15:48:27 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pbg
15:48:27 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2018/06/05-pbg-irc
15:48:42 <dauwhe> rrsagent, set log public
15:49:09 <dauwhe> Meeting: Publishing Business Group Telco
15:49:36 <dauwhe> Date: 2018-06-05
15:54:34 <Avneesh> Avneesh has joined #pbg
15:58:52 <ivan> Chair: Liisa
15:59:27 <laudrain> laudrain has joined #pbg
15:59:53 <ivan> present+ Liisa, Luc, Ivan, Dauwhe
15:59:57 <ivan> Chair: Luc
16:00:08 <rkwright> rkwright has joined #pbg
16:00:14 <liisamk> liisamk has joined #pbg
16:00:24 <w3cteamirc> w3cteamirc has joined #pbg
16:00:27 <wolfgang> present+ wolfgang
16:00:34 <rkwright> present+
16:00:43 <liisamk> present+
16:00:45 <w3cteamirc> present+
16:00:46 <Avneesh> present+
16:00:48 <ivan> present+ rkwright, jyoshii, laurent
16:00:50 <tzviya> present+
16:01:11 <ivan> present+ billm
16:01:22 <ivan> guest+ E_Siegman
16:03:04 <ivan> present+ garth
16:03:21 <RickJ> RickJ has joined #pbg
16:03:28 <RickJ> present+ RickJ
16:03:44 <ivan> present+ Bernadette_Shade
16:03:53 <tzviya> welcome Bernadette!
16:04:21 <ivan> present+ RickJ
16:04:38 <ivan> present+ paulb
16:04:48 <ivan> present+ Avneesh
16:04:54 <ivan> present+ rachel
16:05:01 <w3cteamirc> Next time i will but today using thumbs on phone
16:05:10 <garth> garth has joined #pbg
16:05:15 <w3cteamirc> w3cteamirc has joined #pbg
16:05:31 <garth> present+ Garth
16:05:34 <Dan_Sanicola> Dan_Sanicola has joined #pbg
16:05:35 <pbelfanti> pbelfanti has joined #pbg
16:05:39 <Dan_Sanicola> present+
16:05:42 <pbelfanti> present+
16:05:47 <ivan> scribejs, set w3cteamirc Bill McCoy
16:05:49 <w3cteamirc> present+ BillM
16:06:02 <Brian> Brian has joined #pbg
16:06:06 <dauwhe> scribenick: Brian
16:06:09 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #pbg
16:06:15 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
16:06:21 <ivan> present+ Dan_Sanicola
16:06:23 <ivan> present+ Brian
16:06:33 <Brian> Luc asks for someone to give a summary of the recent WG meeting
16:06:38 <w3cteamirc> w3cteamirc has joined #pbg
16:07:08 <Brian> Ivan starts. Good meeting; thanks to Kobo for hosting
16:07:47 <Brian> Ivan: right path; have to define a manifest; decision that manifest in JSON LD
16:07:54 <laudrain> Brian: and continued lines from the same person starting with …
16:08:19 <Jens> Jens has joined #pbg
16:08:59 <Brian> ... schema.org plays a critical role; alignment with it makes sense
16:09:44 <Brian> ...have to do more work with schema.org; add sections on affordances
16:10:04 <laudrain> hello at E!!!
16:10:23 <Brian> ...long discussion on WP, PWP, EPUB4
16:10:40 <Brian> ...WP timeline not clear
16:10:54 <Brian> ...PWP will remain conceptual entity for a while
16:11:11 <garth> s/WP timeline/Web Packaging timeline/
16:11:21 <Brian> ...for EPUB4, may use the same packaging format as EPUB; not decided
16:12:01 <laudrain> q?
16:12:29 <Brian> Garth: also closed a number of issues at the end, good meeting, 20+ people, feels like progress
16:12:59 <Brian> Tzviya: Ivan and Garth summary is a good one
16:13:08 <ivan> present+ Bill_Kasdorf
16:13:21 <Brian> Some discussion of baby-cam
16:13:41 <ivan> present+ Jens_Klingenlhöfer
16:13:50 <ivan> present+ leslie
16:13:56 <Brian> Bill K: notes Tzviya is writing a blog post on the meeting
16:14:23 <pbelfanti> +1 Congrats, Tzviya!
16:14:46 <ivan> Topic: Workshop in Tokyo
16:14:52 <Brian> Luc: introduces topic, Tokyo workshop
16:15:17 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
16:15:17 <Zakim> Present: Liisa, Luc, Ivan, Dauwhe, wolfgang, rkwright, liisamk, w3cteamirc, Avneesh, jyoshii, laurent, tzviya, billm, garth, RickJ, Bernadette_Shade, paulb, rachel, Dan_Sanicola,
16:15:22 <Zakim> ... pbelfanti, Bill_Kasdorf, Brian, Jens_Klingenlhöfer, leslie
16:15:22 <Zakim> On IRC I see Jens, w3cteamirc, Bill_Kasdorf, Brian, pbelfanti, Dan_Sanicola, garth, RickJ, liisamk, rkwright, laudrain, Avneesh, RRSAgent, Zakim, wolfgang, jyoshii, Rachel, tzviya,
16:15:22 <Zakim> ... ivan, dauwhe, bigbluehat
16:15:34 <Brian> ...Building program, 18-19 September in Tokyo, complex layout focus.
16:15:39 <dauwhe> present+ dauwhe
16:16:00 <Brian> ...still under construction, consensus on content (included, excluded)
16:16:21 <Brian> ... cochair include Luc, Florian, Makoto
16:16:56 <Brian> ...take care to ensure diverse program committee. Need more women; solicited Laurent's input
16:17:12 <Brian> ... working on better representation
16:17:39 <laudrain> q?
16:17:40 <Brian> ...next steps are to push the draft, validation from w3c management, then release to the BG
16:18:05 <Brian> BillM: ask for expressions of interest, topics; program committee will review and choose
16:18:26 <Brian> ...program not set, hoping to release in the next month or so
16:18:38 <Brian> ...request for proposals in the next few days
16:18:47 <laudrain> q?
16:19:01 <ivan> Topic: Epubcheck
16:19:10 <Brian> Luc: EPUBCHECK update. Working on an RFP now
16:19:23 <Brian> ...finalize the RFP soon
16:19:40 <laudrain> q+
16:19:58 <tzviya> q+
16:20:28 <Brian> Laurent: need the conditions for selection; when payment will take place, procedure for getting funding to contractor
16:20:44 <laudrain> ack laudrain
16:20:51 <Brian> Luc: not precise answers to these questions raised by Laurent yet
16:21:00 <laudrain> ack tzviya
16:21:23 <liisamk> q+
16:21:27 <Brian> Tzviya: full RFP has not been disseminated, as some reviewers might also bid, creating a conflict of interest
16:21:46 <Brian> ...adds that fundraising is not part of the RFP; will proceed in parallel
16:22:14 <Brian> Laurent: timeline; will there be a delay between start of work, fundraising, payment schedules
16:22:28 <laudrain> ack liisamk
16:22:37 <garth> q?
16:22:49 <garth> q+
16:22:52 <Brian> Liisa: not sure what delays of payment means. RFP goes out mid-June, likely, with 30 days to respond.
16:23:08 <Brian> ...Request that respondents fill in anything missing in the RFP
16:23:20 <Brian> ...not trying to create a perfect RFP
16:23:37 <Brian> ...once the RFP goes out, funding will be pursued in parallel
16:23:56 <Brian> ...need to know the budget first, before we can finish fund riasing
16:24:05 <tzviya> q+
16:24:11 <Brian> Laurent: adds several items that he had raised earlier
16:24:15 <laudrain> ack garth
16:24:23 <wolfgang> s/riasing/raising/
16:24:49 <Brian> Garth: question is, if we pick a winner next month, will we have enough money on hand to start?
16:24:57 <Brian> ...hopefully, yes
16:25:00 <laudrain> ack tzviya
16:25:23 <Brian> Tzviya: valid concern, typically in SOW, not an RFP. Not a contract
16:25:45 <Brian> Luc: almost finished; people will be able to react.
16:26:02 <Brian> Tzviya: RFP almost ready to go, next few weeks (mid June)
16:26:08 <laudrain> q?
16:26:17 <Brian> Luc: any other concerns? [none]
16:26:35 <Brian> ...Next topic: thread about promoting EPUB3 adoption
16:26:58 <Brian> ...asks Liisa for guidance
16:27:01 <laurentlemeur> laurentlemeur has joined #pbg
16:27:05 <ivan> Topic: promotion for EPUB3 adoption
16:27:09 <laurentlemeur> present+
16:27:27 <Brian> Liisa: after the WG meeting, discussion of regional uptake of EPUB3
16:27:34 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:27:51 <Brian> ...does the regional variation help us think about how to get EPUB adopted?
16:28:01 <Brian> ...does it tell us where to focus
16:28:07 <laudrain> q+
16:28:51 <Brian> BillK: mention the work of the external coordination TF, lagging with other events, but this could be addressed there. Valid?
16:28:56 <liisamk> +1 to BillK
16:29:06 <laudrain> ack BillK
16:29:11 <Brian> Liisamk: great to take on
16:29:15 <laudrain> ack Bill_Kasdorf
16:29:24 <Brian> BillK: BISG is doing this kind of work in the U.S. market
16:29:44 <Brian> ...try to do something more systematic. Surveys, etc.
16:30:10 <laudrain> ack laudrain
16:30:10 <Brian> ...defers to co-chairs, not on the call.
16:30:21 <tzviya> q+
16:30:42 <Brian> Laudrain: with respect to survey: some sort of geographical adoption figures?
16:31:07 <Brian> ...notes some data available in France. Ben Dugas (Kobo) previously presented EPUB2/3 update
16:31:50 <Brian> Bill_Kasdorf: start with informal sounding out of other organizations, followed by surveys or other data-gathering efforts
16:32:01 <Brian> ...likely that other orgs may not have data
16:32:19 <Brian> ...conversations to get some data, not wait for survey results
16:32:23 <laudrain> ack tzviya
16:32:43 <Brian> Tzviya: in Brazil, little acceptance of EPUB 3
16:33:12 <Brian> Laudrain: should we measure production, acceptance, or delivery of a format
16:33:48 <Brian> ...basis for a white paper?
16:34:27 <Brian> Rick (Readium): explains interest in white paper
16:34:44 <Bill_Kasdorf> s/Rick/Ric
16:34:49 <Brian> Laudrain: willing to support/contribute to white paper. How to promote, where to promote
16:35:40 <Brian> Ric: no quick answer. Used to have some promotion options within IDPF. New options like EPUB3, 4- do we make choices on what to promote?
16:35:49 <Brian> Laudain: any ideas from the group?
16:35:59 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:35:59 <ivan> q+
16:36:00 <Brian> ...could it be on the W3C blog?
16:36:16 <laudrain> ack Bill_k
16:36:38 <Brian> Bill_Kasdorf: timing of promotion vs. development of EPUB 3.2 - what do we talk about?
16:36:58 <Brian> ...should we do that promotion while educating about EPUB 3.2
16:37:02 <laudrain> ack ivan
16:37:22 <Brian> Ivan: W3C blog not the idea channel. Readership is different
16:37:35 <wolfgang> s/idea/ideal/
16:37:36 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:37:38 <Brian> ... do not expect that those people are the right targets
16:37:41 <laudrain> q+
16:38:05 <Brian> ... may want to seek out partner blogs or other syndication channels
16:38:27 <Jens> q+
16:38:33 <Brian> ...does not feel the W3C blog alone is enough
16:38:42 <laudrain> ack Bill_Kasdorf
16:39:07 <Brian> Bill_Kasdorf could add this as an article in Publishers Weekly
16:39:14 <laudrain> ack laudrain
16:39:41 <laudrain> IMO this can be re-phrased differently:
16:39:41 <Brian> Laudrain: agree with Ivan that W3C blog is not the right place; seek out publishing industry channels
16:39:41 <laudrain> - from EPUB2 to EPUB3.2 (that's our target right now)
16:39:42 <laudrain> - from resources on the Web to Web Publications (2020)
16:39:43 <laudrain> - from EPUB3.2 to EPUB4 (>2020)
16:39:44 <laudrain> I don't think such a timeline is sending any mixed message.
16:40:37 <Brian> ... goal is EPUB 3.2 adoption; work toward that
16:41:20 <Brian> ...have resources on the web to support web publications, then move to EPUB 4
16:41:21 <laudrain> q?
16:41:29 <laudrain> ack Jens
16:41:36 <Brian> Garth: seems right to me
16:42:15 <Brian> jens: outside world has not heard a lot about EPUB lately; good idea to stage communicatioons
16:42:17 <dauwhe> q+
16:42:41 <Brian> Laudrain: timing around release of EPUB 3.2
16:43:07 <Brian> ...use other channels, outside of just w3c
16:43:15 <laudrain> ack dauwhe
16:43:20 <Brian> q+
16:43:48 <garth> q+
16:43:56 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to "it's about EPUB 3"
16:43:57 <dauwhe> scribenick: dauwhe
16:44:04 <Brian> dauhwe: EPUB 3.2 not solving 'urgent' problems. Keep message around EPUB not EPPUB3.2
16:44:12 <laudrain> ack Brian
16:44:20 <laudrain> q?
16:44:25 <laudrain> ack garth
16:44:32 <dauwhe> garth: adding happy pills to what dave said
16:44:33 <wolfgang> s/EPPUB3.2/EPUB 3.2/
16:44:36 <dauwhe> ... the focus should be on epub 3
16:44:49 <dauwhe> ... I do think 3.2 solves urgent problems
16:44:59 <dauwhe> ... and our current spec, 3.1, has zero adoption
16:45:16 <laudrain> q?
16:45:19 <dauwhe> ... it may not solve tech problems ,but it solves perception/standards problems
16:45:47 <dauwhe> laudrain: BillK, you proposed that  a coordination task force would look at geography
16:45:56 <dauwhe> ... the road map task force should work on these messages
16:46:09 <dauwhe> ... and hopefully epubcheck would be in better shape for 3.2
16:46:19 <Bill_Kasdorf> I agree with Luc re roadmap TF doing the messaging
16:46:19 <dauwhe> ... this roadmap should take this into account and propose communication
16:46:27 <dauwhe> ... that's why it's in the BG
16:46:34 <dauwhe> ... and we could work on preparing the messages
16:46:57 <dauwhe> ... we could also prepare a list of newsletters and communication channels we have in publishing around the world
16:47:01 <dauwhe> ... what do you think?
16:47:05 <dauwhe> +1
16:47:07 <tzviya> +1
16:47:11 <rkwright> +1
16:47:12 <wolfgang> +1
16:47:13 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: that's a good idea
16:47:15 <Jens> +1
16:47:27 <dauwhe> ... in our coordination task force, we've identified lots of organizations
16:47:35 <Julian_Calderazi> Julian_Calderazi has joined #pbg
16:47:46 <dauwhe> laudrain: I agree for the road map task force to take this action
16:48:04 <Julian_Calderazi> Sorry for being so late.
16:48:04 <dauwhe> ... during the time of 3.2 work and epubcheck, during the next month, until the end of the year, I'll work on white paper
16:48:14 <dauwhe> ... and a list of news channels
16:48:25 <dauwhe> ... with your help, Bill_Kasdorf
16:48:38 <dauwhe> ... Ric, could you contribute?
16:48:46 <dauwhe> rkwright: I'd be happy to
16:49:10 <dauwhe> laudrain: the easiest way to contribute is to participate within the road map task force
16:49:29 <dauwhe> ... in June, I will prepare a task force call
16:49:51 <dauwhe> ... any more comment on that subject of EPUB3 adoption
16:50:07 <dauwhe> ... Bill_Kasdorf, do you identify a specific deliverable about geographic adoption?
16:50:26 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: I need to consult my co-chairs and have a june meeting for that task force, before we can identifiy deliverables
16:51:05 <dauwhe> laudrain: it doesn't have to be in June, but we need to start to gather information
16:51:22 <dauwhe> ... liisamk, does this discussion help?
16:51:26 <dauwhe> liisamk: yes, thanks!
16:51:38 <dauwhe> laudrain: any other business?
16:52:00 <dauwhe> ... so let's end the meeting. Thanks!
16:52:21 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:52:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/06/05-pbg-minutes.html ivan
16:52:21 <ivan> zakim, bye
16:52:21 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
16:52:21 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
16:52:21 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Liisa, Luc, Ivan, Dauwhe, wolfgang, rkwright, liisamk, w3cteamirc, Avneesh, jyoshii, laurent, tzviya, billm, garth, RickJ,
16:52:21 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pbg
16:52:24 <Zakim> ... Bernadette_Shade, paulb, rachel, Dan_Sanicola, pbelfanti, Bill_Kasdorf, Brian, Jens_Klingenlhöfer, leslie, laurentlemeur