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20:47:19 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2018/01/31-dxwgdcat-irc
20:47:36 <SimonCox> rrsagent, make logs public
20:47:53 <SimonCox> present+
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20:51:41 <SimonCox> trackbot, associate this channel with #dxwg
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21:01:40 <PWinstanley> present+
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21:05:01 <SimonCox> scribe?
21:05:43 <DaveBrowning> present+
21:06:01 <NicholasCar> present+
21:06:12 <SimonCox> https://www.w3.org/2008/04/scribe.html
21:06:23 <Makx> Makx has joined #dxwgdcat
21:06:27 <alejandra> present+
21:06:28 <SimonCox> scribe: Stijn_Goedertier_AIV
21:07:09 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> TOPIC: meeting agenda
21:07:26 <Makx> present+ Makx
21:07:33 <RiccardoAlbertoni_> present+
21:07:51 <SimonCox> https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2018.01.31
21:08:23 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> SimonCox: wants to check if everyone is OK with the items on the agenda proposed by him
21:08:29 <alejandra> there was an addition from Andrea
21:08:48 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> SimonCox: silent approval on the agenda
21:08:54 <SimonCox>  https://www.w3.org/2018/01/24-dxwgdcat-minutes
21:09:08 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> TOPIC: 2. Approve minutes from last meeting
21:09:16 <RiccardoAlbertoni_> +1
21:09:19 <SimonCox> 0
21:09:21 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> 0
21:09:24 <alejandra> +q
21:09:34 <SimonCox> ack alejandra
21:09:40 <DaveBrowning> +1
21:09:58 <alejandra> +1 (after adding Simon regret's)
21:09:59 <SimonCox> ad  regrets from SImon to last week's minutes ...
21:10:05 <Makx> 0 (wasn't there)
21:10:11 <PWinstanley> s/ad/add/
21:10:11 <PWinstanley> +1
21:11:01 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> SimonCox: there was an implicit action on everyone regarding the revision of tags on the issues on GitHub
21:11:16 <PWinstanley> q+
21:11:30 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> SimonCox: I have revised the tags on a couple of issues
21:11:54 <NicholasCar> q+
21:12:02 <AndreaPerego> AndreaPerego has joined #dxwgdcat
21:12:12 <AndreaPerego> present+ AndreaPerego
21:12:32 <SimonCox> q?
21:12:36 <alejandra> q+
21:12:38 <SimonCox> ack PWinstanley
21:13:33 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> SimonCox: the tags on the issues were inherited from the use cases in the UCR document, not from the requirements. Hence, the need for revising them.
21:13:49 <SimonCox> ack NicholasCar
21:14:36 <SimonCox> ack alejandra
21:14:41 <arminhaller> arminhaller has joined #dxwgdcat
21:14:49 <arminhaller> present+
21:15:07 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> PWinstanley: the other sub-groups are looking at their own tags only
21:15:56 <PWinstanley> s/their own tags only/their tags too, and so we should harmonise at some point/
21:16:36 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> NickolasCar and alejandra: have changed some tags and made corresponding comments on the issues
21:16:40 <AndreaPerego> trackbot, associate this channel with #dxwg
21:17:09 <alejandra> +q to make a proposal about the labels
21:17:42 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> SimonCox: There is a risk of loosing traceability. At the same time, I am concerned about the processing getting too heavy.
21:17:50 <SimonCox> ack alejandra
21:17:50 <Zakim> alejandra, you wanted to make a proposal about the labels
21:19:04 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> Alejandra: I propose to never remove tags that correspond to the classifiation of the requirements, but tags inherited from the use cases could be removed.
21:19:18 <SimonCox> Proposed: ok to remove labels that were only inherited from UCs
21:19:28 <alejandra> and if someone has an objection, they can discuss on the issue
21:19:36 <SimonCox> q?
21:19:53 <SimonCox> +1
21:19:56 <DaveBrowning> +1
21:20:05 <alejandra> +1
21:20:06 <RiccardoAlbertoni_> +1
21:20:06 <AndreaPerego> +1
21:20:07 <PWinstanley> +1
21:20:12 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> +1
21:20:12 <Makx> +1
21:20:26 <arminhaller> +1
21:21:07 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> RESOLVED: ok to remove labels that were only inherited from UCs
21:21:55 <RiccardoAlbertoni_> yes
21:22:23 <PWinstanley> no progress yet
21:22:41 <RiccardoAlbertoni_> q+
21:22:42 <PWinstanley> ... for me
21:22:50 <DaveBrowning> Will get it done this week
21:22:50 <alejandra> +q
21:23:00 <SimonCox> ack RiccardoAlbertoni_
21:23:19 <arminhaller> had some issues around the process, there weren't any to remove, but maybe some to add, but now the process is clear
21:23:32 <RiccardoAlbertoni_> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Rd5bR3lem6gsurR70e6oduuQb8VoQY2-AoBeqHKn9Ls/edit#gid=0
21:23:41 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> SimonCox: In the previous meeting Arminhaller, AndreaPerego, PWinstanley, and RiccardoAlbertoni_ agreed to each look at a number of issues and review them.
21:24:06 <AndreaPerego> s/AndreaPerego, //
21:24:38 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> TOPIC: 4.2 Review DCAT requirements
21:25:38 <SimonCox> ack alejandra
21:25:39 <DaveBrowning> a/PWinstanley/PWinstanley, DaveBrowning, /
21:26:45 <alejandra> Idenfication: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/labels/identification
21:28:03 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> RiccardoAlbertoni_: will submit his proposals for relabelling via the GitHub issues
21:29:41 <DaveBrowning> q+
21:29:41 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> SimonCox: brings up the agenda point: Associate requirements with existing DCAT classes or properties, where possible
21:30:28 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> present+ JaroslavPullmann
21:30:43 <alejandra> s/Idenfication/Identification
21:30:52 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> Jaroslav_Pullmann has joined #dxwgdcat
21:31:17 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> JaroslavPullmann: proposes that the relevant dcat properties become tags in the GitHub issue tracker
21:31:20 <arminhaller> +1
21:31:22 <alejandra> +1
21:31:24 <RiccardoAlbertoni_> +1
21:31:24 <SimonCox> +1
21:31:26 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> present+
21:31:32 <PWinstanley> +1
21:31:33 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> +1
21:31:34 <DaveBrowning> +1
21:31:35 <AndreaPerego> q+
21:31:36 <arminhaller> s/properties/terms
21:31:38 <Makx> +1
21:31:59 <SimonCox> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/labels
21:32:14 <alejandra> I can do that
21:32:42 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> RESOLUTION: the relevant dcat terms will be used as tags in the GitHub issue tracker
21:32:42 <DaveBrowning> q?
21:32:53 <SimonCox> ack DaveBrowning
21:34:10 <SimonCox> q?
21:34:16 <SimonCox> ack AndreaPerego
21:35:37 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> DaveBrowning: Agrees that a tag for issues for which the related dcat term is unclear or inexistent can be invented later
21:36:01 <alejandra> +q
21:36:42 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> AndreaPerego: points out that it some cases, the resolution of an issue can be not to change the current DCAT vocabulary
21:38:30 <alejandra> q?
21:38:45 <SimonCox> ack alejandra
21:40:37 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> SimonCox: Refers to the use of requests related to issues on github
21:41:11 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> TOPIC: 4.1 Methodology for DCAT revision: principles
21:41:56 <alejandra> I created the labels for all the classes referenced in the DCAT vocabulary (https://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-dcat/): https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/labels
21:42:52 <alejandra> foaf:Person and foaf:Organization
21:43:46 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> SimonCox: The original design principles about how to construct the DCAT vocabulary, included strong dependencies with DC-TERMS and less strong on SKOS, and weaker on FOAF. No other vocubularies.
21:44:46 <alejandra> just adding to the minutes what I said before: last week I shared my screen and we went through Github looking at the issues, labels, Pull Request and review process
21:45:01 <alejandra> we agreed that the Pull Request needs further discussion
21:45:16 <NicholasCar> q+
21:45:18 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> SimonCox: There is no relationship with PROV in the current DCAT, now there is an opportunity (or risk) to satisfy some of the requirements with a more formal alignment with PROV.
21:45:40 <SimonCox> q?
21:45:42 <AndreaPerego> q+
21:45:44 <SimonCox> ack NicholasCar
21:47:09 <PWinstanley> +1 to Nic's endurant/perdurant comment
21:47:14 <SimonCox> ack AndreaPerego
21:47:33 <arminhaller> +1 that we need the explicit distinction of entities and activities in dcat
21:47:34 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> NicholasCar: From his experience this would not cause problems. It may be needed to state explicitly that a dcat:Dataset is not a temporal thing.
21:47:35 <alejandra> +1 to the comment and there are requirements related to the temporal aspects
21:48:08 <SimonCox> also see discussion here: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/pull/94
21:48:33 <SimonCox> q?
21:48:51 <SimonCox> AndreaPerego: what does QB do relating to DCAT/PROV ?
21:49:14 <NicholasCar> q+
21:49:25 <SimonCox> q?
21:49:35 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> AndreaPerego: He is unsure to explicitly include subclassing in DCAT. We could followg the approach taken in RDF-DataCube, where no sub-classing of prov:Entity is needed.
21:50:41 <SimonCox> ack NicholasCar
21:50:41 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> AndreaPerego: One of the successes of DCAT is that its semantics were loose. Not binding dcat with strong axioms makes it more broadly usable.
21:51:14 <SimonCox> q+
21:52:31 <RiccardoAlbertoni_> q+
21:52:32 <SimonCox> q?
21:52:36 <alejandra> +1
21:52:42 <SimonCox> ack SimonCox
21:52:59 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> NicholasCar: Reasoning is not being used much (e.g. domain/range inference). Nonetheless it is still useful behind the scene. Also the way PROV works can be beneficial to DCAT.
21:54:11 <arminhaller> q+
21:54:23 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> SimonCox: I hear both sides: not tying things down on the other hand sub-classing from prov:Entity might even not be noticed by people not caring about inference.
21:54:24 <RiccardoAlbertoni_> q-
21:54:42 <AndreaPerego> q+
21:54:46 <SimonCox> q?
21:54:52 <SimonCox> ack arm
21:54:55 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> SimonCox: Nonetheless, there already are domain and range restrictions in DCAT (e.g. via DC-TERMS); so the current DCAT is not entirely innocent in this regard.
21:54:55 <SimonCox> ack arminhaller
21:55:47 <SimonCox> ack AndreaPerego
21:55:57 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> ArminHaller: sub-classing is actually easier to handle than domain/range or inverse properties
21:56:22 <arminhaller> s/or inverse properties/
21:56:44 <arminhaller> s/sub-classing/sub-classing and inverse properties
21:57:01 <SimonCox> q?
21:57:34 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> AndreaPerego: I agree there already are domain/range restrictions. And we already have problems with it. For example, dcat:contactPoint is linked to vCard:Kind, which cannot be linked directly to an organisation.
21:57:59 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> AndreaPerego: rather than using OWL, we could use other means such as SHACL
21:58:46 <AndreaPerego> q+ to ask if we can briefly discuss this comment of mine: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/76#issuecomment-359124922
21:58:46 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> SimonCox: happy to have had some time to open this discussion
21:59:06 <NicholasCar> Use of SHACL would introduce further commitment, not just to an ontology but to an ontology+system
22:00:02 <AndreaPerego> Agreed. But this might be required to ensure a consistent use of PROV and facilitate interoperability.
22:00:29 <SimonCox> ack AndreaPerego
22:00:29 <Zakim> AndreaPerego, you wanted to ask if we can briefly discuss this comment of mine: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/76#issuecomment-359124922
22:00:45 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> SimonCox: invites everyone to go through the issues on GitHub in the coming week
22:01:47 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> AndreaPerego: brings up the point on relaxing the range restriction on dcat:contactPoint
22:02:09 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> SimonCox: suggests AndreaPerego to create a pull request for this
22:03:03 <RiccardoAlbertoni_> thanks, bye
22:03:06 <AndreaPerego> Bye!
22:03:11 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> bye
22:03:13 <alejandra> I suggested to split the issue into more granular issues
22:03:16 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> present-
22:03:32 <alejandra> I'm referring to the issue: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/76
22:03:36 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> rrsagent, generate minutes
22:03:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/01/31-dxwgdcat-minutes.html Stijn_Goedertier_AIV
22:03:36 <SimonCox> rrsagent, draft minutes
22:03:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/01/31-dxwgdcat-minutes.html SimonCox
22:03:47 <alejandra> there could be a more specific issue for the agent roles
22:03:53 <AndreaPerego> Agreed, alejandra.
22:04:07 <alejandra> thanks - wanted to make sure it is in the minutes
22:04:20 <alejandra> rrsagent, draft minutes
22:04:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/01/31-dxwgdcat-minutes.html alejandra
22:05:02 <AndreaPerego> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2018.01.31
22:05:17 <AndreaPerego> meeting: DXWG DCAT subgroup teleconference
22:05:31 <AndreaPerego> chair: SimonCox
22:06:04 <SimonCox> rrsagent, draft minutes
22:06:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/01/31-dxwgdcat-minutes.html SimonCox
22:07:35 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
22:07:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/01/31-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego