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20:58:10 <kcoyle> rrsagent, make logs public
20:58:18 <roba> present+
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21:01:48 <antoine> present+ antoine
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21:03:38 <LarsG> present+
21:03:54 <DaveBrowning> present+
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21:04:06 <alejandra> present+
21:04:08 <nicholascar> great!
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21:04:17 <annette_g> present +
21:04:24 <nicholascar> present+
21:04:26 <Makx> Makx has joined #dxwg
21:05:26 <PWinstanley> scribe nick:PWinstanley
21:05:35 <PWinstanley> scribenick:PWinstanley
21:06:06 <PWinstanley> https://www.w3.org/2017/12/12-dxwg-minutes
21:06:06 <kcoyle> https://www.w3.org/2017/12/12-dxwg-minutes
21:06:22 <alejandra> could we update the table at https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings with all the scribes, please?
21:06:25 <PWinstanley> Approval of last meeting's minutes
21:06:35 <SimonCox> present+ SimonCox
21:06:47 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: I will try to update the scribes list
21:06:55 <Ixchel> Ixchel has joined #dxwg
21:07:27 <Ixchel> present+
21:07:49 <kcoyle> RESOLVED: approve minutes of previous meeting (Dec 12, 2017)
21:08:14 <kcoyle> TOPIC: promote UCR
21:08:17 <roba> q+
21:08:32 <kcoyle> ack roba
21:09:26 <PWinstanley> roba: I note that we have a new member on the list - Nick Car
21:09:49 <kcoyle> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_f5CAZv7rgUjJH5YXkmD6w5xS6GX5X2AmEp_LMptAfQ/edit#gid=0
21:09:57 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: we need to think about doing a second round of emails to promote/stimulate responses to the UCR publication
21:10:25 <DaveBrowning> q+
21:10:41 <PWinstanley> DaveBrowning: what is the green colour?
21:11:12 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: Caroline did that , but not sure what it means.  The column 'sent' should be the key
21:11:36 <PWinstanley> ... if your name is on the spreadsheet then send it
21:12:13 <nicholascar> q+
21:12:17 <alejandra> q+
21:12:29 <DaveBrowning> q-
21:12:32 <PWinstanley> nicholascar: should we add new contacts?
21:12:34 <kcoyle> ack DaveBrowning
21:12:38 <kcoyle> ack nicholascar
21:12:38 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: yes please
21:12:53 <kcoyle> ack alejandra
21:13:21 <PWinstanley> alejandra: people are supposed to reply by 20 Jan, we reply to comments. What's next?
21:13:24 <AndreaPerego> AndreaPerego has joined #dxwg
21:13:32 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: comments feed into the next version of the draft
21:13:37 <AndreaPerego> present+ AndreaPerego
21:13:52 <PWinstanley> ...we don't have a set date for the next draft
21:14:03 <PWinstanley> alejandra: but if there are no comments?
21:14:20 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: we ourselves might want to update the draft too ...
21:14:38 <kcoyle> q?
21:14:54 <PWinstanley> TOPIC: open action items
21:15:01 <kcoyle> https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/track/actions/open
21:15:40 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: jaroslav is still intending to cover action #50
21:15:57 <PWinstanley> ... andrea - Action 59?
21:16:24 <PWinstanley> AndreaPerego: I am still on the case, hope to get completion in the next couple of weeks
21:16:55 <PWinstanley> roba: Mine can be marked as done
21:17:38 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: Rob, please can you say what is going on in OGC (open geospatial consortium) that's relevant
21:19:02 <PWinstanley> roba: OGC specialises in spatio-temporal matters.  I have a role as OGC staff member supporting knowledge management, and we are interested in describing relationships between our specifications, their versions and their profiles.  I'm building a linked data environment to describe this
21:19:34 <PWinstanley> ...Because it is early days I have freedom in choices and have decided to link it to DXWG activity stream
21:19:57 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: on our home page we have related docs/vocabs.  If there is anything related please link it there
21:20:21 <PWinstanley> roba: I plan to share a model for describing profiles.
21:20:30 <Makx> q+
21:20:34 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: I am doing a similar thing for Dubllin Core
21:20:52 <LarsG> s/Dubllin/Dublin/
21:20:57 <kcoyle> ack Makx
21:21:00 <AndreaPerego> Just to note that OGC has also a group working on DCAT for geo metadata - already included in the list of stakeholders that have been contacted for the UCR doc.
21:21:25 <PWinstanley> Makx: Do you want to look at the EC ADMS schema - a DCAT-based schema for profiles and schemas.
21:21:28 <roba> q+
21:21:45 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: please add to the home page
21:21:47 <SimonCox> @Makx - what is the scope of ADMS?
21:21:53 <AndreaPerego> ^^ https://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-adms/
21:22:11 <kcoyle> https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Main_Page#Background_About_Profiles
21:22:15 <SimonCox> (I have looked at it but not fully clear what set of problems it targets)
21:22:44 <kcoyle> q?
21:22:49 <kcoyle> ack roba
21:23:37 <PWinstanley> roba: while I've been working on requirements I'm happy to slot in with wider activity - the namespace must relate to a body that OGC has liaison with already, but it can be brought through this group to do that
21:23:58 <PWinstanley> ...Gathering prior art would be a good starting point
21:24:07 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: does this become a use case?
21:24:32 <PWinstanley> roba: I think it might be covered by existing generic UC, but we might need a more specific one.
21:25:05 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: add it as a github issue to allow discussion before we firm up the action on this
21:25:10 <PWinstanley> TOPIC: co-chair
21:25:43 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: Peter has volunteered to take over from Caroline when she steps out
21:25:58 <PWinstanley> ... we will work Peter into the schedule
21:26:25 <LarsG> PWinstanley++
21:26:32 <AndreaPerego> +1!
21:26:46 <annette_g> +100
21:26:47 <PWinstanley> TOPIC: meetings for DCAT & Profiles
21:26:49 <antoine> hurray!
21:27:05 <alejandra> +q
21:27:25 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: we determined that DCAT meetings will be on Wednesdays, 20:00 UTC
21:27:30 <kcoyle> ack alejandra
21:28:26 <PWinstanley> alejandra: After we made this decision Andrea updated his availability and it doesn't include this time.  We will start with the decided time and review depending on attendance
21:29:09 <PWinstanley> AndreaPerego: I changed the timeslot when the poll was extended.  The Wednesday 20:00 will be difficult for me
21:29:32 <PWinstanley> ...If I'm the only one affected then just go ahead without me
21:30:59 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: we need to know who is going to call the meeting.  Use of webex is through Dave Raggett - but if you are using other things then that's fine.  Use the IRC and Zakim to facilitate getting a record of the meeting
21:31:09 <PWinstanley> ...There needs to be a public record
21:31:33 <PWinstanley> SimonCox: Do you want me to do it?
21:31:37 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: Yes please
21:31:42 <SimonCox> I will manage DCAT meetings then
21:32:05 <DaveBrowning> +1 to SimonCox
21:32:13 <alejandra> +1
21:32:14 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: Please post on email the schedule and connection
21:32:19 <AndreaPerego> What about the IRC channel to be used? #dxwg-dcat?
21:32:54 <alejandra> so, use the same channel as now
21:32:57 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: we can use #dxwg
21:33:06 <PWinstanley> ... the same channel as now
21:33:06 <AndreaPerego> s/#dxwg-dcat/#dxwgdcat/
21:33:37 <AndreaPerego> q+
21:33:40 <PWinstanley> ... using RRSAgent we will have to experiment with naming of minutes
21:33:59 <PWinstanley> SimonCox: I will contact Dave Raggett and sort arrangements
21:34:34 <RubenVerborgh> q+ to ask whether Profiles group includes content negotiation
21:34:37 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: we can also ask about naming conventions and options for automated management of minutes
21:34:46 <PWinstanley> ...Next is the profiles group
21:34:47 <alejandra> +q
21:34:49 <kcoyle> q?
21:35:26 <PWinstanley> AndreaPerego: I propose a separate IRC channel - just in case there are parallel sessions
21:35:38 <PWinstanley> ... Dave R can advise
21:35:46 <kcoyle> ack AndreaPerego
21:35:54 <kcoyle> ack RubenVerborgh
21:35:54 <Zakim> RubenVerborgh, you wanted to ask whether Profiles group includes content negotiation
21:36:23 <PWinstanley> RubenVerborgh: the last email was about splitting profiles into guidance and content negotiation - what does the group cover
21:36:39 <antoine> q+
21:36:50 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: separate groups for each deliverable - so how do we want to split
21:36:54 <annette_g> q+
21:37:45 <PWinstanley> ...Did you see the note after antoine  posted to suggest that the content negotiation could be independent and be covered before the profiles
21:38:22 <roba> q+
21:38:30 <kcoyle> q?
21:38:38 <PWinstanley> ... RubenVerborgh  and LarsG  can proceed without waiting for others
21:38:55 <PWinstanley> ..The profiles should be renamed to profile guidance
21:39:14 <PWinstanley> RubenVerborgh: There should be an invitation email
21:39:36 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: most of those interested in profiles were interested in guidance.
21:39:48 <roba> I intend to implement profile negotiation.. so will join that group.
21:40:01 <PWinstanley> RubenVerborgh: I will send an email around
21:40:04 <kcoyle> ack alejandra
21:40:27 <PWinstanley> alejandra: I want to return to the DCAT group - are we planning to start this week?
21:40:47 <kcoyle> ack antoi
21:41:43 <PWinstanley> antoine: Organisation of profile discussion - it can meet in the same space as the content negotiation so as to cross-fertilise
21:41:54 <kcoyle> ack annette_g
21:42:12 <AndreaPerego> +1 to antoine
21:42:19 <PWinstanley> annette_g: We might want to start out together and split into subgroups later
21:42:51 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: that is what we were trying to do on the content page.  It was clear that there were different parallel paths that were not meeting
21:43:41 <PWinstanley> annette_g: the first joint meeting should discuss the broad definition and then determine the commonality that allows the content negotiation people to push ahead
21:43:48 <kcoyle> q?
21:44:02 <roba> +1
21:44:06 <alejandra> +1
21:44:08 <antoine> q+
21:44:12 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: What do people think?  Does the initial joint meeting followed by splitting up later suit?
21:44:19 <kcoyle> ack roba
21:44:27 <PWinstanley> roba: I support this.
21:45:10 <PWinstanley> ... Also at least 3 of us are modelling profiles, so this needs to be done in plenary so that we have an agreed formalism as a starting point
21:45:11 <kcoyle> ack antoine
21:45:38 <PWinstanley> antoine: I was suggesting for cross-fertilisation, as I don't think we can get an agreement in just one meeting
21:45:53 <annette_g> +1 to antoine
21:46:08 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: Rob mentioned a plenary.  Would it make sense to have this discussed in a general meeting?
21:46:19 <roba> regular agenda item :-)
21:46:36 <roba> q+
21:46:37 <annette_g> :D
21:46:50 <kcoyle> ack roba
21:46:51 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: I am willing for us to do that if that is what the group wants
21:47:07 <PWinstanley> roba: I think we should ask the question
21:47:26 <PWinstanley> ... are we in a position to parallelise activities, or not?
21:47:58 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: I fear we will have to come up with more than one term - one for ConNeg, and another for guidance
21:47:59 <antoine> q+
21:48:06 <kcoyle> ack antoine
21:48:08 <roba> -1 for different term - +1 to formalise model so we can see if it is the same
21:48:14 <AndreaPerego> q+
21:48:26 <PWinstanley> antoine: does the charter allow us to split definitions in the final specs?
21:48:33 <roba> q+
21:49:13 <kcoyle> q?
21:49:16 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: the charter uses 'application profile' for both, but we could decide on a macro-level and a more specialised version.  I've talked to Phil Archer who said we can refine the terms as we need
21:49:53 <PWinstanley> AndreaPerego: looking at the profiles use cases, we are using the word two ways -
21:50:32 <PWinstanley> ... We need to align with the terminology we use in the UCR otherwise it will be challenging for readers
21:50:40 <kcoyle> q?
21:50:40 <SimonCox> q+ process clarification - how will we track and tag requirements?
21:50:41 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: we need a way of distinguishing them
21:50:47 <kcoyle> ack AndreaPerego
21:51:02 <SimonCox> q+ to clarify how will we track and tag requirements?
21:51:08 <kcoyle> ack roba
21:52:00 <PWinstanley> roba: at this stage we cannot make a call if they are different or not.  If there are strong reasons for general and special views then that's OK, but we should not prejudge and we should do the work.  Life would be simpler if they were the same thing (though different aspects)
21:52:20 <kcoyle> ack SimonCox
21:52:20 <Zakim> SimonCox, you wanted to clarify how will we track and tag requirements?
21:52:22 <AndreaPerego> s/using the word two ways/using the word more than two ways/
21:52:23 <PWinstanley> ... The ISO definition seems to be broad enough to handle all
21:52:52 <PWinstanley> SimonCox: I am concerned that we are getting into material that should be covered in subgroup.
21:52:58 <antoine> +1 with roba : in general I'm rather optimistic that we can get an agreement. I just think it will be super hard to do it quickly, and without first draft specs under our eyes.
21:54:20 <PWinstanley> ...I am concerned too about process - I started work on DCAT but had problems finding all documentation.  In the last meeting we agreed to focus on github, yet we still have UCR in an HTML doc.  We need to sort requirements to deliverables and this is challenging with the HTML doc esp as we agree to use github
21:55:09 <PWinstanley> ...The subgroups will benefit from a clarification of process.  I have started by suggesting to group leads that we convert the UCR into github
21:55:25 <roba> q+
21:55:45 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: we agreed that we work on the documents in github, but not all our work will take place this way (e.g. google spreadsheet)
21:56:09 <kcoyle> ack roba
21:56:21 <PWinstanley> SimonCox: we are creating work by using too many tools and not using github as it can be used
21:57:13 <alejandra> +q
21:57:40 <PWinstanley> roba: I dont disagree with Simon, but it would be good to chat to Jaroslav to see if the conversion can be automated.  Doing it by hand would be too lengthy.  We need to explore potential for scripting the parsing
21:57:57 <PWinstanley> ... I will go with whatever we decide
21:58:11 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: roba  will you check with Jaroslav?
21:58:19 <SimonCox> It is easy to generate a list of github issues tagged as 'requirement' for a single deliverable - e.g. https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues?q=label%3Arequirement+label%3Adcat
21:58:30 <PWinstanley> roba: if we decide to go with github then yes
21:58:50 <alejandra> q-
21:58:57 <SimonCox> (currently empty)
21:58:59 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: we don't have much time - so a straw poll now?
21:59:02 <kcoyle> strawpoll: use github for discussing/deciding on requirements
21:59:08 <SimonCox> +1
21:59:10 <nicholascar> +
21:59:10 <alejandra> +1
21:59:11 <Makx> +1
21:59:12 <nicholascar> +1
21:59:13 <roba> +1
21:59:16 <antoine> +1
21:59:16 <PWinstanley> +1
21:59:17 <LarsG> +1
21:59:18 <annette_g> +1
21:59:18 <DaveBrowning> +1
21:59:49 <kcoyle> ACTION: roba contact Jaroslav re: scripting github issues from UCR
21:59:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-72 - Contact jaroslav re: scripting github issues from ucr [on Rob Atkinson - due 2018-01-16].
22:00:14 <nicholascar> We use GitHub Issues in other WGs like RDA's
22:00:44 <PWinstanley> kcoyle: I will put the discussion on how we are defining profiles into the next meeting agenda
22:01:06 <LarsG> thanks, bye
22:01:06 <annette_g> thanks folks!
22:01:07 <alejandra> thanks and bye!
22:01:08 <PWinstanley> ...If you can formulate the question that the group has to decide on then please let everyone know
22:01:09 <AndreaPerego> Thanks, and bye!
22:01:10 <RubenVerborgh> bye!
22:01:11 <RubenVerborgh> RubenVerborgh has left #dxwg
22:01:14 <kcoyle> rrsagent, please generate minutes v2
22:01:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/01/09-dxwg-minutes.html kcoyle
22:01:14 <nicholascar> bye
22:03:34 <AndreaPerego> meeting: Dataset Exchange Working Group Teleconference
22:03:38 <AndreaPerego> chair: Karen
22:03:58 <AndreaPerego> regrets+ Jaroslav, Riccardo
22:04:14 <AndreaPerego> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2018.01.09
22:04:26 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
22:04:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/01/09-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego