17:02:35 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #social
17:02:35 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/10/24-social-irc
17:02:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
17:02:37 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #social
17:02:37 <tantek> good morning #social
17:02:39 <trackbot> Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
17:02:39 <trackbot> Date: 24 October 2017
17:02:58 <ben_thatmustbeme> good morning tantek
17:03:43 <cwebber> present+
17:03:44 <sandro> present+
17:03:45 <ben_thatmustbeme> present+
17:04:09 <ajordan> present+
17:04:10 <Loqi> ajordan: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 1 week, 1 day ago: I merged the rest of your text fixes in the the ED and and am updating a few of the more important fixes (remaining 'value' error)
17:04:10 <Loqi> ajordan: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 1 week, 1 day ago: I think its good to go for an updated WD
17:04:41 <tantek> zakim, who is here?
17:04:44 <Zakim> Present: cwebber, sandro, ben_thatmustbeme, ajordan
17:04:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, tantek, adam, dlongley, timbl, xmpp-social, jankusanagi_, DenSchub, jungkees, jaywink, raucao, saranix, bwn, erincandescent, wilkie, jet, rhiaro,
17:04:44 <Zakim> ... ben_thatmustbeme, Gargron, csarven, sknebel, Loqi, melody, ajordan, mattl, bigbluehat, cwebber, surinna, dlehn, KjetilK, bitbear, aaronpk, howl, dwhly, tsyesika,
17:04:47 <Zakim> ... astronouth7303, sandro, nightpool, trackbot, puckipedia
17:04:53 <tantek> present+
17:05:36 <ben_thatmustbeme> i can scribe
17:05:42 <ben_thatmustbeme> scribenick: ben_thatmustbeme
17:05:47 <ben_thatmustbeme> scribe: Ben Roberts
17:05:51 <ben_thatmustbeme> Chair: Tantek
17:05:54 <tantek> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2017-10-10-minutes
17:05:54 <ajordan> FYI I'm on audio but can't speak for ~30 minutes
17:06:08 <ben_thatmustbeme> TOPIC: approval of last meeting's minutes
17:06:19 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: please take a quick look
17:06:27 <tantek> PROPOSED: Approve minutes from two weeks ago https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2017-10-10-minutes
17:06:37 <aaronpk> present+
17:06:43 <sandro> +1
17:07:13 <ajordan> that's the second time SV_MEETING_CHAIR has happened
17:07:20 <ajordan> something must be borked
17:07:33 <rowan> rowan has joined #social
17:07:41 <ben_thatmustbeme> its because no one set Chair: in the minutes
17:07:44 <ajordan> +1
17:07:57 <ajordan> ^^^ to the PROPOSED
17:08:03 <ben_thatmustbeme> +1
17:08:18 <cwebber> +1
17:09:19 <rhiaro> present+
17:09:23 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: lets go ahead and resolve them
17:09:44 <ben_thatmustbeme> TOPIC: telcon schedule
17:10:00 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: the next item is telcon sched, but the next meetings coming up are TPAC
17:10:02 <Loqi> Tantekelik made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2017-10-10-minutes]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=104830&oldid=104648
17:10:28 <ben_thatmustbeme> we have a slot scheduled for the CG, monday afternoon i believe
17:10:33 <sandro> 15:30–17:30 	Social Web Incubator CG
17:10:38 <sandro> Monday
17:11:09 <sandro> https://www.w3.org/2017/11/TPAC/schedule.html
17:11:39 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: make a note of that, november 6th 3:30
17:11:51 <cwebber> q+
17:12:02 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... we'll see about remote attendance, we'll certainly be using the IRC
17:12:05 <eprodrom> eprodrom has joined #social
17:12:08 <eprodrom> hallo
17:12:11 <eprodrom> present+
17:12:13 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... not sure if thats after the time change or not
17:12:13 <tantek> ack cwebber
17:12:19 <ajordan> eprodrom: hallo!
17:13:03 <ben_thatmustbeme> cwebber: i want to point out that we said we would do it every other week but leave it open to additional weeks.  I think we might want to do that for a making sure AP gets to CR
17:13:21 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: we had agreed to 90 minutes today and we have that possibility of adding another week
17:13:28 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... did you need more discussion or just confirmation
17:13:57 <ben_thatmustbeme> cwebber: we might need to issue a new CR next week, but i think it depends on what ends up happening today and this week
17:14:14 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: so you are saying you may need an additional meeting for next week either way for publishing reasons
17:14:24 <ben_thatmustbeme> sandro: isn't it conditional?
17:14:42 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: basically its 'if we need more time or we need it for publication'
17:15:01 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... i think its a reasonable request, are there any objections?
17:15:13 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... not hearing any obj. i'm going to approve that
17:15:45 <ben_thatmustbeme> TOPIC: activity pub
17:15:54 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: cwebber, what is left for CR
17:16:32 <eprodrom_> eprodrom_ has joined #social
17:16:35 <ben_thatmustbeme> cwebber: the major thing is the test suite, and i got it written.  I was deploying it this morning but ran in to servers issues.  the software is good in theory, its just a matter of working through the deploy issues
17:16:52 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... by the end of today, i should have it up and people on the IRC should be able to see it and test against it
17:16:57 <tantek> \o/ yay for being written
17:17:04 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: awesome progress
17:17:11 <ajordan> congrats cwebber
17:17:24 <ben_thatmustbeme> sandro: other than puckipedia who do you expect to be submitting implementations in the near-term?
17:17:38 <ajordan> ^^^ same
17:17:49 <ben_thatmustbeme> cwebber: i'm going to submit one and ... and i'm going to try to push others to submit them, most notably mastodon
17:17:54 <ajordan> probably
17:18:02 <ben_thatmustbeme> sandro: ajordan are you expecting to have this implemented or not yet?
17:18:12 <ben_thatmustbeme> ajordan: (via IRC) probably
17:18:13 <ajordan> it's about 50-50 that it's done in time
17:18:27 <ben_thatmustbeme> sandro: cwebber are you expecting these to all be complete or a feature matrix sort of thing?
17:18:28 <ajordan> been pretty swamped for like a month, trying to avoid burnout :-)
17:18:45 <sandro> understood
17:19:09 <ben_thatmustbeme> cwebber: its going to be a feature matrix, the test suite actually will export the implementation report and i can just plug it in to make it nice and "griddy"
17:19:28 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: there is also an implementation with bridgy
17:19:29 <ajordan> I expect to ship AS2 representations this week, hopefully the rest of AP isn't too far off but I'm not sure
17:19:37 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... idon't know if that can be run against it
17:19:38 <tantek> fed.brid.gy
17:19:41 <eprodrom_> ajordan++
17:19:42 <Loqi> ajordan has 21 karma in this channel (22 overall)
17:19:49 <rhiaro> cwebber: distbin by bengo and sloph by me
17:19:59 <eprodrom_> I have an app that should be ready to test for next week
17:20:02 <Loqi> Tantekelik made 1 edit to [[Socialwg]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=104831&oldid=104649
17:20:10 <eprodrom_> (It's a client app, c2s)
17:20:21 <ben_thatmustbeme> cwebber: (lists a bunch of app) anyone else i should reach out to?
17:21:01 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: i know in the past two weeks, there have been one maybe two people using fed.brid.gy to reply to mastodon
17:21:03 <ajordan> I'm honestly over the moon that fed.brid.gy is a thing
17:21:13 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... its not a test per-se but at least its real world example
17:21:33 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... thats one of the things we would want to bring up with you in the transition call
17:21:56 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... you may want to consider having a section in your implementation report for real-world interop or something like that
17:22:08 <eprodrom> ajordan: haven't pushed it
17:22:17 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... list them or give permalinks, etc
17:22:20 <eprodrom> I'll get it up this weekend!
17:22:34 <ajordan> \o/
17:22:34 <ben_thatmustbeme> cwebber: i can ask that, yeah
17:22:45 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: is that reasonable to you sandro?
17:22:50 <ben_thatmustbeme> sandro: yeah, thats great
17:22:56 <cwebber> https://github.com/w3c/activitypub/issues
17:23:11 <ben_thatmustbeme> cwebber: the issues that were moved to extensions have been closed, so thats moving along nicely
17:23:20 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... everything thats left on there is editorial
17:23:39 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... hopefully we'll have everything ready for a PR ready document by next tuesday
17:23:53 <ben_thatmustbeme> sandro: you want to do another editorial CR next week?
17:24:03 <ben_thatmustbeme> cwebber: i don't know the process, does it make sense?
17:24:16 <ben_thatmustbeme> sandro: no need to, you can just wrap them in to the PR?
17:24:25 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... the question there is when do we think we will go to PR?
17:24:58 <ben_thatmustbeme> .... should we say nov 14th as a target deadline for imp reports
17:25:06 <ben_thatmustbeme> cwebber: that sounds like a good goal
17:25:21 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: if we are going to wait that long, there is no harm doing an editorial CR is there?
17:25:37 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... i was under the impression we were going to try for like next week
17:25:45 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... i would be supportive either way
17:26:07 <ben_thatmustbeme> sandro: what is important to have the editorial changes are done in the ED at least soon
17:26:12 <rhiaro> q+
17:26:23 <rhiaro> q-
17:26:31 <eprodrom> q+
17:26:32 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: i agree, cwebber is that something that you can commit to by next week?
17:26:36 <tantek> q?
17:26:39 <tantek> ack eprodrom
17:26:39 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... incorporated in to the ED
17:26:41 <ben_thatmustbeme> cwebber: yeah
17:26:47 <ben_thatmustbeme> eprodrom: i can help too
17:27:28 <rhiaro> now I started, I plan to keep working on the issues aiming for them all to have text in the ED by Friday, so people can review over the weekend and if we want to vote a new CR on Tuesday
17:27:39 <rhiaro> I did like half in the last 2 hours
17:27:39 <eprodrom> rhiaro: great
17:27:51 <ben_thatmustbeme> cwebber: i think thats everything i had to say
17:28:16 <ben_thatmustbeme> sandro: we didn't quite resolve if we would do a new CR next week or just get it in to ED
17:28:33 <ben_thatmustbeme> cwebber: i think it seems like a good idea to issue a new CR
17:28:48 <ben_thatmustbeme> sandro: it also makes the PR transition a little cleaner
17:28:49 <rhiaro> +1 new CR
17:29:04 <ben_thatmustbeme> sandro: can you have that ready by monday so we can review?
17:29:08 <ben_thatmustbeme> cwebber: yes
17:29:24 <eprodrom> 30 minutes?
17:29:37 <ben_thatmustbeme> sandro: and I guess just a quick meeting on tuesday just to do a quick vote
17:29:51 <ben_thatmustbeme> <ben_thatmustbeme> i probably won't be able to be on next week
17:29:57 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: any objections
17:30:01 <cwebber> eprodrom, I think 30 mins should be fine
17:30:04 <xmpp-social> xmpp-social has joined #social
17:30:07 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: i just want to record that there are no objections
17:30:22 <ben_thatmustbeme> cwebber: 30 minutes seems reasonable to me
17:30:25 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: me too
17:30:29 <eprodrom> I can chair
17:30:36 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... i'm also going to volunteer evan to chair
17:30:46 <cwebber> https://test.activitypub.rocks/
17:30:48 <eprodrom> Will be coming off of transatlantic flight but I can rock that
17:31:23 <ben_thatmustbeme> cwebber: one more thing, this is the version of the test suite thats running, it doesn't support https but its up there and verify that version for now
17:31:42 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... you can do the first and last one, which are just clicking buttons to say you support things
17:31:42 <eprodrom> How do I kill people in this mush
17:31:53 <eprodrom> j/k
17:31:57 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: evan: what?
17:32:21 <ben_thatmustbeme> cwebber: this is reusing the interface i used for a MUD...
17:32:44 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: i think we have answered all the questions, congratulations cwebber for getting the test suite up there
17:33:04 <eprodrom> I should probably note for the record that I don't want to kill people. That's just something that noobs say when they join a MUD/MUSH for the first time.
17:33:09 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: i think we have some time for last call for implementations right?
17:33:15 <cwebber> eprodrom: :)
17:33:44 <Loqi> +1
17:33:56 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: cwebber do you have a stub implemntation report?
17:34:12 <ben_thatmustbeme> cwebber: i can copy and paste the output if i just say no to everything
17:34:15 <cwebber> https://test.activitypub.rocks/download-report/zgok7bivx36lpconvk3bx7ggz34hcemesmrkas4u3hdn23txzvnq
17:34:17 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: i mean the summary
17:34:27 <ben_thatmustbeme> cwebber: i'm doing that today
17:34:34 <tantek> https://activitypub.rocks/implementation-report/
17:35:01 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: so thats where it would be at that link?
17:35:06 <ben_thatmustbeme> cwebber: yes
17:35:28 <ben_thatmustbeme> TOPIC: websub
17:35:39 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: any new issues on websub?
17:35:49 <aaronpk> https://github.com/w3c/websub/issues/127
17:35:50 <Loqi> [mkovatsc] #127 Review for Proposed Recommendation
17:35:58 <ben_thatmustbeme> aaronpk: yes, someone submitted a review of several ... i'll just post the link
17:36:16 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... i have not yet started to address these
17:36:16 <JanKusanagi> JanKusanagi has joined #social
17:36:46 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... and then tantek opened an issue to discuss the text to refer to the text
17:36:58 <ben_thatmustbeme> just the text links to it, its not a normative change
17:37:21 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: that one (127) looks like it needs to be broken up in to sep issues
17:37:29 <ben_thatmustbeme> aaronpk: yeah, that will be my action item
17:37:52 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: other than that?
17:38:03 <ben_thatmustbeme> aaronpk: other than taht, i don't htink i have any updates
17:38:33 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: i believe i can share that there are no negative responses to the PR yet
17:38:53 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... it sounds like if you are able to resolve these issues we may get another in
17:39:08 <ben_thatmustbeme> sandro: it would be good to remind people at TPAC to vote
17:39:38 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... right now i would need to extend the response time limit
17:39:51 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: can we extend it to thursday at TPAC?
17:39:54 <ben_thatmustbeme> sandro: sure
17:40:09 <eprodrom> ajordan: oh, har
17:41:08 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: aaronpk how soon do you think you can get those issues created?
17:41:22 <ben_thatmustbeme> aaronpk: i can probably do that either today or tomorrow
17:41:26 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: sounds good
17:41:40 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... sandro anything we should do to prepare, and editors draft, etc?
17:41:57 <ben_thatmustbeme> sandro: sure, keeping the editors draft up to date is always good
17:42:23 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: so aaronpk you have licesnse to keep updating the ED as you resolve these issues
17:42:30 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... anything else for websub?
17:43:12 <ben_thatmustbeme> TOPIC: JF2
17:43:24 <eprodrom> I can scribe
17:43:29 <eprodrom> scribenick: eprodrom
17:43:54 <eprodrom> tantek: take us through what's happening with JF2
17:44:03 <eprodrom> tantek: there will be a new ED
17:44:11 <tantek> s/ED/WD
17:44:12 <eprodrom> ben_thatmustbeme: not a lot of normative changes, editorial changes
17:44:31 <eprodrom> ben_thatmustbeme: also examples and references
17:44:35 <tantek> http://dissolve.github.io/jf2/#changes-from-19-july-2017-wd-to-this-version
17:45:01 <tantek> q?
17:45:09 <eprodrom> q+
17:45:15 <tantek> ack eprodrom
17:45:41 <ajordan> does it matter in terms of process since it's a WD?
17:46:08 <ben_thatmustbeme> I just lost my audio responses
17:46:11 <eprodrom> eprodrom: were there any editorial changes that could be normative?
17:46:29 <eprodrom> ben_thatmustbeme: reviewed changes, were not normative
17:46:48 <ajordan> I guess https://github.com/dissolve/jf2/commit/d766076b00d9af40521d669872fc3c4119ebf17e is technically normative but it was pretty clear so
17:47:45 <ben_thatmustbeme> trying
17:47:50 <ben_thatmustbeme> its not behaving
17:49:10 <tantek> right, that red text is not in https://dissolve.github.io/jf2/
17:49:12 <ajordan> ben_thatmustbeme: https://github.com/dissolve/jf2/pull/35
17:49:12 <Loqi> [strugee] #35 Fix changelog typo
17:49:14 <eprodrom> ben_thatmustbeme: the change ajordan is noting was not from the previous WD; it was in a branch for development of this text
17:49:36 <ben_thatmustbeme> https://www.w3.org/TR/jf2/#documents
17:49:54 <eprodrom> tantek: any other edits that might be normative
17:50:01 <timbl> timbl has joined #social
17:50:11 <tantek> and currently published version: https://www.w3.org/TR/jf2/
17:50:12 <Loqi> [Benjamin Roberts] JF2 Post Serialization Format
17:50:14 <eprodrom> ben_thatmustbeme: as ajordan said, he did most of the edits, and I reviewed and pulled them
17:50:20 <tantek> q?
17:50:33 <ajordan> ben_thatmustbeme: if you could merge the PR I just linked to
17:50:43 <ajordan> that'd be neat
17:50:44 <eprodrom> tantek: any more questions before we take this to a proposal?
17:51:05 <eprodrom> PROPOSED: publish an updated working draft of JF@
17:51:06 <cwebber> +1
17:51:11 <eprodrom> s/JF@/JF2/
17:51:14 <eprodrom> overcapped
17:51:22 <ajordan> +1
17:51:24 <eprodrom> PROPOSED: publish an updated working draft of JF2
17:51:24 <ben_thatmustbeme> ajordan: i will merge tha
17:51:25 <ben_thatmustbeme> t
17:51:30 <eprodrom> +1
17:51:32 <ajordan> ben_thatmustbeme++
17:51:32 <Loqi> ben_thatmustbeme has 86 karma in this channel (257 overall)
17:51:43 <tantek> +1
17:51:44 <aaronpk> +1
17:52:13 <sandro> +1
17:52:39 <ben_thatmustbeme> scribenick: ben_thatmustbeme
17:52:54 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: this is an ordinary WD so you should be able to do it with echidna
17:53:00 <ajordan> whooo one new publish and one planned publish!
17:53:30 <eprodrom> ben_thatmustbeme: thank YOU
17:53:49 <eprodrom> RESOLVED: publish an updated working draft of JF2
17:53:55 <eprodrom> Sorry I missed that part
17:54:38 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: anything else on JF2?
17:54:43 <ben_thatmustbeme> ben_thatmustbeme: no thats it
17:55:09 <rhiaro> noooot yet
17:55:12 <rhiaro> maybe one day
17:55:14 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: any new documents needing to be published or needing updates?
17:55:16 <rhiaro> you'll all be the first to know
17:55:21 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: was hoping for SWP
17:55:33 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... thats okay, i'll keep pestering you amy
17:55:40 <ben_thatmustbeme> TOPIC: Post Type Discovery
17:55:56 <tantek> https://github.com/tantek/post-type-discovery/issues/30
17:55:56 <Loqi> [tantek] #30 add "reacji" discovery with reply fallback, consider like fallback
17:56:26 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: I documented some parts with Reacji, its a response that has a fallback of reply, which pretty much every response does, but it also has a 'like' fallback possibly
17:57:12 <ben_thatmustbeme> i wanted to bring that up to the groups attention and see if anyone else has seen something like this where there is a new post type that other systems might not know how to fallback
17:57:26 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... thats all i had there, just wanted to bring people's attention to it
17:57:50 <tantek> q?
17:58:11 <ben_thatmustbeme> TOPIC: any other document statuses
17:58:16 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: any other documents?
17:58:19 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... no?
17:58:37 <ben_thatmustbeme> TOPIC: CG update
17:58:44 <tantek> had meeting 2017-10-11
17:59:19 <ben_thatmustbeme> cwebber: had a call last time that was pretty interesting, good attendance, we talked about (?) filtering
17:59:27 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... pretty much took up the whole meeting
17:59:34 <eprodrom> Filtering is really interesting
17:59:37 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... i believe we have another call tomorrow
17:59:49 <ben_thatmustbeme> aaronpk: its on my calendar for tomorrow
17:59:52 <eprodrom> cwebber: the Bayesian spam filter we use for OStatus is pretty good
17:59:58 <ben_thatmustbeme> TOPIC: Any Other Business?
18:00:12 <eprodrom> cwebber: I should probably get it up and running again
18:00:24 <tantek> FYI: https://www.w3.org/wiki/SocialCG/2017-10-25
18:00:46 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: not hearing any other business i'm going to go ahead and close the meeting
18:01:16 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... we are scheduled for 30 minutes at most next week, evan will be chairing, the purpose will be to review and hopefully approve an updated AP CR
18:01:27 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... it would be great to have you all there
18:01:37 <ben_thatmustbeme> <ben_thatmustbeme> same bat time, same IRC channel
18:01:42 <eprodrom> will do
18:01:45 <tantek> https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?title=Socialwg/2017-10-31&action=edit&redlink=1
18:02:07 <cwebber> eprodrom, cool... yeah it came up! :)
18:02:24 <ben_thatmustbeme> thanks everyone
18:02:33 <tantek> ben_thatmustbeme++ for scribing!
18:02:33 <Loqi> ben_thatmustbeme has 87 karma in this channel (258 overall)
18:02:34 <eprodrom> ben_thatmustbeme++
18:02:34 <Loqi> ben_thatmustbeme has 88 karma in this channel (259 overall)
18:02:37 <eprodrom> tantek++
18:02:37 <Loqi> tantek has 73 karma in this channel (396 overall)
18:02:38 <ajordan> ben_thatmustbeme++ for scribing
18:02:42 <ajordan> eprodrom++ too!
18:02:42 <Loqi> slow down!
18:02:48 <ajordan> Loqi: nah
18:03:22 <ben_thatmustbeme> trackbot end meeting
18:03:22 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
18:03:22 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been cwebber, sandro, ben_thatmustbeme, ajordan, tantek, aaronpk, rhiaro, eprodrom
18:03:30 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:03:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/10/24-social-minutes.html trackbot
18:03:31 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
18:03:31 <RRSAgent> I see no action items