08:16:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dxwgdcat
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08:17:05 <SimonCox> meeting: DCAT team meeting 2018-05-24
08:17:11 <SimonCox> chair: SimonCox
08:17:22 <SimonCox> regrets: Makx
08:17:53 <SimonCox> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2018.05.24
08:18:01 <SimonCox> present+
08:27:42 <roba> roba has joined #dxwgdcat
08:30:12 <roba> * dang - trying to find password..
08:32:31 <DaveBrowning> DaveBrowning has joined #dxwgdcat
08:33:37 <riccardoAlbertoni> riccardoAlbertoni has joined #dxwgdcat
08:34:19 <alejandra> alejandra has joined #dxwgdcat
08:34:49 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> Stijn_Goedertier_AIV has joined #dxwgdcat
08:36:18 <riccardoAlbertoni> hi all!
08:39:05 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> present+
08:39:17 <riccardoAlbertoni> present+
08:39:50 <alejandra> scribenick: alejandra
08:39:55 <alejandra> present+
08:39:58 <SimonCox> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2018.05.24
08:40:12 <roba> present+
08:40:27 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> present+
08:40:28 <SimonCox> topic: confirm agenda
08:40:36 <alejandra> chair: SimonCox
08:41:27 <alejandra> SimonCox: proposal at the end of the discussion to close the issue provisionally
08:41:39 <alejandra> ... moving on with some issues, considering that all solutions are provisional
08:42:16 <alejandra> ... I propose to continue the discussion on DCAT service catalogs
08:42:19 <alejandra> +q
08:42:32 <alejandra> ... I chose 3 issues almost in order of complexity
08:42:41 <SimonCox> ack alejandra
08:43:52 <SimonCox> alejandra: link to ttl in FPWD - needs to be to a dated version that corresponds to dcat.ttl at time of approval
08:44:33 <roba> +1
08:44:37 <DaveBrowning> +1
08:44:42 <SimonCox> +1
08:44:46 <DaveBrowning> present+
08:44:49 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1
08:44:56 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> +1
08:45:00 <SimonCox> topic: approve minutes of last meeting
08:45:09 <SimonCox>  https://www.w3.org/2018/05/17-dxwgdcat-minutes
08:45:14 <SimonCox> +1
08:45:15 <roba> +1
08:45:19 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> +1
08:45:28 <alejandra> about the ttl in FPWD, I'll continue the discussion via email
08:45:29 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1
08:45:31 <alejandra> +1
08:45:33 <DaveBrowning> +1
08:45:44 <SimonCox> resolved: approve minutes of last meeting
08:45:57 <roba> q+
08:45:58 <SimonCox> topic: Expanded scope of dcat:Catalog
08:46:20 <alejandra> related to issue: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/172
08:46:40 <SimonCox> example from Andrea and SimonCox  https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/237
08:47:13 <alejandra> the discussions on the model are in the wiki here: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/wiki/Cataloguing-data-services
08:47:21 <AndreaPerego> AndreaPerego has joined #dxwgdcat
08:47:23 <SimonCox> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/237#issuecomment-390098689
08:47:35 <AndreaPerego> present+ AndreaPerego
08:48:38 <alejandra> SimonCox: in the example, what is new is that the :MyCatalog uses dcat:service to link to a service
08:48:42 <alejandra> ... let's ignore the URI for now
08:49:07 <alejandra> ... dcterms:type has two values from the inspire code list
08:49:22 <alejandra> ... and there is a link to a dcat:endpoint
08:49:31 <alejandra> ... that would be a new addition in DCAT to satisfy this requirement
08:49:38 <alejandra> ... the rest is insignificant
08:49:55 <SimonCox> https://rawgit.com/w3c/dxwg/dcat-service-simon/dcat/index.html#vocabulary-overview
08:50:02 <SimonCox> q?
08:51:08 <alejandra> ... probably the biggest issue is having DiscoveryService as a subclass of Catalog and DataService
08:51:49 <SimonCox> ack roba
08:52:07 <alejandra> roba: 3 things, first the bigger picture
08:52:27 <alejandra> ... comment by Maxk description of a profile as a resource
08:52:45 <alejandra> ... question about extending dcat:Resource
08:53:00 <alejandra> ... dct:conformsTo part of a DataService
08:53:05 <alejandra> ... but also for Dataset
08:53:08 <SimonCox> q+ to comment that subclasses shown are not exhaustive
08:53:16 <alejandra> ... so it probably belongs to the superclass
08:53:22 <alejandra> ... Resource
08:53:38 <AndreaPerego> I would be in favour of considering a profile as one of the resources that can go into a catalogue - in particular, into an adms:AssetRepository.
08:53:39 <alejandra> ... every Resource potentially has a requirement for that
08:53:56 <SimonCox> q+ cardinalities to be read like RDF not UML
08:54:20 <alejandra> ... dcat:Distribution property may need a super property
08:54:31 <alejandra> +q to ask about Distribution and DataServiceDistribution
08:54:50 <alejandra> s/dcat:Distribution/dcat:distribution
08:54:55 <SimonCox> q+ to say that sub-property relationships not shown
08:55:35 <alejandra> roba: csw in the example is actually a skos:Collection
08:55:51 <SimonCox> ack SimonCox
08:55:51 <Zakim> SimonCox, you wanted to comment that subclasses shown are not exhaustive and to say that sub-property relationships not shown
08:55:56 <AndreaPerego> q+ to ask roba to explain the point about skos:Collection
08:55:59 <alejandra> ... I can probably fix that, would you like me to explicitly declare it as a dct:Standard
08:56:12 <alejandra> SimonCox: subclassing is not exhaustive
08:56:23 <alejandra> ... the diagram should be read as RDF not UML
08:56:44 <alejandra> ... some of the classes that we put before are things we haven't discussed fully yet (in gray)
08:57:04 <alejandra> ... set of subclasses of Resource is not exhaustive
08:57:22 <alejandra> ... superclass of Distribution is not yet defined
08:57:31 <alejandra> ... the subproperties relationships are not shown
08:57:50 <DaveBrowning> q+ to ask what limits there are on catalogue-able dcat:Resources...
08:57:53 <alejandra> ... I'm interested in knowing if anything is broken
08:58:28 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1 to SimonCox ( about reading UML under the open assumption though i would consider to change the notation or put a big warning about it)
08:58:45 <alejandra> roba: there is one error on dct:conformsTo
08:58:59 <SimonCox> q?
08:59:15 <SimonCox> q- cardinalities
08:59:17 <AndreaPerego> +1 to SimonCox about adding sub-classes/properties statement, and when really needed (we need to be careful not to add dependencies having negative impact on not foreseen use cases)
08:59:21 <SimonCox> ack alejandra
08:59:21 <Zakim> alejandra, you wanted to ask about Distribution and DataServiceDistribution
08:59:46 <AndreaPerego> s/properties statement, /properties statements later, /
08:59:55 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, make logs world
09:00:02 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
09:00:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/05/24-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
09:00:07 <SimonCox> q?
09:00:39 <AndreaPerego> Not clear to me what the superclass of "distribution" is meant for.
09:00:53 <SimonCox> ack AndreaPerego
09:00:53 <Zakim> AndreaPerego, you wanted to ask roba to explain the point about skos:Collection
09:00:54 <alejandra> alejandra: relationship between Distribution and DataDistributionService needs to be clarified in my view
09:01:06 <alejandra> alejandra: what is their difference and relationship with Dataset
09:01:34 <SimonCox> dcat:Distribution is intended to be 'representation' of a dataset, like a file
09:01:35 <alejandra> AndreaPerego: I'd like to discuss further what roba mentioned about skos:Collection
09:01:54 <alejandra> ... but it can be at a later stage
09:01:58 <roba> http://www.opengis.net/def/serviceType/ogc/csw is currently resolving to a thing that is a skos:Collection  - I am actually maintaining this - I can change it so that...
09:02:02 <alejandra> ... we should look at what other communities are doing
09:02:25 <alejandra> ... e.g OAI-PMH
09:02:36 <roba> http://www.opengis.net/def/serviceType/ogc/csw is a skos:Concept and a dct:Standard and http://www.opengis.net/def/serviceType/ogc/csw/ is the "collection of versions"
09:02:40 <alejandra> ... we don't have evidence to define precisely the scope of the catalogue
09:02:52 <roba> i.e. i can fix the data to make the example correct :-0
09:02:53 <alejandra> ... we should refer to existing standards for what the catalogue contains
09:02:54 <SimonCox> alejandra: wants to think about the relationships between DataDistribultionService, DIstribution, Dataset
09:03:11 <SimonCox> s/DataDistribultionService/DataDistributionService/
09:03:13 <SimonCox> q?
09:03:17 <alejandra> ... I don't understand the point of the superclass of Distribution
09:03:18 <SimonCox> ack DaveBrowning
09:03:18 <Zakim> DaveBrowning, you wanted to ask what limits there are on catalogue-able dcat:Resources...
09:03:36 <SimonCox> s/DIstribution/Distribution/
09:03:47 <roba> q+
09:03:57 <alejandra> DaveBrowning: what is the scope of those things that can be catalogued
09:04:05 <alejandra> ... what standards should be, do we have a boundary
09:04:17 <alejandra> ... we are calling it Data Catalogue
09:04:22 <AndreaPerego> q+ to comment on DaveBrowning 's point
09:04:39 <alejandra> ... so what do we include data-related
09:04:41 <roba> Noting the example of https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/release/dcat-ap-v11
09:05:07 <alejandra> ... this could come up on e-publication
09:05:29 <SimonCox> ack roba
09:06:03 <alejandra> roba: the link above showed a profile as a dataset
09:06:06 <DaveBrowning> +1 to squinting....
09:06:45 <alejandra> SimonCox: if one would consider adding profile in the diagram, would it be a subclass of Dataset or Resource?
09:07:10 <alejandra> roba: it is a Resource
09:07:46 <alejandra> roba: a guidelines document is not the same as a Distribution but it is a Resource
09:07:56 <alejandra> SimonCox: this is a core model, what is not stated can be added
09:08:06 <SimonCox> q?
09:08:13 <alejandra> roba: there seems to be an equivalent to Distribution as a pattern
09:08:14 <SimonCox> ack AndreaPerego
09:08:14 <Zakim> AndreaPerego, you wanted to comment on DaveBrowning 's point
09:08:44 <alejandra> AndreaPerego: about what to include into the catalogue, it is related to the work of ADMS
09:08:52 <SimonCox> yes to roba - dct:conformsTo could be moved up to dcat:Resource
09:09:03 <alejandra> ... it was designed due to the need of implementing catalogues of ReusableAssets
09:09:09 <SimonCox> (so that is on the record ;-)
09:09:12 <alejandra> ... ontologies, data models, data schemas, etc
09:09:18 <alejandra> ... it was specifically designed for that
09:09:37 <alejandra> ... ADMS includes what was considered relevant for documenting models
09:09:40 <riccardoAlbertoni> +q
09:09:45 <alejandra> ... profiles is in scope as an asset for ADMS
09:09:51 <SimonCox> q+ to commend the ADMS designers for getting there first!
09:10:16 <alejandra> ... when ADMS was contributed in W3C, the gov linked data group, ended up considering ADMS as a specialiaation of DCAT
09:10:25 <alejandra> s/specialiaation/specialisation
09:10:30 <roba> so we can make profile a subclass of an ADMS class and transitively have it as a subclass?
09:10:57 <alejandra> AndreaPerego: I see loads of correspondences between profiles and their definition in SHACL and its relationship of ADMS
09:11:15 <SimonCox> +1 to considering Profiles (and standards) in scope ... following the patterns already tested in ADMS!
09:11:19 <alejandra> ... we could consider the inclusion of a profile within a DCAT catalogue
09:11:27 <SimonCox> q?
09:11:33 <alejandra> ... or a more specific catalogue, which is more in scope of ADMS
09:11:51 <alejandra> ... the implementation resource description is a type of distribution
09:12:02 <alejandra> ... I don't see the need of having a superclass of Distribution
09:12:07 <SimonCox> q+ to reopen the point from alejandra
09:12:09 <SimonCox> q?
09:12:13 <roba> +1 as a type of distribution - happy if no subclassing needed in dcat core
09:12:15 <SimonCox> ack riccardoAlbertoni
09:12:47 <alejandra> riccardoAlbertoni: I agree about including the profiles in the catalogues
09:13:06 <alejandra> ... I wonder if we should refer to the profile description ontology that Nick and roba have proposed
09:13:11 <roba> q+
09:13:18 <SimonCox> ack SimonCox
09:13:18 <Zakim> SimonCox, you wanted to commend the ADMS designers for getting there first! and to reopen the point from alejandra
09:13:44 <alejandra> SimonCox: thanks AndreaPerego for reminder about ADMS
09:14:45 <AndreaPerego> q+
09:14:50 <alejandra> ... we should check ADMS details
09:15:43 <alejandra> SimonCox: going back to the point that alejandra made on the relationship between DataDistributionService, Distribution and Dataset
09:16:04 <alejandra> ... pattern of DataDistributionService often tightly bound to datasets that they serve
09:16:15 <alejandra> ... that's why the link to the abstract Datatset
09:16:23 <alejandra> s/Datatset/Dataset
09:16:32 <alejandra> ... Distributions are usuall at the end of the chain
09:16:45 <alejandra> +q
09:17:00 <alejandra> ... inverse properties maybe? although discussions were against them
09:17:00 <SimonCox> ack roba
09:17:22 <alejandra> roba: I'm happy about considering ADMS and not clutter the discussion now and move forward
09:17:44 <alejandra> ... not worry much about the profiles specifics at this point
09:17:48 <SimonCox> ack AndreaPerego
09:18:04 <alejandra> AndreaPerego: relation between Distribution and Service
09:18:33 <alejandra> ... in the diagrams Simon presented and considering how DCAT is used, there is an indirect relationship between the service and the distribution
09:19:25 <alejandra> ... we had discussed and it was brought up again about having a property pointing to the service description
09:19:47 <alejandra> ... in DCAT-AP people point from the Distribution to this service description document
09:20:00 <SimonCox> q?
09:20:01 <alejandra> ... there is not necessarily a direct relationship
09:20:18 <alejandra> SimonCox: we are trying to acknowledge the requirements from what people have done
09:20:28 <alejandra> ... but also recognised that there have been some hacks
09:20:47 <SimonCox> ack alejandra
09:21:48 <SimonCox> alejandra: DataDistributionService should have a direct relationship to Distributions as well as Datasets
09:22:39 <alejandra> SimonCox: we used to conflate Distributions and DistributionServices
09:22:45 <AndreaPerego> q+
09:22:59 <alejandra> ... a single DistributionService could deliver multiple Distributions
09:23:14 <SimonCox> ack AndreaPerego
09:23:45 <alejandra> AndreaPerego: relation between service and distribution is tricky
09:23:58 <alejandra> ... service can offer multiple datasets and the same distribution in different formats
09:24:07 <alejandra> isn't that a different distribution?
09:24:17 <alejandra> AndreaPerego: it is not easy to map a Distribution to a Service
09:25:07 <roba> +1
09:25:09 <alejandra> SimonCox: should I put a proposal and accept it provisionally to move forward?
09:25:12 <AndreaPerego> +1
09:25:16 <DaveBrowning>  +1
09:25:21 <SimonCox> Proposed: Adopt solution shown in https://raw.githubusercontent.com/w3c/dxwg/dcat-service-simon/dcat/UML/DCAT-summary.png (not including greyed elements) as the provisional solution to an enlarged catalog scope, to allow us to move on and consider other DCAT matters for a while. dct:conformsTo moved up to dcat:Resource N.B. The model may be revisited later.
09:25:33 <AndreaPerego> +1
09:25:40 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> +1
09:25:44 <DaveBrowning> +1 to the proposal
09:25:44 <alejandra> +1
09:25:47 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1
09:25:47 <SimonCox> +1
09:26:09 <alejandra> +q about process
09:26:23 <SimonCox> ack alejandra
09:26:58 <alejandra> alejandra: are we then closing issues about this?
09:27:17 <alejandra> SimonCox: I think so, with the provision that issues can be reopened
09:28:06 <AndreaPerego> q+ to make a suggestion
09:28:17 <alejandra> ack
09:28:46 <alejandra> alejandra: we need to work out the defintions
09:29:00 <roba> +1
09:29:21 <alejandra> approved: accepting the proposal module fix of dct:conforms and definitions
09:29:36 <SimonCox> definitions will be refined and resolved on the lists and GitHub
09:29:39 <alejandra> s/module/modulo
09:29:55 <SimonCox> q?
09:29:59 <riccardoAlbertoni> ack
09:30:01 <riccardoAlbertoni> ack
09:30:05 <SimonCox> ack AndreaPerego
09:30:05 <Zakim> AndreaPerego, you wanted to make a suggestion
09:30:11 <DaveBrowning> q- about
09:30:16 <DaveBrowning> q- process
09:30:36 <alejandra> AndreaPerego: it would be good to have the link to the example
09:30:47 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1 to andrea
09:30:53 <SimonCox> also name of dcat:endPoint needs resolving
09:31:04 <alejandra> ... so if we close issues and there are things pending, let's open specific issues
09:31:11 <alejandra> +1 to AndreaPerego
09:31:19 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
09:31:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/05/24-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
09:31:25 <riccardoAlbertoni> s/andrea/AndreaPerego
09:31:36 <alejandra> +q
09:32:01 <alejandra> resolved: accepting the proposal module fix of dct:conforms and definitions
09:32:07 <AndreaPerego> s/approved: accepting/resolved: accepting/
09:32:09 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
09:32:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/05/24-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
09:32:33 <alejandra> alejandra: also reminding the need for query cases
09:32:44 <riccardoAlbertoni> Bye !
09:32:54 <DaveBrowning> bye