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16:15:47 <tidoust> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:17:39 <tidoust> Meeting: Second Screen WG TPAC F2F - Day 1/2
16:17:43 <tidoust> Chair: Anssi
16:18:58 <tidoust> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Second_Screen/Meetings/Nov_2017_F2F#Agenda
16:31:16 <tidoust> tidoust has changed the topic to: Second Screen WG TPAC F2F - https://www.w3.org/wiki/Second_Screen/Meetings/Nov_2017_F2F
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17:07:08 <tidoust> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
17:07:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/06-webscreens-minutes.html tidoust
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17:12:02 <RachelNabors> RachelNabors has joined #webscreens
17:12:07 <RachelNabors> Howdy.
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17:21:09 <anssik> ScribeNick: anssik
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17:24:56 <anssik> Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen(Intel), , Mark_Foltz(Google), Tomoyuki_Shimizu(KDDI), Shih-Chiang_Chien(Mozilla), Mounir_Lamouri(Google), Rachel_Nabors(Microsoft), Geunhyung_Kim(Dong-Eui_University, Louay_Bassbouss(Fraunhofer)
17:25:45 <anssik> Topic: Welcome
17:26:57 <anssik> rrsagent, generate minutes v2
17:26:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/06-webscreens-minutes.html anssik
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17:28:01 <anssik> anssik: Welcome to the Second Screen WG and CG meeting
17:28:24 <anssik> ... WG is working on two APIs, Presentation API and Remote Playback API
17:28:24 <Geun_hyung> Geun_hyung has joined #webscreens
17:28:24 <_tomoyuki> _tomoyuki has joined #webscreens
17:28:58 <anssik> ... CG is working protocols that underpin these APIs
17:29:13 <Louay> Present+ Louay_Bassbouss
17:29:21 <anssik> Topic: Introductions
17:30:00 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: editor of Presentation API, work at Google and on Chrome
17:30:25 <anssik> _tomoyuki: Tomoyuki from KDDI Japanese telco
17:31:23 <anssik> schien: Shih-Chiang from Mozilla Taiwan, previously Firefox OS, now desktop Firefox browser, working on Second Screen tech, APIs, and protocols
17:32:25 <anssik> anssik: Anssi from Intel, Chairing this WG and CG
17:33:01 <anssik> RachelNabors: Rachel from Microsoft, working on EdgeHTML rendering engine
17:34:24 <anssik> Geun_hyung: Geunhyung from Dong-Eui University, interested in Second Screen applications as an academic research topic
17:35:41 <anssik> Louay: Louay from Fraunhofer doing applied research, Presentation API and Open Screen Protocol focus, working with 90 students on experiments
17:36:50 <anssik> mounir: Mounir from Google, sw engineer at Google, working on Presentation API on Chrome, and Remote Playback API
17:37:05 <anssik> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
17:37:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/06-webscreens-minutes.html anssik
17:38:01 <anssik> Topic: Remote Playback API
17:38:50 <anssik> -> https://github.com/w3c/remote-playback/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3AF2F Remote Playback API F2F issues
17:40:21 <anssik> -> https://github.com/w3c/remote-playback/issues/92 Remote Playback API test automation #92
17:40:26 <anssik> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
17:40:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/06-webscreens-minutes.html anssik
17:42:06 <anssik> mounir: we should probably have a test framework to override two values: device capabilities and device connection state
17:43:07 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: this area of testing is pretty new, should do this with the simpler API, perhaps Remote Playback API is simpler that Presentation API and could be easier start
17:45:51 <anssik> mounir: w-p-t is the main dependency, we do not have simulation of API states in w-p-t
17:46:23 <anssik> ... Philipp is a good contact for w-p-t
17:46:48 <anssik> anssik: we have invited Philipp to this meeting later today, will touch this topic
17:47:42 <anssik> anssik: we would need something similar to Presentatation Testing API for the Remote Playback API too
17:48:56 <anssik> -> https://github.com/w3c/remote-playback/issues/88 Remote playback device capabilities not always a subset of local playback device's
17:50:37 <anssik> anssik: There are two classes of interoperability issues discussed in #41
17:50:43 <anssik> ... a feature X is not working locally, but can work remotely
17:50:49 <anssik> ... a feature X is not working remotely, but can work locally
17:50:54 <anssik> ... This issue is about the former. The issue #41 is (mainly) about the latter.
17:52:33 <anssik> RESOLUTION: close issue #88 since no use cases identified supporting the feature
17:53:08 <anssik> -> https://github.com/w3c/remote-playback/issues/46 Should rendering behavior of the remote-d media element be specified? #46
17:54:05 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: two distict issues: what the local user sees when the video is remoted, what sees in place of the video element when the playback is stopped
17:54:13 <anssik> ... think should not render in two places at the same time
17:54:37 <anssik> ... second issue, if there are attributes that reflect the render state, how to reflect that at the remote end
17:56:24 <anssik> mounir: propose to scope this issue to UI implications
17:56:39 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: keep this informative in the spec
17:56:56 <anssik> ... then issue #41 is about normative language
17:57:50 <anssik> ACTION: mounir to add informative test to the spec that addressed issue #46
17:58:30 <anssik> -> https://github.com/w3c/remote-playback/issues/41 [Meta] Guidance for HTMLMediaElement, HTMLAudioElement, HTMLVideoElement behaviors during remoting #41
17:58:54 <anssik> mounir: no new information since last F2F
17:59:03 <anssik> ... from our own implementation we have some new ideas
17:59:56 <anssik> ... every single attribute SHOULD be exposed, the spec cannot have any MUSTs
18:03:51 <anssik> https://w3c.github.io/remote-playback/#media-commands-and-media-playback-state
18:04:15 <anssik> anssik: anyone interested in improving the media commands and media playback state state section?
18:05:09 <anssik> ACTION: mfoltzgoogle to add normative language to the spec around local playback state to address issue #41
18:05:59 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: the spec should address the local playback commands
18:06:31 <anssik> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
18:06:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/06-webscreens-minutes.html anssik
18:07:33 <anssik> Present+ Steven_Konig(Google)
18:08:21 <Stephen> Stephen has joined #webscreens
18:09:02 <Stephen> Although I've been working in this area for a bit, this is my first TPAC. I work closely with Mark Foltz, on the product side of Chrome, to implement our second screen support in the browser.
18:11:10 <RachelNabors> ScribeNick: mfoltzgoogle_
18:11:36 <Louay> how to scribe https://www.w3.org/2008/04/scribe.html
18:12:33 <anssik> ScribeNick: mfoltzgoogle
18:12:37 <RachelNabors> ScribeNick: mfoltzgoogle
18:12:54 <mfoltzgoogle> TOPIC: Rechartering
18:13:14 <anssik> -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-secondscreen/2017Oct/0033.html Second Screen Working Group Charter extended
18:14:31 <anssik> Group-level advancements since TPAC 2016 in Lisbon
18:14:40 <anssik> 1) Revised CR of Presentation API
18:14:48 <anssik> -> https://www.w3.org/standards/history/presentation-api Presentation API publication history
18:15:59 <anssik> Changelog: https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/CR-presentation-api-20170601/#changes-since-14-july-2016
18:16:11 <mfoltzgoogle> anssik: Well documented changelog, what happened in a year
18:16:37 <mfoltzgoogle> anssik: Improved the algorithms, minimal API changes
18:16:49 <mfoltzgoogle> anssik: Restricted API to the secure contexts
18:16:55 <mfoltzgoogle> s/the//
18:17:26 <anssik> 2) CR of Remote Playback API
18:17:38 <anssik> -> https://www.w3.org/standards/history/remote-playback Remote Playback API publication history
18:18:37 <mfoltzgoogle> anssik: Fast track.  May do a revised CR if there are substantial changes.
18:18:51 <anssik> 3) Open Screen Protocol work started
18:18:53 <mfoltzgoogle> anssik: Editorship handed off from Anton to Mounir.
18:19:57 <anssik> 4) Charter extended by EOY
18:20:19 <mfoltzgoogle> anssik: Open Screen addresses need for end to end interop.  Interest from TV groups.
18:20:31 <mfoltzgoogle> TOPIC: Charter 2018
18:20:39 <anssik> Initial scope proposal:
18:22:05 <mfoltzgoogle> anssik: 1. Taking existing standards to REC
18:22:16 <mfoltzgoogle> anssik: 2. Finalizing test suites
18:22:29 <mfoltzgoogle> anssik: 3. New level 2 features with well defined scope
18:22:43 <mfoltzgoogle> anssik: 4. Open Screen Protocol
18:23:35 <anssik> anssik: seeking feedback in particular on Open Screen Protocol relationship
18:24:02 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: need feedback from implementers of the web platform and networking protocol experts
18:25:04 <anssik> ... we're in prototyping phase now protocols, would prefer keeping them in CG going into 2018
18:25:21 <anssik> ... CG has platform implementers providing requirements
18:26:35 <anssik> ... propose having a CG meeting mid-2018 to figure our path to IETF
18:28:23 <anssik> anssik: may make sense to IETF-ify the documents in preparation to expected IETF submissiobn
18:28:32 <anssik> s/submissiobn/submission
18:30:26 <anssik> schien: good idea to use the CG to experiment with the protocols, after more consolidated idea what to propose to IETF, then migrate
18:31:02 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: seconding schien, need to scope down what we have currently, need to come to consensus based on reqs or experiments before advancing to formal standardization
18:32:02 <anssik> ACTION: anssik to create a GH repo for the new Second Screen Working Group Charter
18:32:54 <anssik> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
18:32:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/06-webscreens-minutes.html anssik
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19:12:00 <anssik> scribeNick: anssik
19:12:06 <anssik> Topic: Demos
19:12:09 <anssik> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
19:12:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/06-webscreens-minutes.html anssik
19:12:34 <mfoltzgoogle> First demo is Photowall: https://github.com/GoogleChrome/presentation-api-samples/tree/master/photowall
19:13:00 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: the most complete demo app we have
19:13:09 <anssik> ... last year we showed an early 1-UA mode version
19:13:26 <anssik> ... we launched it in Chrome M58 first
19:13:33 <anssik> [Mark showing a demo]
19:28:32 <mfoltzgoogle> Second demo: Media REmoting
19:28:34 <mfoltzgoogle> Sample URL: https://vimeo.com/239593389
19:28:46 <mfoltzgoogle> Launch tab mirroring to a Chromecast device, then fullscreen video
19:39:05 <mfoltzgoogle> Chrome flag: chrome://flags/#media-remoting
19:43:02 <mfoltzgoogle> Comlink demo: Chrome RPC library that wraps a Presentation Connection.
19:43:03 <mfoltzgoogle> https://github.com/GoogleChromeLabs/comlink/blob/master/docs/examples/presentation-api/index.html
19:45:07 <Louay> Fraunhofer Demo: 360° 24K Video with 4K Field of View on 5 Chromecasts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIxHlR7I8Ho
19:52:30 <anssik> Topic: Presentation API v1
19:53:08 <anssik> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/CR-presentation-api-20170601/ Presentation API
19:53:08 <anssik> Revised CR 01 June 2017
19:53:24 <anssik> -> https://github.com/w3c/presentation-api/issues/406 Presentation API
19:53:24 <anssik> Revised CR tracker
19:56:12 <anssik> schien: 1-UA mode Firefox implementation status
19:56:30 <anssik> ... in Nightly and Aurora channels for Firefox on Android
19:59:09 <anssik> ... the 1-UA mode is restricted to Chromecast, which Mozilla sees as an issue, lower priority to productive 1-UA
20:00:27 <anssik> https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/CR-presentation-api-20170601/#candidate-recommendation-exit-criteria
20:01:44 <anssik> ... a general resource issue for Presentation API
20:03:34 <anssik> ... work on the experimental 2-UA mode implementation has ended
20:05:15 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: question to schien, could the experimental 2-UA mode be resurrected at some later point in the future, considering Open Screen Protocol evolutions
20:05:53 <anssik> schien: our implementation can be used as input for the WebRTC part of it, can share the results from the experiment with the Second Screen CG
20:06:51 <anssik> ... could try to adopt the experimental 2-UA implementation with the Open Screen Protocol
20:11:41 <anssik> -> https://github.com/w3c/presentation-api/issues/266 Presentation API v1 testing meta issue
20:11:50 <anssik> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
20:11:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/06-webscreens-minutes.html anssik
20:11:58 <Zakim> Zakim has left #webscreens
20:15:03 <anssik> _tomoyuki: web-platform-tests are ~complete, missing is the automation API
20:15:30 <Louay> https://tidoust.github.io/presentation-api-testcoverage/
20:15:51 <anssik> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Second_Screen/Implementation_Status#Tests
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20:20:16 <anssik> anssik: any idea whether the failures in https://w3c.github.io/test-results/presentation-api/controlling-ua/all.html are test issues or implementation issues?
20:22:26 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: do w-p-t tests work with cast API?
20:22:52 <mfoltzgoogle> We don't return an answer to getAvailability until we know if devices are available.
20:22:52 <anssik> Louay: yes
20:23:02 <mfoltzgoogle> The delays may result in a timeout.
20:23:28 <mfoltzgoogle> Also, we don't throw NotFoundError since we do discovery when start() is called
20:27:34 <anssik> anssik: looking at https://w3c.github.io/test-results/presentation-api/receiving-ua/all.html Firefox does not implement the receiving UA
20:28:45 <anssik> ACTION: mfoltzgoogle to investigate gaps in the test coverage for Chrome
20:32:08 <anssik> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
20:32:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/06-webscreens-minutes.html anssik
20:35:29 <anssik> Topic: Testing API
20:35:43 <anssik> -> https://github.com/w3c/presentation-api/issues/440 Presentation Testing API
20:36:34 <anssik> Present+ Philipp_Jagenstedt(Google)
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20:37:24 <mfoltzgoogle> testdriver.js: http://web-platform-tests.org/writing-tests/testdriver.html
20:38:16 <anssik> foolip: let's have a look at one of the these tests
20:38:40 <foolip> https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/6897
20:38:45 <foolip> is the PR where this landed
20:39:11 <foolip> https://wpt.fyi/uievents/order-of-events/mouse-events/click-cancel.html
20:39:17 <anssik> [foolip showing a test case for .click]
20:40:20 <anssik> foolip: before there was a button that had to be clicked by a human, now there's a programmatic way to click a button
20:41:59 <anssik> ... the way how this works, there's a Web Driver API that this is the w-p-t integration for it
20:42:09 <anssik> anssik: what is the implementation status of Web Driver API?
20:43:44 <anssik> foolip: all major browsers implement it
20:44:34 <anssik> anssik: what features do we need for Presentation API?
20:45:10 <anssik> -> https://github.com/mfoltzgoogle/presentation-test-api/blob/master/presentation_test_api.md Presentation API Testing API
20:46:20 <anssik> [foolip reviewing the Presentation API Testing API]
20:46:48 <anssik> foolip: PresentationTest interface looks good
20:47:08 <anssik> ... Web Driver API is not the only options, WebUSB did something different
20:47:33 <anssik> -> https://wicg.github.io/webusb/test/ WebUSB Testing API
20:48:06 <anssik> foolip: testing WebUSB is more complicated, Test Driver API would not have worked out there
20:49:24 <anssik> foolip: can web devs use the Presentation API Testing API?
20:50:00 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: we probably will have an implementation in a fixed screen and can run test code in that window
20:50:11 <anssik> foolip: how does that work now, firing synthetic events?
20:50:22 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: now it's more like manual tests
20:50:38 <anssik> ... you have integration testing in Chrome, relies on browser mocking
20:50:50 <anssik> foolip: choosing between Testing API vs. Web Driver API
20:51:12 <anssik> ... pros for Web Driver API: not adding new API surface
20:51:29 <anssik> ... can take inspiration from Permissions
20:51:30 <foolip> https://github.com/w3c/permissions/pull/151 is doing a similar thing, but more complex
20:52:15 <anssik> foolip: can there be multiple screen?
20:52:21 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: yes
20:52:35 <anssik> ... screens have a state associated with them, but useful to have multiple ones
20:52:54 <anssik> ... each screen has an ID
20:53:16 <anssik> foolip: what does selected attribute mean?
20:53:34 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: the user is actually selecting the screen and not canceling it
20:54:18 <anssik> foolip: what are the inputs and outputs of screen selection
20:54:30 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: select a screen or cancel
20:55:17 <anssik> foolip: how to test if a user declines?
20:56:10 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: three outcomes: user selects, user cancels, user sits and waits
20:57:04 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: I wanted to use this Testing API for our existing w-p-t tests, rework them as needed
20:57:31 <foolip> https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/issues/7424 is similar for getUserMedia
20:59:03 <anssik> foolip: what if you postMessage to a fake screen?
20:59:58 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: we'd create a browser tab with a receiving browsing context that receives the message
21:01:31 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: proposing Web Driver extensions, where to add them?
21:02:29 <anssik> foolip: path of least resistance is probably to add them to its own Presentation API Testing API
21:03:04 <foolip> Jon Kereliuk kereliuk@chromium.org is our ChromeDriver guy (for wpt matters)
21:06:45 <foolip> maybe https://w3c.github.io/webdriver/webdriver-spec.html#capabilities will help
21:07:07 <anssik> foolip: is anyone running the manual tests?
21:07:19 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: infrequently, that's why they broke often
21:08:38 <anssik> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:08:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/06-webscreens-minutes.html anssik
21:09:51 <anssik> ACTION: mfoltzgoogle to refine the Presentation API Testing API and come up with a WebDriver compatible spec
21:10:36 <mfoltzgoogle> ACTION: mfoltzgoogle to refine Presentation API Testing API to be a WebDriver compatible spec
21:11:24 <mfoltzgoogle> ACTION: mfoltzgoogle to raise issue about whether fake screen is a "real" screen or a mock screen
21:12:00 <anssik> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:12:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/06-webscreens-minutes.html anssik
21:12:34 <mfoltzgoogle> ACTION: mfoltzgoogle to file issue about whether "fake" screen is a "real" screen or can be a mock screen that responds to messages
21:14:06 <foolip> https://foolip.github.io/day-to-day/ is my toy
21:14:27 <anssik> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:14:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/06-webscreens-minutes.html anssik
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00:11:38 <anssik> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
00:11:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/06-webscreens-minutes.html anssik
00:13:06 <anssik> Topic: Presentation API v2
00:14:20 <anssik> -
00:14:33 <anssik> -> https://github.com/w3c/presentation-api/issues/440 Presentation Testing API
00:15:13 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: the plan is to update the API to be based on Web Driver API
00:15:48 <anssik> ... once we have the API in the Web Driver spec, need review from the Web Driver team (in Chromium)
00:16:17 <anssik> ... make sure we can rewrite the existing test to make use of the new API
00:17:20 <anssik> ... and see how to support both manual and automated tests using the same w-p-t tests
00:19:43 <anssik> anssik: who would like to contribute to the Web Driver-ification of the current test cases?
00:20:09 <anssik> [Louya and Tomoyuki volunteered]
00:21:15 <anssik> Louay: how to test the receiving user agent, if we only have Chromecast receiver? Do we need a fake sender API for testing?
00:21:51 <anssik> ... we know have separately controlling and receiving UA tests
00:22:27 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: if you have Chromecast on the network, then if you simulated user gesture, it is possible to launch a presentation on the Chromecast device
00:23:14 <anssik> ... if you have multiple Chromecasts need an API to force the selection of the actual device
00:24:06 <anssik> schien: isn't it still missing we're not able to verify what happens on the receiver side?
00:24:19 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: isn't still stash functionality?
00:24:44 <anssik> schien: previously we couldn't test message sending on the receiving side
00:24:56 <anssik> ... cannot get message back to the testing page
00:25:06 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: such tests can timeout and thus fail
00:26:04 <anssik> Geun_Hyung: received is only Chromecast?
00:26:30 <anssik> s/received/receiver/
00:27:00 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: should work correctly in 1-UA mode
00:27:09 <anssik> Louay: Android implementation?
00:27:15 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: correct
00:28:23 <anssik> -> https://github.com/w3c/presentation-api/issues/347 Forced 1-UA mode for documents or frames #347
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00:30:18 <anssik> -> https://github.com/mfoltzgoogle/remote-window-api/blob/master/explainer.md Remote Window API
00:31:04 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: 2-UA mode is good for playing video, get it rendered in full fidelity
00:31:12 <anssik> ... 1-UA is most broadly supported
00:31:31 <anssik> ... because we define receiving browsing context be separate, hard  to share resources
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00:32:02 <anssik> ... four use cases problematic for 1-UA mode
00:32:28 <anssik> 1) Third party embeds that require cookies
00:33:32 <anssik> 2) Offline or cannot access internet
00:34:14 <anssik> 3) WSIWYG
00:35:16 <anssik> 4) Interaction, touch or gesture
00:36:11 <anssik> ... to address these issues, proposing a slightly different version of 1-UA mode
00:37:19 <anssik> ... rather than window.open() type, allow same-origin window to be created
00:37:57 <anssik> -> https://github.com/mfoltzgoogle/remote-window-api/blob/master/explainer.md#sample-code-presentation-api-based Sample code (Presentation API based)
00:38:23 <anssik> -> https://github.com/mfoltzgoogle/remote-window-api/blob/master/explainer.md#sample-code-windowopen-based Sample code (window.open based)
00:38:53 <anssik> ... Chrome security folks prefer separate context
00:40:09 <anssik> ... for v2 would like to talk with Google Slides team and Data Studio team to get their feedback
00:44:55 <anssik> anssik: isn't this like spec for incognito mode?
00:45:42 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: correct, and we currently implement this in Chrome using incognito, this would be the proper way to do that
00:46:55 <anssik> schien: do all apps using 1-UA have the same requirements?
00:48:01 <anssik> ... if all 1-UA apps share the same requirements, then we probably want to strip out the 1-UA case from our current spec
00:48:39 <anssik> ... then the current spec would become 2-UA mode only, and the v2 spec would add 1-UA mode via Remote Window API
00:49:06 <anssik> ... if all the 1-UA mode share the same profile, the implementation side is close to the window.open
00:49:51 <anssik> ... then in 1-UA mode just talk to the same-origin window object via .contentWindow
00:51:57 <anssik> anssik: possible problem with using window.open as is it is synchronous API
00:53:44 <anssik> schien: another issue in 1-UA mode is it cannot have multiple connections
00:54:17 <anssik> ... separation of the APIs for 1-UA and 2-UA mode is easier for developers, they know the capabilities
00:56:47 <anssik> ACTION: mfoltzgoogle to refine the Remote Window API proposal and see if people prefer this over current 1-UA mode, evaluate similar Android API
00:57:57 <anssik> ACTION: anssik to add this v2 feature provisionally to the Charter 2018
00:59:22 <anssik> -> https://github.com/w3c/presentation-api/issues/67 Investigate possible compatibility with HbbTV #67
00:59:35 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: should first look what is in scope
01:00:13 <anssik> ... broadcast-mode not in scope for the API
01:00:39 <anssik> ... media sync mode not in scope for the API, maybe for the Open Screen Protocol
01:00:57 <anssik> schien: wondering how they do their media sync
01:02:14 <anssik> Louay: tried to implement DVB-CSS (DVB Companion Screen Synchronization)
01:02:42 <anssik> s/Companion Screen Synchronization/Companion Screen and Streams
01:03:20 <anssik> ... 170 pages ETSI spec, clearly our of scope
01:03:25 <Louay> DVB-CSS: https://www.dvb.org/standards/dvb_css
01:03:42 <anssik> anssik: what HbbTV features could be in scope?
01:04:22 <anssik> Louay: app launch and control
01:05:55 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: in scope how to launch HbbTV app via custom URL scheme, and how to establish the communication channel
01:06:22 <anssik> ... easier option, figure out how to create secure ws
01:07:13 <anssik> ... second options, add auth API to Presentation API and correspondingly to Open Screen Protocol
01:08:11 <anssik> Louay: or allow presentations to be launched via the communication channel
01:11:02 <anssik> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
01:11:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/06-webscreens-minutes.html anssik
01:12:21 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #webscreens
01:15:10 <anssik> ACTION: Louay to investigate how to do HbbTV scheme with parameters, and look into HbbTV privacy aspects
01:16:01 <anssik> ACTION: mfoltzgoogle to look into HbbTV communication channel requirements in general
01:17:26 <anssik> [all P1 issues discussed]
01:18:22 <anssik> -> https://github.com/w3c/presentation-api/issues/444 Consider use cases for Presentation API v2 with VR capable displays #444
01:20:10 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: use case is to browse on VR, and share 2D view on their external screen for other people to see
01:20:34 <anssik> ... how to show the UI in VR context an implementation detail
01:22:29 <anssik> ... second use case: browse on a laptop, find VR content and want to present it on your mobile phone
01:24:16 <anssik> ... this seems like a browser feature
01:26:49 <anssik> ACTION: anssik to report back our findings to the WebVR CG
01:27:07 <anssik> ACTION: schien to talk to Mozilla's WebVR people in Taiwan and seek their feedback
01:27:31 <anssik> [all P2 issues discussed]
01:28:38 <anssik> -> https://github.com/w3c/presentation-api/issues/348 Presentation display capability detection #348
01:29:35 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: no use case identified, furthermore hard to predict which capabilities to cover
01:29:52 <anssik> anssik: any concerns in closing this issue?
01:31:22 <anssik> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
01:31:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/06-webscreens-minutes.html anssik
01:31:50 <anssik> RESOLUTION: close issue #348
01:33:09 <anssik> -> https://github.com/w3c/presentation-api/issues/32 Allow page to turn itself into a presentation session #32
01:33:29 <anssik> schien: propose we take this as a v2 feature for Charter 2018
01:34:00 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: support the proposal
01:34:21 <anssik> ... related to FlyWeb, HbbTV, Signage
01:35:07 <anssik> Louay: also Hybrid Cast from Japanese TV
01:36:14 <anssik> ACTION: anssik to add v2 feature in #32 provisionally to the Charter 2018
01:37:28 <anssik> -> https://github.com/w3c/presentation-api/issues/202 Presentations without communication channel #202
01:37:36 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: using Presentation API as a launch only API
01:37:58 <anssik> ... basically the controlling page knows if it will need the channel or not
01:38:33 <anssik> ... for example, we have multiple URL support, can add URL for cast and URL for DIAL, get the comms channel for the former, use server for the latter
01:38:50 <anssik> Louay: how can you check in your app that the communication connection is not working?
01:42:14 <anssik> mfoltzgoogle: presentation started but cannot communicate with it, then close connection
01:42:54 <anssik> ACTION: mfoltzgoogle to check the spec language is aligned with "presentation started but cannot communicate, then close connection"
01:43:26 <anssik> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
01:43:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/06-webscreens-minutes.html anssik
01:44:21 <anssik> [Day 1 closed, next up: WG dinner: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Second_Screen/Meetings/Nov_2017_F2F#Group_Dinner]
01:44:23 <anssik> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
01:44:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/06-webscreens-minutes.html anssik
03:20:33 <Zakim> Zakim has left #webscreens