17:00:12 RRSAgent has joined #dnt 17:00:12 logging to https://www.w3.org/2017/11/06-dnt-irc 17:00:14 RRSAgent, make logs world 17:00:14 Zakim has joined #dnt 17:00:16 Meeting: Tracking Protection Working Group Teleconference 17:00:16 Date: 06 November 2017 17:00:33 present+ 17:01:36 dsinger has joined #dnt 17:01:45 schunter has joined #dnt 17:01:57 chair: schunter 17:02:20 Brendan has joined #dnt 17:05:26 at has joined #dnt 17:08:10 moneill2: Would like to understand Rob's issue, but Rob is not here today. 17:09:18 wileys: We have agreement to discuss multiple purposes though an extension and the well-known location or the TSR. 17:09:50 moneill2: Isn't TSR and well-known location the same thing? well-known returns a JSON record. 17:10:10 schunter: One field in the TSR is a pointer to a human-readable text. 17:11:06 moneill2: We can say the extension can only be used with DNT:0. 17:11:30 wileys: Agree, but didn't Rob have an issue for DNT:1? 17:12:50 moneill2: Art 8 on analytics may be an exception. 17:13:20 schunter: So consensus seems to be to allow up to a certain number (16) of purposes. 17:14:03 moneill2: Value in DNT header should identify a human-readable policy via the TSR. 17:14:23 schunter: We want some convergence of purposes in the long term. 17:14:41 moneill2: Yes, also consider that they will have to be in different languages in Europe. 17:15:07 moneill2: What interest do you see, Shane? 17:15:18 wileys: Chicken and egg. 17:17:03 ... Recent browser features seen as adverse by online ad industry, so conversation is not good. Their concern is that browsers will implement in a way that is negative for them. So they need a word from browsers. Then some at least will be willing ot move on UGE support. 17:17:25 ... It is very sensitive right now. Difficult to get commitment on either side. 17:17:42 moneill2: IAB? 17:18:03 wileys: Yes 17:18:23 ... Will take all of 2018 to get there. Will be slow and piecemeal in the beginning. 17:18:48 moneill2: Will have to see what the Trilogues in Europe will give. 17:19:35 wileys: The sooner this group can make a standard the better. Then they can pursue it and go with it to the browser makers. 17:19:56 ... Whatis needed to get an extension? Won't be ready before the end of the year. 17:20:20 ... MAybe we can get another CR our this year, but not a REC before Q1 2018. 17:20:21 There will be convergance in some areas but I think we need to keep the flexibility for each company to do what it needs to be compliant 17:21:02 schunter: If we don't get more support, it will be a hard battle. With new members joining, we have more possibilities. 17:21:08 Brad has joined #dnt 17:21:47 ... We need some prototypes. Maybe after 6 months of experience we can do a version 1.1. 17:22:10 moneill2: We can maybe get a few people involved to get some interoperability. 17:23:46 wileys: I'll ask the IAB to contact you, Matthias. 17:24:20 schunter: Bert, is my estimate of WG extension chances correct? 17:24:46 Bert: Yes, your plan is good, need a publication and show member interest. 17:25:15 wileys: If we can get at least one browser implem, the dominoes will start to fall. 17:26:28 schunter: Don't expect impelementations of the multiple purposes before 6 montsh, even if we publish soon. 17:26:42 ... We need stronger evidence. 17:27:10 wileys: Google may be in a position, because they do browser *and* ads. 17:28:01 ... Getting Mozilla back in would be good. But they would probably not be the ones asking for multiple purposes. 17:28:31 schunter: Get @@ on the WG? 17:28:45 wileys: I can try to find out? 17:29:16 schunter: If they make some statement, that may convince the Director. 17:30:18 ... If we say we want to publish a spec that we believe is not enough, we won't convince the Director. 17:30:35 wileys: Not so black and white. It is very close. 17:31:46 ... Asking people to install extensions is not a path forward. 17:32:00 moneill2: People use extensions to try out things. 17:33:10 Flash and SL are both dying slow deaths 17:34:10 schunter: Say Deutsche Telekom makes a plugin. It shows interest, even if it is not fancy. 17:35:00 wileys: We need browsers to step up more, before ad industry wants to invest. 17:35:25 schunter: We need some evidence, interest to show to W3C. 17:35:51 wileys: Let me try if I can get some people to come. 17:36:03 ... And I'll have more to talk about next week. 17:36:35 schunter: Some user group engagement. Maybe even one of them can join. 17:37:31 schunter: What other options are the sites exploring? Cookies? 17:38:16 wileys: Yes, and server-to-server protocols. But they are hoping DNT can provide a solution. 17:38:55 ... If browsers do DNT, it'll be much cheaper for them. 17:40:43 Discussion about time and sequence of work on extensions. 17:43:36 Can somebody form IABEU be Invited Expert? 17:45:05 Bert: There has to be a conflict-of-interest check, for the rest it is up to use who to invite. 17:45:31 schunter: We may need an extension of 2 months to finish the REC. 17:46:10 ... Publishing a REC will give us a good situation to ask for a new charter. 17:47:16 Disucssion about implementation report and tests. 17:48:52 Format of report. 17:49:37 moneill2: What about EFF implementation, Privacy Badger? 17:50:11 at: We are still planning on implementing. 17:50:24 schunter: By end of year would be perfect. 17:50:58 at: I will talk with the team to see what the planning is. 17:51:46 schunter: And Mike should work with Bert on starting an implem. report. 17:52:51 moneill2: I'll see Martin Kurze tomorrow, I'll ask him what he plans to implement. 17:54:02 Next meeting is next week. 17:55:10 wileys has left #dnt 17:55:25 wileys: About the extension, we'll need to see what Rob's issue means. It may make it go in a different direction. 17:56:16 RRSAgent, make minutes v2 17:56:16 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/06-dnt-minutes.html Bert 19:11:53 Zakim has left #dnt 19:42:45 dsinger has joined #dnt 20:15:29 dsinger has joined #dnt 21:43:46 at has joined #dnt 21:48:08 dsinger has joined #dnt 23:04:06 dsinger has joined #dnt 23:59:20 dsinger has joined #dnt 01:07:53 dsinger has joined #dnt 02:40:28 dsinger has joined #dnt 04:08:51 dsinger has joined #dnt 05:40:52 dsinger has joined #dnt 14:44:37 dsinger has joined #dnt 15:12:13 dsinger has joined #dnt 16:15:11 dsinger has joined #dnt 16:38:08 dsinger has joined #dnt 18:01:59 dsinger has joined #dnt