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17:57:08 <tidoust> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Best Practices Maintenance call
17:57:11 <tidoust> Chair: Michael
17:57:15 <tidoust> RRSAgent, make logs public
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19:00:43 <ChrisLittle> present+ ChrisLittle
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19:01:06 <MichaelGordon> present+
19:01:26 <Linda> present+
19:03:55 <tidoust> present+ Francois
19:04:15 <tidoust> scribenick: tidoust
19:04:35 <tidoust> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdwig/2017Nov/0032.html
19:05:11 <tidoust> Present+ Michael_Gordon
19:05:16 <tidoust> present+ Chris_Little
19:05:21 <tidoust> Topic: Introductions
19:05:55 <tidoust> Chris: From UK Met. Involved in OGC and also working with Simon Cox on time ontology.
19:06:09 <tidoust> ... Also involved in the dormant SVG working group.
19:06:42 <tidoust> ... My interest currently is more on the Time Ontology, the statistics, building ontologies on top of RDF Data Cubes and data telling through that.
19:06:54 <tidoust> ... Not necessarily going to pay a close attention to BP maintenance.
19:07:20 <tidoust> Linda: One of the former editors of the Best Practices. Currently the Chair of the SDW Interest Group.
19:07:41 <tidoust> ... Not sure how much time I will be able to devote to this Best Practice maintenance but will do my best.
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19:07:54 <tidoust> ... The section on gaps in current best practices is what I'm interested to focus on.
19:09:19 <tidoust> [Side discussion on number of persons present. Conflict with OGC meeting probably explains the lack of participants this time]
19:09:23 <billroberts> hi all - sorry I'm late - just wrestling the webex...
19:09:42 <Linda> It is actually the ISO meeting...
19:10:19 <tidoust> Michael: Working in Ordnance Survey. Been working on data APIs for the 6-7 last years. Seeing the Spatial data on the Web best practices be adopted is pretty important to me.
19:10:54 <tidoust> ... Level of enthusiasm for these best practices, especially on the OGC side, that's very good.
19:11:29 <tidoust> Chris: About API, I don't know if that's one of the gaps, but certainly, a lot of the work we're doing in OGC is data retrieval pattern.
19:11:50 <tidoust> ... We'd like to move on from the concept of Point.
19:12:02 <billroberts> present+ billroberts
19:12:31 <tidoust> ... A data retrieval query language would be very interesting.
19:12:31 <tidoust> ... Does that fit within what you envision?
19:12:41 <tidoust> Michael: Good point discussing the approach for some of these maintenance activities.
19:13:20 <tidoust> ... Seeing how they apply in practice in different kinds of applications.
19:13:30 <tidoust> ... Here are some caveats to this bp if you're looking at this kind of problem, etc.
19:13:51 <tidoust> ... What works, how things evolve.
19:14:07 <tidoust> Chris: Any thoughts on that API idea, Linda?
19:14:24 <tidoust> Linda: The gaps that are described in the current best practices are [going through the list]
19:15:05 <tidoust> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/NOTE-sdw-bp-20170928/#conclusions Gaps in current best practices in the SDW BP Note
19:15:29 <tidoust> Linda: One of them is what you're mentioning
19:15:49 <tidoust> Chris: OK, I think there are enough gaps for us to look into.
19:16:18 <tidoust> Michael: Providing opportunity for feedback from the community. You wrote this, what do you mean by that?
19:16:39 <tidoust> ... It's worth for us, we have another reference, another best practice that we feel should be in the document.
19:17:51 <tidoust> Topic: Approach for maintenance work
19:18:21 <tidoust> Michael: I'm relatively new to W3C, what's the usual approach for such maintenance?
19:18:49 <tidoust> Bill: Sorry I'm late. The thing I'm most interested in is seeing our best practices being applied in real life.
19:19:14 <tidoust> ... The bit about APIs is definitely of value to me, matches developments I'm involved in.
19:19:52 <tidoust> ... Among the gaps, an agreed geospatial RDF vocabulary would be very useful for the things I'm working in, as we keep switching from one vocabulary to another.
19:20:23 <tidoust> ... Encouraging the take up of these best practices more broadly is something I'd like to pursue.
19:21:21 <tidoust> Michael: Encouraging the adoption of the Best Practices. How to encourage adoption. How to gather feedback. How to cover the existing gaps that Linda mentioned.
19:21:38 <tidoust> ... Would people think that these are good streams of activities?
19:22:01 <tidoust> Linda: We cannot work on all of the gaps at once. We probably have to select the ones that are most important for us.
19:22:23 <tidoust> Michael: That's a good point.
19:22:55 <tidoust> ... Describing dataset and services behavior may be a good starting point.
19:23:44 <tidoust> Jo: CTO of PSMA Australia. Publication of geo addresses for Australia as linked data is what we're going through at the moment.
19:24:04 <billroberts> q+
19:24:12 <tidoust> ack billroberts
19:25:16 <tidoust> Bill: A significant difference from where we were a couple of years is that we're talking about updates to existing BP. That's more dissemination and outreach than a technical activity.
19:25:23 <tidoust> ... I wonder if people have thoughts about that.
19:25:41 <tidoust> ... Linda and others wrote papers about the best practices.
19:25:51 <tidoust> ... How can we organize the group to have a coherent plan for communication?
19:26:03 <tidoust> Chris: How about calling some session where we can think about that?
19:26:17 <tidoust> ... Through WMO, I plan to evangelize this work.
19:26:35 <tidoust> ... We can propagate interest and raise awareness.
19:26:50 <tidoust> ... That's something I can persuade my boss it's part of my job, probably.
19:26:57 <tidoust> ... What is the workplan, what do we do?
19:27:49 <Linda> q+
19:28:02 <tidoust> q+ to mention "flipcards"
19:29:03 <tidoust> ... One of the first organizations to evangelize to is OGC. Still a silo. W3C is interesting because it's cross-domain.
19:29:15 <tidoust> ack Linda
19:29:47 <tidoust> Linda: Reacting to Chris. We already are evangelizing at OGC. WFS taking note of them.
19:30:26 <tidoust> ... I'm fairly optimistic about that, the Best Practices were well received. We got mentioned in a lot of SWIG and WIGS.
19:31:05 <tidoust> ... Another audience are developers, data users who can use spatial data.
19:31:14 <tidoust> ... That's different audience.
19:31:30 <tidoust> ... We could create a hall of fame, with examples of what is already out there.
19:31:36 <tidoust> ... Maybe that will motivate people.
19:31:45 <billroberts> q+
19:31:45 <tidoust> ack tidoust
19:31:46 <Zakim> tidoust, you wanted to mention "flipcards"
19:32:35 <tidoust> -> https://www.w3.org/2007/02/mwbp_flip_cards Mobile Web Best Practices flipcards
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19:35:23 <tidoust> Francois: Mentioning the history of flipcards done in 2007 to evangelize Best Practices to developers. Got very positive feedback, even years after. It might be a good idea to try to come up with a similar set of summarized version of the best practices.
19:35:31 <ChrisLittle_> * irc timed out on me
19:35:42 <ChrisLittle_> +1 to Hall of Fame
19:35:53 <tidoust> Bill: All of these suggestions that people are making is good. My main point here is that we should make a plan.
19:36:07 <ChrisLittle_> +1 to 'crib sheets/cards
19:36:21 <tidoust> ... Track what people are doing, and coordinate our efforts. Of course, we're "volunteers", no budget, so we'll have limited activity.
19:36:40 <tidoust> Michael: I agree. That's a good discussion to have a pool of ideas mentioned.
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19:37:01 <tidoust> ... We are in the maintenance phase of these best practices. Different from new work on best practices.
19:37:27 <josephabhayaratna> q+
19:37:31 <tidoust> ... I'll do an email out to the group following the publication of the minutes of these meetings to share some ideas and activities we could be doing.
19:37:41 <tidoust> ack billroberts
19:38:23 <tidoust> Michael: What is the best use of our time? Is it on encouraging adoption at the moment and soliciting feedback? Working on gaps that have been identified? Try to do a little bit of both?
19:38:28 <tidoust> ack josephabhayaratna
19:38:35 <ChrisLittle_> q+
19:39:20 <tidoust> Jo: Data publishers and developers. We can start with the group we're connected into.
19:39:28 <tidoust> ... Categorize these groups
19:40:39 <tidoust> [scribe notes he was disconnected from audio for a minute]
19:40:55 <tidoust> Linda: You can use GitHub wiki pages, markdown document, whatever you like.
19:41:00 <josephabhayaratna> +1
19:41:05 <ChrisLittle_> =1 GitHub
19:41:05 <tidoust> Michael: Would everybody else be happy to use GitHub?
19:41:11 <billroberts> +1
19:41:13 <tidoust> +&
19:41:18 <Linda> +1
19:41:19 <tidoust> s/+&/+1
19:41:22 <MichaelGordon> +1
19:42:04 <josephabhayaratna> q+
19:42:28 <billroberts> q+
19:42:34 <tidoust> Chris: I believe we should do both in parallel. Once you have a comm plan, you can focus back on gaps. Denise does press releases at OGC for instance.
19:43:03 <tidoust> ... We can focus on technical work once we have a comm plan.
19:43:38 <tidoust> Michael: Noting down things on GitHub seems a good start.
19:43:46 <tidoust> ack ChrisLittle_
19:43:52 <tidoust> ack josephabhayaratna
19:43:59 <ChrisLittle_> q-
19:44:13 <tidoust> Jo: Who wants to create the bit for us to start the work?
19:44:26 <tidoust> Michael: I'm happy to do it if everyone's happy with that.
19:45:15 <tidoust> Jo: One of the things to capture: categories of users and things we're involved in. Also, what events are happening when we think we need a presence? Data research alliance, for instance. A great way for us not to miss opportunities.
19:45:57 <tidoust> Michael: I'm happy to sketch a structure there.
19:46:00 <tidoust> ack billroberts
19:47:00 <tidoust> Bill: Getting Denise McKensie on the case is a great idea. We also want to target other kinds of people, those that usually do not hear about OGC and W3C.
19:47:11 <Linda> q+
19:47:11 <tidoust> ... Seems important to extend beyond our usual circles.
19:47:25 <tidoust> ack Linda
19:47:35 <tidoust> Linda: Who of us is going to persuade Denise to join us?
19:47:45 <tidoust> Michael: Happy to catch up with her.
19:48:02 <tidoust> Jo: I'm actually with her next week. We're running a forum on Monday.
19:48:20 <tidoust> Chris: I'll keep proding her.
19:48:36 <tidoust> Michael: By all means, Jo, go ahead.
19:48:44 <ChrisLittle_> q+
19:48:53 <tidoust> ack ChrisLittle_
19:49:17 <tidoust> Chris: We can ask Denise about UN GGIM
19:49:25 <tidoust> Jo: The academic network as well.
19:49:47 <tidoust> Michael: I'll take these ideas from the minutes and pour them in GitHub.
19:49:55 <tidoust> ... And then we can do more structuring.
19:50:22 <tidoust> Michael: Good discussion on the approaches for encouraging the adoption of SDW Best Practices.
19:50:44 <tidoust> ... One of the other topics is timing of future meetings
19:50:51 <tidoust> Topic: Timing of future meetings
19:51:02 <tidoust> Michael: This may not be the best timing for everyone.
19:51:19 <tidoust> ... What are people's feelings about the best time and frequency of these group meetings?
19:51:58 <ChrisLittle_> +1 to monthly intermediate to plenaries at same time slot
19:52:00 <tidoust> Linda: I think the best time is a little bit later, maybe 1-2 hours later than this if you think of people joining all around the world. 8:00 UTC.
19:52:11 <billroberts> q+
19:52:12 <josephabhayaratna> +1
19:52:14 <tidoust> ... If you choose a different week than the plenary, it should work.
19:52:44 <tidoust> Michael: Plenary one week, stats another, this one would be another one.
19:52:47 <tidoust> ack billroberts
19:53:28 <tidoust> Bill: Two hours in one night is probably more than what we can handle after a day of work. At the moment, we're planning for stats call once every 2 weeks, but we might adjust that later on.
19:53:37 <MichaelGordon> +1
19:53:59 <ChrisLittle_> +1  bill
19:54:06 <tidoust> ... It's easy to keep track of a single day and time for all the calls of the group in any case. Swapping topics each week is good.
19:54:15 <tidoust> Michael: Looking at calendar, here.
19:55:21 <tidoust> ... Wednesdays, 8pm UTC monthly meetings. Next call on 13th December?
19:55:33 <Linda> +1
19:55:38 <tidoust> Bill: Two weeks offset from the plenary call seems good to me.
19:55:41 <ChrisLittle_> +1
19:56:22 <ChrisLittle_> apologies will still be in NZ
19:56:30 <tidoust> Michael: OK, that sounds good.
19:57:16 <billroberts> sounds good to me
19:57:27 <tidoust> ... Definitely going with the monthly meeting, probably on the 13th for next call.
19:57:55 <tidoust> ... I will take up the action of putting something in GitHub and I will pass that around into the wider group.
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19:58:40 <tidoust> ... In the next call, we can have some detailed discussion on the activities that we've started to discuss here.
19:58:40 <tidoust> ... Thank you all!
19:58:41 <billroberts> nothing more from me
19:59:02 <tidoust> Jo: I think I'm going to miss half of the next meeting.
19:59:10 <tidoust> Chris: Won't be around either.
19:59:20 <ChrisLittle_> bye
19:59:26 <tidoust> RRSagent, draft minutes v2
19:59:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/29-sdwbp-minutes.html tidoust
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21:29:29 <tidoust> RRSAgent, bye
21:29:29 <RRSAgent> I see no action items