19:51:31 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dxwg
19:51:31 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2018/04/03-dxwg-irc
19:52:05 <kcoyle> rrsagent, make logs public
19:52:24 <kcoyle> chair: Karen Coyle
19:53:23 <kcoyle> zakim, who is here?
19:53:23 <Zakim> Present: kcoyle, PWinstanley, SimonCox, roba, alejandra, DaveBrowning, antoine, AndreaPerego, LarsG, PWinstanley_, RiccardoAlbertoni, annette_g, Ixchel
19:53:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, kcoyle, rhiaro, Zakim, hadleybeeman, trackbot
19:54:08 <kcoyle> regrets: PWinstanley, LarsG
19:57:10 <kcoyle> trackbot, start meeting
19:57:13 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:57:16 <trackbot> Meeting: Dataset Exchange Working Group Teleconference
19:57:16 <trackbot> Date: 03 April 2018
19:57:25 <kcoyle> zakim, who is here?
19:57:25 <Zakim> Present: kcoyle, PWinstanley, SimonCox, roba, alejandra, DaveBrowning, antoine, AndreaPerego, LarsG, PWinstanley_, RiccardoAlbertoni, annette_g, Ixchel
19:57:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, kcoyle, rhiaro, Zakim, hadleybeeman, trackbot
19:58:44 <roba> roba has joined #dxwg
20:00:21 <alejandra> alejandra has joined #dxwg
20:01:56 <DaveBrowning> DaveBrowning has joined #dxwg
20:02:03 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> Jaroslav_Pullmann has joined #dxwg
20:02:49 <SimonCox> SimonCox has joined #dxwg
20:03:19 <phila> phila has joined #dxwg
20:03:43 <alejandra> present+
20:03:57 <kcoyle> present+
20:03:58 <SimonCox> present+
20:04:02 <roba> present+
20:04:07 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> present+
20:04:15 <DaveBrowning> present+
20:04:35 <phila> present+
20:04:58 <alejandra> scribeNick: alejandra
20:05:21 <SimonCox> chair: kcoyle
20:05:39 <SimonCox> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2018.04.03
20:06:01 <alejandra> Topic: approval of last week minutes
20:06:14 <alejandra> kcoyle: reminder that starting today we will be meeting every two weeks
20:06:32 <alejandra> ... next meeting will be 17th April
20:06:44 <alejandra> ... any comments about last meeting minutes?
20:06:52 <alejandra> ... no comments, so approved
20:07:06 <kcoyle> RESOLVED: approve minutes of March 27
20:07:34 <alejandra> kcoyle: two big things to cover today
20:07:43 <Ixchel> Ixchel has joined #dxwg
20:07:52 <alejandra> ... where we are with the FPWD of DCAT
20:08:06 <alejandra> ... F2F meeting on 8-9 May in one of 3 locations
20:08:09 <kcoyle> https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/F2f3
20:08:22 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> q+
20:08:24 <alejandra> ... which location people prefer?
20:08:39 <alejandra> ... Frankfurt Deutsche Bibliotek
20:08:48 <alejandra> ... Zurich-Baar Thomson Reuters
20:08:56 <alejandra> ... or Genoa, CNR
20:09:04 <alejandra> ... please indicate your preference in that page
20:09:19 <alejandra> ... for people travelling, we need to know fairly soon
20:09:32 <alejandra> ... questions?
20:09:33 <kcoyle> ack Jaroslav_Pullmann
20:09:48 <alejandra> Jaroslav_Pullmann: further option of meeting close to Cologne
20:09:57 <alejandra> ... the logistics is a bit complicated
20:10:05 <alejandra> ... we are sitting a bit far from the city
20:10:14 <alejandra> ... so people may need to take taxis
20:10:16 <riccardoalbertoni> riccardoalbertoni has joined #dxwg
20:10:27 <alejandra> ... it is 10 km outside of Bonn
20:10:32 <riccardoalbertoni> present+
20:10:35 <alejandra> ... not immediately in the city
20:10:46 <alejandra> kcoyle: it is convenient if it is near a train station
20:10:54 <alejandra> Topic: DCAT FPWD
20:11:00 <AndreaPerego> AndreaPerego has joined #dxwg
20:11:10 <AndreaPerego> present+ AndreaPerego
20:11:10 <SimonCox> ED is here https://w3c.github.io/dxwg/dcat/
20:11:22 <alejandra> SimonCox: at the last DCAT meeting we agreed to move this forward to this plenary
20:11:33 <alejandra> ... and recommend to publish as FPWD
20:11:47 <alejandra> ... however, there has been a discussion in the last couple of days in terms of the version
20:11:56 <alejandra> ... the draft refers to DCAT 1.1.
20:12:11 <alejandra> ... latest public version has a URL that ends up with DCAT_1_1
20:12:16 <alejandra> ... which I made up
20:12:25 <alejandra> ... in collaboration with Alejandra as a placeholder
20:12:54 <alejandra> ... but it's been raised in the last few days that 1.1. might be a strong claim w.r.t. the changes we have
20:13:20 <alejandra> ... so I prepared a Pull Request (PR) revising the versions
20:13:49 <alejandra> ... when we mention the old DCAT version we refer to it as DCAT 2014
20:14:09 <alejandra> ... we don't want to prejudge
20:14:17 <roba> belated comment - the concept of profiles is sprinkled through the document, but i dont see the working definition we agreed on included anywhere.
20:14:26 <alejandra> ... this document as it stands has been approved by the DCAT team to be issued as FPWD
20:14:39 <alejandra> ... but there is this issue to resolve on how versions are referred
20:14:46 <AndreaPerego> The relevant GH issue: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/184
20:14:49 <phila> q+
20:14:54 <alejandra> ... with the suggestion to refer to the old one as DCAT 2014 and the new one as DCAT revised
20:14:59 <kcoyle> ack phila
20:15:17 <alejandra> phila: this is up to DaveR to decide
20:15:40 <alejandra> ... I've seen some of the discussion, so I guess it will come down to as the nature of the changes
20:15:50 <alejandra> ... you can provide an edited recommendation
20:15:56 <alejandra> ... where the name doesn't change at all
20:16:06 <alejandra> ... for that to be the case, it should be compatible
20:16:22 <alejandra> ... the answer is 'I don't know'
20:16:25 <alejandra> +q
20:16:32 <alejandra> ... how big the changes are?
20:16:42 <alejandra> SimonCox: it is unclear at the moment
20:17:06 <alejandra> ... members of the team are making it clear that we should be backward compatible
20:17:27 <alejandra> ... so that old DCAT rdf wouldn't be inconsisten with the revised one
20:17:38 <alejandra> ... however, we agreed to add some classes in last week minutes
20:18:07 <alejandra> ... how these classes are going to be linked it is not clear
20:18:12 <alejandra> phila: are you deprecating terms?
20:18:19 <alejandra> SimonCox: I don't think so
20:18:29 <alejandra> phila: then you could still could call it DCAT
20:18:59 <alejandra> ... HTML 5.2 is backward compatible with HTML 1.0
20:19:12 <roba> q+
20:19:35 <kcoyle> ack alejandra
20:19:51 <phila> alejandra: With the changes we've discussed, we might keep the name
20:20:17 <phila> ... there are things I ave in mind. For e.g. even it's name, focuses on the catalogue. I want to describe datasets not in a catalogue
20:20:42 <phila> ... I don't mind keeping the name, but even expanding the defn of Dataset to outside a catalogue...
20:20:44 <SimonCox> q+
20:20:48 <phila> ... Does the name restrict future changes?
20:20:49 <AndreaPerego> Just to note that DCAT does not require datasets being linked to a catalogue.
20:20:57 <kcoyle> q?
20:21:05 <phila> ... I agree that we should be backwards compatible if possible
20:21:17 <kcoyle> ack roba
20:21:36 <alejandra> roba: the catalogue perspective suggets a number of use cases that we want to support
20:21:46 <alejandra> ... there is no inconsistency at the moment
20:21:54 <alejandra> ... but we might have different profiles in the future
20:22:09 <alejandra> ... I don't find that the document provides a clear way of the profiling mechanism
20:22:20 <alejandra> ... my feeling is that we could provide more guidance on the implications
20:22:37 <kcoyle> ack SimonCox
20:22:46 <SimonCox> audio p[roblems
20:22:52 <kcoyle> we hear you
20:22:57 <SimonCox> Oh dear - wrong moment
20:23:20 <SimonCox> audio back
20:23:31 <SimonCox> q+
20:23:46 <alejandra> kcoyle: it sounds to me that Simon's solution will be fine
20:23:58 <roba> q+
20:24:04 <alejandra> SimonCox: we've been unsuccessful to engage with the profiles group for a number of weeks
20:24:06 <kcoyle> ack SimonCox
20:24:19 <alejandra> ... we've been pushing for the target release of the FPWD
20:24:30 <alejandra> ... I'm reluctant to delay the release
20:24:49 <alejandra> ... so readers of the FPWD will be aware that the intention is to add more material
20:24:59 <alejandra> ... but the document is pretty honest that more work is needed
20:25:28 <alejandra> ... you're jumping ahead assuming that there won't be a new version needed
20:25:38 <AndreaPerego> q+
20:25:42 <alejandra> ... I agree but I think it's best to wait until the dicussion happens
20:25:53 <kcoyle> ack roba
20:26:07 <alejandra> roba: a line about understanding about scopes
20:26:20 <alejandra> ... the profile group hasn't met due to logistic challenges
20:26:23 <phila> q+ to offer a get out of jail card https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/WD-odrl-vocab-20170223/
20:26:34 <alejandra> ... it doesn't have much to say about DCAT profiles
20:27:03 <alejandra> ... some work we did do is the description of profiles that could be used cross-subgroups
20:27:13 <SimonCox> This is what we have https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/wiki/Application-profiles
20:27:13 <alejandra> ... there is more to say that we can say
20:27:23 <kcoyle> ack AndreaPerego
20:27:25 <alejandra> ... I don't wish to hold up the release
20:27:46 <alejandra> AndreaPerego: for the time being (FPWD), the main issue is to decide what URI to use
20:28:05 <alejandra> ... we might not be able to come up today what version we name it to be
20:28:12 <alejandra> ... this can probably be decided later
20:28:23 <alejandra> ... we need to decide today about the URI for the TR
20:28:26 <SimonCox> Here is my proposal to 'lick the can down the road" - https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/pull/187/files
20:28:35 <SimonCox> s/lick/kick/
20:28:35 <alejandra> ... maybe DCAT-rev
20:28:52 <alejandra> kcoyle: we may need to get hold of DaveR for that
20:28:56 <kcoyle> ack phila
20:28:56 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to offer a get out of jail card https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/WD-odrl-vocab-20170223/
20:28:57 <phila> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-vocab-odrl-20160721/ FPWD of ODRL vocab
20:28:59 <alejandra> phila: yes, definitely
20:29:37 <alejandra> ... for some comfort, the FPWD we called it vocab-odrl and then the WG decided to change it to odrl-vocab
20:29:53 <AndreaPerego> +1 to phila. Sounds like a good idea.
20:30:04 <SimonCox> q+
20:30:07 <alejandra> yes, that's good to know that it can be changed later
20:30:25 <alejandra> kcoyle: I wonder if having the date in the TR is fine
20:30:33 <alejandra> phila: yes, that's for the permanent version
20:30:56 <alejandra> SimonCox: look at the PR
20:31:22 <alejandra> ... I believe that implements what we are talking about
20:31:31 <alejandra> kcoyle: I'm going to propose a vote
20:31:31 <AndreaPerego> The relevant PR: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/pull/187
20:32:21 <alejandra> SimonCox: we still have this issue that Roba raised
20:32:30 <alejandra> ... the discussion on profiles is insufficient
20:32:40 <SimonCox> https://w3c.github.io/dxwg/dcat/#profiles
20:32:47 <roba> i am happy yo propose an edit or raise an issue (add a pink box in motivation section?)
20:32:55 <alejandra> ... the document hasn't got many changes but just a list of points referring to the discussions we are having
20:33:28 <alejandra> ... I've been insisting to people that we need the content to the document
20:33:39 <alejandra> kcoyle: I'd suggest that it doesn't need to be done for the FPWD
20:33:49 <AndreaPerego> +1
20:33:52 <alejandra> ... in the upcoming F2F meeting we are going to look at profiles
20:33:58 <kcoyle> PROPOSED: Accept FPWD of DCAT, with "DCAT rev" as its designation for now
20:34:05 <alejandra> ... and we can look at the content for profiles
20:34:07 <SimonCox> The DCAT team already voted to released this content
20:34:39 <SimonCox> https://www.w3.org/2018/03/28-dxwgdcat-minutes#x03
20:34:54 <SimonCox> +1
20:34:56 <riccardoalbertoni> +1
20:34:56 <DaveBrowning> +1
20:35:00 <alejandra> +1
20:35:02 <AndreaPerego> +1
20:35:05 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> +1
20:35:33 <roba> +0 (i would add a single issue reference with the profile definition we have also agreed on)
20:35:44 <AndreaPerego> q+ to say that we consider phila's proposal as plan B - in case vocab-dcat-rev won't be accepted for any reason.
20:35:54 <Ixchel> +1
20:36:08 <kcoyle> ack SimonCox
20:36:08 <alejandra> +q
20:36:28 <alejandra> AndreaPerego: we can consider PhilA's proposal as plan B
20:36:34 <Makx> Makx has joined #dxwg
20:36:40 <alejandra> ... we can consider the option to use the version URL for the FPWD
20:36:46 <Makx> present+ Makx
20:37:06 <alejandra> phila: formally, short URLs are decided by the director
20:37:11 <kcoyle> ack AndreaPerego
20:37:11 <Zakim> AndreaPerego, you wanted to say that we consider phila's proposal as plan B - in case vocab-dcat-rev won't be accepted for any reason.
20:37:14 <kcoyle> ack alejandra
20:37:29 <phila> alejandra: I believe we still need to add a couple of changes like removing mentions of 1.1 that are still in the doc?
20:37:36 <phila> ... But we can sort that out later
20:37:40 <phila> SimonCox: I thought I'd done it
20:37:47 <AndreaPerego> So the long URL should be something like: FPWD-vcab-dcat-201804XX
20:37:59 <AndreaPerego> s/vcab-/vocab-/
20:37:59 <kcoyle> RESOLVED: Accept FPWD of DCAT, with "DCAT rev" as its designation for now
20:38:13 <alejandra> I would mention DCAT-rev whenever we refer to the new version
20:38:21 <kcoyle> ACTION: kcoyle - get DaveR involved
20:38:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-99 - - get daver involved [on Karen Coyle - due 2018-04-10].
20:38:31 <phila> PROPOSED: Thanks to the DCAT team
20:38:43 <AndreaPerego> +1 :)
20:38:45 <SimonCox> ... if you accept https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/pull/187 all 1.1 will go away including title
20:38:54 <alejandra> +1 (especially Simon!)
20:39:00 <riccardoalbertoni> +1
20:39:46 <kcoyle> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dxwg-comments/2018Mar/0003.html
20:39:48 <alejandra> Topic: UCR
20:40:13 <alejandra> kcoyle: we need to reply back to this comment on the UCR
20:40:24 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> q+
20:40:31 <kcoyle> ack Jaroslav_Pullmann
20:41:05 <alejandra> Jaroslav_Pullmann: we had a request to look at Øystein message
20:41:21 <alejandra> Ixchel: I looked at his most recent one and it is extremely detailed
20:41:31 <alejandra> ... I haven't been involved in the subgroup meetings
20:41:43 <alejandra> ... so it might be helpful to get an idea from them on how to respond
20:41:56 <alejandra> Jaroslav_Pullmann: we should look internally about the implications
20:42:08 <alejandra> ... and prepare a response/ action on how to incorporate in the DCAT spec
20:42:21 <alejandra> ... UCR editors could make a proposal for discussion with the DCAT group
20:42:36 <kcoyle> ACTION: Jaroslav_Pullmann and UCR editors to take this to DCAT group
20:42:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-100 - And ucr editors to take this to dcat group [on Jaroslav Pullmann - due 2018-04-10].
20:42:41 <alejandra> ... can we spend some time in tomorrow's DCAT meeting
20:42:47 <alejandra> SimonCox: let's add it to the agenda
20:43:23 <alejandra> kcoyle: there will be many things that might not be resolved immediately
20:43:40 <alejandra> ... can someone answer saying that we are looking at it in detail?
20:43:53 <SimonCox> q+
20:44:02 <alejandra> action: Ixchel to respond at Øystein indicating that we are looking at the comments
20:44:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-101 - Respond at Øystein indicating that we are looking at the comments [on Ixchel Faniel - due 2018-04-10].
20:44:09 <kcoyle> ack SimonCox
20:44:36 <alejandra> SimonCox: Jaroslav_Pullmann there are a number of threads in this email from Øystein that would be more than one topic in the agenda tomorrow
20:44:47 <alejandra> ... could you send me a suggestion on what to include in the agenda for tomorrow?
20:45:30 <alejandra> Jaroslav_Pullmann: next to Ixchel response we should say how we are dealing with the suggestions
20:45:32 <roba> Comments all seem to be about open issues not yet discussed in DCAT - but AFAICT will come down to profile mechanisms to choose common options around using additional properties - its all about finer grained description.
20:46:08 <alejandra> kcoyle: we will meet again in two weeks
20:46:14 <alejandra> ... any other discussion topics?
20:47:31 <alejandra> kcoyle: we'll go ahead and publish the DCAT FPWD
20:47:51 <alejandra> ... we can make a table to distribute the info about the publication
20:48:04 <alejandra> s/a table/ a table of contacts.
20:48:12 <alejandra> s/a table/ a table of contacts/
20:48:22 <alejandra> kcoyle: talk to you in two weeks!
20:48:23 <riccardoalbertoni> bye, good night/day !
20:48:24 <kcoyle> rrsagent, please create minutes v2
20:48:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/04/03-dxwg-minutes.html kcoyle
20:48:29 <alejandra> thanks, and bye!
20:48:31 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> present-
20:49:15 <kcoyle> AndreaPerego: you still here? zakim is acting weird
20:50:21 <AndreaPerego> present- annette_g
20:50:29 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
20:50:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/04/03-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
20:51:05 <AndreaPerego> present- antoine, LarsG
20:51:08 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
20:51:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/04/03-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
20:51:15 <kcoyle> present- PWinstanley, PWinstanley_
20:51:43 <kcoyle> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
20:51:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/04/03-dxwg-minutes.html kcoyle
21:21:56 <annette_g> annette_g has joined #dxwg