probably needs fixing. 14:09:27 .. I should raise an issue now... 14:09:34 .. [raises issues on GitHub] 14:10:04 Nigel: Does that mean we need to make normative changes and aim for a TTML1 3rd Ed CR2? 14:10:19 Pierre: I don't know. 14:10:36 Glenn: Reminder that TTML2 CR2 references TTML1 2nd Ed and that's what I expect to go out the door with. 14:10:38 Nigel: Ooh. 14:10:53 Pierre: That goes back to the question of whether we reference a dated or undated version. 14:11:33 Nigel: My expectation was that TTML2 would reference TTML1 3rd Ed, and the reason 14:11:45 .. we are working on TTML1 3rd Ed is to reduce the delta to TTML2. 14:12:23 Pierre: TTML2 #806 needs backporting to TTML1 3rd Ed. Clarify Meaning of Font Properties applying to a paragraph. 14:12:44 Glenn: We added some language in TTML2 that documents that previously implicit 14:12:57 .. usage of some style state data as an input to the line height normal calculation. 14:13:03 Pierre: Do you think that's necessary to add to TTML1? 14:13:12 Glenn: It wouldn't hurt to add a note. 14:13:19 Pierre: That's TTML2 #785. 14:13:42 Nigel: There's clearly some work to look at the backporting tasks and work out if anything 14:13:47 .. substantive needs to change. 14:14:54 ACTION: Pierre to look at TTML2 backporting to TTML1 3rd Ed to see if we can change the ref from TTML2 to point to 3rd Ed. 14:14:55 Created ACTION-513 - Look at ttml2 backporting to ttml1 3rd ed to see if we can change the ref from ttml2 to point to 3rd ed. [on Pierre-Anthony Lemieux - due 2018-07-05]. 14:15:25 Glenn: If that delays TTML2 going to Rec that would be a problem. If TTML1 3rd Ed 14:15:36 .. can be a Rec before TTML2 then that would be okay. 14:15:47 .. Have we made any substantive changes to TTML1 3rd Ed CR? 14:15:48 Pierre: No 14:15:50 Nigel: No 14:16:03 Glenn: That would mean we may be able to make non-substantive changes in notes, 14:16:08 .. which I would have no problem doing. 14:16:13 Nigel: Agreed. 14:16:26 Pierre: I thought you had said that the TTML1 line height normal calculation text was 14:16:33 .. wrong - if you have some time to look at this today that would be great. 14:16:45 Glenn: It's my opinion you can fix any semantic problem to some extent with an 14:16:59 .. informative note as a fallback. Syntactic changes - that's a problem. We have 14:17:06 .. latitude on how we craft non-normative notes. 14:17:46 Nigel: That's a good call to action for looking at TTML1 3rd Ed again. Any more for TTML1? 14:17:57 Glenn: Pierre, when you published TTML1 3rd Ed CR did you tag it as a release? 14:18:01 Pierre: Yes, I did. 14:18:10 Glenn: Okay, good. I've just today created a release on TTML2. 14:18:17 Pierre: TTML1 3rd Ed CR1. 14:18:31 Topic: TTML2 14:18:49 Nigel: Thierry thank you for your work getting us to CR2 and your announcement to 14:18:52 .. the group earlier today. 14:19:25 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml2/ TTML2 CR2 14:19:37 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/2018/CR-ttml2-20180628/ TTML2 CR2 dated URL 14:20:13 action-443? 14:20:13 action-443 -- Glenn Adams to Prepare a document showing mapping arib ruby extension features to ttml2 for use as a liaison document to arib. -- due 2018-06-15 -- OPEN 14:20:13 https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/443 14:20:47 Glenn: I will pick this up again, it's on my work list. 14:22:10 Nigel: Can we do this so we can send it before the deadline for comments has closed? 14:22:16 Glenn: Okay, make the deadline next week. 14:22:21 Nigel: [adjusts the action] 14:22:30 Glenn: By the way I will be absent 12-19 July. 14:22:43 Nigel: I will be absent from 10 August for 2 weeks. 14:22:51 Pierre: I will be absent from 15 August for 1 week. 14:23:04 Cyril: I will be absent in July except for 16-20. 14:23:44 Nigel: Glenn, I see you merged something into the ttml2-tests repo. 14:23:56 Glenn: Yes I started populating tests from those that we produced for TTV. I've already 14:24:07 .. switched TTV over to use the contents of that repo live so whatever changes I'm making 14:24:17 .. in the ttml2-tests repo will impact TTV in real time. 14:24:30 .. I'm starting to go through the list of all the new features in TTML2 and verifying that 14:24:42 .. there are both positive and negative tests related to validation. I'm focusing on 14:24:54 .. validation tests to start with. It's going pretty quickly, I'll probably get through that 14:25:04 .. in the next week or two before I go on holiday. Then I'll be populating it with 14:25:13 .. presentation tests from TTPE and creating new tests as well. 14:25:18 Nigel: That's good. 14:25:33 Glenn: Other people can begin to review them. Until I give the signal that I've reviewed 14:25:44 .. them all and tweaked them to check they're in a state others can use you might not 14:25:56 .. want to spend much time on it unless you're really energetic. I wouldn't file issues 14:26:03 .. against tests in there until I give the all clear signal. 14:26:34 Nigel: Okay, then after that signal we should go into a more pull request controlled mode. 14:26:51 Glenn: That was my thinking, I don't want the standard protocol yet while I'm experimenting 14:26:56 .. with the structural organisation etc. 14:27:02 Nigel: Is that okay with everyone? 14:27:07 group: [silence] 14:27:13 Nigel: OK let's proceed like that. 14:27:16 .. Thank you. 14:27:48 Glenn: I should mention I'm also updating TTV along the way to get it back in sync with TTML2. 14:28:07 Nigel: There have been some updates on issues but there's nothing marked on the agenda. 14:28:11 .. There are no open pulls. 14:28:21 Glenn: I just closed CR2 milestone by the way. 14:28:37 .. There are 8 issues open assigned to the PR milestone. 2 are questions from Andreas 14:28:51 .. that may only result in editorial clarification changes. I'll be starting processing those 14:29:02 .. probably today and put some pull requests in place if there are editorial changes needed. 14:29:19 .. I'd like to ask about the two issues assigned to Nigel that are related to wide review. 14:29:31 Nigel: Yes, this is really bad of me not to have completed them. 14:29:44 Glenn: As far as I can tell they can be closed after the memos have been drafted. 14:29:51 Nigel: The memos need sending too. 14:30:59 Nigel: I'm aware, I just haven't got around to them. I may be able to manage them on 14:31:06 .. Thursday morning next week before this meeting. 14:31:25 .. By the way they are ttml2 #443 and #460. 14:31:39 Nigel: Anything else for TTML2? 14:32:02 Cyril: I've started looking at the wiki page for the TTML2 implementation report but it 14:32:14 .. is hard to edit with 200 features so I started doing a spreadsheet. The idea is to 14:32:25 .. fill that in first and then when we're confident it won't change too much we can 14:32:36 .. convert it to a wiki page for the report. I'm still in the process of building that for 14:32:40 .. Netflix. 14:32:46 Glenn: Its a Google docs spreadsheet. 14:33:05 Glenn: I'm sharing it with Nigel and Pierre at the moment. Should I add Andreas too? 14:33:16 Nigel: Yes, and Thierry too please. 14:33:38 Glenn: Right now there are four or five colums, two for TTPE and TTVE and similarly for 14:33:55 .. Netflix internal implementations and a penned-in IMSC.js column in case Pierre is 14:34:08 .. likely to implement any TTML2 features even in the context of IMSC 1.1 14:34:15 Nigel: Sounds good, I'll review offline. 14:34:22 Cyril: I just shared it. 14:34:33 .. It's to make it more convenient for editing especially at the beginning. 14:34:53 Glenn: By the way in that spreadsheet all the TTML1 feature rows are present for 14:35:00 .. completeness but hidden. 14:35:23 .. I'm going down the TTV column and updating it as I verify test suite materials so I 14:35:33 .. expect there to be quite a bit of updating going on over the CR2 period? 14:35:40 Cyril: Can you put the legend of the colours somewhere? 14:35:47 Glenn: Yes I'll do that. 14:36:01 .. Right now the TTV cell has information on the colours. 14:36:33 Nigel: Thank you all, that sounds like good progress. 14:36:41 Topic: IMSC vNext Requirements 14:37:39 Pierre: We need to decide on blurred for text shadow. 14:37:47 Nigel: If we can look at rw and rh too that would be good. 14:39:09 Topic: Exclude support for blur radius in tts:textShadow imsc-vnext-reqs#27 14:39:15 github: https://github.com/w3c/imsc-vnext-reqs/issues/27 14:39:57 Nigel: Last time we discussed I was going to look for supporting use cases and I haven't 14:40:02 .. had chance to do that yet, which is not ideal. 14:40:14 Pierre: It's supported by CSS and in the worst case an implementation that does not 14:40:25 .. support it can not use it and the fallback is not so bad. This was more for completeness 14:40:36 .. to match textOutline. If there's any doubt I would close this issue and move on. 14:40:58 Nigel: Makes sense to me, close with no change because textShadow blur is currently permitted. 14:41:20 Pierre: Yes, I don't have any data point that says it is a huge burden to implement. 14:41:26 Nigel: It's not the same functionality as blur on textOutline. 14:41:43 PROPOSAL: Close this issue with no change. 14:41:48 Nigel: Any other views? 14:42:04 Pierre: I think it is enough justification that one member thinks it would be useful and that 14:42:13 .. there is a small implementation burden. 14:42:22 RESOLUTION: Close this issue with no change. 14:42:28 github-bot, end topic 14:43:04 Nigel: I've closed the pull request too. 14:43:37 Topic: Consider adding support for tts:rubyAlign="spaceAround" imsc-vnext-reqs#30 14:43:42 github: https://github.com/w3c/imsc-vnext-reqs/issues/30 14:43:54 Pierre: I've implemented space-around in imsc.js and it works in the sense that it is no 14:44:08 .. worse than any other alignment feature, in that only Firefox supports it properly. 14:44:17 .. Supporting space-around is no harder than supporting center. 14:44:28 .. I've received feedback from Japanese contacts that space-around is a must so my 14:44:31 .. recommendation is to add it. 14:44:38 Nigel: Any counter-views? 14:45:02 Cyril: When you say "supported" I think at least in CSS it has the capability to do spacing 14:45:11 .. on the base text also so if the ruby annotation is bigger than the base text then the 14:45:19 .. spacing is added to the base text. Is that something you support? 14:45:29 Glenn: That behaviour is implementation dependent in TTML2 at the moment. We don't 14:45:36 .. say what an implementation should do at this point. 14:45:44 Pierre: I did not try that but I can try it right now. 14:46:23 Cyril: I don't know if this is the right behaviour but the CSS spec has diagrams showing that. 14:46:32 Pierre: No, it doesn't happen in Firefox I don't think. 14:46:45 .. Oh no, it does add spacing, that's correct. 14:47:07 .. We could put it as at risk. I'm told under no uncertain terms that when the base text 14:47:21 .. is long and the narrow ruby annotations then not having space-around is bizarre. 14:47:27 Cyril: I'm fine with that. 14:47:53 PROPOSAL: Support `tts:rubyAlign="spaceAround"` in IMSC v1.1 14:47:57 Nigel: Any objections? 14:48:04 RESOLUTION: Support `tts:rubyAlign="spaceAround"` in IMSC v1.1 14:48:14 github-bot, end topic 14:48:35 Topic: Consider adding requirement for support for rw and rh units imsc-vnext-reqs#33 14:48:42 github: https://github.com/w3c/imsc-vnext-reqs/issues/33 14:50:04 Nigel: I think the trade-off here is between implementation cost and the strategic 14:50:23 .. advantage of adopting rw and rh which should help remove some sources of errors. 14:50:33 Cyril: We have reviewed this and would like support for rw and rh. 14:50:39 Pierre: On everything or only on fontSize? 14:50:45 Cyril: Certainly on fontSize. 14:50:53 Pierre: What about extent, position, origin, lineHeight... 14:50:57 Cyril: 3 buckets: 14:51:36 .. 1. Exactly as % - extent, origin, position - just replace % with rw/rh. 14:52:33 .. 2. Those related to fontSize - lineHeight, linePadding, rubyReserve, textOutline, textShadow. 14:52:46 .. - that bucket should be the same as fontSize. 14:53:40 .. 3. padding - where % is related to the region size. 14:54:13 .. 4. the position property - I tried to look at the spec to understand how those units 14:54:25 .. would work and had an email exchange with Glenn. What confuses me is that the 14:54:36 .. tts:position does not mention rw and rh units and all the semantics and diagrams 14:54:50 .. use %. If you follow the position type then you find mention of the rw and rh units 14:54:59 .. but it's not clear how it works. 14:55:05 Nigel: Is it clear to you how a pixel value would work? 14:55:14 Cyril: No, anything other than % is unclear. 14:55:30 Glenn: This goes back to how XSL-FO documents units, and they only called out 14:55:41 .. % because it's the only one that is contextual. 14:56:11 Glenn: The problem is not the interpretation of %, but the intepretation of the position 14:56:25 .. property at all. I only understand it with the diagram that uses %, and it's the same 14:56:31 .. value. What does a fixed length value mean? 14:57:04 Glenn: If it is pixels then, say, a "top 10px" ... 14:57:19 Nigel: I know what you mean, is it positioning the top of the box by 10px or something 14:57:24 .. inside the box. 14:57:35 Pierre: For me it is offsetting the named edge. 14:57:49 Glenn: You have to take the size of the reference enclosing region and the height of 14:58:04 .. the object being positioned and 10px would be offset from the remaining difference. 14:58:09 Pierre: That's not what I have today. 14:58:22 Glenn: In other words a zero value always aligns the top of the thing being positioned 14:58:27 .. with the top of the enclosing region. 14:58:45 .. It doesn't allow you to move the positioning thing outside the enclosed region. 14:58:52 Nigel: The spec for this is CSS. 14:59:21 Glenn: The original language in TTML2 was lifted from CSS Backgrounds and Borders 14:59:28 .. with some text. 14:59:32 s/CSS/CSS3 14:59:42 Cyril: A diagram for absolute length based positioning would help. 14:59:46 Pierre: I think that's a good idea. 15:00:34 .. Just to confirm an offset in pixels from the bottom would be... 15:00:44 .. Imagine an offset in pixels from bottom. To compute the position of the top of the 15:00:58 .. object you subtract from the height of the containing box the height of the object and 15:01:18 .. the offset. 15:01:20 Cyril: Ok 15:01:31 Nigel: So if you say bottom 0px then you'd subtract nothing. 15:01:43 Pierre: that's correct, the top position would be the height of the root container minus 15:01:51 .. the height of the object so the bottoms would be aligned. 15:02:11 Nigel: Okay then that understanding helps with rw and rh because they are effectively 15:02:15 .. absolute units in this context. 15:02:18 Pierre: That's right. 15:02:38 Cyril: Is it the right time to open an editorial issue on TTML2 showing the postioning 15:02:47 .. with absolute units? 15:03:21 Glenn: Perhaps we just need an informative note. 15:03:26 Nigel: This is different. 15:03:35 Glenn: We already have an issue opened in TTML2 that we can add this to. 15:03:51 Cyril: "Add example fragments and images"? 15:03:54 Glenn: Yes 15:03:59 Cyril: I will do that, thank you. 15:04:09 .. That clarifies the spec, then the question is should we support it on position? 15:04:21 s/Yes/Yes, w3c/ttml2#359 15:04:38 Pierre: It is a pretty extensive code change to support it on everything. 15:04:44 .. Not to be taken lightly. 15:05:08 .. As last time, somehow folks have found a way to work around this in TTML1. So 15:05:13 .. it is a nice to have not a fatal bug. 15:05:22 Cyril: What about adding it and marking it as at risk? 15:07:11 Pierre: Adding it only on some will be even more work. 15:07:17 .. This is only for authors. 15:07:51 Nigel: No it's for users and the whole ecosystem because it makes it more likely that 15:08:11 .. content will have the right size text. By the way if I wanted to use this I would likely 15:08:20 .. consider requiring non-use of % for fontSize. 15:08:42 Cyril: In the Netflix UI you can adjust the font size. If you designed your document 15:08:59 .. without rw and rh then the layout will change if you use %. 15:09:17 Pierre: No you use c. You can do exactly the same but it is less intuitive. 15:09:29 .. You can set cellResolution to 100 100 and then c is exactly like rw and rh. 15:09:37 .. It is literally syntactic sugar. 15:09:46 Cyril: So it is not hard to implement then? 15:09:59 Pierre: It changes lots of code paths because now everywhere there is a length rw and 15:10:03 .. rh have to be implemented. 15:10:27 Cyril: How do you make the difference between a horizontal value using rw and c? 15:10:40 Pierre: For fontSize it is always relative to the height. 15:10:54 Cyril: We had a use case where we were using it in a horizontal direction based on the rh value. 15:11:13 Pierre: You would set a font height based on rh? That would be weird. 15:11:27 Glenn: Actually a lot of the test material in TTPE uses that for specifying fontSize. 15:11:42 .. Both rw for horizontal and vertical text, for fontSize and lineHeight. 15:11:52 Pierre: Don't get me wrong, I wish rw and rh were in TTML1, right. 15:12:01 .. I want to move forward so I'm happy to add it as at risk and move on. 15:12:13 .. It can be implemented it's just going to require a lot of testing. 15:12:31 PROPOSAL: Permit rw and rh units in all length expressions. 15:12:35 Nigel: All agreed? 15:12:42 Cyril: Yes 15:13:04 Pierre: Yes and our goal is to go for IMSC v1.1 CR CfC today to get by the publishing moratorium 15:13:11 .. so I'm happy to implement that today. 15:13:20 RESOLUTION: Permit rw and rh units in all length expressions. 15:13:23 github-bot, end topic 15:13:54 Pierre: Just to confirm this will only be in the text profile, right. Nobody has requested 15:14:06 .. it for image profile. I don't want to add it to image profile. 15:14:24 Nigel: What if you don't have pixels? 15:14:30 Pierre: You always have pixels in image profile. 15:14:56 Pierre: I will open an issue against imsc right now for this. 15:15:00 Nigel: Thank you 15:15:29 Topic: IMSC 15:16:00 Nigel: We have no issues or pull requests on the agenda but there are a number of 15:16:08 .. pull requests without reviews. 15:16:24 Pierre: Yes, I would suggest we open the CfC today. I don't expect the pull requests 15:16:33 .. to be contentious but I want to suggest one I opened this morning. 15:17:07 Topic: Refactor features tables imsc#395 15:17:14 github: https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/395 15:17:36 Nigel: There are various comments on these. 15:18:09 Pierre: There's only one not addressed. 15:18:28 Nigel: That's mine, and it's the only one left from me - I reviewed against all the other issues. 15:18:41 Pierre: I liked your suggestion, I'll go ahead and implement it on this pull request. 15:19:07 .. Do you agree that's editorial? 15:19:14 Nigel: It's in a normative section but I guess so. 15:19:28 Pierre: I'd rather deal with it as a separate issue, because that avoids breaking other pulls. 15:19:30 Nigel: OK 15:20:23 .. I've approved this on that basis. 15:22:57 Nigel: [summarises the editorial problem] 15:23:06 Pierre: I like the proposal, I think it's the right balance. 15:23:20 Glenn: As we've seen in TTML2 combinatorials quickly become a big problem. The 15:23:33 .. origin of features was never intended for prohibiting the use of content, simply for 15:23:44 .. defining conditional support for something and have content be selected if the 15:24:00 .. implementation supported the feature. The other thing was to list the supported 15:24:11 .. features for the process. We've moved away from that and now we're feeling the pain. 15:24:13 Nigel: Yes. 15:24:20 .. I still think it's the right thing to do. 15:24:46 SUMMARY: Pull request approved, further changes moved to another issue. 15:24:50 github-bot, end topic 15:25:08 Topic: Limit number of tts:textShadow to 4 imsc#408 15:25:12 github: https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/408 15:25:27 Pierre: Today it is unlimited, I think in IMSC it would be good to limit it. I just picked 15:25:43 .. 4 as a reasonable value, if someone has a reason for adding more then we can do that 15:25:51 .. but it should not be infinity. 15:26:23 Nigel: I don't have a view but 4 seems like a reasonable max. I don't have a particular 15:26:33 .. expectation to use this. 15:26:44 Cyril: I don't know of any use of textShadow by Netflix. 15:27:09 Nigel: Does 708 have a limit? 15:27:12 Pierre: Yes, 1. 15:27:34 Nigel: So fewer than 1 would be bad, too many is unnecessary. 15:27:39 .. Is there any CSS support limitation? 15:27:49 Pierre: I've never tried seeing what happens as you go towards infinity. 15:27:53 .. 4 certainly works. 15:28:38 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebesgue_measure 15:28:39 Glenn: What is the Lebesgue measure on that? 15:28:52 NIgel: That's to be answered another day. 15:29:23 PROPOSAL: Limit number of textShadow values to 4 15:29:27 Nigel: Any objections? 15:29:37 RESOLUTION: Limit number of textShadow values to 4 15:29:43 github-bot, end topic 15:30:36 Topic: IMSC v1.1 CR2 CfC 15:30:59 Nigel: There are 9 open pull requests right now. 15:31:08 1st summer publication blackout July 9-13 15:31:08 2nd summer publication blackout July 30 - August 3 15:31:08 IMSC 1.1 Publication timeline 15:31:08 ----------------------------- 15:31:08 June 28th Pierre sends IMSC 1.1 CR2 stable editor's draft for review 15:31:09 June 29th Nigel sends IMSC 1.1 CR2 CfC (14 days period) 15:31:11 July 13th end of CfC 15:31:13 July 16th Pierre sends IMSC 1.1 CR2 final document 15:31:15 July 16th Thierry sends IMSC 1.1 CR2 Transition request to director (needs about a week for approval) 15:31:17 July 17th Thierry upload document at final destination on TR and checks IMSC 1.1 CR2 against validators 15:31:19 July 24th Thierry sends IMSC 1.1 CR2 Publication request to webmaster (needs 1 or 2 days ahaead of publication) 15:31:21 July 24th Thierry sends IMSC 1.1 CR2 annoucement draft to com team 15:31:23 July 26th IMSC 1.1 CR2 Publication 15:31:45 Nigel: Thank you, so I can send the CfC tomorrow based on the pull requests being merged today and a version being prepared. 15:32:34 Nigel: The request is to merge the open pull requests early and then run their 15:32:56 .. effective review period simultaneously with the CfC for requesting transition to CR2. 15:33:14 Nigel: I will go through the pull requests to allow them to be merged so this can happen. 15:33:31 PROPOSAL: Merge currently opened IMSC pull requests early 15:33:36 Nigel: Any objections? 15:33:44 RESOLUTION: Merge currently opened IMSC pull requests early 15:33:55 Nigel: Thank you I'll go ahead and do that. 15:34:03 .. And I will issue the CfC tomorrow. 15:34:39 Nigel: Looking at the open issues the only other changes we're expecting to include 15:34:55 .. in this resolution are the ones shortly to come that improve the dependent feature 15:35:17 .. boilerplate text and add (at risk) support for rw and rh., #409 and #410. 15:36:06 Nigel: Just checking #82, we have a resolution there, so that's okay. 15:37:01 Nigel: The aim here is, barring CfC review comments, to have as stable a document as 15:37:04 .. possible to review. 15:37:13 Pierre: I'll merge those pull requests early then. 15:37:48 Topic: CSS actions review 15:37:51 action-512? 15:37:51 action-512 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Raise an issue with css wg requesting support for lineshear -- due 2018-07-05 -- OPEN 15:37:51 https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/512 15:38:02 Pierre: No activity to report. 15:38:19 Pierre: There's an outstanding bug against WebKit where it does not process Arabic 15:38:27 .. text properly across spans, and that's pretty bad. 15:38:40 Glenn: It goes back to KHTML, the original source of the code for WebKit. The problem 15:38:53 .. was they subdivide their text by spans into objects and don't consider context across 15:39:05 .. those boundaries for computing the glyphs. I looked into changing that once upon a 15:39:17 .. time and decided it would require a huge rewrite of the entire WebKit layout system. 15:39:29 .. Backporting that is well nigh impossible. It's never going to get fixed unless they 15:39:35 .. throw out their code and start anew. 15:39:46 Pierre: That means you're really limited in styling of Arabic text in WebKit. 15:39:55 Glenn: You can't put a span in the middle of a word, that's all. 15:40:30 Topic: TPAC 15:40:36 Pierre: Any news on the scheduling? 15:40:54 Nigel: There's no movement as far as I know, but I have it on my list to circulate the 15:41:05 .. proposed topics for discussion in a joint meeting on the Monday with the Media and 15:41:11 .. Entertainment IG. 15:42:55 .. Please let me know if there are any topics to raise. 15:43:51 .. For example they are interested in requirements for media timed events such as 15:44:18 .. synchronisation and data packet tunnelling from MPEG into browsers. 15:44:50 Topic: Meeting Close 15:45:31 Glenn: I'm going to be out of town from 7th-23rd July,, not just those Thursdays mentioned above. 15:45:37 Nigel: Thanks everyone! [adjourns meeting] 15:45:53 s/,,/, 15:45:57 rrsagent, make minutes 15:45:57 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/06/28-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:52:57 tm has joined #tt 16:09:39 scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 16:09:41 rrsagent, make minutes 16:09:41 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/06/28-tt-minutes.html nigel 17:29:37 tm has joined #tt 17:49:04 Zakim has left #tt