15:12:27 RRSAgent has joined #tt 15:12:27 logging to https://www.w3.org/2018/01/25-tt-irc 15:12:29 RRSAgent, make logs public 15:12:29 Zakim has joined #tt 15:12:31 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 15:12:31 Date: 25 January 2018 15:12:37 Present: Pierre, Nigel 15:12:40 Chair: Nigel 15:12:44 scribe: nigel 15:12:48 Regrets: Cyril 15:12:53 Present+ Andreas 15:12:58 Topic: This meeting 15:13:05 Nigel: Regrets from Cyril but he asked me if we could cover ttml2#359 and ttml2#358. 15:13:09 .. Also thank you Pierre for proposing some issues to cover. 15:13:15 .. Today we can talk about the IMSC 1.0.1 implementation report as well, which has just 15:13:20 .. had a new implementation added. 15:13:40 .. Aside from that we have some other issues I marked as "agenda" and listed on the agenda. 15:13:53 .. Any other business or specific points to cover? 15:14:01 Topic: Add example fragments and images. ttml2#359 15:14:10 github: https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/359 15:14:23 present+ 15:14:27 Nigel: Cyril sent me a message saying he proposes to postpone working on this until after CR 15:14:32 .. because it is editorial only. 15:15:26 .. The remaining examples are ttp:profile, tt:animate, tt:set, isd:isdSequence, isd:isd 15:15:35 Pierre: It's fine for me if we defer. 15:15:59 Nigel: I've added it to a new milestone "Post CR1". 15:16:17 SUMMARY: Group happy to defer remaining examples until after CR publication. 15:16:40 Topic: Incorporate resolutions of additional TTML1 Issues. ttml2#358 15:16:50 github: https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/358 15:16:58 pal has joined #tt 15:17:13 Nigel: Cyril says the unchecked boxes are those issues that he does not know how to progress. 15:18:10 .. Particularly he wants to know how to progress in TTML2. 15:18:20 Pierre: I can provide commit hashes if that would help, for the TTML1 fixes. 15:18:46 Nigel: My guess is that he's looked at them and thinks there may be some differences in 15:18:48 .. TTML2 vs TTML1. 15:18:53 .. However I think they're all the same. 15:19:58 Pierre: Yes. I'm happy to go through this and check the PRs and provide suggestions. 15:20:42 Nigel: Thank you! 15:21:16 SUMMARY: @palemieux to provide more information on the current unchecked ttml1 issues listed here. 15:21:27 Pierre: I will also go through the list and make sure it is complete. 15:22:10 group: [Pierre, Nigel and Andreas] agree that separate tracking issues would have made this easier to deal with than a single umbrella issue. 15:22:58 Topic: IMSC 1.0.1 CR Exit 15:23:41 Nigel: Thanks Thierry for updating the IMSC 1.0.1 Implementation report based on input 15:23:46 .. from BaseX and IRT. 15:24:20 Thierry: I did test against the test suite for the new implementation. The exit criteria do not 15:24:32 .. require any presentation output, and this tool does not provide any, so that is okay. 15:24:48 Andreas: If you manipulate for example the itts:fillLineGap so that it is not valid then you 15:25:03 .. should find that the implementation reports an error and links to the spec place where 15:25:05 .. it is defined. 15:25:22 Thierry: The main question is if the issue is enough to satisfy the exit criteria, and the way I read it, it is. 15:25:25 Nigel: +1 15:25:42 -> https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/IMSC1_0_1_Implementation_Report IMSC 1.0.1 Implementation Report 15:27:20 Nigel: Reviewing the CR exit criteria: 15:27:28 .. "For this specification to exit the CR stage, at least 2 independent implementations of every feature defined in this specification but not already present in [IMSC1] need to be documented in the implementation report." 15:27:30 .. That's done. 15:27:33 .. Also: 15:27:42 .. "The implementation report is based on implementer-provided test results for the exit criteria test suite. " 15:27:48 Thierry: I'm satisfied that this is done. 15:28:05 Nigel: In that case what do we do now? 15:28:37 Thierry: Andreas, are you comfortable telling the group that you have provided a new implementation? 15:28:40 Andreas: Of course yes 15:28:55 Nigel: It's also in the minutes from this here meeting! 15:29:13 .. What do we need to do now? 15:29:28 Thierry: We need a transition request resolution, an updated PR draft and request transition 15:29:30 .. to the Director. 15:30:58 Nigel: Are you able to create the PR draft in the next couple of weeks? 15:31:42 Pierre: There are some pull requests to merge. I'd like to propose that we handle any 15:31:52 .. new issues on IMSC in IMSC 1.1 unless they're fatal. 15:32:19 Thierry: I wasn't aware of that - yes they need to be merged first. 15:33:42 PROPOSAL: Request transition to Proposed Recommendation of IMSC 1.0.1 when all the open issues have been closed. 15:33:54 Pierre: None of the pull requests are substantive, they are all clarifications. 15:34:42 Nigel: Looking at the open pull requests: 15:34:50 -> https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pulls?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+milestone%3A%22imsc1.0.1+PR%22 IMSC 1.0.1 Pull Requests 15:35:28 Nigel: There are 5, the most recent opened 3 days ago. They all have approvals. 15:35:35 .. Are there any open issues without pull requests. 15:35:44 Pierre: Issues 254 and 253. 15:36:23 Topic: Should UTF-8 'as specified in' point to the Encoding spec? imsc#253 15:36:33 Nigel: We asked for feedback within 2 weeks, 15 days ago. 15:36:44 .. I propose to mark this as WR-commenter-no-response. 15:37:04 RESOLUTION: Mark this as WR-commenter-no-response. 15:37:22 github-bot, end topic 15:38:31 Topic: What fillLineGap does/ affects #254 15:38:39 github: https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/254 15:38:47 Pierre: This one is marked commenter no response already. 15:39:22 Thierry: It's okay to close this and I'll pick it up via the labels. 15:39:28 github-bot, end topic 15:40:08 Topic: IMSC 1.0.1 CR Exit 15:40:42 RESOLUTION: Request transition to Proposed Recommendation of IMSC 1.0.1 when all the open issues have been closed. 15:41:47 PROPOSAL: Defer any further issues raised against IMSC 1.0.1 to IMSC 1.1 unless the WG considers them to be fatal. 15:41:54 Thierry: I think it's fair 15:42:00 RESOLUTION: Defer any further issues raised against IMSC 1.0.1 to IMSC 1.1 unless the WG considers them to be fatal. 15:42:37 Thierry: The good news is that we should have finalised this before rechartering, so that would be one deliverable that is not needed in our new Charter. 15:43:17 Nigel: Strictly it wasn't in the old Charter, it is a maintenance release of IMSC that is in the old Charter. 15:43:27 .. And we will continue to maintain IMSC in the new Charter. 15:44:05 Thierry: I will start to prepare the transition request - once I have the draft from Pierre 15:44:18 .. with the edits then if it's okay I will request transition, which should be straightforward. 15:45:29 Nigel: I've opened imsc#310 for you to do that Thierry. 15:46:59 Topic: Clarify tts:fontSize semantics ttml1#301 (pull request) 15:47:16 Pierre: Glenn has raised comments on this to make it more similar to TTML2 but the 15:47:37 .. pull request has already been approved. 15:50:10 Nigel: I think Glenn's requested changes look okay, even if they're not particularly an 15:50:13 .. improvement. 15:52:05 Pierre: One option is to make Glenn's changes, another is to merge regardless. 15:52:21 Nigel: A third is to minimise the deltas relative to TTML2 by changing TTML2 to match this. 15:54:51 Pierre: Glenn's comment at https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/pull/301#pullrequestreview-86560883 15:55:11 .. seems to differ from his later one at https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/pull/301#pullrequestreview-90286536 15:58:42 Andreas: Can we resolve to make the changes corresponding to Glenn's existing comments 15:58:49 .. and then any further changes require new issues? 15:59:17 Nigel: I think so. 15:59:33 .. If there are any issues after merging then they can be raised later. 16:01:01 -> https://rawgit.com/w3c/ttml1/issue-215-214-279-fontsize-semantics-build/index.html Built version of this pull request 16:01:23 tm has joined #tt 16:02:21 https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/pull/301#discussion_r162796091 16:04:56 Pierre: There's a duplication in TTML2 ED of the text about relative resolution of percentage 16:05:06 .. font sizes, which is both in the paragraph text and in the table row about percentages. 16:05:26 .. I'm not happy to put the same duplication in TTML1. 16:06:28 Nigel: Okay, you should point that out on the comment. 16:06:58 Pierre: Did we remove styles on tt? 16:07:00 Nigel: We agreed to. 16:07:25 Pierre: Then the text about referenced styled ancestor element is no longer needed. 16:07:37 .. In TTML1 it can only be region element. I was trying to keep it close to TTML1. 16:07:57 .. The text "If not tt element..." in TTML2 is no longer relevant. 16:08:21 Nigel: That's fair enough, not to add that TTML2 text to TTML1. 16:08:53 Andreas: Because the nearest ancestor element will always be the parent, yes? 16:08:55 Pierre: yes 16:12:10 Nigel: I think the first change can be minimised to introducing the word "computed" so 16:12:18 .. it says "relative to parent element's computed font size" 16:12:33 Andreas: I think the current pull request text is fine and the proposed text by Glenn does not really help. 16:14:44 Pierre: I generally tried to keep things the same as TTML1 so that a diff between 2nd Ed and 3rd Ed clearly shows the trail. 16:14:49 .. This is what Glenn also asked for! 16:15:20 Nigel: I think these valid comments need to go on the pull request. 16:16:21 Pierre: On the first comment I can make the editorial change to the sentence, that's fine. 16:16:40 .. But reordering will increase the delta relative to TTML1. 16:16:46 s/1/1 Second Edition 16:18:00 Nigel: Since the changes are editorial, we could apply a 3 day rule for the changes relative to the current pull request. 16:18:11 Pierre: [makes changes "live"] 16:22:26 tmichel__ has joined #tt 16:38:58 Nigel: After this has built I propose that we approve it and I'll add a comment saying that 16:39:00 tm has joined #tt 16:39:13 .. in the interests of closing this, since all the substantive comments have been addressed, 16:39:23 .. please open a new issue if there are any further changes to be made. 16:39:48 Pierre: Thank you. This was the only blocking issue on TTML1. 16:40:55 https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/307 16:41:07 Topic: Defer to TTML2 for security and privacy considerations imsc#307 16:41:22 s/7/7 (pull request) 16:42:42 Nigel: Reviewing the TTML2 Privacy and Security considerations, I believe that the following 16:42:48 .. from TTML2 do not apply to IMSC1.1: 16:43:03 .. P.7 Access to Processing State - condition is absent from IMSC1.1 16:43:06 Pierre: +1 16:43:50 Nigel: What about hyperlinking with xlink - is that possible in IMSC1.1? 16:43:52 Pierre: NO 16:43:55 s/O/o 16:44:06 Nigel: In that case P.8 does not apply to IMSC 1.1 either. 16:44:29 .. So I would call out that those two do not apply. 16:44:49 Pierre: Alright. If you file this under the pull request I can add the section and an informative 16:44:53 .. statement that they don't apply. 16:45:00 .. Tell me what to write. 16:45:03 Nigel: OK I will. 16:47:32 tmichel__ has joined #tt 16:48:07 .. [adds to the pull request] 16:48:12 Pierre: I'll implement that ASAP. 16:48:25 Nigel: I'm not concerned by editorial changes to make it read better. 16:50:13 Topic: Replacing references from TTML1 to TTML2 imsc#258 16:50:20 github: https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/258 16:50:39 Nigel: @mikedo hasn't responded here since 5th October. 16:50:54 .. There's a proposal with one +1 (from me) to close. 16:51:08 RESOLUTION: Close this issue with no change. 16:51:12 github-bot, end topic 16:51:35 Topic: Minimum URI schema support not defined. imsc#157 16:51:40 github: https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/157 16:53:27 RESOLUTION: WG agrees to close since no action appears to be necessary for IMSC1.1, which references TTML2 for this functionality. 16:53:29 github-bot, end topic 16:53:59 Topic: Resolution of relative URI values of smpte:backgroundImage not defined. #156 16:54:12 github: https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/156 16:55:02 RESOLUTION: WG agrees to close since no action appears to be necessary for IMSC1.1, which deprecates this functionality. 16:55:06 github-bot, end topic 16:55:32 Topic: Image profile should permit embedded images using smpte:image. imsc#82 16:55:38 github: https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/82 16:57:44 RESOLUTION: WG agrees to put this on the backlog for a future version of IMSC. 16:57:48 github-bot, end topic 16:58:31 Topic: Yiddish in captions/subtitles imsc#38 16:58:37 github: https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/38 17:00:04 Pierre: I confirmed recently that Yiddish is present in CLDR. 17:00:06 RESOLUTION: WG agrees to close with no action 17:00:10 github-bot, end topic 17:00:38 Topic: HRM should be a processor compliance test and allow different levels of complexity for different use cases imsc#15 17:00:44 github: https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/15 17:01:48 Nigel: Does Ruby affect the HRM? 17:02:05 Pierre: Each Ruby is a CJK character that is counted in the HRM, it is just a character. 17:02:13 Nigel: Same with text emphasis? 17:02:18 Pierre: Good question. 17:02:24 Nigel: fontShear? 17:02:28 Pierre: That's taken care of. 17:02:51 .. We might want a note about textEmphasis. I will file an issue against IMSC 1.1. 17:03:19 .. Thanks for pointing that out - they are not part of character rendering. 17:04:05 Nigel: What about textShadow? 17:04:45 Pierre: All styles... (checking) 17:04:56 Nigel: ยง10.5 explicit lists a bunch of style attributes. 17:05:08 Pierre: Yes I was afraid of that, the issue needs to include updating that list. I will do that. 17:05:54 Nigel: If you add those do you need to retest and change the threshold values? 17:06:13 Pierre: No just keep it simple and just add the new styling attributes. 17:06:40 Nigel: That's good because an IMSC1 document with additional styling applied will still 17:06:53 .. play in an IMSC1.1 processor, which might in turn have to be slightly higher performance. 17:08:06 .. In terms of the issue you're saying that the complexity level is just related to the spec 17:08:08 .. version. 17:08:20 Pierre: Yes the profile defines the HRM that applies. 17:08:26 Nigel: OK I can live with that. 17:08:42 RESOLUTION: WG resolves to close this issue. 17:08:45 github-bot, end topic 17:08:59 Topic: Meeting close 17:09:24 Pierre: Regrets from me for next week most likely. 17:10:01 .. Aside from this ttml1 fontSize issue I think we should be able to go to CR. 17:10:11 .. For IMSC 1.0.1 I will work on preparing the PR. 17:10:21 tm has joined #tt 17:10:23 .. For IMSC 1.1 we are essentially blocked by TTML2. 17:10:44 Nigel: For TTML2 there has been some progress this week; there is still a lot to do. 17:10:59 .. We effectively have around 5 days to close off the remaining issues, otherwise I will 17:11:17 .. propose to defer everything else that is open so that we can proceed with CR mid-Feb. 17:16:59 .. It would be useful for everyone who considers currently open issues to be blockers to 17:17:36 .. resolving to transition to label them as such so that the Editors and the rest of the WG 17:19:19 .. are aware and can prioritise fixing them. 17:19:43 .. Thanks everyone. [adjourns meeting] 17:19:48 rrsagent, make minutes 17:19:48 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/01/25-tt-minutes.html nigel 17:20:22 atai2 has left #tt 17:26:36 s/.. new issues on IMSC in IMSC 1.1 unless they're fatal./Pierre: new issues on IMSC in IMSC 1.1 unless they're fatal. 17:27:09 Zakim has left #tt 17:33:42 rrsagent, make minutes 17:33:42 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/01/25-tt-minutes.html nigel 17:38:21 Log: https://www.w3.org/2018/01/25-tt-irc 17:38:27 rrsagent, make minutes 17:38:27 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/01/25-tt-minutes.html nigel 17:39:29 scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 17:39:30 rrsagent, make minutes 17:39:30 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/01/25-tt-minutes.html nigel 17:59:23 tmichel__ has joined #tt 18:19:21 tmichel has joined #tt