11:39:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #poe
11:39:45 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/09/25-poe-irc
11:39:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
11:39:47 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #poe
11:39:49 <trackbot> Meeting: Permissions and Obligations Expression Working Group Teleconference
11:39:49 <trackbot> Date: 25 September 2017
11:40:03 <ivan> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20170925
11:40:19 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: agenda 2017-09-25: https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20170925
12:20:58 <renato> renato has joined #poe
12:25:15 <renato> present+
12:25:41 <ivan> present+
12:26:17 <michaelS> michaelS has joined #poe
12:27:17 <lindab> lindab has joined #poe
12:27:19 <michaelS> present+
12:27:34 <lindab> present+
12:31:04 <benws_> benws_ has joined #poe
12:32:42 <ivan> chair: ben
12:34:06 <renato> scribe: renato
12:34:22 <renato> last week minutes: https://www.w3.org/2017/09/18-poe-minutes
12:34:36 <renato> accepted!
12:35:04 <renato> Agenda: testing regime
12:35:19 <michaelS> q+
12:35:24 <renato> https://github.com/w3c/poe/blob/gh-pages/test/test-regime.md
12:35:52 <renato> michael: all the documents are there..but are there guidelines?
12:36:03 <renato> ben: yes...should
12:36:53 <renato> ben: are we assuming that implementors will publish their results on the spreadsheet
12:37:22 <renato> michael: yes, and script will create official web page
12:38:14 <renato> renato: whats needed in the spreadsheet?
12:38:49 <renato> ben: to provide ids to the Evaluator sheet
12:39:50 <renato> michael: needs reference ids
12:40:25 <renato> renato: what about the validation test cases?
12:40:38 <renato> michael: action on victor/simon
12:40:53 <benws_> q?
12:40:57 <benws_> ack m
12:41:31 <renato> action: benws_ to add identifiers to the Evaluation webpage
12:41:31 <trackbot> Error finding 'benws_'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/track/users>.
12:42:23 <renato> action: benws_ Add commentary to the Test Regime page as instructions for implementors
12:42:23 <trackbot> Error finding 'benws_'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/track/users>.
12:44:59 <renato> michael: need JSON-LD examples and guidelines
12:45:14 <benws_> q?
12:45:24 <renato> ivan: need both
12:46:36 <renato> action: victor number all the sections/test cases in the Validation webpage
12:46:37 <trackbot> Created ACTION-47 - Number all the sections/test cases in the validation webpage [on Víctor Rodríguez-Doncel - due 2017-10-02].
12:47:07 <renato> action: victor create JSON-LD version of each turtle test case
12:47:09 <trackbot> Created ACTION-48 - Create json-ld version of each turtle test case [on Víctor Rodríguez-Doncel - due 2017-10-02].
12:48:52 <renato> action: benws Add commentary to the Test Regime page as instructions for implementors
12:48:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-49 - Add commentary to the test regime page as instructions for implementors [on Benedict Whittam Smith - due 2017-10-02].
12:49:26 <renato> action: benws add identifiers to the Evaluation webpage
12:49:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-50 - Add identifiers to the evaluation webpage [on Benedict Whittam Smith - due 2017-10-02].
12:49:39 <renato> michael: what should the validator do?
12:51:01 <renato> ... The test use case will be created by the implementor
12:51:11 <renato> ben: what about interop?
12:52:06 <renato> ... there will be multiple implementations of a validator
12:52:44 <renato> ..working on the same test cases
12:53:27 <renato> ben: there are no "official" validators
12:53:47 <renato> michael: what do we expect from the testing party?
12:54:37 <renato> ben: they build a validator..input all the test cases, and check they get the same result
12:55:02 <renato> ...they match our results
12:55:20 <lindab> +
12:55:32 <benws_> q?
12:55:44 <lindab> q+
12:56:26 <ivan> ack lindab
12:56:27 <renato> lindab: can we provide a document for testing to report back more narrative results?
12:56:31 <ivan> q+
12:56:39 <renato> ben: add a comment column?
12:57:12 <renato> ...(michael to add)
12:57:59 <renato> ivan: if something does not check for a test case: 1) code is buggy or 2) our spec is not clear
12:58:18 <renato> ...the documents need editorial improvement
12:58:37 <renato> ... the CR phase is to test out own document
12:59:12 <renato> ben: implementor may make comments, and we respond...
12:59:35 <benws_> q?
12:59:39 <renato> ivan: we make it clear that they SHOULD submit github issues
12:59:43 <benws_> ack i
12:59:52 <renato> ben: part of the new updated doco
13:01:01 <renato> ben: numbers are updated as per the IM
13:01:29 <renato> michael: page has "active" but we don't define this in the IM?
13:05:06 <renato> ben: put a mapping from the active/non-active terms to the IMN terms (eg allowed/not-allowed)
13:08:22 <renato> michael: duties need to know if an action is exercised
13:09:00 <renato> ...how do we know if we trigger a remedy
13:11:34 <renato> renato: more doco for Prohibition class as related to Active/Not-Active
13:12:47 <renato> ben: rows in the tables are not indepdendent
13:13:23 <renato> michael: why is the consequence fulfilled?
13:14:34 <renato> ben: you need to go back and fulfil the obligation
13:15:28 <victor> victor has joined #poe
13:19:35 <renato> discussion about consequence ...it is a "must also" duty
13:20:03 <victor> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:20:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/25-poe-minutes.html victor
13:20:08 <victor> present+
13:20:47 <renato> "If either of these fails to be fulfilled, then this will result in the consequence Duty also becoming a new requirement, meaning that the original obligation or duty, as well as the consequence Duty must all be fulfilled. "
13:22:17 <renato> renato: we can raise and "editorial" github issue
13:22:26 <renato> s/and/an/
13:23:08 <benws_> q?
13:23:32 <renato> michael: example 25?
13:23:50 <renato> ben (to fix/update)
13:23:53 <victor> EXAMPLE 25 - A Permission P1 has a Constraint C1 and a Duty D1, which has a Constraint C2 and is refined by Constraint R1:
13:25:02 <renato> michael: good to have some headings in unheaded columns
13:26:07 <renato> ben will look into it
13:26:11 <benws_> q?
13:26:19 <renato> ben: AOB?
13:26:51 <renato> CR published on 26th !
13:27:30 <renato> Testing starts asap....ideally everything should be in place...but this week should be good!
13:28:10 <renato> Bye Bye !!!
13:28:12 <victor> bye bye
13:28:30 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:28:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/25-poe-minutes.html ivan
13:29:07 <ivan> trackbot, end telcon
13:29:07 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
13:29:07 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been renato, ivan, michaelS, lindab, victor
13:29:15 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
13:29:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/25-poe-minutes.html trackbot
13:29:16 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
13:29:16 <RRSAgent> I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2017/09/25-poe-actions.rdf :
13:29:16 <RRSAgent> ACTION: benws_ to add identifiers to the Evaluation webpage [1]
13:29:16 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/09/25-poe-irc#T12-41-31
13:29:16 <RRSAgent> ACTION: benws_ Add commentary to the Test Regime page as instructions for implementors [2]
13:29:16 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/09/25-poe-irc#T12-42-23
13:29:16 <RRSAgent> ACTION: victor number all the sections/test cases in the Validation webpage [3]
13:29:16 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/09/25-poe-irc#T12-46-36
13:29:16 <RRSAgent> ACTION: victor create JSON-LD version of each turtle test case [4]
13:29:16 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/09/25-poe-irc#T12-47-07
13:29:16 <RRSAgent> ACTION: benws Add commentary to the Test Regime page as instructions for implementors [5]
13:29:16 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/09/25-poe-irc#T12-48-52
13:29:16 <RRSAgent> ACTION: benws add identifiers to the Evaluation webpage [6]
13:29:16 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/09/25-poe-irc#T12-49-26