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16:54:22 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
16:54:22 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Business Group Telco
16:54:22 <ivan> Chair: liisa
16:54:22 <ivan> Date: 2018-01-30
16:54:22 <ivan> Regrets+ jkamata
16:54:22 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2018Jan/0032.html
16:54:22 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2018-01-30: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2018Jan/0032.html
16:56:10 <Avneesh> Avneesh has joined #pbg
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16:58:20 <George> present+ George
16:58:44 <laudrain> present+ Luc
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16:59:12 <wolfgang> present+ wolfgang
16:59:43 <Avneesh> present+
17:00:01 <mateus> mateus has joined #pbg
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17:00:12 <mateus> present+
17:00:53 <rachel_> present+
17:01:18 <tzviya> present+
17:01:36 <dauwhe> present+ dauwhe
17:02:01 <ivan> present+
17:02:05 <rkwright> One can only have one GTM running at a time.  Laurent was using EDRLab's license for a planning meeting.
17:02:11 <rkwright> present+
17:02:29 <Karen> present+ Karen
17:03:07 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #pbg
17:03:10 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
17:03:20 <ivan> present+ Garth
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17:03:30 <garth> present+ Garth
17:03:34 <liisamk_> present+
17:04:32 <Karen> scribenick: Karen
17:04:41 <rkwright> I was about to volunteer but took to long... :-)
17:04:46 <Karen> Liisa: let's get started
17:04:49 <rkwright> Next time...
17:04:52 <Karen> ...by talking about the new business group task forces
17:05:00 <Karen> ...Link here
17:05:06 <liisamk_> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jpw0KA9StAnWZAaIMqnITmdSOchIZeQIvphX5AmAulg/edit
17:05:26 <Karen> ...it was suggested last week that we edit this document to put these TFs in a different order
17:05:35 <Karen> ...order by what we are going to do; how we are going to do it
17:05:45 <Karen> ...we made space in this document for members to start signing up
17:05:56 <Karen> ...our suggestion that we continue to have people email the entire BG with the TF work
17:06:02 <Karen> ...but actually use the email tag on these emails
17:06:08 <Karen> ...how do people feel about that?
17:06:13 <wolfgang> q+
17:06:14 <Karen> q+
17:06:19 <Karen> ack Wolfgang
17:06:27 <Karen> Wolfgang: sounds good to have these emails
17:06:34 <Karen> ...to all of us so we are informed what is going on
17:06:36 <rachel_> +1 to the email plan
17:06:40 <Karen> ...and to quickly fill out what is interesting to us
17:06:49 <Karen> ack Karen
17:06:57 <wolfgang> s/fill/filter/
17:07:03 <Karen> Cristina: we can volunteer and put our name in the list?
17:07:09 <Karen> Liisa: yes, please; put your name on the list
17:07:20 <cristina> cristina has joined #pbg
17:07:32 <cristina> present+
17:08:38 <Karen> Karen: you may also want to consider a conference call or short webinar about onboarding folks into what BG and the task forces are doing and how to particpate/engage
17:08:56 <Karen> Liisa: thanks for that feedback; I'll take that back to the co-chairs
17:09:05 <Karen> ...please put your last names in; will do that with the group leads as well
17:09:25 <Karen> ...Let's talk about proposal for the new PBG Steering Committee
17:09:45 <Karen> ...we talked about the PBG SC becoming an oversight body for the various groups
17:09:51 <Karen> ...some of these may not be long-lived
17:10:00 <Karen> ...or others working on the work somewhere else, or within W3C generally
17:10:07 <BillM> q+
17:10:08 <Karen> ...did not want people to feel that they had to join the SC
17:10:18 <Karen> ...proposal was on the invite you received for this meeting
17:10:27 <Karen> ...has everyone had a chance to review this?
17:10:39 <Karen> ...is this an acceptable process and good to get people off the ground?
17:10:42 <Karen> ack BillM
17:10:51 <Karen> BillM: may I offer a procedural comment?
17:10:59 <Karen> ...We are not proposing to change the charter of the BG
17:11:10 <Karen> ...even though we are changing the SC to be a slate this group elects
17:11:18 <Karen> ...we want to leave charter as is; this is part experiment
17:11:39 <Karen> ...and part of IDPF and W3C agreement and in the TPI period to keep things within that
17:11:47 <Karen> ...it's electing a SC but co-chairs have put forth a slate
17:11:56 <Karen> ...but it does not rule out someone else who wants to run
17:12:11 <Karen> ...maybe next we change the committee so that the SC becomes a coordination group and not elected
17:12:15 <Karen> ...but we are not proposing that right now
17:12:22 <Karen> ...wanted to cover and make it clear it's an election
17:12:28 <Karen> ...because we are not changing the charter
17:12:33 <Karen> Liisa: thank you, Bill
17:12:39 <Karen> ...no one is on the queue; any thoughts here?
17:12:39 <Brian> Brian has joined #pbg
17:12:44 <Karen> BillK: I can move to elect the slate
17:12:51 <Karen> Liisa: anyone want to second that?
17:13:02 <Karen> Garth: BillK made the motion and I am happy to second
17:13:14 <Karen> BillM: I think that people on the slate should not make the motions
17:13:19 <tzviya> q+
17:13:29 <Karen> Liisa: Anyone not on the slate want to make a motion?
17:13:32 <dauwhe> q+
17:13:33 <laudrain> ack Tzviya
17:13:34 <Karen> Tzviya: I'm on the slate
17:13:53 <Karen> ...not to be pickey; but I think that votes are a call for consensus at W3C
17:13:58 <Karen> ...that's how things work
17:14:05 <Karen> Garth: is that required for BG
17:14:07 <Karen> q+
17:14:09 <BillM> q+
17:14:14 <laudrain> ack dau
17:14:17 <Karen> ack Karen
17:15:07 <laudrain> ack BillM
17:15:17 <Karen> Karen: this is different from usual W3C process
17:15:23 <Karen> ...I defer to Bill
17:15:33 <Karen> BillM: I checked about this
17:15:48 <Avneesh> q+
17:15:54 <Karen> ...we can do irc to accept the whole slate
17:16:04 <Karen> ...or if co-chairs want to extend this beyond this meeting by email
17:16:10 <Karen> ...and you have 72 hours
17:16:11 <Avneesh> q-
17:16:13 <Karen> ...to respond
17:16:18 <dauwhe> q+
17:16:28 <Karen> ...and ask for +1's and 0's but not really counting
17:16:35 <Karen> ..BG can hold the election any way it wants to
17:16:35 <Avneesh> election should not be confined to only this call
17:16:37 <laudrain> ack dau
17:16:39 <Karen> ack dauwhe
17:16:50 <Karen> Dave: I would strongly encourage us not to decide this during the meeting
17:17:01 <Karen> ...if someone who was busy today, they should have their say
17:17:06 <laudrain> +1
17:17:10 <tzviya> +1 to dauwhe
17:17:14 <Karen> ...I don't want to disenfranchise the Far East due to time of day
17:17:15 <BillM> +1 to Dave's proposal for 72h email call for consensus on slate as our election process
17:17:18 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to dauwhe
17:17:19 <mateus> +1
17:17:23 <ivan> +1
17:17:23 <George> Agree with Dave
17:17:28 <Karen> Liisa: so proposal is to put this slate out via email today
17:17:29 <wolfgang> +1 to Dave's proposal
17:17:34 <Karen> ...give people 72 hours to put slate out
17:17:37 <Dan_Sanicola> Dan_Sanicola has joined #pbg
17:17:43 <Karen> ...and respond with a +1 or -1 to the slate
17:17:44 <Dan_Sanicola> present+
17:17:51 <Karen> BillM: or 0
17:17:54 <Karen> Liisa: true
17:18:15 <Karen> ...to respond as they see fit to gather consensus
17:18:24 <Karen> Liisa: Ivan!
17:18:26 <ivan> +1
17:18:27 <laudrain> +1
17:18:30 <tzviya> +1
17:18:33 <wolfgang> +1
17:18:33 <mateus> +1
17:18:33 <Karen> ...everyone agreed to move forward in that manner
17:18:38 <Karen> ...that is what we will do
17:18:50 <Karen> ...Bill, do you want to talk about announcement about Digital Publishing Summit Europe
17:19:01 <Karen> BillM: is Laurent on the call? Prefer he does it
17:19:06 <Karen> ...I failed to coordinate
17:19:07 <BillM> https://www.edrlab.org/dpub-summit-2018/
17:19:19 <Karen> ...Here is the link to an event that has just been posted for registration that W3C is supporting
17:19:25 <Karen> ...May 16-17 in Berlin
17:19:30 <Karen> ...just after the AC meeting in Berlin
17:19:52 <Karen> ...W3C has two annual meetings, TPAC in Fall and AC meeting, including TPI representatives, in the spring
17:19:57 <Karen> ...includes BG members here
17:20:10 <Karen> ...EDRLab is organizing a follow-on to last year's Summit this spring
17:20:13 <Karen> ...you can buy a ticket now
17:20:18 <Karen> ...you can inquire if you want to sponsor
17:20:26 <Karen> ...W3C will have an active role with sessions and speakers
17:20:33 <Karen> ...Ivan, you have been involved in program development
17:20:38 <Karen> Ivan: Not too much more to add
17:20:51 <Karen> ...we just had a telco and hour ago with Bill, Cristina and I and Laurent
17:20:57 <Karen> BillM: the other Bill
17:20:58 <Karen> Ivan: yes
17:21:08 <Karen> ...there is a session that we do plan which would have direct W3C
17:21:20 <Karen> ...in the sense of talking about what we do in Publishing@W3C
17:21:36 <Karen> ...still talking about if we present the specific work or the activity as a whole
17:21:44 <Karen> ...I think the latter will prevail
17:21:47 <Karen> ...session is 90 minutes
17:21:56 <Karen> ...we are also considering session from the archival community
17:22:02 <Karen> ...and a separate presentation on scholarly publishing
17:22:14 <Karen> ...the rest is still shaping up; still too early to go public with the program
17:22:22 <Karen> ...you should all be there!
17:22:28 <Karen> BillM: I encourage everyone to sign up
17:22:42 <Karen> ...you can suggest yourself or others as speaker and help to shape the program
17:22:49 <Karen> Topic: EPUB Check Funding
17:23:00 <Karen> Liisa: We want to talk about funding approach for EPUB Check
17:23:07 <Karen> ...Tzviya, can you say more about this?
17:23:24 <Karen> Tzviya: Sure. You probably heard me talk about lack of developers working on EPUB Check
17:23:29 <Karen> ...there have been some volunteers
17:23:38 <Karen> ...Tobias @ and Roman
17:23:47 <Karen> ...Roman working more on accessibility checking tool
17:23:49 <Karen> ...yeah
17:23:54 <Karen> ...but we are out of developers
17:23:57 <wolfgang> s/Roman/Romain/
17:24:09 <Karen> ...We've been thinking about how to engage more developers
17:24:13 <Karen> ...not a lot of people out there
17:24:29 <Karen> ...even if we found that, we need someone who could act as technical leader, like the CTO of EPUB Check
17:24:29 <wolfgang> s/Tobias @/Tobias Fischer/
17:24:32 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
17:24:33 <Karen> ...and we would need to pay
17:24:39 <Karen> ...and we are now looking for funds
17:24:46 <Karen> ...and we would look at spec and overall the site
17:24:59 <Karen> ...and it's a challenging process of under documented code
17:25:02 <Karen> ack BillK
17:25:16 <Karen> BillK: we are talking about an immediate but limited engagement for this CTO
17:25:29 <Karen> ...or are we envisioning that this person continues to be in charge of the development of EPUB Check
17:25:38 <Karen> ...is it a one-time activity or an on-going need?
17:25:47 <Karen> Tzviya: not a one-time, it's a short-term commitment
17:25:56 <Karen> ...and we would need to figure out how long that commitment would be
17:26:24 <Karen> ...Liisa suggested we talk about raising funds for the initial development to support EPUB Check; and then a second phase longer commitment to support code
17:26:32 <Karen> Liisa: Co-chairs of three groups met Friday
17:26:35 <Karen> ...there is immediate need
17:26:40 <Karen> ...once we have EPUB Roadmap
17:26:45 <Karen> ...need to determine current version
17:26:56 <Karen> ...and then we need to have EPUB Check work with that version
17:27:05 <Karen> ...then there is the longer-term need to rethink how the tools work
17:27:11 <Karen> ...and make it easier to maintain the tools over time
17:27:20 <Karen> ...the cost approximately is about $50K for the first phase
17:27:22 <George> q+
17:27:28 <Karen> ...and possibly $100-150K for the whole thing
17:27:31 <Karen> ...those are very rough numbers
17:27:39 <Karen> ...back of the envelope math that Bill gave us on Friday
17:27:40 <BillM> q+
17:27:53 <Karen> ...if we are asking for money, let's give people some idea of what we need to raise
17:27:55 <Karen> ack BillK
17:28:02 <Karen> BillK: no
17:28:03 <tzviya> ack Bill_Kasdorf
17:28:05 <Karen> ack George
17:28:18 <Karen> George: I think this community needs to oversee that development
17:28:26 <Karen> ...people, organizations who committed long-term in the game
17:28:31 <Karen> ...Romain is great and understands the need
17:28:43 <Karen> ...if we could have a couple like him oversee the activity like him
17:28:54 <Karen> ...and bring in a nose-down coder to work under his/their guidance
17:29:14 <Karen> ...so once that nose-down coder goes away, we still have people who have enough knowledge of system to keep it moving forever
17:29:15 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to George
17:29:19 <Karen> Liisa: Bill McCoy
17:29:24 <Karen> ack BillM:
17:29:29 <Karen> BillM: I agree with Geroge
17:29:49 <wolfgang> s/Geroge/George/
17:29:57 <Karen> ...in the past, there was a rotating group of organizations that supported the development and management of EPUB Checker
17:29:58 <tzviya> q+
17:30:03 <Karen> [Bill names the companies]
17:30:11 <Karen> ...four different custodians of EPUB Check along the years
17:30:19 <Karen> ...would be ideal if we solve this for the oversight and funding
17:30:27 <Karen> ...if we de-couple these which we did not do before
17:30:30 <tzviya> ack BillM
17:30:30 <laudrain> ack BillM
17:30:42 <Karen> ...and TF in BG helps to provide the oversight and guidance
17:30:45 <dauwhe> q+
17:30:49 <Karen> ...Don't worry about who is collecting the funds
17:30:57 <laudrain> q+
17:31:04 <Karen> ...whether W3C, or Readium, or DAISY, we will work that out
17:31:10 <Karen> ...we are concerned with finding the funds
17:31:16 <Karen> ...and then we can figure out how to take the money
17:31:20 <Karen> ack Tzviya
17:31:27 <Karen> Tzviya: I agree with what Bill just said
17:31:47 <Karen> ...managing a project this size, a revolving door of project managers and coders causes problems
17:31:55 <Karen> ...we really need someone who can make decisions
17:32:05 <Karen> ack dauwhe
17:32:11 <Karen> Dave: the community depends upon EPUB Check
17:32:28 <Karen> ...very large companies...some have very large amounts [names dollars] in the bank
17:32:39 <Karen> ...those are the organizations that should be funding this, so how do we make that happen?
17:32:42 <Karen> ack Luc
17:32:48 <Karen> Luc: Just following Dave
17:33:02 <Karen> ...I have ask explicitly to Microsoft for funding EPUB Check
17:33:06 <Avneesh> q-
17:33:08 <Karen> ...I met them in San Francisco
17:33:16 <Karen> ack laudrain
17:33:25 <rachel_> q+
17:33:30 <Karen> ...I explained first thing they consider is to look after EPUB Check needs and resources
17:33:34 <Karen> ...I have not gotten any answer yet
17:33:38 <Brian> Brian has joined #pbg
17:33:42 <Karen> ack Rachel
17:34:03 <Karen> Rachel: It would be easier to approach team if they could contribute funds if I had a proposal to give to them
17:34:16 <Karen> ...lays out what we plan to do, why we are asking
17:34:21 <Karen> ...does something like that exist?
17:34:24 <Karen> Liisa: not yet
17:34:29 <Karen> ...anyone else feel that would be helpful?
17:34:30 <tzviya> +1 to rachel's suggestion
17:34:34 <Karen> Dave: absolutely
17:34:35 <Karen> +1
17:34:36 <BillM> q+
17:34:41 <Brian> +1
17:34:43 <Karen> ...we need some kind of prospectus to say way
17:34:46 <wolfgang> +1
17:34:54 <Karen> ...and what type of sponsorship credit for doing so
17:34:57 <Karen> ack BIllM
17:35:14 <Karen> BillM: when Readium was developing DRM, we went around to stakeholders for interest
17:35:15 <Karen> q+
17:35:32 <Karen> ...and we essentially told them we will invoice you and earmark funds for developing the spec
17:35:38 <Karen> ...and give you a seat at the table
17:35:44 <Karen> ...that SC did not turn out to be very effective
17:35:48 <Karen> ...worked pretty well
17:35:55 <Karen> ...got 8-10 companies sufficient to fund
17:36:00 <Karen> ...a pattern we used at Readium Foundation
17:36:13 <Karen> ...could be used here; supports what Tviya is saying
17:36:18 <Karen> ...a minimum of X dollars
17:37:09 <dauwhe> scribnick: dauwhe
17:37:25 <dauwhe> liisamk_: do we have data on who uses epubcheck?
17:37:34 <rachel_> scribnick: rachel_
17:37:56 <rachel_> liisamk_: Is there anyway to know how many people have downloaded it or how often it's used?
17:37:57 <rkwright> q+
17:38:19 <Karen> https://www.w3.org/International/sponsorship/
17:38:22 <laudrain> q+
17:38:25 <Karen> ack Karen
17:38:31 <rachel_> tzviya: it might be possible to know who's using the website but we should ask Romain if there are any other analytics availabel
17:38:32 <Karen> scribenick: Karen
17:38:46 <Karen> Liisa; If we start a Google doc, could we make a list of people who might be willing to contribute
17:39:13 <liisamk__> liisamk__ has joined #pbg
17:39:25 <tzviya> q?
17:39:29 <Karen> Karen: I just dropped in i18n sponsor program; BillM, you may want to talk with Alan Bird. Could be a prototype
17:39:32 <tzviya> ack rkwright
17:39:52 <Karen> rkwright: no real tracking of EPUB Checker
17:40:00 <Karen> ...would have to be planned along with management tracks
17:40:11 <Karen> ...and depends if people want to be tracked or avoid being tracked
17:40:15 <Karen> ack laudrain
17:40:24 <Karen> Luc: I think it would be good to have a Google doc where we can declare
17:40:29 <Karen> ...where we can track the issues
17:40:36 <Karen> ...for users, distributors using EPUB
17:40:49 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
17:40:53 <Karen> ...as publishers I have to say we never send any EPUB that was not checked by EPUB Check, starting in 2009
17:40:55 <Karen> ...we still do it now
17:41:09 <Karen> ...any EPUB we receive from our suppliers or production dept. is checked through EPUB Check
17:41:21 <Karen> ...we have used EPUB Check in all its versions as soon as new versions were available
17:41:24 <Karen> ...that is the use we have
17:41:31 <Karen> ...several ten thousand
17:41:47 <Karen> ...more than 50K EPUBs for our group that we are distributing
17:41:51 <Karen> ...that's an idea of the size
17:41:56 <Karen> Liisa: BillK
17:41:59 <Karen> ack BillK
17:42:06 <Karen> ack Bill_Kasdorf
17:42:20 <Karen> BillK: many publishers won't proceed without running EPUB
17:42:34 <tzviya> s/publishers/aggregators
17:42:38 <Juli_Calderazi> I totally agree with Bill K.
17:42:40 <Karen> ...Ingram, GooglePlay, could give aggregate numbers that cross multiple publishers
17:42:54 <Karen> Liisa: I think first step is effort to collect names of people we know
17:42:55 <wolfgang> s/EPUB/EPUB Check/
17:43:03 <Karen> BillK: people who are receiving EPUBs
17:43:20 <Karen> ...we receive x million per year that have EPUB Check, from hundreds of thousands of publishers
17:43:25 <Karen> ...rather than a few publishers who use it
17:43:28 <dauwhe> https://validator.w3.org
17:43:30 <Karen> ...don't disagree that that is ok
17:43:38 <Karen> ...but people receiving EPUB is the place to look
17:43:44 <Karen> Liisa: I agree; make lists of everybody
17:43:51 <Karen> ...retailers, distributors, publishres
17:44:00 <Karen> ... helps to prioritize where we go
17:44:06 <Karen> ...anything else to say on the EPUB Check funding?
17:44:10 <tzviya> q+
17:44:13 <Karen> ...before moving on to frequency and timing of meetings
17:44:20 <Karen> Cristina: I was thinking about the people
17:44:22 <Bill_Kasdorf> s/hundreds of thousands/hundreds or thousands
17:44:25 <Karen> ...more than the funding
17:44:32 <Karen> ...Brunelli
17:44:34 <Brian> q?
17:44:39 <Karen> ...has possible knowledge, no idea if he has interest
17:44:55 <Karen> ...I could pass along his info to Tzviya if you think that would be useful
17:44:56 <Brian> q+
17:45:01 <Karen> ack Tzviya
17:45:08 <Karen> Tzviya: Rachel's idea is good
17:45:11 <Bill_Kasdorf> To clarify, I was suggesting getting those large aggregate numbers not to recruit specific sponsors but to make the case in the sponsorship document for how important it is.
17:45:11 <Karen> ...for a prospectus
17:45:15 <Karen> ...is it too soon?
17:45:25 <Karen> Liisa: good idea, but should also be linked to the roadmap
17:45:35 <Karen> Tzviya: ok, I'm happy to help with that when we are ready
17:45:38 <Karen> ack Brian
17:45:50 <Karen> Brian: I was going to suggest with respect to list you want to compile
17:45:58 <Karen> ...we are doing an effort on ONYX 3
17:46:04 <dauwhe> q+
17:46:12 <wolfgang> s/ONYX/ONIX/
17:46:13 <Karen> ...we have created a map of users; I can share that list if you think it would be of value
17:46:24 <Karen> ack dauwhe
17:46:37 <Karen> Dave: why doesn't W3C take over EPUB Check the way it does the validator
17:46:42 <Karen> BillM: I can respond
17:46:45 <Karen> ...that is not out of the question
17:46:56 <Karen> ...but at the moment there is a chicken and the egg problem
17:47:03 <Cristina> Cristina has joined #pbg
17:47:05 <Karen> ...the TPI and full member numbers are lower
17:47:13 <Karen> ...so there is a lack of funding
17:47:25 <Karen> ...before DAISY did the heavy lifting, thank you, George
17:47:33 <Karen> ...the HTML validator was provided by donated development
17:47:44 <Karen> ...the checker uses the HTML5 validator; a more complicated problem
17:47:56 <Karen> ...not completely out of question, but we would need kick-start funding
17:48:07 <Karen> ...and maybe split the baby to have W3C actively manage it
17:48:13 <Karen> ...but W3C does not have the funds
17:48:24 <Karen> Dave: or have someone sponsor someone as a W3C Fellow
17:48:30 <ivan> +1 to what BillM said: W3C could manage it but not develop it...
17:48:32 <Karen> BillM: yes, that is in scope
17:48:46 <Karen> ...there is a W3C program for Fellow; requires 50% of someone's time
17:49:02 <Karen> ...W3C is not averse to doing projects in the ecosystem it is serving and that falls into this bucket
17:49:05 <Karen> ...that is another option
17:49:38 <Karen> Liisa: there is question of time frame for this call
17:49:45 <Karen> ...how do people feel about this?
17:49:48 <garth> q+
17:49:49 <wolfgang> +1
17:49:50 <tzviya> +1
17:49:51 <Karen> ...continue bi-weekly on this time slot?
17:49:54 <rkwright> +1
17:49:58 <mateus> +1
17:50:04 <Karen> George: is this the whole Publishing BG or the Steering Committee?
17:50:09 <rachel_> +1 on PBG time slot
17:50:15 <Karen> Liisa: this is the Publishing BG time slot
17:50:16 <Karen> ack Garth
17:50:24 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 on biweekly meeting
17:50:24 <Karen> Garth: as a standing meeting, that makes sense
17:50:31 <Karen> ...but we should have an agenda out beforehand
17:50:39 <Karen> ...and if it's empty day beforehand, we cancel
17:50:41 <tzviya> +1 Garth
17:50:42 <Karen> q+
17:50:42 <mateus> +1 to garth
17:50:59 <Karen> ack Karen
17:51:01 <dauwhe> karen: this doesn't work for asia and australia
17:51:02 <dauwhe> q+
17:51:13 <dauwhe> ... unless there are task forces
17:51:24 <Karen> Karen: this time is a barrier for Asia
17:51:32 <Karen> ack dauwhe
17:51:37 <Karen> Dave: CSS has this problem
17:51:48 <Karen> ...first call is done at Australia friendly time
17:51:52 <Karen> ...and that has worked fairly well
17:51:58 <Karen> ...it gives everyone to get in
17:52:06 <Karen> ...and we adjust agendas based on who is likely to be on the call
17:52:11 <rkwright> EPUB WG used to do this as well
17:52:21 <rachel_> +1
17:52:23 <rkwright> +1
17:52:24 <mateus> +1
17:52:24 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1
17:52:25 <garth> +1
17:52:26 <wolfgang> -1
17:52:26 <ivan> +1, let us try it
17:52:27 <dauwhe> +1
17:52:28 <Brian> +1
17:52:28 <Karen> Liisa: how do people feel about first call of month is at noon ET and second call of month is 7:00pm ET
17:52:33 <Karen> ...can people +1 in irc
17:52:37 <George> +1
17:52:43 <Karen> Luc: that is very late for Europe
17:52:45 <BillM> maybe we should ask feedback from all members in email, not just those who were here at this time today (ipso facto those for whom this time was bad aren't likely to be on this call)
17:52:53 <Karen> Liisa: so why don't we try that
17:53:00 <Karen> ...and we will get invites updated
17:53:19 <Karen> ...Ivan and Luc get a vacation; we'll try to schedule the agendas accordingly
17:53:24 <Karen> ...anybody have anything else for today?
17:53:30 <Brian> good meeting
17:53:37 <Karen> ...ok, giving you back 7 minutes of your day
17:53:43 <Karen> ...thank you everyone for participating
17:53:58 <Juli_Calderazi> ok!
17:53:59 <Karen> ...we will get the SC slate out by email
17:53:59 <rkwright> bye!
17:54:15 <Karen> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:54:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/01/30-pbg-minutes.html Karen
17:54:21 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:54:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/01/30-pbg-minutes.html ivan