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08:28:28 <PWinstanley> rrsagent, make logs public
08:28:38 <SimonCox> rrsagent, make logs public
08:29:46 <SimonCox> Meeting: DXWG DCAT subgroup teleconference 28 June 201
08:30:00 <SimonCox> s/201/2018/
08:30:15 <SimonCox> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2018.06.28
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08:30:47 <SimonCox> chair: SimonCox
08:31:03 <SimonCox> regrets: Dave Browning
08:31:56 <SimonCox> present+
08:34:31 <arminhaller> present+
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08:35:53 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> present+
08:36:43 <arminhaller> scribe: arminhaller
08:36:44 <SimonCox> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2018.06.28
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08:36:50 <PWinstanley> present+
08:36:50 <arminhaller> scribenick: arminhaller
08:37:05 <SimonCox> Topic: Confirm agenda
08:37:51 <arminhaller> +1 for agenda
08:37:53 <riccardoAlbertoni> present+
08:37:59 <SimonCox> topic: Approve minutes from last meetin
08:38:02 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1 to agenda
08:38:09 <arminhaller> 0 not there
08:38:11 <SimonCox>  https://www.w3.org/2018/06/21-dxwgdcat-minutes
08:38:18 <SimonCox> 0 not there
08:38:19 <PWinstanley> +1
08:38:19 <riccardoAlbertoni> 0 ( i was not there)
08:38:25 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> 0 (absent)
08:38:45 <SimonCox> Resolved: minutes approved
08:38:59 <SimonCox> Topic: Mailing list questions
08:39:07 <SimonCox> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dxwg-comments/2018Apr/0001.html
08:39:45 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1 to have an issue
08:39:46 <SimonCox> q?
08:40:10 <SimonCox> Action: SimonCox to acknowledge comment
08:40:10 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
08:40:22 <SimonCox> Action: Simon to create issue from mailing list comment
08:40:22 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
08:41:12 <SimonCox> Topic: Catalogues in which dataset is a bag of files
08:41:22 <SimonCox> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/256
08:41:44 <SimonCox> q?
08:42:35 <arminhaller> SimonCox: Do we need the plenary to vote on this?
08:43:08 <arminhaller> PWinstanley: Push it through here and get the nod from the main group (UCR).
08:43:37 <arminhaller> ... should get top of the agenda next week
08:44:36 <arminhaller> ... for the main meeting
08:45:46 <arminhaller> ... this is a special case, we won't need new use cases in many instances
08:46:25 <SimonCox> q?
08:46:55 <SimonCox> Topic: How to express distributions provided as compressed files
08:47:07 <SimonCox>  https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/259
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08:48:12 <SimonCox> q?
08:48:27 <AndreaPerego> present+ AndreaPerego
08:49:06 <arminhaller> q+
08:49:06 <SimonCox> q?
08:49:12 <SimonCox> ack arminhaller
08:49:16 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> q+
08:49:19 <SimonCox> arm
08:49:24 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, make logs public
08:49:31 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
08:49:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/06/28-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
08:49:38 <SimonCox> arminhaller: from API pov it is just the media-type that matters
08:49:44 <SimonCox> q?
08:49:44 <PWinstanley> q+
08:49:49 <SimonCox> ack Jaroslav_Pullmann
08:49:52 <SimonCox> q?
08:49:56 <SimonCox> q+
08:50:52 <SimonCox> ack PWinstanley
08:51:00 <AndreaPerego> q+ to ask if Makx's comment on GH could be relevant here: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/54#issuecomment-359062055
08:51:01 <arminhaller> Jaroslav_Pullmann: There was a suggestion to indicate the original media type, i.e. in the distribution metadata we should allow the media type description
08:51:33 <arminhaller> PWinstanley: How deep to we go, mime types, encodings? This can become a rabbit hole
08:51:57 <arminhaller> Jaroslav_Pullmann: we have packaging like tar, compressions like zip
08:52:07 <SimonCox> ack SimonCox
08:52:11 <arminhaller> PWinstanley: We should only be concerned with the compression type, not the content
08:52:14 <arminhaller> +1 to PWinstanley
08:52:58 <arminhaller> SimonCox: we should give the user more information then the Web architecture provides us
08:53:09 <SimonCox> q?
08:53:13 <SimonCox> ack AndreaPerego
08:53:13 <Zakim> AndreaPerego, you wanted to ask if Makx's comment on GH could be relevant here: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/54#issuecomment-359062055
08:54:19 <arminhaller> AndreaPerego: for packaged distributions, at least compressed one's you can use the + to include the included mime type
08:54:37 <SimonCox> q?
08:54:40 <arminhaller> s/+/+zip
08:55:20 <arminhaller> SimonCox: In the past we had encountered similar problems with GML, with one level of compression
08:55:28 <arminhaller> q+
08:55:32 <AndreaPerego> q+
08:55:48 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1 to consider also the type of resource considered ( ex. Gml in the simon's example)
08:56:13 <arminhaller> SimonCox: the risk is that you have a potential infinite level of nesting
08:56:49 <SimonCox> q?
08:56:55 <SimonCox> ack arminhaller
08:57:00 <riccardoAlbertoni> +q
08:57:23 <AndreaPerego> q-
08:57:40 <SimonCox> ack riccardoAlbertoni
08:57:43 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> q+
08:57:45 <AndreaPerego> q+
08:57:52 <PWinstanley> +1 to arminhaller  and the avoidance of rabbit holes
08:58:23 <arminhaller> arminhaller: we should support +zip suffix, but not arbitrary levels of file hierarchies that may be contained in a packaged file or compressed file
08:58:35 <SimonCox> ack Jaroslav_Pullmann
08:58:50 <SimonCox> q+
08:58:59 <arminhaller> Jaroslav_Pullmann: there might be recursive structures, but that is normally not the case
08:59:14 <SimonCox> q+ to note connection with previous agenda topic
08:59:28 <arminhaller> ... it is important to let the user know what is in the compressed format
08:59:56 <SimonCox> ack AndreaPerego
09:00:36 <arminhaller> AndreaPerego: Want to report how we deal with this issue. We ignore the fact that a package distribution is compressed.
09:00:54 <arminhaller> ... people like to know what is inside, shape, CSV or whatever
09:01:20 <arminhaller> ... we want to say what is the primary format
09:02:19 <arminhaller> ... there was also a comment from David Reed. I don't care about the compression. The software can uncompress on the fly. There is not need to tell the machine the compression format.
09:02:41 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> q+
09:02:51 <SimonCox> ack SimonCox
09:02:51 <Zakim> SimonCox, you wanted to note connection with previous agenda topic
09:02:56 <riccardoAlbertoni>  I agree on the fact that the compression is not the interesting thing the interesting thing is what is compressed
09:03:18 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
09:03:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/06/28-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
09:03:22 <arminhaller> SimonCox: Are we understanding what the requirement is as riccardoAlbertoni said
09:04:09 <arminhaller> ... the fact that there may be multiple files within overlaps with the previous issue that we did not discuss
09:06:04 <arminhaller> ... we should record an agreement that it is important to know what is within the archive
09:06:27 <AndreaPerego> q+
09:06:28 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> +1  for focusing on purpose of Distribution metadata (indicating bare content type)
09:06:35 <PWinstanley> q+
09:07:13 <SimonCox> Proposal: We agree that the content of an archive distribution (i.e. what is inside a zip or tar file) is important for the users of a Catalogue and should be part of the description
09:07:24 <SimonCox> s/Proposal/Proposed/
09:07:28 <SimonCox> +1
09:07:29 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> +1
09:07:30 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1
09:07:47 <AndreaPerego> +1 (we also to that in the JRC Data Catalogue)
09:08:06 <arminhaller> +1 (just using the +zip suffix if it is a compressed file)
09:08:10 <AndreaPerego> s/+1 (we also to that in the JRC Data Catalogue)/+1 (we also do that in the JRC Data Catalogue)/
09:08:20 <arminhaller> s/we also to/we also do
09:09:25 <SimonCox> ... in the dcat:mediaType property
09:09:36 <PWinstanley> I've a question about the degree of mandation of this, because there is an element of agency involved here - sometimes people keeping the collection (e.g. in CKAN etc) may be given a compressed file but might not have all the information / understanding of the contents.  So the information is desirable, but the resolution uses 'should'
09:09:49 <SimonCox> resolved: We agree that the content of an archive distribution (i.e. what is inside a zip or tar file) is important for the users of a Catalogue and should be part of the description
09:10:52 <SimonCox> q?
09:11:07 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
09:11:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/06/28-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
09:11:29 <SimonCox> ack Jaroslav_Pullmann
09:11:36 <PWinstanley> q-
09:11:45 <arminhaller> Jaroslav_Pullmann: We are not considering nesting of content
09:11:58 <arminhaller> ... flat content that is optimised through compression
09:12:20 <arminhaller> ... metadata is there for a purpose for the agent to know what is in
09:12:54 <arminhaller> ... automated agents should know about the surface format
09:13:05 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1 to Jaroslav_Pullmann (otherwise, if we are not talking about  "flat" file we need an extra use case/requirement to consider)
09:13:11 <arminhaller> ... i am advocating that we have both in
09:13:15 <PWinstanley> s/mandation/requirement/
09:13:38 <arminhaller> SimonCox: what about an archive with mixed file formats in it
09:13:43 <arminhaller> s/in it/in it?
09:13:57 <arminhaller> Jaroslav_Pullmann: Then we talk about different data
09:14:37 <AndreaPerego> I think it's too strong to say it's different data.
09:15:04 <arminhaller> arminhaller: What about a compressed file that contains ttl, n3 and rdf/xml files that are all equivalent, semantically.I have done that before.
09:15:20 <arminhaller> .I have/. I have
09:15:37 <AndreaPerego> +1 to arminhaller. Same with CSV, TSV, and spreadsheet formats.
09:16:13 <SimonCox> q?
09:16:38 <SimonCox> ack AndreaPerego
09:17:40 <arminhaller> AndreaPerego: In the geospatial community it is common to have a shape file with additional files like manifests included in there.
09:17:43 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1 AndreaPerego
09:18:18 <arminhaller> ... for standard nested formats we don't need to do anything
09:19:02 <arminhaller> ... if nesting is done in an arbitrary way, a readme file within the structure should be used
09:19:21 <SimonCox> This topic is also related to https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/256 and https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/81
09:19:53 <arminhaller> ... the fact that they use a zip bundle is deliberate, because they intentionally want to help users
09:20:22 <PWinstanley> q+
09:20:26 <riccardoAlbertoni> perhaps we should add an extra use case/requirement about the andrea's bundle ..
09:20:27 <arminhaller> ... here I find it difficult to use metadata to describe the content, unless we use sitemap
09:20:35 <SimonCox> where it is well-known bundle structure, then is this handled with dct:conformsTo ?
09:20:40 <SimonCox> ack PWinstanley
09:20:43 <SimonCox> q?
09:21:09 <SimonCox> +1 to riccardoAlbertoni !
09:21:27 <arminhaller> PWinstanley: In highly structured content, they give you a context.xml file with a common pattern
09:21:45 <SimonCox> q?
09:21:58 <arminhaller> SimonCox: I wonder if this is already covered with the conformsTo property
09:22:08 <riccardoAlbertoni> +q
09:22:13 <arminhaller> +1 on two seperate uses cases
09:22:15 <SimonCox> ack riccardoAlbertoni
09:22:21 <PWinstanley> s/common pattern/common pattern that only deals with the current level in relation to the parent level/
09:23:11 <arminhaller> riccardoAlbertoni: just to reiterate we need two use cases, one flat file use case and one for bundled distributions
09:23:18 <SimonCox> q?
09:23:52 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
09:23:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/06/28-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
09:23:56 <SimonCox> q?
09:24:39 <SimonCox> q?
09:25:01 <arminhaller> SimonCox: +1 to Jakubklimek's contributions on Github
09:25:07 <SimonCox> action: SimonCox to add some notes into https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/259 about our discussion
09:25:07 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
09:25:24 <AndreaPerego> q+
09:25:33 <SimonCox> ack AndreaPerego
09:25:54 <arminhaller> AndreaPerego: We are not getting any feedback on DCAT
09:26:04 <arminhaller> ... is there a conference where we can get feedback?
09:26:08 <SimonCox> Topic: no feedback on DCAT FPWD
09:26:27 <PWinstanley> q+
09:26:58 <arminhaller> SimonCox: I briefed DCAT at several conferences recently. One at a conference in Melbourne, that is organised by my organisation, CSIRO.
09:27:23 <arminhaller> ... another one with ANDS, the data service provider in Australia
09:27:52 <arminhaller> ... i can trigger responses from those users
09:27:56 <SimonCox> action: SimonCox to trigger feedback from ANDS
09:27:56 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
09:27:57 <SimonCox> q?
09:28:11 <SimonCox> ack PWinstanley
09:29:19 <riccardoAlbertoni> thanks enjoy the rest of week!
09:29:23 <arminhaller> bye
09:29:32 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
09:29:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/06/28-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
09:29:34 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> bye!
09:29:39 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
09:29:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/06/28-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
09:29:47 <PWinstanley> bye
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09:36:09 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
09:36:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/06/28-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
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