14:35:12 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pbgsc
14:35:12 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2018/04/20-pbgsc-irc
14:35:13 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
14:35:13 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Steering Committee Telco
14:35:13 <ivan> Chair: Luc
14:35:13 <ivan> Date: 2018-04-20
14:35:13 <ivan> Regrets+
14:55:20 <BillM> BillM has joined #pbgsc
14:57:59 <laudrain> laudrain has joined #pbgsc
14:58:34 <laudrain> present+
14:58:55 <tzviya> present+
14:59:29 <ivan> present+
14:59:36 <dauwhe> present+ dauwhe
14:59:40 <RickJ> RickJ has joined #pbgsc
15:00:49 <laudrain> have we quantified the EPUBCheck « ask" ? BillM
15:00:49 <laudrain> Tzviya’s mail
15:00:50 <laudrain> update on September workshop on manga/comics and solicitation of volunteers/ideas for program committee members (we can also ask the entire BG). BillM
15:00:51 <laudrain> update about Accessing Higher Ground, November 14-16 in Colorado. Track name Accessible EPUB is Here George
15:01:21 <BillM> present+
15:02:38 <liisamk_> liisamk_ has joined #pbgsc
15:02:50 <liisamk_> present + liisamk
15:03:00 <Rachel> present+
15:03:10 <dauwhe> Zakim, who is here?
15:03:10 <Zakim> Present: laudrain, tzviya, ivan, dauwhe, BillM, Rachel
15:03:12 <Zakim> On IRC I see liisamk_, RickJ, laudrain, BillM, RRSAgent, Zakim, ivan, Rachel, dauwhe, tzviya, Karen
15:03:17 <RickJ> present+
15:03:30 <garth> garth has joined #pbgsc
15:03:36 <garth> present+ Garth
15:03:50 <dauwhe> scribenick: dauwhe
15:03:57 <dauwhe> laudrain: let's get started
15:04:06 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #pbgsc
15:04:08 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
15:04:20 <dauwhe> ... I have collected four topics for the agenda
15:04:30 <jyoshii> jyoshii has joined #pbgsc
15:04:33 <dauwhe> ... one about the Epubcheck "ask"
15:04:34 <George> George has joined #pbgsc
15:04:34 <Bill_Kasdorf> could you put that in the irc again?
15:05:01 <dauwhe> BillM: (moving closer and closer)
15:05:12 <dauwhe> ... I sent that email after missing some calls
15:05:22 <dauwhe> ... I wasn't sure if we'd quantified what we wanted people to pay
15:05:29 <George> present+ George
15:05:38 <dauwhe> ... we wanted to start penciling in people for amounts
15:05:45 <dauwhe> ... Karen talked to overdrive at ebookcraft
15:05:53 <dauwhe> ... we need to take the next steps
15:05:57 <dauwhe> ... how much will we ask for?
15:06:07 <tzviya> q+
15:06:08 <dauwhe> ... I didn't get an answer, so it's still an open question
15:06:16 <dauwhe> liisamk_: we should take a proposal to the PBG
15:06:20 <jyoshii> #present+
15:06:24 <dauwhe> ... Bill, you had an idea on how to structure?
15:06:33 <dauwhe> BillM: it was based on previous conversation
15:06:38 <dauwhe> ... 100K is too much
15:06:59 <dauwhe> ... 1k isn't enough
15:07:07 <dauwhe> ... so we're in the 5k to 20k range
15:07:13 <dauwhe> ... we should ask double what we expect
15:07:26 <dauwhe> ... that's what led to the numbers in the email
15:07:37 <dauwhe> ... we need to make an ask to find out what the market would bear
15:07:45 <dauwhe> ... we should ask on the high side, but within reason
15:07:48 <dauwhe> q?
15:07:50 <Bill_Kasdorf> we need to define tiers of sponsorship
15:08:03 <laudrain> ack tzviya
15:08:07 <dauwhe> tzviya: we do have the estimates for hour
15:08:12 <RickJ> q+
15:08:19 <dauwhe> ... I thought we were putting together an RFP
15:08:30 <dauwhe> ... but we also haven't settled on the fundraising platform, and that needs to be in place
15:08:32 <dauwhe> ack tz
15:08:44 <laudrain> ack Rick
15:08:57 <dauwhe> RickJ: early in this conversation, we'd talked to larger customers of coresource
15:09:18 <dauwhe> ... there was consensus that heavy users a number of 10k would be looked at as a cost of doing business
15:09:31 <dauwhe> liisamk_: is that annual or one-time?
15:09:39 <BillM> q+
15:09:41 <dauwhe> RickJ: that was for the "how to you fix it" conversation
15:09:50 <dauwhe> ... it's at least a data point
15:09:58 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: publishers not reading systems?
15:10:01 <dauwhe> RickJ: yes
15:10:08 <dauwhe> George: I don't know if MIT can accept funds
15:10:10 <laudrain> q+
15:10:15 <dauwhe> ... they might take a hefty cut
15:10:26 <dauwhe> ... we need to find out where money is going
15:10:35 <dauwhe> ... DAISY might be able to help, or EDRLab
15:11:00 <laudrain> ack Bill
15:11:11 <dauwhe> BillM: I see RFP process and soliciting proposals as independent of donations
15:11:20 <dauwhe> ... if we serialize those things we'll lose time
15:11:44 <dauwhe> ... knowing how much $ we have will help
15:11:51 <dauwhe> ... we should do things in parallel
15:11:54 <liisamk_> q+
15:12:34 <dauwhe> laudrain: fundraising can be separate from who does the work
15:12:49 <dauwhe> ... we need to choose company like EDRLab to do the work, as they are skilled in this area
15:12:51 <laudrain> ack laud
15:13:05 <dauwhe> George: DAISY may bid on the RFP if we add staff
15:13:07 <tzviya> q+ to point out that EDRLab has not offered to do the work
15:13:10 <dauwhe> ... but not at the moment
15:13:21 <dauwhe> liisamk_: I don't think that anyone was suggesting we serialize
15:13:28 <laudrain> ack liisamk
15:13:43 <dauwhe> ... we need to figure out how we will manage funds before we solicit funds
15:14:06 <dauwhe> ... penciling people in is fine, but we need an answer when some one gives us a check
15:14:09 <dauwhe> BillM: agreed
15:14:22 <dauwhe> tzviya: Liisa said what I was going to say
15:14:24 <laudrain> ack tzviya
15:14:24 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to point out that EDRLab has not offered to do the work
15:14:37 <dauwhe> ... EDRLab had not volunteered; we were talking about an RFP
15:14:42 <laudrain> q+
15:14:49 <dauwhe> ... if other people want to work on the RFP it would help
15:15:00 <laudrain> q-
15:15:04 <dauwhe> liisamk_: I won't have time for a while
15:15:09 <dauwhe> tzviya: neither will i
15:15:17 <dauwhe> liisamk_: we need volunteers for RFP
15:15:23 <dauwhe> Rachel: I can get the skeleton together
15:15:27 <dauwhe> liisamk_: awesome!
15:15:39 <dauwhe> laudrain: this is one point we will bring to PBG next week
15:15:44 <dauwhe> ... any other comments?
15:16:00 <ivan> Topic: WG request
15:16:05 <tzviya> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publ-wg/2018Apr/0012.html
15:16:16 <dauwhe> tzviya: I sent this email to the working group after many discussions with Garth and Ivan
15:16:22 <dauwhe> ... we talked about it at PWG on Monday
15:16:33 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/publ-wg/Meetings/Minutes/2018/2018-04-16-pwg.html
15:16:42 <dauwhe> ... one issue we talked about is that we're concerned that the WG is divorced from the reality of business needs
15:16:54 <laudrain> q+
15:16:55 <dauwhe> ... we want to talk about the influence the BG can have on the WG
15:17:09 <dauwhe> ... and we want the work of the WG to be in line with the needs of the BG
15:17:21 <dauwhe> ... we need to make sure our use cases are reflected in our specs
15:17:34 <laudrain> q?
15:17:54 <dauwhe> ... my use case on WP for scholarly publishing is not widely understood; I'll write it up
15:18:01 <dauwhe> ... there needs to be more interaction between BG and WG
15:18:08 <dauwhe> ... even though there's overlap
15:18:20 <dauwhe> ... we want to make sure the chartered influence of the BG is actually there
15:18:28 <dauwhe> laudrain: it's an important subject
15:18:53 <dauwhe> ... it matched with the idea I mentioned about a combined meeting at TPAC with BG, WG, and CG, focused on business subjects
15:18:56 <dauwhe> ... perhaps that's too late
15:19:05 <dauwhe> ... this kind of discussion must be well-prepared
15:19:16 <ivan> q+
15:19:22 <ivan> ack laudrain
15:19:35 <liisamk_> q+
15:19:51 <laudrain> ack laud
15:19:58 <dauwhe> ivan:
15:20:00 <dauwhe> ...
15:20:01 <dauwhe> ...
15:20:11 <dauwhe> ...
15:20:19 <garth> q?
15:20:27 <garth> ack liisamk_
15:20:40 <laudrain> ack liisa
15:20:47 <dauwhe> liisamk_: is there a particular discussion you're having now that should come back to the BG?
15:20:56 <dauwhe> ... we can get that collaboration started if we have a topic
15:21:08 <dauwhe> tzviya: I could give you a history of how we got here, but it's rather technical
15:21:19 <dauwhe> ... around the WAM spec
15:21:42 <laudrain> q+
15:21:49 <dauwhe> ... our whole approach has been using readium technology, and so we're essentially recreating EPUB with a different serialization
15:21:57 <dauwhe> ... so we need to take a step back
15:22:05 <dauwhe> ... how are we approaching WP?
15:22:16 <dauwhe> ... are trying to start with the web, or start with EPUB?
15:22:26 <BillM> q+
15:22:47 <dauwhe> liisamk_: is the business question there, do people see a need for a native browser to open packaged publication documents
15:22:55 <dauwhe> garth: I think the issue is unpackaged
15:22:59 <dauwhe> liisamk_: how do we frame that?
15:23:19 <dauwhe> ... if you ask if PRH needs a way to read EPUBs outside of reading systems, I don't think we need that
15:23:25 <dauwhe> ... maybe we should
15:23:38 <dauwhe> ... but you have to ask the Q in a way that the business people can answer
15:23:54 <laudrain> ack ivan
15:24:00 <dauwhe> ivan: let me go back to what Liisa said
15:24:04 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:24:13 <dauwhe> ... what you are asking is one of the possible business question
15:24:16 <dauwhe> ... another aspect is
15:24:40 <dauwhe> ... if we do what we plan to do, from the content point of view, there will be no different between what I can put on the web and what I can put in epub
15:25:03 <dauwhe> ... how important it is that web devvelopers can use the exact same skills to make book content
15:25:23 <dauwhe> ... today web devs can't make books, because they need to understand how epub is different from the web at large
15:25:33 <garth> q?
15:25:34 <dauwhe> ... if we do WP right, that gap disappears
15:25:41 <garth> q+
15:25:47 <dauwhe> ... and there's a question if that has value for the publishing community
15:25:58 <dauwhe> ... going back to my original comment about TPAC
15:26:11 <dauwhe> ... we should not think in terms of a one-off get-together at TPAC
15:26:27 <dauwhe> ... why would american publishers come to Lyon for a 2-hour meeting? I don't see that happening.
15:26:38 <dauwhe> ... we need a continuous channel between the BG and the WG
15:26:48 <dauwhe> ... another way of putting the problem is
15:27:13 <dauwhe> ... the WG might need to re-invent publications from the bottom up, and develop new APIs that might eventually be in browsers
15:27:20 <dauwhe> ... and with that we can do wonderful things
15:27:28 <dauwhe> ... which is interesting and challenging
15:27:40 <dauwhe> ... but I don't know if that's viable from the business perspetive
15:27:49 <dauwhe> ... the other alternative is to be more pragmatic
15:28:09 <dauwhe> ... and perhaps start with what the EPUB 3.1 WG called browser friendly manifestation
15:28:25 <dauwhe> ... and add offline, and the ability to have an unpackaged publication
15:28:40 <dauwhe> ... the geeky folks would be happy inventing new stuff
15:28:59 <dauwhe> laudrain: the question of business case will be easier for publishers for EPUB4
15:29:09 <dauwhe> ... we have no roadmap for web publications as publishers
15:29:32 <dauwhe> ... we have started with WP because some kind of minimal architecture for web content to be published as publication
15:29:41 <dauwhe> ... this led to FPWD of WPUB
15:29:51 <dauwhe> ... even the infoset is far away from EPUB
15:30:12 <dauwhe> ... we have a tension here; if we started to do epub 4 we wouldn't allow the web devs to publish light and easy web pubs
15:30:52 <garth> q?
15:30:52 <dauwhe> ... but my company doesn't see a business case from these simple WPUBs
15:31:00 <dauwhe> ... but we're not discussing EPUB4 yet
15:31:01 <laudrain> ack laud
15:31:06 <garth> ack BillM
15:31:09 <dauwhe> BillM: going back to what tzviya said
15:31:11 <ivan> ack laudrain
15:31:11 <ivan> present+
15:31:17 <dauwhe> ... I've stayed out of the tech discussion intentionally
15:31:45 <dauwhe> ... partly because I was on the board of Readium, and was wary of conflicts of interest
15:31:58 <dauwhe> ... I think tzviya's comments on the readium way vs web dev way
15:32:03 <dauwhe> ... is begging the question
15:32:12 <dauwhe> ... I see the web dev community bifurcating
15:32:20 <dauwhe> ... react.js is the most popular framework
15:32:28 <dauwhe> ... it ignores the dom and html
15:32:42 <dauwhe> ... it treats the browser as a detail
15:32:55 <dauwhe> ... it's not a normal way, but it's a practical way to build apps
15:33:04 <dauwhe> ... I think the readium world is similar
15:33:16 <dauwhe> ... it reflects an increasing schism in the web world
15:33:33 <dauwhe> ... I don't know if business reasons will make the tech decisions for us
15:33:38 <dauwhe> ... markup vs script
15:33:45 <ivan> q+
15:33:57 <dauwhe> ... we need the tech folks to think about that
15:34:13 <dauwhe> ... the readium effort is driven by the priorities of the people developing the software
15:34:17 <garth> ack Bill_Kasdorf
15:34:24 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: I haven't been on the call for the last ten minutes
15:34:24 <laudrain> ack Billk
15:34:47 <dauwhe> ... my comment is based on liisamk_ comment, where PRH said that putting books on the web isn't a priority
15:34:56 <dauwhe> ... but a scholarly publisher would say that's exactly what they wanted
15:35:01 <laudrain> ack garth
15:35:19 <tzviya> q+
15:35:25 <dauwhe> garth: I think what Luc and Liisa match what Google thinks; not so interested in WP but interested in EPUB4
15:35:31 <dauwhe> ... might be opening to switch orders
15:35:37 <dauwhe> ... but the crux of tzviya's email
15:36:04 <dauwhe> ... we looked at the enthusiasm around EPUB 3.2 and EPUBcheck, but not enthusiam around WP, as that's longer-term
15:36:13 <dauwhe> ... maybe slow down WP
15:36:21 <laudrain> q?
15:36:24 <laudrain> q+
15:36:43 <dauwhe> ... maybe that's reasonable, as BG is naturally more pragmatic
15:36:45 <garth> ack ivan
15:37:06 <dauwhe> ivan: back to what Laurent (??) said
15:37:11 <dauwhe> ... the term EPUB 4 stands in the way
15:37:18 <tzviya> s/Laurent/Luc
15:37:27 <dauwhe> ... we all have this tendency to merge two technical aspects
15:37:29 <laudrain> thanks Tzviya
15:37:32 <dauwhe> ... one is content and one is packaging
15:37:44 <dauwhe> ... in epub3, these things are rarely separated
15:37:56 <dauwhe> ... in the outside world they are never separated
15:38:07 <dauwhe> ... doing epub4 first is a meaningless statement
15:38:14 <dauwhe> ... epub4 could be packaging around wp
15:38:21 <dauwhe> ... there is no contradiction there
15:38:26 <garth> q?
15:38:32 <dauwhe> ... there are large publishing areas which do not care about packaging
15:38:41 <dauwhe> ... but this area is not represented in our BG
15:38:58 <dauwhe> ... I have contact with scholarly publishers, not only wiley
15:39:18 <dauwhe> ... they don't care about packaging; they put PDF up there, but the primary medium for publication is the web
15:39:29 <dauwhe> ... so let's not make a false distinction between EPUB4 and WP
15:39:42 <dauwhe> garth: I respectfully disagree
15:39:55 <dauwhe> ... when I start with EPUB4, I don't think the packaging is important
15:40:05 <dauwhe> ... but when   i say starting with epub 4
15:40:26 <dauwhe> ... I say take a look at epub32, see how do do everything in a web-compatible way,
15:40:36 <dauwhe> ... see what falls out
15:40:41 <dauwhe> ivan: I see that as WP
15:40:50 <dauwhe> garth: maybe it's a terminology issue
15:40:55 <dauwhe> George: can you repeat that?
15:41:04 <dauwhe> tzviya: I believe that we're all saying the same thing
15:41:05 <laudrain> ack Tzviya
15:41:19 <dauwhe> ... what Garth, Ivan and I proposed was feature compatibility with epub in wp
15:41:24 <dauwhe> ... but will do everything epub can do now
15:41:36 <dauwhe> ... we don't have epub:type, but we duplicate that functionality
15:41:43 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to WP is feature compatible with EPUB but is pure OWP
15:41:49 <garth> and likely be semi-round-trip-able with EPUB 3.2
15:41:52 <dauwhe> ... so I can can open, well, not the package because it's not packaged
15:42:06 <dauwhe> ... mabye we don't need both pwp and epub4
15:42:20 <dauwhe> ... the functionalitiy is wp, the packaging is epub4
15:42:20 <laudrain> ack laud
15:42:25 <dauwhe> laudrain: I'm not sure
15:42:38 <dauwhe> ... i don't want epub4 to start before wp
15:42:46 <dauwhe> ... I want profiles
15:43:02 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill K has always been in favor of profiles too
15:43:12 <dauwhe> ... i think we should have this idea of web publication with idea of what makes pub different from web site
15:43:21 <dauwhe> ... then we have to build more complex things
15:43:43 <garth> q/
15:43:45 <garth> q?
15:43:48 <dauwhe> ... for example, we said a WP might not have a mandatory title, but it would be mandatory in EPUB4
15:43:55 <tzviya> q+
15:43:58 <dauwhe> ... I need it to be what a web dev can do
15:44:02 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to Luc's example of title not mandatory in WP but mandatory in EPUB
15:44:10 <dauwhe> ... it can't block any evolution/profile of WP
15:44:24 <ivan> q+
15:44:35 <dauwhe> ... we should move on from WP and start to build other specs as soon as possible
15:44:43 <dauwhe> ... then it will be easier to discuss use cases
15:45:08 <dauwhe> tzviya: I agree with you, too
15:45:11 <ivan> q-
15:45:20 <ivan> q+
15:45:21 <dauwhe> ... one suggestion on monday was to start with a minimal WP and then add requirements
15:45:24 <ivan> ack tzviya
15:45:37 <dauwhe> ... or maybe adding requirements when we get to EPUB
15:45:43 <dauwhe> ... this is more a discussion for the WG
15:45:47 <laudrain> q?
15:46:01 <dauwhe> ... the key point here is the involvement of the BG
15:46:21 <dauwhe> ... sometimes there are specific requests on features, but we also need general monitoring
15:46:24 <liisamk_> Q+
15:46:28 <dauwhe> ... we're trying to sync with use cases
15:46:35 <dauwhe> ... I'll try to have summaries for the SC
15:46:47 <dauwhe> ... as ivan said, there needs to be continuious engagement with the BG
15:46:54 <dauwhe> ivan: let's not go into tech details
15:47:03 <dauwhe> ... the problem with the WG is a social engineering thing
15:47:04 <laudrain> q+
15:47:10 <laudrain> ack Ivan
15:47:20 <dauwhe> ... if we don't have a clear framework, we dive into experimental such
15:47:31 <dauwhe> ... which may lead to years of discussions and standards that aren't useful
15:47:47 <dauwhe> ... and w3c is less  tolerant of this now
15:48:02 <dauwhe> ... this group can help keep the WG within business needs
15:48:14 <dauwhe> ... we have to accept hard facts
15:48:32 <dauwhe> ... in the next 2-3 years core browser things will not pick up things we define
15:48:42 <dauwhe> ... there may be specialized browsers built on the top of the core
15:48:50 <dauwhe> ... this has consequences on architecture
15:49:06 <dauwhe> ... is this adding active JS into the publication acceptable?
15:49:17 <dauwhe> ... this is the interaction we need contantly
15:49:22 <laudrain> ack Liis
15:49:38 <dauwhe> liisamk_: tzviya, it would be great if you could give an update in the BG for what you proposed this week, and what you agreed on
15:49:47 <ivan> +1 to liisa
15:49:54 <dauwhe> ... in a way that helps them understand how this works for scholarly publishers, etc
15:50:03 <tzviya> i can do that
15:50:08 <dauwhe> ... and as issues come up, you want to discuss them with the BG
15:50:29 <dauwhe> laudrain: the idea of a channel between BG and WG will help with use case
15:50:47 <dauwhe> ... what are business case of web publications? that could be a discussion we could have in BG
15:51:01 <dauwhe> ... what are the business cases? what can it do? what does it solve for companies? for publishers?
15:51:16 <dauwhe> ... and then we have the discussion again for PWP, and again for EPUB4
15:51:23 <dauwhe> ... bring in business cases at each step
15:51:39 <dauwhe> laudrain: we still have two topics
15:51:57 <dauwhe> ... an update from BillM on September workshop, and from George on AHG in Colorado
15:52:05 <ivan> Topic: Manga/comics Workshop update
15:52:11 <dauwhe> BillM: I need one minute
15:52:26 <dauwhe> ... we are firming up plans for a manga workshop in TOkyo sponsored by Keio
15:52:40 <dauwhe> ... we have a couple of program commitee members identified
15:52:57 <dauwhe> ... we should solicit the BG for volunteers; that should be on BG agenda
15:53:13 <dauwhe> ... I'll defer details until BG call, where I could spend five minutes
15:53:25 <dauwhe> ... should this be agenda for next weeks BG call
15:53:47 <dauwhe> dauwhe: why are we doing this workshop?
15:54:09 <dauwhe> BillM: short answer: japan uses FXL a lot, and manga is half the market
15:54:13 <laudrain> q+
15:54:24 <dauwhe> ... the concern is that we haven't focused on those needs
15:54:44 <dauwhe> ... both for EPUB 3 enhancements and needs for WP etc
15:55:03 <laudrain> and EDRLab has also such a WG on Bandes dessinées / Comics /manga
15:55:09 <dauwhe> ... the idea is to get experts together, so that manga are focused on
15:55:50 <dauwhe> laudrain: EDRLab has a working group on BD; we need to put together requirements with Japan
15:56:06 <dauwhe> ... no objections
15:56:14 <dauwhe> George: update on AHG
15:56:16 <laudrain> ack Laud
15:56:27 <ivan> Topic: AHG event
15:56:43 <dauwhe> ... it's a good-sized conf focused on higher ed; last year 650 people, this and CSUN are the 2 places in the US where we can promote EPUB
15:56:56 <dauwhe> ... some sectors of this community have been pushing back because they don't understand it
15:57:02 <dauwhe> ... they're used to chopping and scanning
15:57:12 <dauwhe> ... we have a track over three days
15:57:24 <dauwhe> ... we want to shape the proposals so we can educate that community
15:57:43 <dauwhe> ... Jonathan Thurston is chair of BISG a11y advocacy group, looks like it will be going
15:57:48 <ivan> q+
15:57:53 <Rachel> q+
15:57:56 <dauwhe> ... over the next three weeks we'll help people put together proposals
15:58:12 <dauwhe> ... some people from outside our community will be doing proposals for that track
15:58:18 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: what is the track?
15:58:25 <dauwhe> George: Accessible EPUB is here
15:58:36 <dauwhe> ... current stuff, why it's great, conformance to standards
15:58:40 <dauwhe> ... use of Ace
15:58:49 <dauwhe> ... stuff vitalsource is doing
15:58:55 <dauwhe> ... stuff on a11y of reading apps
15:58:59 <dauwhe> ... best practices
15:59:03 <dauwhe> ... purchasing recs
15:59:10 <dauwhe> ... buy born-accessible content
15:59:25 <dauwhe> ... the LD community uses the Kurzweil product; their EPUB support is getting better
15:59:28 <dauwhe> ... lots of things
15:59:34 <laudrain> ack Ivan
15:59:43 <dauwhe> ivan: for the minutes, can you give us dates and URL
15:59:56 <laudrain> ack Rachel
16:00:03 <dauwhe> Rachel: george, how are we coordinating to avoid overlap in proposals
16:00:13 <dauwhe> George: jonathan has asked BISG for a coordination call
16:00:22 <dauwhe> ... BISG doesn't have a mailing list for us
16:00:28 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: they've offered to create one
16:00:33 <dauwhe> laudrain: we can share by mail
16:00:39 <dauwhe> ...we are at the hour
16:01:00 <dauwhe> ... I can't work on agenda now; liisamk_ or rick can you help?
16:01:10 <dauwhe> RickJ: I'm heading to Asia
16:01:29 <dauwhe> laudrain: thanks everyone
16:01:36 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:01:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/04/20-pbgsc-minutes.html ivan