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16:01:04 <Avneesh> present+ George
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16:01:08 <dauwhe> Title: PBG
16:01:15 <tzviya> present+
16:01:21 <Avneesh> present+
16:01:21 <Rachel> present+
16:01:22 <laudrain> Wating for GoToMeeting opening
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16:01:47 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
16:01:56 <wolfgang> present+ wolfgang
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16:02:23 <Karen> present+ karen
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16:02:55 <Makoto> present*
16:03:01 <Makoto> present+
16:03:06 <Brian> present+
16:03:12 <jyoshii> present+
16:03:23 <Brian> is anyone else having trouble getting into the webbed?
16:03:32 <laudrain> Tzviya : do you have the GoToMeeting codes?
16:03:34 <tzviya> all of us
16:03:35 <garth> garth has joined #pbg
16:03:37 <Brian> webex
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16:03:41 <garth> present+ Garth
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16:03:51 <Dan_Sanicola> present+
16:03:53 <Brian> thanks for confirming
16:04:07 <dauwhe> Zakim, who is here?
16:04:07 <Zakim> Present: George, tzviya, Avneesh, Rachel, Bill_Kasdorf, wolfgang, karen, liisamk, Makoto, Brian, jyoshii, Garth, Dan_Sanicola
16:04:10 <Zakim> On IRC I see rkwright, Dan_Sanicola, garth, Brian, liisamk, BillM, Bill_Kasdorf, Makoto, RRSAgent, Zakim, laudrain, Avneesh, wolfgang, jyoshii, Rachel, tzviya, Karen, bigbluehat,
16:04:10 <Zakim> ... dauwhe
16:04:18 <dauwhe> present+ dauwhe
16:04:27 <BillM> present+
16:04:31 <rkwright> present+
16:04:32 <laudrain> Garth: would you mind opening the GoToMeeting?
16:04:56 <rkwright> Meeting should be open.  Laurent and I are thre.
16:05:03 <garth> I know think I have that knowledge!
16:05:13 <garth> s/know/don’t/
16:05:27 <laudrain> Ok, thanks
16:05:35 <Bill_Kasdorf> !! I won a writing prize as a freshman for an essay about John Cage's 4'33"!!
16:05:51 <George> George has joined #pbg
16:05:52 <liisamk> that is awesome Bill!
16:05:54 <garth> I’m dialed in and hear folks, FWIW.
16:06:04 <Bill_Kasdorf> also for an essay about Sgt. Peppers, which had just come out
16:06:29 <George> present+ George
16:07:21 <laudrain> GotoMeeting is open
16:08:14 <Rachel> scribnick: Rachel
16:08:32 <Rachel> Topic: epubcheck
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16:08:39 <laurentlemeur> laurentlemeur has joined #pbg
16:08:49 <laurentlemeur> present+
16:08:57 <Rachel> laudrain: we are talking about fixing and updating epubcheck and are talking about the process of finding developers
16:09:11 <pbelfanti> present+
16:09:24 <laurentlemeur> q+
16:09:28 <Rachel> tzviya: Rachel Liisa and I are working on an RFP; Rachel and I are meeting tomorrow to discuss
16:09:33 <Rachel> ack laurentlemeur
16:09:35 <laudrain> ack laurent
16:09:50 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:09:54 <George> present+ George
16:09:55 <Rachel> laurentlemeur: when the RFP is done, EDR can look at it and possibly apply
16:10:12 <Rachel> ...we could find a developer and project manager in Europe
16:10:41 <Makoto> Great! > Laurent
16:10:44 <Rachel> ...I think it would be interesting because it would be kept in the epub circle and it's a complement to the readium work we're doing now
16:10:49 <laudrain> ack Billk
16:10:59 <laudrain> ack Bill_K
16:11:15 <Rachel> Bill_Kasdorf: we also need to decide what we're doing on the fundraising side
16:11:17 <garth> q?
16:11:30 <Rachel> ... we should provide a scale based on company size
16:11:33 <laurentlemeur> s/EDR/EDRLab
16:12:11 <Rachel> Topic: Use Cases and Business Cases
16:12:29 <tzviya> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publ-wg/2018Apr/0012.html
16:12:52 <Rachel> tzviya: in the working group we talked about making sure the BG is more in line with what the WG is doing
16:13:25 <Rachel> ...more frequent communication will ensure that the use cases and business cases are well aligned
16:13:38 <Rachel> ...3.2 led to a lot of interest that we hadn't previously seen
16:14:00 <Rachel> ...one area that we're working on is improved references to the use cases
16:14:13 <laudrain> q?
16:14:20 <Rachel> ...we haven't done much work with the use cases since switching from the IG
16:14:31 <Avneesh> q+
16:14:34 <Rachel> ...how can we ensure interest in the WG and communication to the bG
16:14:40 <Rachel> ack Avneesh
16:14:41 <laudrain> ack avn
16:14:50 <tzviya> use cases https://w3c.github.io/dpub-pwp-ucr/
16:14:52 <wolfgang> s/bG/BG/
16:15:03 <Rachel> Avneesh: one major issue we'll hit is the the epub32 release
16:15:13 <Rachel> ...and then WP/PWP
16:15:26 <dauwhe> q+
16:15:27 <Makoto> There will be much delay.
16:15:43 <Rachel> ...how will we explain the rapid release or specs
16:16:02 <garth> q?
16:16:28 <Rachel> ...should we delay WP/PWP to prevent overwhelming the audience. We also do not want to risk losing the interest of the web community.
16:16:36 <laudrain> ack dauwhe
16:16:48 <BillM> q+
16:17:06 <laudrain> q+
16:17:27 <Rachel> dauwhe: epub32 should not change how people build ebooks... our messaging should be about epub3 and not epub3.2
16:17:28 <tzviya> avneesh: We need to make sure that we keep the business case for WP/PWP documented
16:17:44 <laudrain> ack BillM
16:17:59 <Rachel> BillM: dauwhe just said much of what I wanted to say
16:18:15 <tzviya> q+
16:18:24 <Rachel> ...it's important to note that 3.2 shows that W3C is continuing the custodianship of epub3
16:18:31 <Makoto> +1
16:18:41 <Rachel> ...it shows we're continuing to get things done post IDPF work
16:19:08 <Rachel> ...I think it was a conversation here last time; I think we should consider putting 3.2 on the formal recommendation track
16:19:09 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:19:41 <Rachel> ... that will help membership and participation in the W3C - to see the work continue on both fronts
16:20:15 <Rachel> ack laudrain
16:20:28 <Rachel> laudrain: it's not just epub 3.2 that's important, it's epubcheck
16:20:50 <Rachel> ...we need to produce the latest version of epubcheck in line with the epub3 specs
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16:21:46 <laurentlemeur> q+
16:21:48 <Rachel> ...I also think that the rest of the pwg work - the wp/pwp work - will be of great interest to the community and will be availabel before epub4
16:21:52 <laudrain> ack tzviya
16:22:07 <wolfgang> s/availabel/available/
16:22:31 <laudrain> q+
16:22:37 <Rachel> tzviya: I want to stress that one of the concerns with moving forward with WP is that we're supposed to be in synch with the BG, but the BG seems largely focused on the trade industry
16:22:55 <Rachel> ...we need business cases documented for different use cases
16:23:10 <Rachel> ...including scholarly, etc
16:23:19 <Rachel> ...please tell me if you have unique use cases
16:23:22 <laudrain> ack Bill_K
16:23:45 <Rachel> Bill_Kasdorf: I share avneesh's concern about confusion between epub3.2 and epub4
16:23:57 <Rachel> ... our priority should be wrapping up 3.2 quickly
16:24:11 <Rachel> ...so I dont think we should go down the rec track
16:24:30 <wolfgang> s/dont/don't/
16:24:31 <Rachel> ...once we have WP it should be embraced by communities that did not embrace epub
16:24:55 <laudrain> ack Laurent
16:24:55 <Rachel> ...while trade publishing stays with 3.2
16:25:23 <laudrain> me too
16:26:14 <Rachel> laurentlemeur: there is a need from this business group to consider the updates that WP could allow - 1) compatibility with WP 2) additional features - inclusion of audio books and the inclusion of enriched visual items
16:26:30 <laurentlemeur> s/WP/EPUB4
16:26:50 <laurentlemeur> s/visual items/visual narratives
16:27:38 <Rachel> laudrain: I think that what we discussed in terms of continuous channel from the WG to the BG, we should bring explicit business cases for each business vertical and each type - WP, PWP, EPUB4
16:28:02 <laudrain> q?
16:28:06 <laudrain> ack laud
16:28:10 <Bill_Kasdorf> the key difference will be HTML not XML
16:28:13 <garth> +1 to Luc
16:28:15 <Avneesh> +1
16:28:25 <Rachel> laudrain: who will be working on these business cases
16:28:27 <Makoto> om8cni2tw
16:28:39 <liisamk> q+
16:28:41 <BillM> q+
16:28:45 <Makoto> Sorry for my mistype.
16:28:47 <Rachel> Bill_Kasdorf: I can work on scholarly
16:28:55 <tzviya> q+
16:28:59 <Rachel> Rachel: I can work on education
16:29:07 <laudrain> ack liis
16:29:11 <Rachel> liisamk: what if we created a task force?
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16:29:33 <laudrain> ack BiilM
16:29:44 <laudrain> ack BillM
16:29:44 <Rachel> tzviya: would it violate rules to put a task force acrossBG and WG?
16:30:13 <Rachel> BillM: ideally the task force members are held to the patent policy
16:30:53 <Rachel> ...we the BG can invite people more easily
16:31:15 <Julian_Calderazi> Hiall. can't log in for some reason. But I'm here.
16:31:19 <Rachel> ...to comment on scholarly thing - I'll be at the atypon user group meeting in June
16:31:52 <Rachel> ...I will expressing some vision, but likely a personal vision of scholarly unless this task force moves ahead quickly
16:31:55 <laudrain> q?
16:31:58 <tzviya> q-
16:32:13 <Rachel> laudrain: have we answered tzviya's question about volunteers?
16:32:31 <BillM> thanks Tzivya!
16:32:43 <liisamk> q+
16:32:50 <Rachel> tzviya: I had been planning to meet with people from the WG. I volunteer to lead the task force from the business group and invite WG members as needed
16:32:54 <laudrain> ack Liisa
16:33:24 <Rachel> liisamk: I would recommend that you write up what the task force is doing and send it to the business group as an invitation to participate
16:33:29 <Rachel> topic: epub3.2
16:33:47 <Rachel> dauwhe: we are having weekly calls, closed an issue or two
16:34:03 <laudrain> q?
16:34:30 <Rachel> garth: I'm guessing 3.2 will be closer to mid this year
16:34:32 <Makoto> I would like to have some official review period.
16:34:38 <Makoto> +q
16:34:52 <garth> Yea, done enough for real review.
16:34:58 <laudrain> ack Makoto
16:35:15 <tzviya> q+ to ask how we advance a note to "CR"
16:35:30 <laudrain> ack Tzviya
16:35:30 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to ask how we advance a note to "CR"
16:35:30 <Rachel> makoto: after the completion of the first draft I plan to ask multiple publishers to carefully review - please have 1-2 month for this review period
16:35:46 <Rachel> tzviya: how do we advance this note to CR or PR?
16:35:55 <Rachel> ...do we want to try to outline these for 3.2?
16:36:12 <Rachel> dauwhe: I think we sort of make it up
16:36:25 <Rachel> ...starting with a draft report, and then a review period
16:36:37 <Rachel> ...and then the BG may meet to approve in an informal way
16:36:55 <Rachel> Bill_Kasdorf: what about the rec track?
16:36:57 <laudrain> q+
16:37:28 <Rachel> Bill_Kasdorf: we should have formal stages like the rec track
16:37:37 <Rachel> dauwhe: we have 0 new features
16:37:54 <Rachel> Bill_Kasdorf: it shouldn't be a challenge since it's a mild change
16:38:05 <Rachel> dauwhe: no new features, but alos no test suite
16:38:16 <wolfgang> s/alos/also/
16:38:19 <Rachel> ...so there is problem checking implementations
16:38:38 <Makoto> +q
16:39:35 <Rachel> laudrain: if we can validate to epub3.2 in epubcheck then we have implementation covered. This is why the epubcheck update is so important for validation
16:39:42 <laudrain> ack laudrain
16:39:58 <laudrain> ack Makoto
16:40:09 <Rachel> Makoto: I would like to make a lot of noise to support completing the creation of 3.2
16:40:32 <Rachel> ...can we announce the completion at an event?
16:41:03 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:41:29 <laudrain> ack Bill_k
16:41:30 <Rachel> laurentlemeur: march/may 2019 for the digital publishing summit
16:42:07 <laudrain> q?
16:42:13 <dauwhe> q+
16:42:17 <Rachel> Bill_Kasdorf: in encouraging support of 3.2, we should get reading systems to say that they accept 3.2
16:42:26 <laudrain> ack Dave
16:42:46 <Makoto> om8cni2tw
16:43:11 <Rachel> dauwhe: I think that's confusing the issue - we don't want to change the details
16:44:08 <Rachel> laudrain: we should share a list of events (a google doc?) of events were 3.2 should/could be announced?
16:44:19 <laudrain> q?
16:44:32 <dauwhe> ack dauwhe
16:44:35 <laudrain> ack Dave
16:44:36 <George> q+
16:44:46 <Brian> I need to excuse myself from this call to moderate a BISG webinar at 1 p.m. ET. My apologies.
16:44:47 <Rachel> Makoto: I will start the document
16:44:48 <garth> I’m planning on an update in Berlin next month.
16:44:56 <laudrain> ack George
16:45:28 <Rachel> George: I'll be promoting 3.2 (as well as epub3 in general) at accessibility events
16:45:28 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:45:33 <Avneesh> q+
16:45:37 <Rachel> ...I'm promoting the heck out of it for education
16:45:40 <laudrain> ack Bill_K
16:46:07 <Makoto> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rpjFsVplR3f_ppNnCsJfWiPGq9atQ8sSONqGNUJzDWE/edit?usp=sharing
16:46:10 <laudrain> ack Avn
16:46:45 <Bill_Kasdorf> thank you Avneesh
16:46:46 <Rachel> Avneesh: a little bit of confusion in communication - dauwhe suggested promoting epub3 and others are talking about announcements for 3.2
16:47:16 <Rachel> dauwhe: I'm not sure what to say at this point - every 3.0.1 file in the world will be compatible with 3.2
16:47:22 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:47:46 <Rachel> ...as people who work on the specs I think we are more deeply invested
16:48:01 <Makoto> +q
16:48:25 <laudrain> ack Bill_K
16:48:28 <Rachel> ...I don't know how we focus the encouragement to move to epub3 from epub2 but also announce these smaller changes in 3.2
16:48:54 <laudrain> ack makoto
16:48:57 <BillM> it's the same old thing but now it's "W3C EPUB 3" not "IDPF EPUB 3"
16:49:06 <Rachel> Bill_Kasdorf: that's the most important messaging when epub3.2 comes out - don't misconstrue the new decimal point, it's what you're used to
16:49:40 <Rachel> Topic: FXL workshop - manga and comics
16:50:15 <Rachel> BillM: we are working out the details - it will be sept 10th in Japan
16:50:29 <Rachel> ...we are soliciting participants
16:50:50 <Rachel> ...it will be a technical workshop but the program committee doesn't need to be technical experts
16:51:10 <Rachel> ...as long as they understand the market and it's needs
16:51:28 <Rachel> ...please email Ivan and myself to participate in the program committtee
16:51:33 <Karen> Karen has joined #pbg
16:51:39 <Rachel> ...W3C members are preferred but not required
16:51:44 <laudrain> q?
16:51:53 <Rachel> Makoto: I volunteer
16:52:04 <Makoto> I volunteer to be a co-chair
16:52:34 <Rachel> Topic: Accessing Higher Ground (AHG)
16:52:54 <Rachel> laudrain: there is an accessible epub track at the conference
16:53:06 <Rachel> ... November in Colorado
16:53:11 <Rachel> Topic: ISO
16:53:32 <Rachel> laudrain: we had a discussion in the ISO task force and I believe we have a concensus
16:54:11 <Rachel> Makoto: publish epub 3.0.1 as a fast track international standard and also publish ??? as a regular standard
16:54:25 <Bill_Kasdorf> s/???/accessibility
16:55:51 <George> Here is the link to the conferenc’s speaker registration form. General links that explains the conference is on the site.
16:55:52 <George> http://accessinghigherground.org/speaker-submissions/
16:56:19 <laudrain> q?
16:57:56 <George> Here is the link to the conferenc’s speaker registration form. General links that explains the conference is on the site.http://accessinghigherground.org/speaker-submissions/q+
16:57:57 <Rachel> Makoto: it is better if the proposal comes from the chair of this business group
16:58:14 <laudrain> q?
16:58:24 <Rachel> laudrain: so it will come from me
16:58:31 <Rachel> liisamk: no objections!
16:58:51 <Rachel> George: do we need to verify with W3C management?
16:59:48 <Rachel> BillM: there have been a few alternatives considered. if the business group considers this to be the right plan then we'll need the proposal from Makoto to validate this plan with the W3C management
17:00:08 <Rachel> laudrain: We have consensus
17:00:29 <Rachel> BillM: once it's written up I can bring it to W3C management
17:00:45 <Rachel> Makoto: none of the options are closed yet, but we would like to pursue option 4
17:01:03 <Rachel> laudrain: next meeting is in 2 weeks... thanks everyone!
17:01:07 <BillM> BillM has left #pbg
17:01:37 <Julian_Calderazi> Rachel you still there?
17:02:15 <Rachel> yes
17:02:47 <Julian_Calderazi> got a sec? (skype?)
17:06:33 <dauwhe> rrsagent: draft minutes
17:06:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/04/24-pbg-minutes.html dauwhe
17:06:39 <dauwhe> rrsagent: make logs public
17:07:33 <dauwhe> Zakim, bye
17:07:33 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been George, tzviya, Avneesh, Rachel, Bill_Kasdorf, wolfgang, karen, liisamk, Makoto, Brian, jyoshii, Garth, Dan_Sanicola, dauwhe,
17:07:33 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pbg
17:07:36 <Zakim> ... BillM, rkwright, laurentlemeur, pbelfanti
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