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15:42:06 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
15:42:06 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Business Group Telco
15:42:06 <ivan> Chair: Liisa
15:42:06 <ivan> Date: 2018-04-10
15:42:06 <ivan> Regrets+ brian, Luc, jensklingelhoefer, mateus
15:42:06 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2018Apr/0009.html
15:42:07 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2018-04-10: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2018Apr/0009.html
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15:57:42 <ivan> present+
15:57:50 <ivan> present+ wolfgang
15:58:03 <ivan> guests+ Steve_Breault
15:59:56 <tzviya> present+
16:00:17 <Avneesh> present+
16:01:02 <ivan> present+ George
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16:01:24 <George> George has joined #pbg
16:02:05 <George> present+ George
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16:02:12 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
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16:02:48 <BillM> present+ BillM
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16:02:57 <ivan> present+ rkwright
16:02:59 <liisamk> present+
16:03:01 <ivan> present+ laurent
16:03:04 <Rachel> present+
16:03:05 <rkwright> present+
16:03:15 <ivan> present+ rachel, billm
16:03:20 <ivan> present+ liisa
16:04:23 <rkwright> I will volunteer to scribe
16:04:53 <dauwhe> present+ dauwhe
16:04:57 <ivan> scribenick: rkwright
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16:05:53 <laurentlemeur> present+
16:05:56 <rkwright> Introductions:  Steve Breault, working on tokenizing ePubs with Blockchain
16:06:40 <rkwright> ISO Meeting:
16:07:08 <rkwright> george: 5 options available.  Goal was to identify actions to evaluate the recommnendations
16:07:37 <Avneesh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/wiki/Five-options-for-creating-ISO-IEC-specifications
16:08:03 <rkwright> ... There are a number of viable options.  There will be a meeting in May in which ISO wants to know what we want to put forth for certification
16:08:31 <Karen> present+ Karen
16:08:35 <rkwright> ...  Also looked at other options, such as completing EPUB 3.2 done as a CG report
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16:08:57 <pbelfanti> Present+
16:09:18 <rkwright> ... Then we could decide that if that should be chartered as a WG.  If we did that, then we could use the PIAS (?) method to point the forward for ISO certification
16:09:34 <rkwright> ...  BUt it is very important to complete 3.2
16:09:41 <ivan> q+
16:09:46 <wolfgang> s/PIAS/PAS/
16:10:12 <rkwright> ... If we take that route than that is the simplest route.
16:10:57 <ivan> q-
16:11:03 <rkwright> ... Another option would be that after some country endorsed EPUB as a national standard, then we could move forward, but that seems like a unlikely scenario
16:11:06 <ivan> q+
16:12:28 <tzviya> ack ivan
16:12:59 <rkwright> Ivan: A couple of items to add to George's list.  Option 1 would require we would need to set up a new WG.  But we do have an agreeement with ISO so such fast-tracking can be done without changes to the proposed spec.
16:13:26 <rkwright> Liisa: Does this mean we DON'T have to rewrite to submit to ISO?
16:14:08 <rkwright> Ivan: Yes, that is correct, though there is no guarantee that the W3C members would approve so not a slam-dunk
16:14:17 <tzviya> q+
16:14:58 <rkwright> George:  I would be concerned about submitting a spec to ISO that WASN'T a W3C Rec since we would risk changes after the fact.
16:15:53 <ivan> ack tzviya
16:16:00 <rkwright> Tzviya:  Think we would have a hard time getting approval for a 3.2 spec since we have a EPUB 4 in process.
16:16:17 <ivan> q+
16:17:33 <rkwright> Ivan:  Share the concern, but am less pessimistic about the chances for success. But we need to be careful to make sure the specs are clear and negotiations go on before.
16:17:35 <rkwright> q+
16:18:25 <rkwright> ivan: Which ever route we choose, it will not be easy.  There are complications to doing some in W3C and some in ISO
16:18:35 <ivan> ack ivan
16:18:36 <laurentlemeur> q+
16:18:57 <ivan> ack rkwright
16:19:00 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
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16:19:31 <ivan> ack laurentlemeur
16:19:42 <garth> present+ Garth
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16:20:12 <rkwright> rkwright:  Agree that there may be some problems with 3.2 and 4 not that different.  But isn't that the point? If they are not, what are doing?
16:20:23 <garth> q?
16:20:39 <ivan> q+
16:20:48 <rkwright> laurent:  Need too be careful that there are some that simply don't like EPUB, whatever version.
16:20:57 <ivan> ack Bill_Kasdorf
16:21:17 <Avneesh> q+
16:21:36 <rkwright> BillK:  Note that there is also a timing issue.  ISO could be very slow.  And potentially we could complete EPUB 4 BEFORE ISO completes its work, which would not be good.
16:21:58 <liisamk> ack ivan
16:22:32 <rkwright> Ivan: Key question is "Do we want to do 3.2 as an ISO standard?"
16:22:44 <garth> q+
16:22:55 <liisamk> ack Avneesh
16:23:13 <laurentlemeur> also, EPUB 3.2 cannot be defined as a "Web standard".
16:23:34 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:23:52 <liisamk> ack garth
16:24:02 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to focusing on EPUB 3.0.1 and not doing 3.2 as an ISO standard
16:24:08 <rkwright> avneesh:  George's first two options are quite complex.  Do we want 3.2 to be an ISO standard?  May be more important to focus on3.0.1. as an ISO standard.
16:24:09 <Bill_Kasdorf> q-
16:24:21 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:25:07 <Bill_Kasdorf> q-
16:25:26 <rkwright> garth:  Much truth here.  Don't think this group thinks EPUB 4 is that important.  This group and industry think that 3.2 is is more important. Esp. resolving the 3.1 problems.
16:26:47 <tzviya> q+
16:27:59 <rkwright> george: Makoto's immediate desire to work on 3.0.1 as an ISO standard, as does the EPUB a11y spec.  Further, we continue to push 3.2 as the working spec and the target of EPUBCHeck, etc. will all work in our favor.
16:28:17 <garth> a?
16:28:20 <garth> q?
16:29:24 <Avneesh> q+
16:29:30 <garth> q+
16:30:00 <rkwright> tzviya: Need to be careful about what we "decide" in this group as this group is small, just a subset of a much larger group.  Perhaps we might be better off to focus more on the a11y work. What are our goals?   W3C specs?  ISO specs?  3.2?  4?
16:30:02 <garth> ack tzviya
16:30:11 <liisamk> ack Avneesh
16:31:17 <rkwright> avneesh:  The A11y spec has a dependency on the EPUB spec, so the A11y spec cannot become an ISO standard without EPUB becoming an ISO standard
16:31:45 <rkwright> garth: Sees EPUB 4 as inspirational not critical path to success like 3.2
16:31:48 <garth> ack garth
16:32:16 <ivan> q+
16:32:24 <garth> s/inspirational/aspirational/
16:32:33 <rkwright> liisa: We still need to give feedback to George so he can go back to the ISO group in May
16:33:20 <liisamk> ack ivan
16:33:23 <Avneesh> q+
16:33:25 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:33:33 <rkwright> ivan: Bottom line is that in order to make something an ISO standard is a LOT of work.  3.0.1 as is could be submitted.  But 3.2??
16:33:50 <Bill_Kasdorf> q-
16:34:12 <Avneesh> q-
16:35:32 <rkwright> BillK: There would need to be some revisions to EPUB 3.0.1 language?  But 3.0.1. is already a national standard in Korea, so that may smooth the path.
16:36:09 <rkwright> George:  This might be a good path, but we need to be careful that this work doesn't negatively impact work on 3.2
16:37:08 <ivan> Topic: meeting schedule
16:37:16 <Bill_Kasdorf> For the record I recall Makoto saying that he thinks the prospects for Korea to submit 3.0.1 to ISO are slim
16:37:44 <ivan> Topic: EPUB3.2 report
16:37:47 <rkwright> liisa: PBG Meeting Cadence.  Have decided to meet every other week, but to shift time from Asia and NA
16:38:29 <rkwright> Reading System Update:
16:38:30 <ivan> Topic: RS update
16:39:42 <rkwright> George:  Attempting to crowdsource the testing process.  More than 50 people have signed up.  Next step is to get testing done, gather the results, etc.
16:40:20 <liisamk> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11m1rsRIoRbX6DV530VeAS0Nx_vN5ugRsUDODDuW2T3E/edit#gid=0
16:40:30 <ivan> Topic: EPUBCheck update
16:40:48 <rkwright> liisa: Trying to capture the list of top things to fix so we can prioritize the process.  See link in minutes.
16:40:56 <laurentlemeur> q+
16:41:26 <tzviya> if you prefer github https://github.com/IDPF/epubcheck/issues
16:41:39 <laurentlemeur> q-
16:41:43 <rkwright> laurent: This spreadsheet will migrate to github issues later?  Yes.
16:43:07 <tzviya> q+ to object
16:43:11 <rkwright> liisa: We have discussed ways of tagging images to indicate that low res images are intended to be low res (for whatever reason)
16:43:46 <rkwright> ... Third parties are coming up with proprietary solutions.  Is this a problem?
16:44:38 <rkwright> tzviya:  Yes.  Proprietary solutions are an anathema...  Further, there already is a image-details attribute in HTML.
16:45:11 <rkwright> liisa: So what we need to push a "best practices" to use this "details" attribute.
16:45:20 <ivan> q+
16:45:26 <ivan> ack tzviya
16:45:26 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to object
16:45:29 <liisamk> ack tzviya
16:46:16 <stevebre_> q+
16:46:17 <liisamk> ack ivan
16:46:22 <ivan> ack ivan
16:46:40 <rkwright> ivan: I think that in CSS there is a way to specify the resolution (relative?) of images?
16:46:58 <stevebre_> q- Dave responded
16:46:59 <tzviya> details https://www.w3.org/TR/html52/interactive-elements.html#the-details-element
16:47:31 <rkwright> dauwhe:  Not exactly.  Intended for indicating multiple images of different resolutions (see link)
16:47:37 <ivan> Topic: good short list of best practices
16:48:31 <rkwright> liisa:  How are we going to put together a best practices since there are so many?
16:49:02 <rkwright> tzviya:  Might be best to put together a mini-TF for this.
16:49:30 <rkwright> rachel:  Happy to participate.
16:49:35 <rkwright> rkwright: Ditto
16:51:07 <rkwright> liisa:  Hard part of this is most people do not have the breadth and depth to know all the pitfalls and ways around them
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16:54:17 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:54:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/04/10-pbg-minutes.html ivan
16:54:18 <ivan> zakim, bye
16:54:18 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
16:54:18 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
16:54:18 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been ivan, wolfgang, tzviya, Avneesh, George, Bill_Kasdorf, BillM, rkwright, liisamk, laurent, Rachel, dauwhe, laurentlemeur, Karen,
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16:54:21 <Zakim> ... pbelfanti, Garth