19:04:27 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sdw
19:04:27 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2018/06/05-sdw-irc
19:04:31 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sdw
19:04:35 <tidoust> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:04:37 <brinkwoman> Hi - just sorting out logistics for connecting to webex etc
19:05:33 <tidoust> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web IG F2F - Day 1/2
19:05:43 <tidoust> Chair: Linda, Jeremy
19:06:50 <Rob_Smith> Hello. I'm connected to WebEx, but it's totally silent
19:07:13 <brinkwoman> we are not on webex yet
19:08:13 <ClemensPortele> ClemensPortele has joined #sdw
19:08:23 <brinkwoman> francois webex says it's an invalid number or room id
19:09:02 <Rob_Smith> I've got his updated details, and I'm connected
19:09:52 <brinkwoman> ok hang on, we're getting an extra laptop for this
19:09:57 <Rob_Smith> I think the SDW webpage link goes to the Amersfoort WebEx meeting
19:10:50 <jtandy> jtandy has joined #sdw
19:11:31 <jtandy> present+ jtandy
19:12:01 <ClemensPortele> present+ ClemensPortele
19:12:31 <ClemensPortele> scribenick ClemensPortele
19:12:41 <ClemensPortele> scribe ClemensPortele
19:12:45 <eparsons> eparsons has joined #sdw
19:14:13 <ClemensPortele> scribe: ClemensPortele
19:14:21 <ClemensPortele> scribenick: ClemensPortele
19:14:38 <brinkwoman> present+ Linda
19:14:40 <PeterR> PeterR has joined #sdw
19:14:42 <tidoust> Present+ Francois
19:14:54 <eparsons> present+ eparsons
19:15:16 <ClemensPortele> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/sdwig/meetings/f2f-2.html
19:15:36 <MichaelGordon> MichaelGordon has joined #sdw
19:15:46 <tom_hunter> tom_hunter has joined #sdw
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19:16:05 <tom_hunter> present+
19:16:09 <ChrisLit> present+ ChrisLit
19:16:11 <MichaelGordon> present+ MichaelGordon
19:16:14 <tom_hunter> present+ tom_hunter
19:16:15 <Rob_Smith> present+
19:16:27 <Percivall> present+
19:16:45 <ClemensPortele> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/sdwig/meetings/f2f-2.html
19:16:55 <Rob_Smith> present+ Rob_Smith
19:16:59 <Percivall> present+ George Percivall
19:19:27 <ClemensPortele> eparsons: member of original SDWWG, here to catch up with the work of the SDWIG
19:20:04 <ClemensPortele> ClemensPortele: member of the SDWWG, too, mostly active / interested in the Best Practice work
19:20:25 <ClemensPortele> Percivall: OGC, supporting the work of this group
19:20:58 <ClemensPortele> ChrisLit: new to OGC and the group, interested in publishing datasets
19:21:16 <ClemensPortele> s/ChrisLit/???/
19:21:38 <ClemensPortele> tom_hunter: same as ???
19:22:17 <ClemensPortele> ChrisLit: member of the original SDWWG, e.g. on the Time Ontology
19:22:31 <ClemensPortele> PeterR: working on MApML
19:22:38 <tidoust> i/eparsons: member/Topic: Introductions/
19:23:14 <ClemensPortele> Joe: new to the group
19:23:45 <ClemensPortele> MichaelGordon: also new to the group, leading the work on the Best Practices now
19:24:27 <ClemensPortele> jtandy: co-chair of this group, editor of the published Best Practices
19:24:38 <josephabhayaratna> josephabhayaratna has joined #sdw
19:24:53 <ClemensPortele> brinkwoman: same as jtandy
19:25:02 <MichaelGordon> https://www.w3.org/2017/sdwig/
19:25:11 <ClemensPortele> tidoust: W3C staff supporting the group
19:25:12 <josephabhayaratna> present+ josephabhayaratna
19:25:33 <MichaelGordon> Link to interest group homepage and deliverables - https://www.w3.org/2017/sdwig/
19:25:37 <ClemensPortele> Rob_Smith: working on WebVMT
19:27:12 <ClemensPortele> TOPIC: Recap scope, activities and deliverables of SDW IG
19:27:52 <ClemensPortele> jtandy: As an introduction, let's list the deliverables of the previous SDWWG
19:28:47 <ClemensPortele> ChrisLit: Time Ontology - now a recommendation
19:29:27 <ClemensPortele> eparsons: Best Practice - not another standard, but guidance for publishing spatial data on the web, complements the W3C Data on the Web Best Practice
19:31:11 <ClemensPortele> jtandy: CoverageJSON, QB4ST - still drafts, work for an expert audience, has not yet progressed to a mature state
19:32:10 <ClemensPortele> ChrisLit: One result was that a lot of data will never be published as triples, but for metadata make use of linked data
19:33:15 <ClemensPortele> brinkwoman: a new work item is a Best Practice on statistical data, in early status, collecting use cases
19:33:32 <eparsons> q+
19:33:41 <ClemensPortele> jtandy: for publishing census data, capturing approaches from around the world
19:34:04 <brinkwoman> ack eparsons
19:34:17 <ClemensPortele> jtandy: SSN - Sematic Sensor Network Ontology, a recommendation, too
19:35:02 <ClemensPortele> eparsons: When we go through the deliverables it is important to be clear why we discuss it here and not just in OGC or just in W3C
19:35:56 <ClemensPortele> eparsons: The key thing is that we want to make spatial data more web friendly
19:37:18 <Percivall> OGC Tech Trends https://github.com/opengeospatial/OGC-Technology-Trends/
19:37:22 <ClemensPortele> jtandy: In our charter we say we will work on a Geospatial roadmap. We will discuss this later, including the trends identified by OGC (but from a Web perspective)
19:37:55 <ClemensPortele> jtandy: In addition there is the Strategy Funnel: https://github.com/w3c/strategy/projects/2?card_filter_query=label%3Ageospatial
19:38:50 <jtandy> Q?
19:39:44 <PR> PR has joined #sdw
19:40:00 <ClemensPortele> jtandy: Operating as a joint group of W3C and OGC. We are using the W3C infrastructure and processes
19:40:46 <ClemensPortele> jtandy: (walks through the Strategy Funnel)
19:41:25 <ClemensPortele> TOPIC: Working practices for the IG
19:42:05 <josephabhayaratna> JWOC: https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/80
19:42:13 <ClemensPortele> jtandy: different work item, quite fragemented, but under the umbrella of the IG
19:42:48 <ClemensPortele> jtandy: ... difficult to make teleconferences work, also because of time zone issues
19:43:17 <ClemensPortele> chair: jtandy
19:44:00 <ClemensPortele> jtandy: The idea now is to have "focus days" where we work on specific topics, with a quicker turnaround
19:44:08 <josephabhayaratna> +1
19:44:11 <ClemensPortele> jtandy: How does sound in principle?
19:44:15 <Rob_Smith> Sounds good
19:44:19 <jtandy> Q?
19:44:29 <ClemensPortele> MichaelGordon: Sounds good in principle, but we need to test it out
19:45:16 <ClemensPortele> PeterR: In Testbed 14 we have weekly calls, but this activity does not show up in the Strategy Funnel
19:45:55 <Rob_Smith> q+
19:46:06 <ClemensPortele> Percivall: Could this IG act like a DWG to connect the work of the testbed to this group?
19:48:01 <ClemensPortele> MichaelGordon: at this stage it may be difficult because of the need for observer agreements
19:48:07 <brinkwoman> ack rob
19:48:33 <ClemensPortele> Percivall: There is a range of approaches in Testbed 14, including development in public
19:49:09 <ClemensPortele> Rob_Smith: I am missing the group calls to have wider discussion and feedback. Maybe the focus days could work.
19:50:17 <Rob_Smith> I see it
19:50:25 <ClemensPortele> jtandy: We have the general tools to keep track (issues, etc). We are now trying to use "project" capability of GitHub.
19:51:30 <ClemensPortele> jtandy: This can be used to document the status of an activity up-to-date
19:52:18 <ClemensPortele> jtandy: This should also drive the work for the focus days for a project
19:52:39 <ClemensPortele> jtandy: Leaders of an activity should update their information regularly
19:52:53 <ClemensPortele> jtandy: How does that sounds?
19:53:07 <ClemensPortele> (nodding in the room)
19:53:12 <ClemensPortele> s/sounds/sound/
19:53:17 <Rob_Smith> Sounds good. I'll update the summary
19:53:59 <ClemensPortele> jtandy: We will update the information during the meeting
19:57:32 <ClemensPortele> PROPOSAL: Use GitHub projects to manage and communicate the status of the work items of the group
19:57:38 <jtandy> +1
19:57:41 <MichaelGordon> +1
19:57:41 <Rob_Smith> +1
19:57:41 <ClemensPortele> +1
19:57:41 <eparsons> +1
19:57:42 <josephabhayaratna> +1
19:57:43 <brinkwoman> +1
19:57:45 <tidoust> +1
19:57:46 <Percivall> +1
19:57:54 <tom_hunter> +1
19:58:01 <PR> +1
19:58:09 <ClemensPortele> RESOLUTION: Use GitHub projects to manage and communicate the status of the work items of the group
20:00:04 <ClemensPortele> jtandy: We also use Gitter for chats, not much in use so far
20:00:17 <MichaelGordon> q+
20:00:20 <ClemensPortele> ClemensPortele: Should be helpful during the focus days
20:00:33 <jtandy> Ack MichaelGordon
20:01:04 <ClemensPortele> MichaelGordon: Will the focus days be synchronous or asynchronous?
20:01:24 <ChrisLit> ChrisLit has joined #sdw
20:01:27 <ClemensPortele> jtandy: I would think the latter
20:01:37 <ChrisLit> present+ ChrisLit
20:01:43 <ChrisLit> +1
20:02:13 <ClemensPortele> jtandy: Let's try to use Gitter for the communication in the focus days
20:02:30 <ClemensPortele> brinkwoman: When will be the next focus days?
20:02:39 <ClemensPortele> jtandy: The first days of each month
20:02:42 <ChrisLit> +1
20:02:45 <Rob_Smith> +1
20:02:48 <jtandy> Q?
20:02:57 <jtandy> Q?
20:04:41 <eparsons> scribe: eparsons
20:04:50 <eparsons> scribenick: eparsons
20:05:16 <eparsons> jtandy: Intro to technology trends - hands over to Percivall
20:06:15 <eparsons> jtandy: Things that are relevant to w3c of particular interest
20:06:22 <ClemensPortele> https://github.com/opengeospatial/OGC-Technology-Trends/blob/master/README.md
20:06:48 <eparsons> Percivall: Describes diagram above...
20:07:24 <eparsons> Percivall: Leaf nodes are trends - updated frequently
20:08:44 <eparsons> Percivall: Blue blobs take you to docs hosted on github for each topic
20:09:48 <eparsons> Percivall: Trends now also github projects - 3 categories - Identification, Characterisation, Take Action
20:10:02 <jtandy> Q?
20:10:10 <eparsons> jtandy: What is trend goes away...
20:10:18 <eparsons> Percivall: They go away :-)
20:10:39 <ClemensPortele> s/What is/What if/
20:11:31 <eparsons> jtandy: Useful to have scrapyard...
20:11:46 <Rob_Smith> +1
20:12:17 <eparsons> Percivall: Scrapyard could explain why trend was binned
20:13:55 <eparsons> jtandy: Numbering issues identified in list - needs to be iterated linking funnel to tech trends not always leaf level
20:14:21 <ChrisLit> q+
20:14:30 <jtandy> Q?
20:14:32 <eparsons> Percivall: Map projections clearly a topic that needs best practice
20:15:25 <eparsons> jtandy: Asks MichaelGordon is current SDW BP good enough ? for CRS advice
20:15:51 <jtandy> ACK ChrisLit
20:15:53 <eparsons> ClemensPortele: Edge cases avoided in BP
20:16:29 <ClemensPortele> q+
20:16:29 <eparsons> ChrisLit: Things in funnel mainstream, tech trends forward looking ?
20:17:15 <eparsons> Percivall: Tech trends not work items - funnel is ?
20:18:34 <ChrisLit> s/mainstream/may be mainstream/
20:18:46 <eparsons> PR: Maps for html align existing web technology - not a technology trend as such...
20:19:12 <jtandy> Q+ to ask who can update the Tech Trends repository
20:20:25 <eparsons> MichaelGordon: Bringing spatial & web together - not always one to one so OK for trends and funnel not to completely overlap
20:20:35 <tidoust> i/jtandy: Intro to technology trends/Topic: OGC Technology Trends review
20:21:21 <Percivall> Percivall has joined #sdw
20:21:44 <eparsons> jtandy: trends don't have "go to person" funnel is about work so have people associated which each topic
20:22:17 <eparsons> Percivall: Trends not taskable
20:22:50 <jtandy> Ack ClemensPortele
20:22:55 <eparsons> Percivall: will come make with suggestions of overlaps
20:23:38 <eparsons> ClemensPortele: Trends managed by Gobe - can we contribute issues ?
20:25:08 <MichaelGordon> q+
20:25:34 <eparsons> ClemensPortele: Can only add comments to issues... how can we contribute other info
20:26:38 <eparsons> Percivall: Developing process on asciidocs need to update this
20:27:49 <eparsons> jtandy: Mail OGC staff to add comments until pull requests or different mechanism established
20:28:08 <eparsons> MichaelGordon: Just create issues...
20:28:26 <eparsons> ClemensPortele: Then projects don't works
20:28:43 <jtandy> Q-
20:29:27 <eparsons> Percivall: Will work on new process to update sdw branch
20:30:33 <eparsons> MichaelGordon: Trends cutting edge / emerging topics
20:30:37 <jtandy> Ack MichaelGordon
20:31:29 <eparsons> MichaelGordon: Stats & Big Data ML also need to be linked
20:32:18 <eparsons> jtandy: asks MichaelGordon to email Gobe with these
20:32:42 <Rob_Smith> q+
20:32:55 <jtandy> Ack Rob_Smith
20:33:26 <eparsons> Rob_Smith: 2 others UAVs and AR linked to WebVMT
20:33:53 <jtandy> Q?
20:34:09 <eparsons> jtandy: MichaelGordon will add these to gobe email
20:34:40 <eparsons> jtandy: How do we provide this input before TPAC in October
20:35:08 <eparsons> josephabhayaratna: Will contribute linked data stuff
20:35:46 <eparsons> jtandy: ad-hoc telcon to address this to be arranged
20:36:45 <eparsons> jtandy: After Percivall reworks current work - 1 month from now
20:37:20 <eparsons> jtandy: Percivall will arrange telcon
20:37:52 <eparsons> action Percivall to arrange telcon and send out details
20:37:54 <trackbot> Created ACTION-391 - Arrange telcon and send out details [on George Percivall - due 2018-06-12].
20:38:14 <eparsons> jtandy: who would be interest
20:38:16 <brinkwoman> +1
20:38:17 <jtandy> +1
20:38:18 <MichaelGordon> +1
20:38:19 <Percivall> +1
20:38:21 <tidoust> +1
20:38:22 <josephabhayaratna> +1
20:38:22 <ChrisLit> +1
20:38:25 <Rob_Smith> +1
20:38:26 <PR> +1
20:38:44 <jtandy> -1
20:38:48 <jtandy> +1
20:39:01 <eparsons> jtandy: Please read up before telcon ;-)
20:39:26 <jtandy> Aim for 5/6 July for the Tech Trends ad-hoc teleconf
20:40:01 <eparsons> jtandy: Short break end of Tech Trends/Funnel topic
20:40:27 <eparsons> jtandy: Resume in 20 mins
20:42:01 <eparsons> rrsagent, draft minutes
20:42:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/06/05-sdw-minutes.html eparsons
20:46:12 <josephabhayaratna> @jtandy: pull request created for addition of references to the SDW README.md file
21:01:13 <eparsons> eparsons has joined #sdw
21:03:11 <jtandy> jtandy has joined #sdw
21:03:21 <jtandy> present+ jtandy
21:03:48 <eparsons> jtandy: back in the room
21:03:58 <eparsons> Topic : Geospatial Web Roadmap
21:04:10 <tidoust> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:04:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/06/05-sdw-minutes.html tidoust
21:04:52 <eparsons> brinkwoman: Roadmap overview of work we are doing but also broader relevant stuff happening elsewhere
21:05:35 <eparsons> brinkwoman: w3c use roadmaps often
21:06:24 <eparsons> brinkwoman: example - www.w3.org/2018/01/web-roadmaps/mobile
21:07:21 <eparsons> brinkwoman: Drill down from icons to specific topics document - table of building blocks, specs etc
21:08:13 <eparsons> brinkwoman: For this roadmap browser support is important, could be relevant for us with map html
21:08:48 <eparsons> brinkwoman: Text for us and grouping with maturity info would be most useful
21:09:21 <eparsons> brinkwoman: In summary short document providing overview
21:09:36 <ClemensPortele> ClemensPortele has joined #sdw
21:10:10 <eparsons> brinkwoman: We need to decide on features of our roadmap, how to group features (1 or many ?)
21:11:21 <eparsons> brinkwoman: I have done a first attempt at this on github
21:12:15 <eparsons> brinkwoman: Scope geospatial, Standards, any level of maturity , beyond OGC/W3C
21:13:07 <jtandy> Q?
21:13:14 <eparsons> brinkwoman: Easy based on SDO's eg. OGC SDWWG/IG
21:14:28 <tidoust> [Practically speaking, SOSA and SSN can easily be mentioned in the roadmap as two features of the same spec]
21:14:52 <eparsons> jtandy: Discussion of SSN/SOSA level of components with Josh - constellation of items
21:16:22 <JoshLieberman> JoshLieberman has joined #sdw
21:16:45 <eparsons> jtandy: brinkwoman would like to separate SSN / SOSA for presentation
21:17:16 <eparsons> brinkwoman: would be useful to include other alignments with others
21:19:11 <eparsons> JoshLieberman: OM lite replaced by SOSA
21:19:23 <eparsons> JoshLieberman: SSN extensions ?
21:19:42 <eparsons> JoshLieberman: connected to sensorthings
21:21:34 <eparsons> jtandy: List of things - set of observations, O&M data streams aligned by collections etc
21:22:57 <eparsons> jtandy: List of work to do highlighted in project on Github Progress card
21:23:21 <eparsons> jtandy: MichaelGordon has added Data Cube, tiling etc as features
21:24:22 <eparsons> JoshLieberman: Cloud Optimised Geotiffs (COG's) could be useful
21:25:04 <jtandy> Http
21:25:29 <jtandy> See https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues/1030
21:25:44 <eparsons> MichaelGordon: contributions in issue above
21:27:02 <eparsons> brinkwoman: Should we just list all the WxS standards ?
21:27:21 <jtandy> Q?
21:28:04 <jtandy> Q+
21:28:13 <eparsons> eparsons: Perhaps not useful if not mainstream
21:29:01 <eparsons> ChrisLit: Usecases might be useful to identify features
21:29:45 <eparsons> ChrisLit: Usecases from Stats ChrisLit to add below
21:30:03 <jtandy> Q?
21:30:13 <eparsons> JoshLieberman: move georss to OGC
21:30:49 <jtandy> Ack jtandy
21:30:50 <eparsons> jtandy: scope should be web native/friendly
21:30:50 <PR> Q
21:31:17 <PR> Q+
21:31:19 <eparsons> JoshLieberman: http as transport vs http as interface
21:31:28 <JoshLieberman> q+
21:31:54 <eparsons> jtandy: http as an interface in scope, transport not in scope
21:32:31 <jtandy> Ack pr
21:32:34 <eparsons> jtandy: Roadmap cant point to things we will not cover
21:33:27 <eparsons> PR: But... getmap is an api , wfs will be popular because the result is JSON
21:34:07 <eparsons> PR: Should not exclude based on location of ? in url
21:35:13 <eparsons> jtandy: WPS is a better example, impossible for a web developer to use, WMS is possible, WFS 2.0 you need to understand data model..
21:36:07 <eparsons> JoshLieberman: Hard to be too prescriptive  in simplicity
21:36:58 <eparsons> PR: WMS is out there part of geoweb, maps html to allow new clients for this...
21:37:01 <jtandy> Q?\
21:37:14 <JoshLieberman> ack
21:37:38 <jtandy> Ack JoshLieberman
21:38:39 <eparsons> JoshLieberman: Geohash's way of identifying local data
21:39:26 <ChrisLit> ChrisLit has joined #sdw
21:39:43 <ChrisLit> present+ ChrisLit
21:40:18 <eparsons> jtandy: Back to should we list all standards ??
21:40:47 <eparsons> JoshLieberman: Makes sense to give you a view to where you are coming from
21:41:45 <eparsons> brinkwoman: Did not add all - too many filtered based on relevance to web
21:41:54 <jtandy> Q?
21:41:57 <eparsons> brinkwoman: Not encoding
21:42:29 <eparsons> PR: speak up for the ones you want
21:43:51 <eparsons> jtandy: Can you explain the criteria for filtering - should we try to run the filter now ?
21:44:54 <eparsons> jtandy: For example is O&M useful to a web dev - should they not look at SOSA ?
21:44:56 <ChrisLit_> ChrisLit_ has joined #sdw
21:46:09 <eparsons> jtandy: Criteria here was that O7M has been replaced by a web friendly feature
21:46:27 <eparsons> s/O7M/O&M
21:47:29 <ChrisLit_> sdw/stats-bp/draft-use-case-list.md points to UC for partitioning/tiling ontology. Cannot find a URL.
21:47:52 <eparsons> jtandy: IndoorGML is emerging as a web friendly feature so it would be relevant
21:48:43 <eparsons> jtandy: Not GML but will have JSON ???
21:49:34 <eparsons> JoshLieberman: Is there an excepted way to go from GML to JSON ??
21:52:19 <eparsons> jtandy: Audiences might want different products complex needs - GML for complex needs / JSON for simpler ..
21:53:55 <tidoust> [I note a valuable outcome of the roadmap exercise is also to list features not covered by ongoing work or not web-friendly enough, as in: http://w3c.github.io/web-roadmaps/media/processing.html#features-not-covered-by-ongoing-work]
21:54:08 <jtandy> jtandy has joined #sdw
21:54:31 <tidoust> q+
21:55:14 <eparsons> brinkwoman: Candidate for roadmap if there are plans to simplify to make web friendly
21:55:57 <eparsons> jtandy: Let OAB know what's missing from roadmap - useful intelligence for future work of OGC TC
21:57:24 <eparsons> jtandy: will be subjective - can we get on future OAB agenda
21:57:37 <eparsons> jtandy: When can we do this ?
21:58:20 <eparsons> JoshLieberman: Early July
21:58:35 <jtandy> Q?
21:58:42 <jtandy> Ack to doust
21:58:49 <jtandy> Ack tidoust
21:59:04 <Rob_Smith> q+
21:59:09 <pipauwel> pipauwel has joined #sdw
21:59:36 <eparsons> tidoust: Added IRC comment, outcome of roadmap is to id features not friendly enough should be a section of the roadmap
22:00:28 <eparsons> jtandy: Categories - Not Ready, Becoming Ready, Ready...
22:00:55 <jtandy> Ack Rob_Smith
22:01:20 <eparsons> Rob_Smith: Comment on classification - tagging might be useful
22:01:53 <eparsons> Rob_Smith: Different reasons could be captured using the tags as part of the process
22:02:10 <jtandy> Q?
22:03:24 <eparsons> brinkwoman: Will update roadmap other input welcome - add issues to the project on github
22:03:49 <jtandy> Q?
22:04:17 <eparsons> jtandy: If we have spare time we can whiteboard ideas later
22:04:51 <josephabhayaratna> josephabhayaratna has joined #sdw
22:05:25 <tidoust> Topic: Strategy funnel update - MapML
22:05:49 <tidoust> -> https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/115 MapML strategy issue
22:05:53 <tidoust> scribenick: tidoust
22:08:11 <tidoust> PR: I work at Natural Resources Canada. Created the Maps for HTML CG a few years ago.
22:08:44 <tidoust> ... I'm very proud of the work we've been doing on standards in Canada
22:08:53 <tidoust> ... Journey is not over.
22:09:28 <tidoust> ... We created SDI standards to help people use maps
22:09:50 <tidoust> ... When we share a URL to a WMS, the person that receives it must be a programmer.
22:10:16 <tidoust> ... These days, social networks on the Web are magic when it comes to link sharing: you share, it works.
22:11:07 <tidoust> ... There's a missing media type for maps
22:11:17 <tidoust> ... MapML is like HTML but for maps.
22:11:59 <tidoust> ... Doing something similar without MapML can take days
22:12:00 <josephabhayaratna> josephabhayaratna has joined #sdw
22:12:44 <tidoust> ... [Demo of MapML mashup, copying URLs of Web maps to combine them]
22:13:28 <tidoust> ... Map represent features of interest. The browser understands geospatial data. It knows where you are and what is around you thanks to MapML
22:13:44 <jtandy> Q?
22:14:11 <tidoust> eparsons: You're talking about an extension to HTML, right?
22:15:30 <tidoust> PR: Yes. SVG and MathML are part of HTML nowadays. In a map, you can refer to a layer through a URL or put that content directly in the map. On the one hand, it's a separate media type. On the other hand, if it's embedded in HTML, it's regular HTML.
22:16:19 <tidoust> ChrisLit_: How do you see this being adopted in HTML. Example of SVG which was modularized, and then split to CSS specs and others.
22:17:22 <tidoust> PR: With maps, you need a well-defined coordinate systems. Web Mercator is the default on the Web but some others are being used.
22:18:20 <tidoust> jtandy: What I've appreciated this time around is that, what seems to be a challenge for the time being, is to be able to drag a map source into another map, and for the browser to figure out that this is not another page, but a map.
22:19:18 <tidoust> PR: Yes.
22:19:46 <tidoust> ... You want to be able to reuse URLs in a different context. Geospatial information is most useful in context.
22:20:04 <tidoust> ?: Any other example of things you can drag and overlay?
22:20:21 <tidoust> PR: I'm not aware of any. The semantics of maps is layers.
22:20:35 <brinkwoman> q+
22:20:59 <tidoust> ?: The semantics of audio is tracks. What I'm saying is you may be looking at something more generic.
22:21:01 <Rob_Smith> q+
22:21:16 <tidoust> q+
22:21:26 <jtandy> Q?
22:21:41 <tidoust> s/?:/JoshLieberman:/g
22:22:49 <tidoust> [Looking at MapML code, extending the <map> element, which has layers]
22:23:10 <tidoust> PR: You could overlay geometric layers on an image with a <map>.
22:23:27 <tidoust> JoshLieberman: What I'm suggesting is that it may not be unique to maps
22:23:28 <jtandy> Q?
22:23:57 <tidoust> ChrisLit_: Photos, you could view as cross-section of 3D scenes.
22:24:12 <jtandy> Q?
22:24:19 <jtandy> Ack bro nkwoman
22:24:28 <jtandy> Ack brinkwoman
22:24:30 <tidoust> brinkwoman: Is there currently a browser implementing this?
22:25:08 <tidoust> PR: No, there is a Custom element, controlled by JS. Supported across browsers as proof of concept.
22:25:42 <tidoust> jtandy: The MapML that you're trying to standardize is just the content of the <map> element. You're not trying to standardize the implementation.
22:26:07 <tidoust> PR: One of the benefits of this architecture is that browsers can implement it the way they see fit.
22:26:12 <jtandy> Ack Rob_Smith
22:26:47 <tidoust> Rob_Smith: That's a great demo, Peter. I understand it better. You need a shared data format and a Web reader. Have you broken that down in that way?
22:27:34 <tidoust> PR: Essentially, yes.
22:27:40 <jtandy> Q?
22:28:31 <tidoust> ... The DOM specification for MapML would be part of HTML ideally. And that DOM could then be used as an "API" to control maps in libraries.
22:29:28 <tidoust> ... [Example of changing zoom and coordinates, features need to change at the same time]
22:29:34 <jtandy> Ack tidoust
22:30:13 <eparsons> tidoust: How do we gather interest from browser providers ?
22:31:04 <Clemens> Clemens has joined #sdw
22:31:47 <tidoust> [Example of MapKit JS: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/mapkitjs]
22:32:31 <jtandy> Q+ to try to summarise
22:32:41 <tidoust> PR: I don't like the idea of being able to impose the map provider depending on the system.
22:33:15 <tidoust> eparsons: There is space for this approach. It does not address the more advanced cases such as routing.
22:33:16 <jtandy> Q?
22:33:46 <tidoust> PR: I plan to go to the Lyon meeting to catch some browser developers.
22:34:07 <tidoust> jtandy: A breakout session on Wednesday would be a good thing.
22:34:20 <JoshLieberman> q+
22:34:34 <tidoust> ... Have you tried to engage with WICG?
22:34:52 <tidoust> PR: Yes, no real feedback there.
22:36:01 <Rob_Smith> q+
22:36:06 <tidoust> jtandy: The point here is to be able to take URLs and being able to stack layers one of top of the others, using a coordinate system under the hood to align layers.
22:37:05 <tidoust> ... We'll try to support you at TPAC.
22:37:53 <tidoust> ... Co-sponsorship to get other people involved would be ideal.
22:38:32 <Rob_Smith> q-
22:39:00 <jtandy> Q?
22:39:00 <JoshLieberman> q-
22:39:07 <jtandy> Q-
22:39:33 <MichaelGordon> MichaelGordon has joined #sdw
22:39:39 <tidoust> Topic: Strategy funnel update - Linked Building Data
22:40:16 <tidoust> -> https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/94 Linked Building Data strategy issue
22:41:06 <tidoust> jtandy: What we're trying to do here is to find stuff at OGC that might complement or overlap what you've been doing
22:41:46 <tidoust> -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pntugv6dyyst0qe/20180605_presW3Contologies_PPauwels.pptx?dl=0 Presentation on Linked Building Data
22:42:44 <tidoust> pipauwel: Background is Building Information Modelling (BIM). Every information about each system. There's an industry standard "ifc". Not very web-friendly.
22:43:03 <tidoust> ... There's an OWL version, but it's very very very big.
22:43:21 <tidoust> ... And there are a few things that make it hard to use.
22:43:31 <tidoust> ... Big impact on 3D geometries as well.
22:43:57 <tidoust> ... Key findings is that we want to make it more modular, simple, and web-friendly. We created a CG to that effect.
22:44:23 <tidoust> ... There's a companion WG in buildingSMART (LDWG). Both groups are very active.
22:45:12 <tidoust> ... Split into elements that are part of a building (walls, floors, etc.) that we try to represent. Different ontologies to capture different properties.
22:45:22 <tidoust> ... We're trying not to focus on geometry because that's complex.
22:46:02 <tidoust> ... We have a GitHub repository, a page that describes what we're doing.
22:46:14 <tidoust> ... Upcoming F2F
22:46:50 <tidoust> ... Going through the current status. Goal is Web-based, decentralised, modular, simple.
22:47:52 <tidoust> ... Building topology starts simple. From there, we go to a product ontology. Property ontologies that capture properties of the product data (heating transition values that come from vendors for instance)
22:47:56 <SimonCox> SimonCox has joined #sdw
22:48:08 <tidoust> ... We try to link to Geospatial domain as well.
22:49:04 <tidoust> ... [showing the key ontologies and relationships]
22:49:34 <tidoust> ... Ongoing discussion to separate data properties and object properties
22:50:21 <tidoust> ... We're trying to stabilize the different parts to be able to transition these works to a Working Group at W3C.
22:50:43 <tidoust> ... We also make alignments, kept separately (including SSN/SOSA)
22:51:39 <tidoust> ... [going through spec examples and Protégé example of the product ontology]
22:52:15 <jtandy> Q?
22:52:53 <tidoust> ... Brief indication of implementations that we have. Trying to have industry-driven or user-driven examples.
22:53:15 <tidoust> ... We have a tool to convert from IFC to LBD.
22:53:49 <tidoust> ... Second example with Forge (viewer of Autodesk) to look at specific elements in a building
22:54:09 <tidoust> ... We have a SPARQL visualizer app to visualize any data on building data
22:54:50 <tidoust> ... One railway station example with underground cables. Combines with spatial information
22:55:09 <tidoust> ... Also infrastructure as linked data to convince people to use linked data.
22:55:42 <tidoust> ... [showing the tools]
22:55:55 <tidoust> ... Live sensor data in the Open Smart Home Data example
22:56:06 <tidoust> jtandy: Thank you very much for the comprehensive presentation.
22:56:26 <tidoust> ... It would be useful to add a link to this presentation to the strategy funnel issue.
22:57:15 <eparsons> signing off - everyone
22:57:34 <jtandy> Q?
22:57:52 <Rob_Smith> WebEx audio is very faint
22:58:12 <jtandy> IDBE Integrated Digital Built Environment
22:58:55 <tidoust> JoshLieberman: Subcommittee is looking at connecting OGC and buildingSMART. Includes IFC. CityGML. Probably soon PipelineGML.
22:59:56 <tidoust> ... Haven't heard about ifcOWL in that list, but could be interesting
23:00:00 <tidoust> pipauwel: Yes, I'm aware of these groups.
23:00:48 <tidoust> ... Converting to OWL is doable. But the result does not look like OWL. Same thing with XML. Result does not look like XML. That's the reason why we're looking at it differently.
23:01:12 <tidoust> [Josh mentions upcoming meeting of the subcommittee]
23:01:44 <tidoust> JoshLieberman: It may be that the only hope to align standards is to have something at a more general level.
23:02:41 <tidoust> jtandy: New work on serialized geometry that can be expressed as OWL. Is there something we could contribute to?
23:02:58 <tidoust> brinkwoman: Have you looked at the current version of GeoSPARQL?
23:03:29 <tidoust> pipauwel: Not sure what the latest version of GeoSPARQL is, but yes. There's also a BIMSPARQL.
23:03:41 <tidoust> ... I like the idea.
23:03:46 <tidoust> ... It's very detailed.
23:04:26 <SimonCox> @pipauwel GeoSPARQL does not convert geometry to RDF
23:04:30 <tidoust> ... We have the full semantics in IFC. Simple use cases would rather use a mesh. People in our group typically use a mesh
23:05:16 <tidoust> JoshLieberman: what about CESIUM?
23:05:25 <tidoust> pipauwel: Not familiar with it.
23:05:43 <tidoust> JoshLieberman: Would be useful to produce 3D geometries in the browser.
23:06:24 <tidoust> pipauwel: Many of the editors have their own geometry mechanisms.
23:06:40 <jtandy> Cesium ... see https://cesiumjs.org
23:07:13 <tidoust> ... The main proposal I'm putting forward in that group is to put geometry elsewhere, and focus on representing buildings semantically
23:07:48 <tidoust> [Discussion on CESIUM to render 3D models for the browser]
23:08:44 <tidoust> jtandy: Cesium 3D tiles may be the thing to look at then.
23:09:29 <tidoust> pipauwel: The idea would be to make a separate CG that tackles this. We're also coming to TPAC, so maybe something we can discuss then.
23:10:18 <tidoust> jtandy: CityGML also describes objects. We're also looking at a JSON serialization with CityJSON.
23:10:40 <tidoust> ... There seems to be an overlap there.
23:11:16 <tidoust> JoshLieberman: It's not an overlap except for physical space. Cesium is for rendering. CityGML is for analysis.
23:13:18 <tidoust> jtandy: So, we have an action to meet at TPAC and put you in touch with OGC standardization work around Cesium 3D tiles.
23:14:12 <Rob_Smith> q+
23:14:35 <jtandy> Ack Rob_Smith
23:15:43 <Rob_Smith> Goodnight
23:17:28 <josephabhayaratna> scribe: Joseph Abhayaratna
23:17:28 <SimonCox> scribe: josephabhayaratna
23:17:35 <SimonCox> scribenick: josephabhayaratna
23:17:40 <josephabhayaratna> scribenick: josephabhayaratna
23:18:20 <tidoust> Topic: Projects update - SSN/SOSA ontology amendments
23:18:48 <tidoust> s/Topic: Projects update - SSN/SOSA ontology amendments//
23:18:52 <tidoust> Topic: Projects update - SSN extensions
23:19:48 <josephabhayaratna> SimonCox: Some things that we didn't get to when finishing SSN because other work took longer than expected
23:20:52 <josephabhayaratna> SimonCox: Proposal wrapped up two of the issues that were described ahead of time Semantic Web Journal last year but were publicly available two years before that
23:21:46 <josephabhayaratna> SimonCox: Two topics are the separation of the feature of interest
23:22:25 <josephabhayaratna> SimonCox: In OGC we refer to the approximate feature of interest (sample) and the ultimate feature of interest
23:24:31 <josephabhayaratna> ... first example is when the ultimate feature of interest and the approximate feature of interest are the same
23:26:37 <josephabhayaratna> ... second example is where there is a chain of samples
23:28:13 <jtandy> (See the SSN Extensions Editor’s Draft: https://w3c.github.io/sdw/proposals/ssn-extension/)
23:28:28 <josephabhayaratna> ... proposal is to add hasUltimateFetaureOfInterest
23:28:31 <pipauwel> pipauwel has joined #sdw
23:29:45 <pipauwel> my (shortened) presentation is at https://www.dropbox.com/s/f6la8fq4guw7kte/20180605_presW3Contologies_PPauwels_short.pptx?dl=0 - I am signing out; it is 1.30AM here. Thank you again! See you at TPAC - and register for LDAC2018!!
23:30:27 <josephabhayaratna> ... Steve shows that we may have multiple samples which might be related to different ultimate features of interests where tracing back using isSampleOf may not work
23:31:22 <josephabhayaratna> ... in the specification, there are rules for how to derive the ultimate feature of interest using example SPARQL
23:31:54 <josephabhayaratna> ... this example shows tracing back through samples only if there is no ultimate feature of interest
23:34:13 <josephabhayaratna> jtandy: Please add more detail to the project in github and use the description to provide/update highlights
23:36:21 <josephabhayaratna> SimonCox: all of the classes and properties except those in red are in the SOSA namespace except hasProperty, which relates an observable property to a feature of interest. The proposed modification is to move or reflect the hasProperty in SOSA namesapce
23:37:08 <josephabhayaratna> ... the other topic is homogeneous collections of observations. Observations rarely occur as a singleton. The set of observations may be a time series
23:37:18 <josephabhayaratna> ... e.g., the set of pixels in an image
23:37:48 <josephabhayaratna> ... observations almost always occur in series
23:38:39 <josephabhayaratna> ... observed property is held the same, but other features of interest are varied
23:39:46 <josephabhayaratna> ... proposal is to add one class and one predicate to the ontology to allow collections.
23:39:46 <jtandy> Q+ to ask if ObservationCollection can / should be used for timeseries?
23:40:00 <jtandy> Q?
23:40:18 <JoshLieberman> Can be used for timeseries, or a timeseries result could be used alternately
23:40:20 <josephabhayaratna> ... ObsevationCollections can be nested
23:40:46 <JoshLieberman> ObservationCollection also useful for alignment with SensorThings API Datastream
23:41:33 <josephabhayaratna> ... proposed extension hasMember (property) and ObservationCollection (class)
23:42:15 <josephabhayaratna> ... examples show tracing back through hasMember. If an observation doesn't have a feature of interest, use the feature of interest from the ObservationCollection
23:42:39 <jtandy> Q?
23:42:46 <josephabhayaratna> ... SPARQL concepts are implemented in SPIN
23:42:54 <jtandy> Ack jtandy
23:42:54 <Zakim> jtandy, you wanted to ask if ObservationCollection can / should be used for timeseries?
23:43:37 <josephabhayaratna> jtandy: ObservationCollection makes it easier to store repeated information
23:43:52 <brinkwoman> q+
23:44:03 <josephabhayaratna> JoshLieberman: adding ObservationCollection makes it easier to harmonise the observation model with the service
23:44:33 <josephabhayaratna> SimonCox: it's constructed axiomatically using OWL but provides a much more compact encoding
23:44:58 <josephabhayaratna> jtandy: seems compact and well thought out. What help do you need to get to the next stage
23:45:16 <josephabhayaratna> SimonCox: needs help with SPARQL and a set of extra eyes for testing nested ObservationCollections
23:45:28 <jtandy> s/compact/coherent/
23:45:34 <josephabhayaratna> ... trying to understand the relationship with data cubes
23:45:57 <josephabhayaratna> ... not sure this can be expressed axiomatically
23:46:27 <josephabhayaratna> ... anyone on the call that is familiar with data cubes
23:46:37 <josephabhayaratna> JoshLieberman: Rob Atkinson
23:46:44 <josephabhayaratna> jtandy: Dave Reynolds?
23:47:12 <josephabhayaratna> ... he wrote the data cube spec, so if anyone knows its him
23:47:33 <josephabhayaratna> JoshLieberman: I'll take a look and see if I can contribute
23:47:47 <josephabhayaratna> ... Kathi Schleidt
23:48:10 <brinkwoman> q?
23:48:33 <josephabhayaratna> SimonCox: also examples. Kathi may be able to help there too
23:48:50 <josephabhayaratna> JoshLieberman: Can I add SensorThings as an exapmle
23:48:55 <josephabhayaratna> SimonCox: Sure
23:49:15 <josephabhayaratna> ... pushing directly into the head of gh-pages
23:49:41 <josephabhayaratna> jtandy: fine for you to, but if others are making changes they should create pull requests for Simon to approve
23:50:12 <josephabhayaratna> ... Josh to create an issue to add an example for SensorThings
23:51:25 <josephabhayaratna> SimonCox: Little unclear on what the prospects for the proposal is. Interested in what the process is moving forward to get this issued to OGC/W3C
23:51:43 <brinkwoman> q-
23:51:43 <josephabhayaratna> jtandy: The IG can vote to approve a NOTE
23:52:11 <josephabhayaratna> tidoust: depends on whether you'd like to take it to a new edition of SSN in which case we'd need to charter a new working group
23:52:27 <josephabhayaratna> SimonCox: Should I hijack the existing namespace or put it into a new namespace
23:53:50 <josephabhayaratna> ... can package it up as an ontology that simply imports SOSA, etc., but if this hasn't gone through a working group and gone through a vote for recommendation/standard, is it appropriate to make up new things in the existing namespace
23:54:02 <josephabhayaratna> jtandy: it makes sense to keep it separate
23:54:26 <josephabhayaratna> SimonCox: Understand that from a governance point of view, pain from the usability perspective
23:54:40 <josephabhayaratna> ... Should it be an NS namespace or a data one
23:55:20 <josephabhayaratna> tidoust: NS is fine. But if there's enough support a working group would be beneficial
23:55:33 <josephabhayaratna> ... that requires a lot more work
23:56:18 <josephabhayaratna> SimonCox: interested in other peoples opinions, but in the short term it makes sense to get the proposal out as a note to enable testing
23:56:42 <josephabhayaratna> jtandy: once people are testing it, we can demonstrate desire to move it forward. Publish it as a note with a reasonably light review
23:56:54 <josephabhayaratna> Topic: SSN Primer
23:57:41 <josephabhayaratna> jtandy: Armin said, we have received acceptance notification of our SSN paper in the SemWeb journal. This could be the basis of an SSN primer, but given the length of the paper I'm not entirely sure if it's needed?
23:57:42 <SimonCox> q+
23:58:40 <josephabhayaratna> SimonCox: The paper is not a primer. it's an overview and a more digestable overview for those that don't want to look at the REC.
23:58:53 <SimonCox> ack SimonCox
23:59:13 <josephabhayaratna> jtandy: In that case, the work on the primer hasn't yet start
23:59:30 <josephabhayaratna> Topic: SSN/SOSA Ontology Amendments
23:59:56 <josephabhayaratna> SimonCox: issue 1006