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06:32:40 <kaz> Meeting: WoT WG - TD-TF
06:33:14 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Darko_Anicic, Michael_Koster, Michael_McCool, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Takeshi_Yamada, Victor_Charpenay
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06:34:28 <kaz> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#Agenda
06:34:34 <kaz> present+ Taki_Kamiya
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06:35:46 <kaz> present+ Masato_Ohura, Ryuichi_Matsukura, Tomoaki_Mizushima
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06:36:09 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner
06:38:17 <kaz> scribenick: victor
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06:38:59 <DarkoAnicic> present+ DarkoAnicic
06:39:05 <victor> topic: TD breakouts
06:39:30 <kaz> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting,_4-10_November_2017,_Burlingame,_CA,_USA#Plenary_and_Breakouts
06:40:05 <victor> Sebastian: topics were 1. interaction with Alexa, 2. capabilities for semantic modeling
06:40:23 <kaz> s/TD breakouts/Agenda for today/
06:40:43 <kaz> s/Plenary_and_Breakouts/Agenda/
06:40:53 <kaz> topic: TD breakout topics
06:40:55 <kaz> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting,_4-10_November_2017,_Burlingame,_CA,_USA#Plenary_and_Breakouts
06:41:06 <victor> 3. observable properties
06:41:43 <kaz> [[
06:41:43 <kaz> WoT Thing Description
06:41:43 <kaz>     Type System:
06:41:43 <kaz>         JSON Schema ontology (JSON Schema vocabulary + Linked Data integration)
06:41:43 <kaz>         How to handle more specific types such as from the CBOR and XML Schema type space (e.g., unsignedShort, date,...)? -- Binding Templates
06:41:46 <kaz>     Evaluation of the new features used in TD for PlugFest:
06:41:48 <kaz>         JSON Schema as Linked Data model
06:41:50 <kaz>         iot.schema.org or Amazon Alexa vocabulary set usage (no decision yet)
06:41:52 <kaz>         introducing subscription flag in Property for doing Property subscription (for CoAP and MQTT)
06:41:54 <kaz> ]]
06:43:50 <kaz> q+
06:44:44 <victor> does the group agree on these topics? Questions?
06:44:58 <kaz> ack k
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06:45:56 <victor> Kaz: people should think of how to expose the capabilities of their devices before
06:46:20 <kaz> s/before/based on their PlugFest implementations/
06:46:22 <victor> s/people/PlugFest participants/
06:48:30 <victor> in particular, Japanese use EchoNet, McCool OCF. What are the common capabilities?
06:49:05 <kaz> s/EchoNet/Echonet/
06:49:23 <dape> q+ to wonder about JSON schema ontology and its impact on PlugFest
06:50:05 <kaz> q?
06:51:07 <victor> Sebastian: I also first put in the list an item about a terms for protocol bindings. I removed it because the Protocol binding TF wanted to discuss this.
06:51:52 <victor> Michael Koster: right. Nothing we would implement  now, though.
06:52:47 <kaz> s/Michael Koster:/Michael_Koster:/
06:52:53 <victor> Michael McCool: you also mentioned capabilities. Any draft?
06:53:30 <kaz> s/Michael McCool:/Michael_McCool:/
06:53:31 <victor> MK: nothing yet, see later.
06:54:16 <victor> topic: TD for PlugFest
06:54:46 <kaz> -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-wg/2017Oct/att-0022/TD4PlugFest.pdf Sebastian's slides
06:54:54 <victor> 1. Alexa. Developers should know what to do before the event.
06:54:57 <kaz> (updated one to be shared later)
06:55:17 <victor> MMC: I have slides on this
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06:55:39 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/master/plugfest/2017-burlingame/WoT%20-%20McCool%20POC%20(003).pdf McCool's slides
06:56:10 <dape> q-
06:57:12 <victor> an idea is to scan a Thing Directory for markup, and map TDs to Alexa "skill adapters" (e.g. a power controller)
06:57:19 <mjkoster> q?
06:57:32 <victor> is a JSON object
06:58:13 <victor> skill also include light control and streams (e.g. camera image stream)
06:58:18 <DarkoAnicic> q+
06:58:44 <mjkoster> q+
06:59:00 <victor> door lock and thermostat
06:59:04 <kaz> https://developer.amazon.com/docs/smarthome/understand-the-smart-home-skill-api.html
06:59:55 <victor> the reason why I asked whether there is a draft for capabilities is that we should define these skills in RDF
07:00:56 <victor> MK: capabilities are just pieces of TDs.
07:01:35 <victor> I haven't looked at streams yet. But streams are just objects, it should be possible to define actions/events on these objects
07:01:42 <kaz> https://developer.amazon.com/docs/device-apis/alexa-powercontroller.html
07:02:19 <victor> MCC: how to generate the payload to send to Alexa from a TD?
07:02:38 <kaz> https://developer.amazon.com/docs/device-apis/alexa-powerlevelcontroller.html
07:03:13 <mjkoster> ack m
07:03:33 <victor> MK: does Alexa map a message to a (vocal) command?
07:04:02 <victor> that is, does Alexa send messages to IoT devices in response to commands?
07:04:52 <victor> MCC: so it is basically a bridge between a user and the device. Similar to what a TD does
07:05:11 <kaz> q+
07:06:52 <victor> we should use built-in skills (home skills) and not custom skills (e.g. door lock vs. front door lock/back door lock). It's easier.
07:07:29 <sebastian> ack d
07:07:38 <McCool> https://developer.amazon.com/docs/device-apis/alexa-powerlevelcontroller.html
07:07:45 <victor> Darko: I've been working on capabilities (based on the previous PlugFest).
07:07:59 <victor> some are ready (e.g. thermostat)
07:08:37 <victor> the most common. You will be able to review them right after I commit.
07:09:59 <victor> we are reviewing OCF, Haystack, openT2T, SAREF, etc. We can review Alexa as well
07:10:38 <victor> MCC: ok, let's coordinate
07:12:22 <victor> MK: the goal of iot.schema.org is to make two servients using each one of the frameworks above be interchangeable
07:13:28 <kaz> q?
07:13:29 <victor> MCC: one scenario I'm working on is "smart security", with a face recognition service
07:13:44 <victor> (to lock/unlock one's door)
07:13:52 <McCool> s/face/person/
07:13:57 <kaz> https://www.w3.org/TR/semantic-interpretation/
07:15:24 <victor> Kaz: regarding this, it might relate to the W3C recommandation about speech recognition semantics
07:16:46 <kaz> ... binding template might want to have that kind of capability to interact with Amazon Alexa at some point
07:16:56 <kaz> ack k
07:17:33 <kaz> present+ Amelie_Gyrard
07:18:19 <victor> MCC: note on Amazon: security aspects in Alexa are well done, and also in AWS IoT. This was also a reason to look at it.
07:18:54 <victor> S: sync between Darko, McCool. We need a decision soon
07:20:29 <kaz> s/S:/Sebastian:/
07:22:25 <kaz> topic: Pull requests
07:22:39 <kaz> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/54
07:23:22 <victor> topic: Observable properties
07:23:43 <kaz> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/54/commits/9b0e1978c939ea5c98ee5339467a4901cca7c72a
07:24:26 <victor> Victor: made a PR to wot-thing-description
07:24:54 <kaz> [[
07:24:55 <kaz> <td><code>observable</code></td><td>Boolean value that indicates whether a remote servient can subscribe to (&quot;observe&quot;) the Property, to receive change notifications or periodic updates.</td><td><a href="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#boolean"><code>boolean</code></a></td>
07:24:56 <kaz> ]]
07:25:17 <victor> Sebastian: should be moved to the Current Practices doc
07:25:41 <victor> Victor: ok, I'll do this.
07:25:57 <victor> Sebastian: we also had 'stability' as a field.
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07:26:55 <kaz> -> http://w3c.github.io/wot/current-practices/wot-practices-duesseldorf-2017.html Current Practices (Dusseldorf version)
07:27:18 <kaz> -> http://w3c.github.io/wot/current-practices/wot-practices-duesseldorf-2017.html#property 3.2.3.1 Property
07:27:37 <victor> but it was rarely used (if ever)
07:27:37 <kaz> q?
07:27:41 <kaz> q+
07:28:20 <kaz> ack k
07:28:45 <victor> Sebastian: shall we discuss this field as well in a breakout?
07:29:17 <kaz> kaz: note during TPAC we don't have a breakout room, so we should assume all the sessions are plenary (at least at this moment)
07:29:18 <victor> Kaz: note that we don't have any breakout room at the TPAC
07:30:09 <kaz> topic: New vocabulary for Protocol Bindings
07:30:15 <DarkoAnicic> q+
07:30:20 <victor> MK: we also had a discussion about 'observable' in the Protocol Binding call.
07:30:44 <kaz> s/topic: New vocabulary for Protocol Bindings//
07:30:47 <kaz> topic: New vocabulary for Protocol Bindings
07:31:16 <victor> Sebastian: as I said before, isn't this too soon?
07:31:31 <victor> MK: we'll try to experiment with it at the PlugFest
07:31:51 <victor> next Wednesday, we'll have some draft.
07:32:01 <victor> (PB call deadline)
07:32:54 <victor> Darko: w.r.t. observable properties, what would be the difference with events?
07:32:58 <victor> q+
07:34:46 <victor> MK: the discussion last Wednesday was about events with/without state
07:35:25 <victor> an event is something that is not a Property state change
07:35:55 <victor> ack v
07:36:11 <sebastian> ack d
07:36:13 <McCool> q+
07:36:25 <victor> is an hypothesis at this point.
07:37:03 <victor> Kaz: where shall this discussion take place (TD, Protocol bindings)?
07:37:26 <kaz> MK: maybe during the main meeting
07:37:36 <kaz> Kaz: that would make sense, I think
07:37:39 <victor> Sebastian: Protocol bindings. The TD should only reflect the decisions taken there
07:38:47 <victor> anyway, clear guidelines are needed.
07:39:09 <victor> MK: at least, best practices.
07:39:23 <kaz> q?
07:39:32 <kaz> ack m
07:40:09 <victor> MCC: some protocols are more event-oriented and speaking about states might seem confusing
07:40:34 <McCool> ack m
07:40:49 <victor> MK: You said Zigbee? It also is oriented towards state change.
07:42:09 <kaz> topic: Open issues
07:42:10 <victor> topic: open issues and current discussions
07:42:17 <kaz> s/topic: Open issues//
07:42:34 <victor> Sebastian: new issue from Taki
07:42:50 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/56 issue 56
07:42:59 <victor> are (should) the RDF files (be) normative?
07:44:37 <victor> MK: is the TD RDF vocab constraining anything? If not, we maybe shouldn't standardize it?
07:45:02 <victor> Sebastian: no need to decied now. To discuss at the TPAC
07:45:16 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/53 issue 53
07:45:32 <victor> second issue: docs for semantics in TD
07:45:50 <victor> idea of "integration level" of semantic annotations
07:46:27 <victor> third: stability. We discussed that today
07:46:44 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/29 issue 29
07:47:09 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/16 issue 16
07:47:34 <victor> TD serialization, nothing new?
07:47:59 <victor> Kaz: fiy, Dave recontacted Ben about this
07:48:25 <kaz> s/about this/and I'll also follow that up
07:48:32 <victor> S: can you ask him if he's going to the PlugFest
07:48:36 <victor> ?
07:48:45 <kaz> s/S:/Sebastian/
07:48:51 <kaz> Kaz: will do
07:48:55 <dape> q+
07:49:08 <kaz> ack d
07:49:20 <victor> Daniel: is it
07:49:40 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/14 issue 14
07:49:55 <victor> s/is it/is the new proposal for data types going to be implemented for the PlugFest?/
07:50:05 <victor> S: yes
07:50:25 <victor> identical for most types
07:50:38 <kaz> -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-wg/2017Oct/att-0022/TD4PlugFest.pdf Sebasitian's slides (see slide 3: Data Type (Prio 1))
07:50:45 <dape> ack dape
07:51:01 <victor> q+
07:52:12 <kaz> -> https://github.com/mjkoster/wot-protocol-binding/blob/master/bindingtemplates-19092017.pdf Koster's slides for the Binding call
07:52:28 <victor> MK: I've started to use it. The change regarding name/value results in a more compact representation, a sort of emplatet
07:53:08 <victor> Victor: by the way, there is a PR pending
07:53:12 <victor> ack v
07:53:27 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/13 issue 13
07:54:39 <kaz> Sebastian: will close that later
07:54:44 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/12 issue 12
07:55:20 <victor> issue #13 can be closed, its outcome was the proposal for data types using Linked data
07:55:44 <kaz> MK: Issue 12 is related to the issue on serialization
07:55:54 <kaz> Sebastian: maybe we should change the title of this issue
07:56:02 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/9 issue 9
07:56:29 <kaz> [@@@ victor's clarification should go before the link of issue 12]
07:57:16 <victor> Sebastian: issue 9 is from Maria. Not put in practice by PlugFest participants, though
07:57:28 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/3 issue 3
07:58:05 <victor> issue 3 is old. The discussion moved on to TF LD, right?
07:58:41 <kaz> https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/#namespaces
07:58:46 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/2 issue 2
07:58:47 <victor> Darko: I can put this on the agendo of TF LD
07:58:59 <kaz> s|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/2 issue 2||
07:59:01 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/2 issue 2
07:59:18 <victor> Sebastian: last issue about binary encodings. No news on it.
07:59:57 <victor> new issue from Maxime
07:59:59 <kaz> -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-wg/2017Sep/0013.html Maxime's issue on the ML
08:00:50 <victor> context: one Property(, one data type), two serialization/media types
08:01:47 <kaz> s/one/1./
08:01:50 <kaz> s/two/2. /
08:02:27 <victor> the question is whether we should have one data type def per media type or not
08:03:25 <kaz> -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-wg/2017Oct/0005.html Maxime's proposal to have discussion on Oct 20
08:03:32 <victor> Maxime is not here today, we'll postpone the discussion for next week
08:03:53 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/55 PR 55
08:04:14 <victor> There is also a PR from Maria, which actually depends on the discussion initiated by Maxime
08:04:26 <victor> Also ajourned.
08:04:43 <kaz> [adjourned]
08:04:49 <kaz> rrsagent, make log member
08:04:53 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
08:04:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/10/13-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
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14:05:25 <kaz> Meeting: WoT IG - TF-LD
14:05:30 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Danh_Le_Phuoc, Taki_Kamiya
14:05:35 <kaz> present+ Michael_Koster
14:05:40 <kaz> present+ Aparna_Thuluva, Darco_Anicic, Victor_Charpenay
14:05:44 <kaz> present+ Uday_Davuluru
14:05:54 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
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14:05:58 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:05:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/10/13-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:06:30 <kaz> present+ Maxime_Lefrançois
14:10:28 <kaz> zakim, pick a scribe
14:10:28 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Maxime_Lefrançois
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