15:42:09 RRSAgent has joined #lvtf 15:42:09 logging to https://www.w3.org/2017/11/09-lvtf-irc 15:42:11 RRSAgent, make logs public 15:42:14 Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 15:42:14 Date: 09 November 2017 16:05:14 laura has joined #lvtf 16:08:43 me too. 16:19:30 steverep has joined #lvtf 16:20:48 Hey folks, let me know if and when you might be on WebEx 16:23:21 It looks like jim and I are on WebEx now 16:24:08 Thanks, Laura. I should be able to join shortly. 16:24:25 Okay. 16:26:01 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/understanding_SC/results 16:27:18 Accepted WCAG 2.1 SC: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Accepted_WCAG_2.1_SC 16:33:24 shawn has joined #lvtf 16:34:53 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-10 16:35:04 Hi Alastairc and Allanj -- It looks like there is not a polycom in your room (Boardroom 2) 16:35:26 I have informed the staff so hopefully there will be soon 16:35:45 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2017OctDec/0313.html 16:36:08 Overview of current comments: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2017OctDec/0313.html 16:36:34 Hi shawn 16:37:53 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Special:RecentChanges 16:39:07 Comment Summary 1-4-10: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-10 16:39:30 scribe: allanj 16:40:49 topic: content on hover 16:41:00 proposals made. CfC requested 16:41:51 present+ Laura 16:41:51 discussion bullet 1 16:42:00 Visible Trigger 16:42:02 Either the additional content does not obscure any essential content within the triggering user interface component, or the additional content can be closed or repositioned by the user; 16:43:32 sr: discussion on repositioning. that is not the point of the SC. got some clarity on repositioning. When is repositioning ok when the other conditions cannot be met. 16:44:13 sr: dismissing hover content is still a bit of concern 16:45:04 ... use case - error messages on validation. should not be an issue. 16:46:04 Nov 6 Content on hover or focus AG minutes: https://www.w3.org/2017/11/06-ag-minutes.html#item07 16:46:30 https://www.w3.org/2017/11/06-ag-minutes.html#item05 16:47:43 Plain language transformation of 1st bullet: The additional content can be dismissed by the user without moving focus or hover, unless the infromation is critical or it doesn't obscrure anything. 16:50:32 channeling Al Gilman - Author proposes, user disposes. 16:51:40 or information is an input error. 16:52:17 sr: could turn it into SC language 16:52:57 sr: bullet 2 change handle to "hoverable" 16:54:19 Issue #565: SC Content on Hover or Focus: Hover/Focus to Hoverable/Persistent: https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/565 16:55:13 sr: bullet 3, should appear on hover. on focus is covered by 2.1.1. removed reference to how the hover content is triggered. just say that hover content is persistent. 17:00:56 sr: discussion on exception - tooltip 17:03:31 scott has joined #lvtf 17:03:41 Laura: Would have liked title attribute be included but know that it will liklely be pushed top sliver. 17:03:58 AG discussed exception at some length. Some folks take position that if SC is important, there should be no exception. We know others disagree. 17:04:55 s/top sliver./to sliver./ 17:05:00 LVTF can simply take position that we'll accept it either way, but obviously prefer it without the exception. 17:05:15 +1 17:07:07 rrsagent, make minutes 17:07:07 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/09-lvtf-minutes.html laura 17:08:27 Roy has joined #lvtf 17:10:26 zakim, who is here? 17:10:26 Present: Jim, JohnR, ScottM, Shawn, Laura, JohnRochford, Glenda, Erich, SteveRepsher 17:10:29 On IRC I see Roy, scott, shawn, steverep, laura, RRSAgent, alastairc, allanj, Zakim, trackbot 17:11:01 present- JohnR, Shawn 17:11:13 present+ Shawn 17:12:34 Present+ Roy 17:12:53 jeanne has joined #lvtf 17:13:21 Roy_ has joined #lvtf 17:14:39 We just lost the phone Alastair is working on it 17:17:19 Is this thing on? 17:17:28 @title is a large issue for browsers - @title can be anywhere, not always actionable, how to separate @title nav from link/form nav, etc. bugs filed for years. 17:17:51 sr: no resolution from AG - lots of churn and discussion though 17:18:08 can you not hwar us? 17:18:08 We hear you 17:20:22 We're trying Scott's computer, with my speaker. 17:21:00 Yes, we can hear you. 17:22:27 rrsagent, make minutes 17:22:27 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/09-lvtf-minutes.html laura 17:23:22 review discussion of 1.4.14 17:24:56 https://www.w3.org/2017/11/09-lvtf-minutes.html 17:25:22 AG minutes: : https://www.w3.org/2017/11/06-ag-minutes.html#item05 17:25:22 https://www.w3.org/2017/11/06-ag-minutes.html#item05 17:25:28 present+SteveRepsher 17:27:54 proposed resolution: LVTF believes that SC 1.4.14 is important for accessibility for people with low vision, with or without the exception for "tooltips" 17:30:10 ac: from minutes... none web technologies. 17:30:40 sm: proposal seems reasonable 17:30:45 laura: +1 17:31:45 +1, perhaps with a comment that we'll probably get comments that title should be exempted from other people! 17:31:52 sm: concern, if we remove exception, from testing side, if they use title then have to educate tester about title use 17:33:44 proposed resolution: LVTF believes that SC 1.4.14 is important for accessibility for people with low vision, with or without the EXCEPTION. 17:34:31 + 17:34:34 +1 17:34:34 +1 17:34:35 +1 17:34:36 +1 17:34:39 =1 17:34:42 +1 17:35:14 erich: +1 17:35:36 RESOLUTION: LVTF believes that SC 1.4.14 is important for accessibility for people with low vision, with or without the EXCEPTION. 17:38:01 rrsagent, make minutes 17:38:01 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/09-lvtf-minutes.html allanj 17:39:17 rrsagent, make minutes 17:39:17 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/09-lvtf-minutes.html laura 17:42:15 RESOLUTION: LVTF believes that SC 1.4.14 is important for accessibility for people with low vision, with or without the EXCEPTION. 17:42:29 https://www.w3.org/2017/11/09-lvtf-irc 17:43:57 ac: what is status of issues on Github. 17:44:16 sr: several are ready to close. have reported to AWK 17:44:34 Open Issues: https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%7Ecomment-content-on-hover-or-focus 17:45:02 ... there are some related to bullet 1. if the new proposed wording is accepted those comments should be resolved. 17:45:14 ac: Repositioning? 17:45:52 sr: discussion on Monday. think it is resolved. discussion continuing on "dismissing" tooltip. 17:46:36 ... discuss usecase of megamenu, also, error messages on inline form validation. 17:47:19 ... propose Plain language transformation of 1st bullet: The additional content can be dismissed by the user without moving focus or hover, unless the infromation is critical or it doesn't obscrure anything. 17:48:33 sr: several issues about bullet 1. 17:49:23 proposal resolves GV comment, and TPG comments and SR comments. 17:50:03 ac: bullet 1 handle "visible trigger" perhaps change to "dismissable trigger" 17:50:34 Issue #565: SC Content on Hover or Focus: Hover/Focus to Hoverable/Persistent: https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/565 17:51:00 I think just "dismissable", but that's highlighlited by my spell checker :-/ 17:51:39 Dismissable: The user can dismiss the additional content without moving pointer hover or keyboard focus, unless the information communicates an input error or the additional content does not obscure other content. 17:53:32 Example for zoom: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-10 17:56:22 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-14 17:58:39 Glenda has joined #lvtf 18:01:29 Here the pull request for bullets 2 and 3: http://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/hoverable-and-persistent/guidelines/#content-on-hover-or-focus 18:04:16 look here https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-14 18:06:29 sm: does hoverable imply that popup content disappears when mouse moves 18:07:49 ac: if map, hover over part of it. can I dismiss the content without moving mouse. then move mouse out of and back into object to see popup again. 18:08:31 ... mouse in same position does not retrigger popup 18:08:33 s/can I dismiss the content without moving mouse/I can dismiss the content without moving mouse 18:10:04 sr: are you being technology specific. mouseover, mousemove. 18:11:13 ac: do we need to be explicit about permanance of dismissal in the SC or cover it in understanding doc. Ok with understanding. 18:12:10 scott: popup does not reappear without explicit action by user. 18:12:21 ac: happy with understanding 18:12:51 ac: question on persistence... 18:13:38 sr: may be conflicting things with hover and focus. or timing issues - time delay on appearance 18:14:10 ac: persistence may be an issue with hover menus. 18:14:40 scott: tooltip should disappear when you mouse out 18:15:08 sr: implied, a dismissal action is removing the trigger stimulus. 18:17:43 discussion of hoverable bullet 18:18:23 original: Focus: Popup content remains visible while any of its components, including the trigger, have focus. 18:19:47 I just updated the hooverable line 18:19:57 hoverable 18:22:53 ac: hover stuff should remain until user dismisses content. -- this sounds too narrow 18:23:27 ja: user dismisses - hit esc, move focus, move mouse off the trigger and popup content 18:24:34 ac: is user moving mouse off trigger and popup an explicit action? 18:24:35 jeanne has joined #lvtf 18:25:04 sr: yes. if not in understanding then will add meaning of explicit action. 18:26:49 scott: hover menus are difficult to read and navigate with navigation. the trigger will be words, but not the actual "box" around the words. 18:27:46 ... difficult when using mouse as a reading guide -- disrupts reading and or trigger content 18:28:08 ac: covered as much as possible in hoverable bullet. 18:29:02 Thanks everyone. 18:29:04 break for 10 min 18:29:41 Need to step away perhaps longer than 10 18:42:26 "explicit action" is used ... but NOT defined, in the Understanding doc 18:47:51 laura has joined #lvtf 18:48:55 Roy has joined #lvtf 19:00:04 Glenda has joined #lvtf 19:00:42 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-14 19:00:53 Glenda has left #lvtf 19:01:06 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/understanding_SC/ 19:01:40 Glenda has joined #lvtf 19:03:37 Colloquy on the mac is a good IRC client 19:05:58 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-14#Proposed 19:06:40 A Diff of the two versions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/index.php?title=Comment_Summary_1-4-14&diff=8487&oldid=8485 19:08:19 +1 on Hoverable :) 19:08:29 jim: +1 19:10:09 +1 19:12:28 +1 19:12:30 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-10 19:12:34 Topic: Zoom Content 1.4.10 19:14:04 ac: worried about 2 comments. proposed new wording. but not explicit about horizontal scrolling. easier to understand. 19:15:08 ... some push back on 400% bigger for all content. BBC headings get huge. but on Mobile - the headings shrink but other content gets bigger 19:16:15 proposed this becomes reflow, and use 1.4.4 200%. 19:16:26 Latest SC text: Reflow: Content can be presented at a width equivalent to 320 CSS pixels without loss of information or functionality, and without requiring scrolling in two dimensions, except for parts of the content which require two-dimensional layout for usage or meaning. 19:17:25 AWK_ has joined #lvtf 19:18:55 scott: reflow is good. 19:19:34 0Have comments but lost audio! Un momento... 19:23:27 sm: mobile apps switch between app and web page and I loose functionality or interface keeps changing 19:24:10 ac: we are solving that problem. functionality must be there. 19:25:14 ... needs to work across technology 19:26:13 sr: not much issue with new language. change from "content" to "information" 19:26:39 ac: came from AWK, make it clear that content can change but functionality is still there 19:27:34 sr: can we make zooming part incremental. perhaps zoom in steps. 19:28:13 gs: texting for every increment is difficult. Made it a technique. 19:28:48 ac: people pushed back on putting the increments in the techniques. 19:29:36 sr: not meeting the user need 19:31:22 sr: can set 1 breakpoint at 320. want more flexibility 19:32:48 gs: 80% of developers will be responsive through the range. make sure it works at the 2 extremes and hope for folks to do the range. 19:34:09 ac: haven't come across any site that wants to do on 2 breakpoints 19:38:16 ac: PDF comments - litany of issues. reflow is being worked on and should push on. will have implementation in html and epub. 19:40:22 ac: as a redesign interim, create alternate conforming version that is the mobile view. 19:41:29 sr: would feel better if we have a note that note recommending only one breakpoint. 19:42:28 ja: Add to understanding document - should have explanation in understanding what is being tested. 19:43:01 sr: can imply... but SC only says we will test at 320 19:43:11 gs: yes 19:44:06 sm: when talking with clients we agree to test desktop view and mobile view. we know what we are testing against. 19:44:39 ac: will create sufficient techniques. and add responsive design resources. 19:45:36 sr: don't need to mention scrolling. just have to fit in 320 19:46:11 ac: but multicolumn content issue. want explicit all content. spent hours on this yesterday. 19:46:58 ac: please edit https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-10 for additional comments thoughts. 19:47:50 topic: Understading zoom 19:47:52 https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/zoom-content/understanding/21/zoom-content.html 19:48:24 s/Understading/Understanding 19:54:45 I can put in a couple of short videos, like from this article: https://alastairc.ac/2015/10/zoom-for-fixed-and-responsive-sites/ 19:55:10 discussion of example 3. 19:55:37 ac: a video may be better. 19:56:16 sm: put them in a box with a border 19:57:11 ac: the styling of the final doc will override any fanciness that we do. there may be some embed files may be better 19:58:24 sm: use a long paragraph. 20:03:27 perhaps a few more exceptions for complex graphs (in color contrast). What color is used as a scale. Like on a topographical map, or you are displaying contour map, or a temperature map. The COLOR defines the value. Where gradient of color is used as part of the diplay of required and there is no other way of doing it. 20:03:29 See https://weather.com/maps/ustemperaturemap 20:06:51 http://www.ilight.com/en/ 20:06:56 Example from steve, video on the hompage 20:09:58 use with nocoffee 20:10:38 sr: interference between 2 object. can contrast with background, but not with each other 20:10:58 interference with two things on a chart…you can’t deal with two lines that continually cross each other on a plot. You can only contrast with the background. 20:11:07 Also 3-d shading. 20:11:23 ... 3d lighting. ambient light with shading to get perspective 20:12:31 gs: when does it come into scope... criticality. what about platform issues. ... high contrast mode. 20:12:50 ac: is it UA issue or software issue. 20:14:12 ... principle of testing lines crossing each other. delete the bits that cross. 20:14:30 check out this video to see high contrast 3d rendering…(go to 1:30 to see the high contrast 3d) 20:14:32 sr: scatter plots. circles and squares. 20:14:41 ... and overlapping 20:41:03 steverep has joined #lvtf 20:41:31 present+SteveRepsher 20:50:28 rrsagent, make minutes 20:50:28 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/09-lvtf-minutes.html steverep 21:00:42 rrsagent, listen 21:01:04 rrsagent, make minutes 21:01:04 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/09-lvtf-minutes.html allanj 21:02:24 Still no minutes 21:05:44 color contrast picker with transparency https://ryanhemphill.github.io/contrast-colorblind-colorpicker/ 21:06:30 contrast ratio with transparency full screen http://leaverou.github.io/contrast-ratio/#white-on-hsla%28200%2C0%25%2C0%25%2C.5%29 21:06:57 marcjohlic has joined #lvtf 21:10:18 laura has joined #lvtf 21:11:13 gowerm has joined #lvtf 21:12:15 We're going to join the call again now 21:13:06 Kirkwood has joined #LVTF 21:13:59 present+ MikeGower 21:15:53 FYI. I started a page for adapting text comments while in other meetings here at work. 21:15:59 It is at: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-13 21:16:17 Weeeee’re back 21:16:46 In the room we have Scott, Glenda, JohnR, AWK, and me. 21:17:31 present+ marcjohlic 21:20:14 AWK the man the myth the legend 21:20:29 AWK has joined #lvtf 21:21:02 I'll do a screenshare if we get to examples of things, but for most web pages we'll post links here 21:21:32 Three issues: 1.4.11, 1.4.12, 1.4.13 21:21:32 scribe: allanj 21:21:44 all Low Vision Issues 21:23:01 Comments: https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues?utf8=✓&q=is%3Aissue%20is%3Aopen%20label%3A~comment-graphics-contrast%20 21:23:14 laura started a page for adapting text comments It is at: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-13 21:23:20 I won’t be abe to join the call and will have to drop off of IRC in a few minutes. I started a page for adapting text comments while in other meetings here at work. https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-13 21:23:40 topic: Graphics Contrast 1.4.11 21:23:52 Thanks Jim. 21:25:24 The visual presentation of graphical objects that are essential for understanding the content or functionality have a contrast ratio of at least 4.5:1 against the adjacent color(s), except for the following: 21:25:25 Thicker - For graphical objects with a minimum width and height of at least 3 CSS pixels, the graphic has a contrast ratio of at least 3:1; 21:25:27 Sensory - Non-text content that is primarily intended to create a visual sensory experience has no contrast requirement; 21:25:28 Logotypes - Graphics that are part of a logo or brand name have no minimum contrast requirement; 21:25:30 Essential - A particular presentation of the graphic is essential to the information being conveyed. 21:25:58 gs: suggest examples include photos of real life and art. 21:26:42 ... photos and art 21:26:58 what does art mean? 21:27:21 gs: use dictionary def. ... perhaps fine art 21:27:30 laura has left #lvtf 21:27:51 q+ 21:27:59 gs: read def from online dict., this is our intent 21:28:35 ack s 21:28:43 go ahead steve? 21:28:47 Fine Art - a visual art considered to have been created primarily for aesthetic purposes and judged for its beauty and meaningfulness, specifically, painting, sculpture, drawing, watercolor, graphics, and architecture. 21:29:16 gs: examples include photography and fine art. 21:29:18 How about listing these: specific sensory experience, pure decoration, depictions of reality? 21:29:22 so the sensory bullet finishes ... such as photography and fine art. 21:29:41 so static images! 21:30:24 awk: review comments https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue%20is%3Aopen%20label%3A~comment-graphics-contrast%20 21:30:26 https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue 21:30:37 not that 21:31:18 #549 - https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/549 21:31:31 exception for photo... 21:32:04 Sensory: Non-text content that is primarily intended to create a visual sensory experience has no contrast requirement, such as photography and fine art; 21:32:22 comment. we will add exception for photo. perhaps add to sensory 21:33:05 sr: depictions of reality, need to back up with other stuff. cartoons, etc. 21:33:31 ac: could use a cartoon as a button would have to pass. 21:34:17 gs: illustrations, cartoons... necessary for understanding the content. will add these to the Understanding document. 21:36:21 awk: 'essential' is used correctly in 4.11 21:37:03 sr: photos should not be under essential. should not decide 21:37:20 ac: had many comments on photos. leave it in. 21:38:08 awk: presentation on rules of the road. a stop sign is essential, and needs to look like a stopsign even if an illustration. 21:41:27 Updates on wiki page: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-11 21:42:58 Sensory: Non-text content that is primarily intended to create a visual sensory experience such as photography or fine art has no contrast requirement; 21:43:40 sr: phots should not be lumped in. not used as the meaning in 1.1.1. 21:44:14 ... can't create equivelent alternative text because people looking will see it differently. 21:44:55 awk: reads 1.1.1, picture is worth 1000 words. attempting to create an experience 21:45:55 sr: hope my profile picture does not create a sensory experience. photos should not create a sensory experience 21:46:52 gs: we are talking about an alternative for the image in 1.1.1, in 4.11 you can't require contrast. 21:47:48 jeanne has joined #lvtf 21:49:34 extended discussion of photos, illustrations, etc - what is generic term, and under what circumstances us contrast not required. to fix wording in Sensory bullet 21:50:42 awk: need to work on this. 21:50:53 https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/534 21:51:54 this has been answered and waiting for a response. 21:53:39 https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/533 21:54:09 AC answered. 21:54:21 awk: Leave OPEN 21:54:30 https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/525 21:56:48 awk: requested response from commenter on reply from AC 21:57:02 https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/523 21:57:41 https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#multimedia-alt-textdef 22:00:01 gs: thanks for comment, added clarification in Understanding 22:01:02 https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/522 22:01:15 awk: screen shot is a photo. 22:02:32 Roy has joined #lvtf 22:04:37 Need to drop off and go home 22:04:39 mg: will review and close 22:06:00 shawn has joined #lvtf 22:06:12 mg: having a border around things helps folks see things 22:07:17 awk: icon of printer with no border, does this SC have an outer boundary that contrasts with background? 22:07:58 gs: the parts that are required for understanding must have necessary contrast. 22:09:02 mg: if you are conveying meaning. then there must be proper contrast for image to convey meaning 22:10:15 ... if just a black button it would need a text label because the black button has no meaning 22:13:46 the border on buttons define clickable area 22:15:11 awk: visual indicators of UI components,... going to get complicated. focus or hover may cause a visual indicator to appear. 22:16:32 the distinction is very confusing between graphical component and visual indicator. 22:16:53 q+ 22:17:24 q+ to say is 1.4.12 be restricted to outline? 22:17:48 kathy walbin: had comments about why no contrast levels for mobile 22:18:59 ack gower 22:18:59 gowerm, you wanted to say is 1.4.12 be restricted to outline? 22:19:02 visual indicators - focus, border, background (contrast edge of solid color button) 22:19:35 mg: is 1.4.12 all about border. can it be restricted? 22:20:36 mg: in all the situations, want to know where the boundary/border of the control 22:20:58 awk: to know what is focused, what is hovered, etc. 22:21:44 Understanding UIC Contrast = The intent of this Success Criterion is to provide enough contrast for interactive user interface components, form field borders, focus and selection indicators so they can be perceived by people with moderately low vision (who do not use contrast-enhancing assistive technology). 22:21:46 plain language 1.4.11 - covers internal contast of a graphic. can you tell what the graphic is. 22:22:06 ... 1.4.12 is about boundaries/border of a graphic 22:23:28 mg: what are the outliers that don't meet 1.4.11 and 1.4.12 22:23:38 ac. you have graphics or you have controls. 22:23:56 gs: graphics are easy. author has control,. 22:24:26 ... controls are an issue. Browser controls are not covered. 22:24:53 mg: bottom line if author controlled the creation then its covered. 22:25:10 JF has joined #LVTF 22:25:28 ... would like a 1 line explanation of each SC at the top of each understanding doc 22:25:39 rrsagent, make minutes 22:25:39 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/09-lvtf-minutes.html allanj 22:25:56 present+ JF 22:28:39 mg: on 1.4.12 rename to Component Border Contrast 22:29:04 ac: could be border or line, or edge and some have no borders 22:29:41 mg: so a plus sign with no border is ok? 22:29:56 awk: we are not requiring a border 22:30:44 gs: if the designer does not put a border on a control for anyone then it passes 22:33:48 mg: in one of the graphics - a plus sign. if they add a border, it must meet contrast, if no border then + sign must meet contrast 22:34:30 atai has joined #lvtf 22:38:24 The visual presentation of graphical information has a contrast ratio of at least 4.5:1 for each of the following: 22:38:24 • Controls: focus indicators, borders, and graphical information used to indicate state(?) for active 22:38:24 user interface components; 22:38:24 • Parts of graphic objects required for the understanding the content; 22:38:25 Except: 22:38:25 • Thicker: Graphical objects with a minimum width and height of at least 3 CSS pixels, the graphic has a contrast ratio of at least 3:1; 22:38:25 • Sensory: Non-text content that is primarily intended to create a visual sensory experience has no contrast requirement; 22:38:25 • Logotypes: Graphics that are part of a logo or brand name have no minimum contrast requirement; 22:38:25 • Essential: A particular presentation of the graphic is essential to the information being conveyed. 22:48:06 gs: frost your components with contrasting color (1px outline surrounding the component) 22:49:07 Parts of graphics required for the understanding the content; 22:51:25 CUrrently being debated: 22:51:27 The visual presentation of graphical information has a contrast ratio of at least 3:1 for each of the following: 22:51:27 • Controls: focus indicators, borders, and graphical information used to indicate state for active user interface components; 22:51:27 • Parts of graphics required to understand the content; 22:51:27 Except: 22:51:28 • Sensory: Non-text content that is primarily intended to create a visual sensory experience; 22:51:28 • Logotypes: Graphics that are part of a logo or brand; 22:51:29 • Essential: A particular presentation of the graphic is essential to the information being conveyed. 23:02:17 jeanne has joined #lvtf 23:04:03 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-11 23:12:23 Email from Bruce that promted the sensory one: Parts of graphic objects required to understand the content; 23:12:29 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2016OctDec/0713.html 23:17:50 atai has joined #lvtf 23:32:59 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/sc-status/ 23:34:40 atai has joined #lvtf 23:36:13 perhaps a few more exceptions for complex graphs (in color contrast). What color is used as a scale. Like on a topographical map, or you are displaying contour map, or a temperature map. The COLOR defines the value. Where gradient of color is used as part of the diplay of required and there is no other way of doing it. 23:36:13 [12:03pm] Glenda: See https://weather.com/maps/ustemperaturemap 23:36:14 [12:06pm] Glenda: http://www.ilight.com/en/ 00:00:11 Roy has joined #lvtf 00:01:51 Remaining SC needing work on comments: 00:02:08 1.3.4 (AA) Purpose of Controls 00:02:22 1.3.5 (AAA) Contextual Information 00:02:42 1.4.13 (AA) Adapting Text 00:03:15 2.2.6 (A) Accessible Authentication 00:03:27 2.2.9 (AAA) Animation from Interactions 00:03:58 2.5.2 (AA) Accidental Activation 00:04:16 3.2.6 (AA) Change of Content 00:04:46 Go here https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/sc-status/ 00:07:10 j_kirkwood has joined #LVTF 00:07:19 Go here https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/sc-status/ 00:22:35 atai has joined #lvtf 01:27:46 Roy has joined #lvtf 01:31:52 atai has left #lvtf 02:32:54 jeanne has joined #lvtf 02:39:21 AWK has joined #lvtf 04:24:25 AWK has joined #lvtf 04:26:07 rrsagent, draft minutes 04:26:07 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/09-lvtf-minutes.html AWK 04:49:33 steverep has joined #lvtf 04:49:37 present+SteveRepsher 04:53:50 trackbot, end meeting 04:53:50 Zakim, list attendees 04:53:50 As of this point the attendees have been Jim, JohnR, ScottM, Shawn, Laura, JohnRochford, Glenda, Erich, SteveRepsher, Roy, MikeGower, marcjohlic, JF 04:53:58 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 04:53:58 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/09-lvtf-minutes.html trackbot 04:53:59 RRSAgent, bye 04:53:59 I see no action items