IRC log of i18n on 2017-10-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:47:13 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/10/19-i18n-irc
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trackbot, prepare teleconference
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RRSAgent, make logs world
14:47:36 [trackbot]
Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
14:47:36 [trackbot]
Date: 19 October 2017
14:47:42 [addison]
Chair: Addison Phillips
14:47:46 [addison]
ScribeNick: addison
14:47:51 [addison]
Scribe: Addison Phillips
14:48:19 [addison]
Regrets: David
14:48:29 [addison]
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2017Oct/0014.html
14:48:34 [addison]
agenda+ Agenda
14:48:44 [addison]
agenda+ Action Items
14:48:46 [addison]
agenda+ Info Share
14:48:49 [addison]
agenda+ Radar
14:49:07 [addison]
agenda+ DNT review, old DNT comment review
14:49:22 [addison]
agenda+ String-Meta
14:49:35 [addison]
agenda+ Low vision needs pending
14:50:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/10/19-i18n-minutes.html addison
14:55:34 [Najib]
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15:01:21 [Klensin]
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15:03:49 [Bert]
present+
15:04:04 [xfq]
present+ Fuqiao
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15:06:01 [addison]
agenda?
15:06:26 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 1
15:06:26 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Agenda" taken up [from addison]
15:06:48 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 2
15:06:48 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Action Items" taken up [from addison]
15:07:19 [addison]
action-658?
15:07:19 [trackbot]
action-658 -- Richard Ishida to Look for latin text with dot or macron below that could cause problems for underline -- due 2017-10-05 -- OPEN
15:07:19 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/658
15:07:25 [addison]
richard: done, here's a link
15:07:27 [r12a]
https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/1288#issuecomment-337883369
15:07:34 [addison]
close action-658
15:07:34 [trackbot]
Closed action-658.
15:08:25 [addison]
richard: one of the things I needed was way to find which languages use dot-below
15:08:31 [addison]
... didn't find a way to query
15:08:39 [addison]
... apart from decode unicode
15:08:45 [addison]
addison: look at cldr?
15:09:09 [addison]
richard: don't have a way to query by character
15:09:13 [addison]
... might bake something of my own
15:09:33 [addison]
action-662?
15:09:33 [trackbot]
action-662 -- Addison Phillips to Review dnt and sent an all-clear status to that wg unless something found -- due 2017-10-19 -- OPEN
15:09:33 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/662
15:09:42 [addison]
close action-662
15:09:42 [trackbot]
Closed action-662.
15:10:05 [addison]
agenda+ Charmod
15:10:39 [addison]
action-665?
15:10:39 [trackbot]
action-665 -- Richard Ishida to Get behnam to forward 497 to the utr53 pri -- due 2017-10-19 -- OPEN
15:10:39 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/665
15:10:49 [addison]
close action-665
15:10:49 [trackbot]
Closed action-665.
15:11:01 [addison]
richard: he forwarded everything, not just the one
15:11:15 [addison]
action-666?
15:11:15 [trackbot]
action-666 -- Addison Phillips to Talk to unicode folks about ways to cross-pollinate between our groups -- due 2017-10-19 -- OPEN
15:11:15 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/666
15:12:39 [addison]
addison: talked to Mark Davis, suggestion of CLDR-TC
15:12:44 [addison]
close action-666
15:12:44 [trackbot]
Closed action-666.
15:13:02 [addison]
action-668?
15:13:02 [trackbot]
action-668 -- Richard Ishida to Set up wiki in our repo to capture ideas for engaging folks with our questions -- due 2017-10-19 -- OPEN
15:13:02 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/668
15:13:13 [addison]
richard: suggested we just do member- email instead
15:13:16 [addison]
... assuming that works
15:13:21 [addison]
close action-668
15:13:21 [trackbot]
Closed action-668.
15:13:41 [addison]
bert: one suggestion for that is there may be others who have similar questions or problems
15:13:46 [addison]
... maybe ask other groups
15:13:51 [addison]
... see if they have ideas
15:14:17 [addison]
addison: ask generally? like on chairs?
15:14:45 [andrewc_]
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15:15:22 [addison]
action: addison to ping various chairs or the chairs list for ideas on engaging
15:15:23 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-669 - Ping various chairs or the chairs list for ideas on engaging [on Addison Phillips - due 2017-10-26].
15:15:49 [addison]
action: addison to remind members to send ideas about how to find experts to member list
15:15:50 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-670 - Remind members to send ideas about how to find experts to member list [on Addison Phillips - due 2017-10-26].
15:15:57 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 3
15:15:57 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Info Share" taken up [from addison]
15:16:06 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/10/19-i18n-minutes.html addison
15:16:34 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 4
15:16:34 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Radar" taken up [from addison]
15:16:40 [addison]
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/projects/1
15:17:33 [addison]
http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/projects/
15:18:37 [addison]
addison: having a hard time finding the matrix
15:19:01 [r12a]
http://w3c.github.io/typography/gap-analysis/language-matrix.html
15:19:43 [addison]
agenda?
15:19:57 [r12a]
present+
15:20:01 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 5
15:20:01 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "DNT review, old DNT comment review" taken up [from addison]
15:20:03 [addison]
present+
15:20:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/10/19-i18n-minutes.html addison
15:20:21 [r12a]
http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/
15:21:07 [r12a]
http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/#tracking-dnt
15:21:22 [addison]
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue%20is%3Aopen%20label%3Atracking-dnt
15:21:35 [florian]
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15:22:16 [addison]
richard: discovered we had issues, no reply to them on their mailing list
15:22:35 [addison]
... second thing was that people started answering the questions/discussion in *our* tracker
15:22:40 [addison]
... rather than on their list
15:22:49 [addison]
... so removed 'pending' labels
15:22:54 [addison]
... and created on their list
15:23:08 [addison]
addison: are they tracked there?
15:24:00 [addison]
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/508
15:25:53 [addison]
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/509
15:26:40 [andrewc_]
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15:27:30 [addison]
richard: dsinger's suggestion goes back to string-meta
15:27:46 [addison]
... requires every string to start with a tag
15:28:01 [addison]
addison: have to parse every string to find out the language
15:28:13 [Klensin]
present+ JcK
15:28:27 [addison]
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/510
15:34:38 [addison]
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/34
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15:35:03 [addison]
richard: looked at latest version of spec
15:35:40 [addison]
potential for close?
15:36:07 [addison]
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/35
15:36:11 [addison]
close (same as 508)
15:36:48 [r12a]
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/36
15:37:28 [addison]
addison: I no longer thing this issue is a good one
15:37:58 [addison]
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/35
15:38:00 [addison]
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/37
15:38:16 [addison]
editorial
15:38:18 [addison]
close
15:38:20 [addison]
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/38
15:40:27 [addison]
addison: intended to be an ID that is not intended to be human readable
15:40:47 [addison]
jck: non-ascii identifiers add to confusion or danger
15:41:13 [addison]
The status-id has been intentionally limited to a small set of characters to encourage use of short tokens instead of potentially long, human-readable strings.
15:41:49 [addison]
jck: could let go
15:41:55 [addison]
addison: think we should let go
15:42:29 [addison]
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/39
15:44:24 [addison]
addison: 7.4.2 needs same health warning about status-id?
15:44:30 [addison]
bert: links to previous section
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15:46:40 [addison]
addison: kill or keep?
15:46:44 [addison]
bert: kill
15:47:32 [addison]
richard: if it is saying that they are just status id's then things are okay
15:47:36 [addison]
... not a general URI
15:48:00 [addison]
addison: location is not arbitrary
15:48:05 [addison]
bert: can send a redirect
15:48:13 [addison]
addison: but that could be any URI
15:48:21 [addison]
richard: close them all then
15:48:40 [addison]
... worth asking them why these comments went unanswered for years
15:48:48 [addison]
bert: could be contacts changed?
15:48:55 [addison]
... can ask
15:49:31 [addison]
richard: curious how fell through cracks
15:49:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/10/19-i18n-minutes.html addison
15:49:49 [addison]
action: richard to close all dnt issues that need close
15:49:51 [r12a]
agenda?
15:49:52 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-671 - Close all dnt issues that need close [on Richard Ishida - due 2017-10-26].
15:49:54 [addison]
agenda?
15:50:11 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 7
15:50:11 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "Low vision needs pending" taken up [from addison]
15:50:21 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 8
15:50:21 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "Charmod" taken up [from addison]
15:50:32 [addison]
richard: how should I deal with charmod?
15:50:47 [addison]
... went through and spent more time doing editorial improvements
15:50:50 [addison]
... raised issues
15:51:03 [addison]
... part of me wondered fi to raise issues
15:51:06 [addison]
... versus PR
15:51:16 [addison]
... so how to proceed
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15:55:34 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 7
15:55:34 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "Low vision needs pending" taken up [from addison]
15:55:49 [addison]
http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/
15:56:04 [r12a]
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Alow-vision-needs
15:56:21 [r12a]
http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/#low-vision-needs
15:56:41 [addison]
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/500
15:57:13 [addison]
richard: very similar to wcag review I performed recently
15:57:16 [addison]
... text is very close
15:57:26 [r12a]
http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/#wcag
15:57:27 [addison]
... here's a link to those:
15:57:42 [addison]
... low vision doc is just requirements
15:57:57 [addison]
... wcag doc says "in context of content dev for use, this is how reqs translate"
15:58:08 [addison]
... raised a number of questions that also apply to low vision doc
15:58:14 [addison]
... haven't cross-ref
15:58:18 [addison]
bert: make links?
15:58:23 [addison]
richard: but carefully
15:58:38 [addison]
... wcag->low vision maybe more than vice versa
15:58:47 [addison]
... use in wcag is more targetted
15:59:50 [addison]
richard: "languages that use left-to-right scripts"
16:00:26 [addison]
accept
16:00:28 [addison]
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/501
16:01:02 [addison]
addison: writing mode problem?
16:01:14 [addison]
richard: look at terse statements, speaking from memory
16:01:18 [addison]
... how to express those concepts
16:01:29 [addison]
... think they took advice
16:01:34 [addison]
... just examples
16:02:31 [r12a]
User Need - Rewrap:
16:02:32 [r12a]
Blocks of text rewrap so that only one direction of scrolling is needed, e.g., for left-right and right-left scripts (languages), usually vertical scrolling and not horizontal scrolling.
16:03:22 [addison]
okay
16:03:23 [addison]
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/502
16:03:59 [addison]
richard: back on 501, consider this on vertical too
16:04:38 [addison]
richard: 502, don't know, think interesting question
16:05:03 [addison]
... small forms for syllables for kya and such
16:05:19 [addison]
... forms for dealing with small letters, soetimes prevent from happening at start of line
16:05:22 [addison]
... maybe consider
16:05:33 [addison]
... lot of complex scripts are based on syllables
16:05:40 [addison]
... so maybe not so bad?
16:05:56 [addison]
andrew: grapheme clusters within a syllable
16:06:09 [addison]
richard: didn't say grapheme clusters because of tha tproblem
16:06:18 [addison]
andrew: some browsers break on clusters
16:06:31 [addison]
s/tha tproblem/that problem/
16:06:37 [addison]
richard: keep syllables together
16:07:17 [addison]
... could prevent mid-word breaks
16:08:27 [addison]
bert: two parts of word not next to each other
16:08:56 [addison]
richard: not hyph, but breaking words in our view
16:09:06 [addison]
... don't know offhand how that applies but quote possible it does
16:09:12 [addison]
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/503
16:09:41 [addison]
seems valid
16:09:56 [addison]
richard: maybe phrasing
16:10:06 [addison]
... bold isn't easy to read because harder to read
16:10:13 [addison]
addison: or italics!
16:10:24 [addison]
richard: doesn't talk about emphasis but rather styling
16:10:40 [addison]
... underline definitely preferred
16:10:47 [addison]
... in certain scripts
16:11:13 [addison]
richard: need to say "allow users to change bold/italic/underline to culturally preferred idioms"
16:11:17 [addison]
... to make easier to read
16:12:15 [addison]
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/511
16:12:35 [Klensin]
Klensin has left #i18n
16:12:52 [addison]
richard: worried they linked there
16:13:38 [addison]
... not aware of our articles
16:13:42 [addison]
... ?
16:14:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/10/19-i18n-minutes.html addison
16:14:11 [addison]
Topic: AOB?
16:15:55 [addison]
addison: will work on encoding tomorrow
16:16:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/10/19-i18n-minutes.html addison
16:16:07 [addison]
zakim, bye
16:16:07 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Bert, Fuqiao, r12a, addison, JcK
16:16:07 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #i18n
16:16:19 [addison]
present+ Andrew
16:16:24 [addison]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:16:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/10/19-i18n-minutes.html addison
16:16:44 [andrewc_]
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16:36:32 [r12a]
s/<scribe> Scribe: Addison Phillips//
16:37:33 [r12a]
s/trackbot, prepare teleconference//
16:41:11 [r12a]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:41:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/10/19-i18n-minutes.html r12a
16:41:33 [r12a]
regrets+ Jan
16:41:35 [r12a]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:41:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/10/19-i18n-minutes.html r12a
16:42:10 [r12a]
s/<scribe> Scribe: Addison Phillips//
16:42:13 [r12a]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:42:13 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/10/19-i18n-minutes.html r12a
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