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16:15:53 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2018/01/16-pbg-irc
16:21:56 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
16:21:56 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Business Group Telco
16:21:56 <ivan> Chair: rick
16:21:56 <ivan> Date: 2018-01-16
16:21:56 <ivan> Regrets+ mateus
16:21:56 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2018Jan/0006.html
16:21:56 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2018-01-16: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2018Jan/0006.html
16:26:17 <BillM> BillM has joined #pbg
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16:57:05 <Avneesh> present+
16:57:11 <rkwright> present +
16:57:15 <laudrain> laudrain has joined #pbg
16:57:36 <laudrain> Present+
16:57:39 <RickJ> present+
16:57:56 <jyoshii> present+
16:58:00 <wolfgang> present+ wolfgang
16:58:55 <jeff> jeff has joined #pbg
16:59:01 <jkamata> Present+
16:59:26 <liisamk> liisamk has joined #pbg
17:00:06 <laurentlemeur> laurentlemeur has joined #pbg
17:00:30 <laurentlemeur> present+ laurent
17:00:36 <jeff> present+ jeff
17:00:41 <tzviya> present+ Tzviya
17:00:51 <BillM> present+ BillM
17:01:05 <BillM> All: we are on GoToMeeting today not WebEx, see https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/publ-wg/Meetings/gotomeetings
17:01:17 <liisamk> present + Liisa
17:01:50 <BillM> or for direct access: https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/994278485 (call-in numbers are on the above web page)
17:02:42 <ivan> present+
17:02:48 <dauwhe> present+ dauwhe
17:02:58 <rachel_> present+
17:03:00 <ivan> chair: liisa
17:03:36 <rachel_> scribnick: rachel_
17:03:54 <mattg> present+
17:04:14 <rachel_> liisa: we have reformed the leadership of this group over teh last couple of weeks
17:04:22 <rachel_> ...paul and christina are stepping back
17:04:32 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #pbg
17:04:40 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
17:04:48 <rachel_> ...I looked over some high level goals for the group and asked everyone to think about that is there and if there is anything missing
17:05:14 <wolfgang> s/that/what/
17:05:26 <dauwhe> Goal 1: Broaden and grow the community of publishing stakeholders in the BG who are collaborating and communicating business/strategic requirements and vision for the future of publishing and the Web Platform.
17:05:26 <laudrain> 1. Broaden and grow the community of publishing stakeholders in the BG who are collaborating and communicating business/strategic requirements and vision for the future of publishing and the Web Platform.
17:05:30 <rachel_> ... list of 3 goals
17:05:49 <laudrain> 2. Significantly accelerate the level and completeness of EPUB 3 adoption throughout publishing
17:05:49 <laudrain> 2018
17:06:04 <rachel_> ... we need to do work to coordinate with other standards bodies
17:06:05 <laudrain> 3. Support and guide the ongoing development of Publishing WG, EPUB 3 CG and other publishing related capabilities in the Web Platform and ensure publishing stakeholders understand the opportunities and implications of Publishing@W3C and OWP overall (other standard bodies?).
17:06:14 <dauwhe> q+
17:06:22 <rachel_> ...thoughts?
17:06:26 <rachel_> ack dauwhe
17:06:59 <rachel_> dauwhe: who are we asking to change what they are doing in order to accelerate epub production?
17:07:25 <tzviya> q+ to clarify about goal 3
17:07:25 <rachel_> ...how deep are we going with this push? backlist conversions? in house communication user? etc
17:07:38 <leslie> leslie has joined #pbg
17:07:40 <laudrain> q+
17:07:46 <rachel_> ack tzviya
17:07:46 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to clarify about goal 3
17:07:55 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
17:07:55 <Zakim> Present: Avneesh, laudrain, RickJ, jyoshii, wolfgang, jkamata, laurent, jeff, Tzviya, BillM, ivan, dauwhe, rachel_, mattg, Bill_Kasdorf
17:07:57 <Zakim> On IRC I see leslie, Bill_Kasdorf, laurentlemeur, liisamk, jeff, laudrain, rkwright, Avneesh, jyoshii, wolfgang, mattg, jkamata, BillM, RRSAgent, Zakim, RickJ_, RickJ, ivan,
17:07:57 <Zakim> ... tzviya, rachel_, Karen, dauwhe, bigbluehat
17:08:05 <BillM> q+
17:08:22 <ivan> present+ liisa
17:08:28 <rachel_> tzviya: it's a little unclear what we are supporting and developing and what other standards bodies we're working with
17:08:36 <Karen> present+ Karen
17:08:40 <rachel_> ...this may need to be a charter revision at some point
17:08:49 <tzviya> q+ garth
17:08:49 <rachel_> q+ garth
17:08:53 <ivan> present+ garth, rkwright
17:09:02 <rachel_> ack laudrain
17:09:15 <ivan> present+ brian
17:09:36 <Brian_O> Brian_O has joined #pbg
17:10:06 <ivan> present+ jyoshii, jkamata, jeff, leslie
17:10:09 <rachel_> laudrain: In answer to dauwhe - it's a push to ebook producers to use epub3 and not epub2 - this can be simple and useful for simple text. In europe I try to push this idea to all the users in different countries.
17:10:15 <rachel_> ack BillM
17:10:38 <George> George has joined #pbg
17:11:06 <George> present+ George
17:11:17 <rachel_> BillM: I think we need to unpack the epub objective. we talk about broadening and deepening epub3 support. there's convincing people with partial epub3 implementations to more fully embrace epub3. the objective there is not just content producers but reading systems.
17:11:50 <rachel_> ... there is also the push for moving to epub at all (rather than just epub2 to epub3) because of the prevalence of pdf
17:12:13 <dauwhe> q?
17:12:34 <rachel_> ...anyone can edit this google doc. I encourage editing
17:12:38 <rachel_> ack garth
17:13:32 <rachel_> garth: I think laudrain and BillM are correct. We are not looking for people to send memos in epub but we should be pushing for new consumer facing content to be epub3.
17:13:40 <BillM> I am looking for people to send memos in something that's web native and accessible, whether that's EPUB 3 or PWP, but not as 2018 priority goal...
17:13:49 <BillM> ;-)
17:14:16 <rachel_> ... I would like to see the BPG provide direction to the CG
17:14:37 <rachel_> Topic: establishing priority task forces
17:14:52 <rachel_> liisa: looking at existing task forces and launching new task forces
17:15:14 <rachel_> ...we looked at the existing goals and new proposals for activity areas
17:15:36 <rachel_> ...we are proposing we take the existing ones (accessibility with Avneesh and George as leaders)
17:15:49 <rachel_> ...best practices (with rachel_ as a leader)
17:16:07 <rachel_> ...synchronized media (led by Marisa)
17:16:25 <cristina> cristina has joined #pbg
17:16:51 <rachel_> ... 2 new groups - epub roadmap (led by RickJ and laudrain)
17:17:20 <cristina> present+
17:17:28 <rachel_> ...epub market needs (led by liisamk )
17:17:43 <rachel_> ...what do we need to make sure epub stays ahead of where the market is going
17:18:06 <rachel_> ...if we can get the requirements down, we can hand them off to the right technical teams
17:18:14 <rachel_> ...also an i18n task force
17:18:17 <Brian_O> Is there a list of task forces, or are they the activity sets?
17:18:22 <tzviya> q+ to ask about epubcheck
17:18:29 <rachel_> ...(led by Bill_Kasdorf )
17:18:29 <Avneesh> q+
17:18:33 <rachel_> ack tzviya
17:18:33 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to ask about epubcheck
17:18:59 <rachel_> tzviya: I am project managing epubcheck. Where does it fit into this. We are at a standstill right now.
17:19:00 <Karen> q+
17:19:02 <BillM> I think that's part of EPUB roadmap responsibility
17:19:13 <ivan> present+ karen
17:19:16 <BillM> (epubcheck)
17:19:36 <rachel_> laudrain: I think it belongs to the epub roadmap to be clear how we cope with epubcheck development so that it is inline with most recent versions of epub
17:19:39 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
17:20:28 <tzviya> sign me up for the roadmap work, please
17:20:35 <rachel_> liisamk: the other note there is that we are trying to avoid duplication of work done in other areas. We agree that we need to better support epubcheck but that is a part of the roadmap conversation
17:20:37 <George> George has lost sound, probably my connection problem. Following on IRC
17:20:39 <rachel_> ack Avneesh
17:21:26 <rachel_> Avneesh: what is the function of a task force and how does it relate to the steering committee
17:22:50 <rachel_> liisamk: we are trying not to duplicate efforts from other groups re: best practices or accessibility but that any solutions we come up with are coordinating well and that we keep the number of tasks that we are taking on for 2018 are manageable. As we move forward, we will see what else we can do.
17:23:05 <rachel_> ...right now, we need traction on how these pieces will take off
17:23:07 <rachel_> ack Karen
17:23:15 <RickJ> q+
17:24:01 <rachel_> Karen: I have a question that is complementary - I think a lot about the w3c offices and they would like some basic information in order to explain to users what epub is and why it is beneficial - which task force would be looking at that kind of a deliverable
17:24:34 <rachel_> liisamk: right now we do not have a clear home for that. Let's take note of that and if anyone is passionate about helping, please join in.
17:25:16 <BillM> q+
17:25:23 <rachel_> Karen: one of the contacts in australia is working with govts - what is the best on ramp for the interested parties? This is a different segment than we have often talked about
17:26:42 <ivan> ack BillM
17:26:47 <rachel_> BillM: one of the goals here is streamlining the SC so the meaty discussion of issues can be discussed here. This is the watercooler whereas the task forces will be smaller groups that dig in and get done. Can we use a bracket convention and use the business group overall mailing list so everyone is informed?
17:27:00 <jeff> q+
17:27:09 <wolfgang> +1 to BillM's proposal
17:27:34 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to Bill M
17:27:35 <rachel_> ...over this last year we've had a lot of ideas from the SC that could benefit from broader participation
17:27:47 <rachel_> ack Bill_Kasdorf
17:28:11 <Avneesh> q+
17:28:19 <rachel_> Bill_Kasdorf: I agree that epubcheck and roadmap need to be aligned but I am worried that deliberations will delay epubcheck updating and releasing
17:28:21 <laudrain> +1
17:28:24 <tzviya> +1 to BillK
17:28:26 <jeff> q- later
17:28:31 <rachel_> ack RickJ
17:29:03 <rachel_> RickJ: one of the thoughts around the epub roadmap task force is the number of short term questions blocking work
17:29:12 <rachel_> ...marketin message around epub
17:29:18 <rachel_> ...epubcheck updates
17:29:27 <BillM> q+
17:29:28 <wolfgang> s/marketin/marketing/
17:29:33 <rachel_> ...the idea is that this task force (roadmap) can be short lived
17:29:50 <rachel_> q+ garth
17:29:58 <jeff> q- later
17:30:02 <rachel_> ack Avneesh
17:30:20 <rachel_> Avneesh: what about governance of the epub CG
17:30:44 <rachel_> RickJ: the standing members of the steering committee will be the chairs of each group
17:30:54 <rachel_> ack BillM
17:31:06 <garth> garth has joined #pbg
17:31:10 <rachel_> BillM: just to address an elephant in the room re: BillM
17:31:11 <garth> present+ Garth
17:31:20 <garth> q?
17:31:27 <rachel_> s/re: billm/ Bill_Kasdorf
17:32:10 <rachel_> BillM: we don't want to embark on epubcheck for 3.1 if we havent working out epub3/3.1/3.01/3.02/3.2
17:32:29 <rachel_> q?
17:32:30 <garth> q?
17:32:36 <rachel_> ack garth
17:33:24 <laudrain> yes
17:33:30 <rachel_> garth: from a developer perspective is bringing it up to the current version of epub but we do additionally need developer resources
17:33:39 <dauwhe> q?
17:33:43 <rachel_> ack jeff
17:34:07 <ivan> present+ Jeff_Jaffee
17:34:22 <rachel_> Jeff: thank you for organizing these task forces. BillM Karen and I spent some time talking to stakeholders last month.
17:34:47 <rachel_> ...there were emails floating around on the mailing lists where there were some energetic perspectives about what comes next
17:35:30 <rachel_> ...let's make sure we are aligned on these task forces. I want to reconfirm that there aren't any issues NOT covered by these task forces. Otherwise, we have a work plan to go forward.
17:35:34 <Brian_O> q+
17:35:41 <rachel_> ack Brian_O
17:36:11 <rachel_> Brian_O: I'm struggling to understand the link btwn the task forces and the activities
17:36:27 <rachel_> liisamk: the task forces and the activities are definitely not one to one
17:36:45 <rachel_> ... when we met in the fall in order to bring together all of the information contributed this far
17:37:15 <Brian_O> q+
17:38:10 <rachel_> ... we figure out what the roadmap is for epub short term, what to do with epubcheck, what the relationship is to PWP (how do you explain this to someone not in the middle of it) - we want to do this quickly so we can keep moving forward
17:38:16 <rachel_> ack Brian_O
17:38:27 <rachel_> Brian_O: is there a coherent list of these TFs?
17:38:31 <BillM> q+
17:38:38 <BillM> ack BillM
17:38:58 <BillM> q+
17:39:10 <Bill_Kasdorf> should the list of task forces that be on Publishing@W3C?
17:39:14 <rachel_> liisamk: we can provide that
17:39:32 <rachel_> BillM: I don't think we need agreement on this call
17:39:49 <rachel_> ...we can put a 72 hour timer on a google doc listing these
17:39:58 <rachel_> ... so people can review comment and update
17:40:01 <rachel_> ack Bill_Kasdorf
17:40:14 <rachel_> ack BillM
17:40:40 <rachel_> BillM: My suggestion is we give members a chance to review
17:40:43 <RickJ> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jpw0KA9StAnWZAaIMqnITmdSOchIZeQIvphX5AmAulg/edit
17:40:50 <RickJ> updated with task force list
17:41:00 <Brian_O> agree that a review period is a good way to proceed
17:42:15 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
17:42:31 <rachel_> liisamk: please read the email chain (the versioning conversation); it emphasizes the need for this roadmap
17:42:36 <tzviya> topic: epub 3.X
17:42:41 <rachel_> ack Bill_Kasdorf
17:42:54 <rachel_> Bill_Kasdorf: who has the decision making responsibility on that?
17:42:54 <BillM> q+
17:43:07 <rachel_> ... there does seem to be a consensus developing
17:43:15 <rachel_> ...will the CG or the BG vote?
17:43:16 <dauwhe> q?
17:43:20 <ivan> ack BillM
17:43:43 <rachel_> BillM: the epub3 community group with approval from the PBG
17:43:48 <laudrain> q+
17:45:35 <rachel_> ack laudrain
17:45:39 <laudrain> https://github.com/w3c/publ-epub-revision/issues
17:45:47 <dauwhe> q+
17:45:53 <rachel_> laudrain: this email chain has been moved to github
17:46:13 <rachel_> ...as dauwhe reminded us in IRC, there is hope of a concenses
17:46:33 <wolfgang> s/consenses/consensus/
17:46:58 <rachel_> dauwhe: this is in scope for the CG
17:47:01 <rachel_> ack dauwhe
17:47:02 <laudrain> +1
17:47:23 <rachel_> ...the conversation is happening in the right place for now
17:47:26 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
17:47:33 <rachel_> ack Bill_Kasdorf
17:47:56 <rachel_> Bill_Kasdorf: numbering it is one decision, what the spec is is the next decision
17:49:13 <rachel_> liisamk: SC will be chairs and task force leads
17:49:49 <rachel_> BillM: we should make a call for consensus from this group about the changes to the SC
17:49:57 <Avneesh> q+
17:50:02 <rachel_> ...this BG is supposed to "elect" the SC
17:50:11 <rachel_> ...we need to approve that change here
17:51:28 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
17:51:29 <rachel_> ...maybe on the next call?
17:51:33 <cristina> q+
17:51:35 <rachel_> ack Avneesh
17:52:11 <rachel_> avneesh: the discussions we had in dec included the SC change mentioned above and that we had to continue with the SC elections through 2018
17:52:54 <rachel_> ...we thought as a group it would be better to combine. Each candidate for the SC should write in their mandate and ask for election.
17:53:07 <rachel_> ...are we moving toward just appointing the SC, not electing?
17:53:24 <Brian_O> have to drop off to host a BISG webinar. Will follow up on the planned documentation when it is available
17:53:46 <rachel_> BillM: to clarify, we have set a group that we are recommending, but we are asking for votes on this group from this group
17:54:05 <rachel_> ...if anyone else wants to stand for election, we can use a new process
17:54:24 <rachel_> ack Bill_Kasdorf
17:54:42 <rachel_> Bill_Kasdorf: there is a timing issue because the elections had to be annual
17:54:54 <rachel_> ...this does not match the lifespan of the task forces
17:55:18 <Avneesh> q+
17:55:18 <rachel_> ...we cant wait for a year to start a new TF
17:55:36 <rachel_> ...or have extra SC members based on defunct TFs
17:55:50 <RickJ> q+
17:55:58 <rachel_> liisamk: as TFs come and go, we were planning to work out logistics for membership
17:56:01 <rachel_> ack cristina
17:56:13 <rachel_> cristina: it's not clear to me what we are trying to do
17:56:21 <rachel_> ...we need a chair for each TF
17:56:27 <rachel_> ...how is this chair defined?
17:56:39 <rachel_> ...we need to overlap the SC and chair
17:57:17 <rachel_> ...can we define as precisely as possible these needs for the next meeting?
17:57:45 <rachel_> ...one option is to propose the leads of the task forces
17:57:54 <rachel_> ...who would be the other people working on the task forces
17:58:03 <rachel_> ...how long would these people be chairs?
17:58:45 <rachel_> ack Avneesh
17:58:49 <tzviya> simple proposal - chairs of WG, BG, and CG are formal SC (as slate to be voted on) and TF leads are invited to meetings as "guests"
17:59:49 <dauwhe> I'll take over, rachel
18:00:05 <dauwhe> scribenick: dauwhe
18:00:21 <dauwhe> liisamk: we're out of time; we need to have another meeting
18:00:25 <dauwhe> ... two weeks, same time?
18:00:29 <RickJ> +1
18:00:33 <dauwhe> +1
18:00:35 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1
18:00:35 <tzviya> +1 to 30 Jan
18:00:36 <wolfgang> +1
18:00:39 <laudrain> +1
18:00:42 <rachel_> comment from robby robson: Robby here from IEEE Learning Technology Standards ... just commenting that we are taking next steps to start a project for guides for using EPUB 3 for learning applications. Relevant to standards coordination and task forces. On phone in car so don't put me on queu.
18:00:42 <rkwright> +1
18:00:58 <dauwhe> RickJ: it's important to understand that what we're proposing is different than the last year
18:01:10 <dauwhe> ... the purpose of the SC is coordination; the work is done in the task forces
18:01:16 <BillM> task forces of BG, plus work of CG and WG
18:01:22 <dauwhe> ... we should start with that conversation in the next meeting
18:01:25 <BillM> (not all work will be BG task forces, that's a key point)
18:01:30 <dauwhe> liisamk: anything else?
18:01:38 <BillM> and CG and/or WG may create task forces of their own...
18:01:54 <dauwhe> liisamk: Congrats to Avneesh and 2018!
18:02:44 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:02:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/01/16-pbg-minutes.html ivan
18:02:44 <ivan> zakim, bye
18:02:44 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
18:02:44 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
18:02:44 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Avneesh, laudrain, RickJ, jyoshii, wolfgang, jkamata, laurent, jeff, Tzviya, BillM, ivan, dauwhe, rachel_, mattg, Bill_Kasdorf,
18:02:44 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pbg