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11:58:56 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/09/20-wot-irc
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12:01:50 <zkis> present+ Zoltan_Kis
12:02:19 <kaz> Meeting: WoT IG/WG
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12:02:56 <McCool> waiting until 5m past; any new agenda items, let me know
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12:03:18 <dsr> present+
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12:04:41 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Dave_Raggett, Kazuo_Kajimoto, Michael_Koster, Niklas_Widell, Ryuichi_Matsukura, Takeshi_Yamada, Taki_Kamiya, Tomoaki_Mizushima, Zoltan_Kis
12:05:22 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner, Soumya_Kanti_Datta
12:05:30 <kaz> regrets+ Uday_Davuluru
12:05:36 <dsr> scribenick: dsr
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12:05:53 <dsr> chair: Michael McCool
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12:06:47 <dsr> Michael reports the news that the 3 FPWDs were successfully published as planned.
12:07:01 <kaz> -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-wg/2017Sep/0006.html
12:07:35 <dsr> He has been working on the security workshop plans and wants to have the security document published in good time to support the workshop
12:08:06 <kaz> -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-ig/2017Sep/0001.html Michael McCool's message (Member-only)
12:08:17 <sebastian> sebastian has joined #wot
12:08:23 <kaz> s/message/message on the IEEE S&P Workshop/
12:08:32 <dsr> There is some12 hours left to make changes to the workshop proposal so please send comments
12:08:51 <dsr> Michael: any updates on the plugfest planning?
12:09:02 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting,_4-10_November_2017,_Burlingame,_CA,_USA#PlugFest_.284-5_Nov_2017.29 PlugFest wiki
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12:09:31 <dsr> Matsukura-san emailed updated slides just before today’s call
12:09:36 <McCool> see issue #346
12:09:56 <barryleiba1> present+ Barry_Leiba
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12:10:08 <dsr> It is titled “Issues for TPAC Plugfest”. He presents it using the webex shared screen facility
12:10:10 <kaz> -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-ig/2017Sep/att-0011/update_Issues_for_TPAC_plugfest_170920.pptx Matsukura-san's slides
12:10:11 <DarkoAnicic> present+ DarkoAnicic
12:10:30 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
12:10:34 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:10:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/20-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:10:43 <dsr> The main focus is on communication between servients
12:11:17 <McCool> q+
12:11:51 <kaz> i/Michael reports/topic: Quick updates/
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12:12:26 <kaz> s/some12/some 12/
12:12:54 <kaz> i/any updates on the/topic: PlugFest planning/
12:13:01 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:13:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/20-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:13:04 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/346
12:13:56 <kaz> s/346/346 Issue for "[Plugfest] Planning for next step"
12:13:58 <dsr> Matsukura-san talks us through each slide in turn
12:14:51 <kaz> present+ Kunihiko_Toumura
12:15:07 <kaz> present+ Masato_Ohura
12:15:14 <kaz> present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch
12:15:33 <dsr> A device can act as a servient, or it could involve a gateway to expose a thing for another servient to consume
12:16:54 <wonsuk> present+ Wonsuk_Lee
12:16:57 <dsr> One issue is that the URL can be different on either side of a NAT firewall
12:16:58 <kaz> q+ to ask if Matsukura-san's point is how to handle local device's address from the remote side within TD and how to transfer TD for that purpose
12:17:52 <dsr> We need some joint discussion on discovery, exchange of thing descriptions and their management.
12:17:56 <dsr> q?
12:17:59 <dsr> ack mc
12:18:55 <sebastian> q+
12:19:06 <dsr> McCool: we should support the use of ACE where practical. For events, I would like to support the subscription model, but to allow for other possibilities.  I hope the approach here is descriptive and will allow for other approaches in future
12:19:25 <dsr> q+
12:19:32 <dsr> ack kaz
12:19:32 <Zakim> kaz, you wanted to ask if Matsukura-san's point is how to handle local device's address from the remote side within TD and how to transfer TD for that purpose
12:19:40 <McCool> ack m
12:20:14 <dsr> kaz: the question is how to map addresses across NAT, right?
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12:20:39 <dsr> Matsukura-san: yes
12:20:53 <dsr> kaz: you should make that clearer
12:20:59 <McCool> q?
12:21:01 <kaz> i/yes/Kaz's question here@@/
12:21:11 <dsr> ack sebastian
12:21:38 <dsr> sebastian: you showed one servient as a gateway, what do you mean by a gateway?
12:21:43 <McCool> q?
12:22:31 <dsr> if you want to provide access to devices from outside of the firewall, the gateway can help
12:22:54 <dsr> is the idea that the clients can get access direct to local devices or what is your intention?
12:23:19 <dsr> if the former, a better term might be a bridge
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12:24:23 <dsr> Matsukura-san: the gateway provides a means to create shadows of things
12:24:37 <mjkoster> There is a proxy device in the gateway
12:24:39 <dsr> (aka digital twins)
12:24:43 <kaz> q+
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12:25:21 <kaz> dsr: came across the issue on URL with local/remote networks
12:25:48 <kaz> ... my solution was embedding the address of the gateway into the TD
12:26:01 <kaz> ... thousands of thermostats
12:26:13 <kaz> ... looks very straight-forward
12:26:18 <McCool> q?
12:26:33 <kaz> ... the question is what would be the best solution
12:26:57 <dsr> Dave: what’s the best means for us to share ideas, as I have been working on the same problem for gateways and cloud hubs
12:27:07 <kaz> ack d
12:27:20 <dsr> McCool: is the issue tracker the right place for this?
12:27:25 <dsr> ack ka
12:28:25 <McCool> q+
12:28:26 <dsr> kaz: the gateway can manage multiple devices on the same local area network or in the local vicinity
12:28:50 <dsr> McCool: are the servients going to come from different people?
12:29:02 <kaz> i/McCool:/... Matsukura-san and Nimura-san would like to clarify the need/requirement for that kind of Management Thing as well/
12:30:09 <dsr> McCool: the OCF bridge might fit into this pattern
12:30:20 <kaz> i/the OCF/kaz: right, so Matsukura-san would like you as well to provide one of the servients :)/
12:30:25 <dsr> Topic: WebSockets
12:30:28 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:30:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/20-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:30:30 <McCool> topic: websockets
12:31:18 <dsr> What is the URL for the slides?
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12:32:28 <kaz> -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-ig/2017Sep/att-0013/Event_Implementation_Proposal__HTTP_WebSocket__r3.pptx
12:32:28 <kaz> s/pptx/pptx Yamada-san's slides/
12:33:01 <dsr> Yamada-san: I want to talk about a proposal for eventing
12:33:01 <dsr> we would like to have more discussion on eventing
12:33:43 <dsr> slide 1: several times of protocols for event delivery, e.g. HTTP long poilling, server-sent events, websockets
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12:34:37 <dsr> The table shows some pros and cons for each protocol
12:34:41 <McCool> q+
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12:35:42 <dsr> Slide 2 shows protocol message exchanges using HTTP + WebSocket
12:38:08 <dsr> q+ to ask why not use WebSockets for properties and actions
12:38:08 <dsr> HTTP is used to subscribe/unsubscribe and WebSockets for event delivery
12:38:08 <dsr> Multiple devices can share the same WebSocket connection, so the message includes the device URI
12:38:25 <dsr> The event message should include the timestamp as proposed by Mozilla
12:41:39 <sebastian> q+
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12:41:47 <dsr> Yamada-san presents some detailed examples
12:41:47 <dsr> questions or comments?
12:41:47 <dsr> ack McCool
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12:41:56 <kaz> q+ to mention VW's VIWI submission and Automotive WG's VISS
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12:42:00 <dsr> McCool: there is more than one way to handle events, so the TD should state which applies
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12:42:41 <dsr> The interaction model depends on the underlying protocol. e.g. HTTP vs CoAP vs WebSockets
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12:43:38 <dsr> We should assume that there are multiple ways to support eventing, and the consumer needs to know what the producer is using
12:43:45 <dsr> ack se
12:44:04 <dsr> sebastian: the TD needs to cover the communication metadata for that
12:44:21 <kaz> dsr: comment first
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12:44:26 <kaz> ... in discussion with Ben
12:44:42 <kaz> ... websocket would be a good way to go
12:44:56 <kaz> ... using HTTPS for security and authentication
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12:45:17 <kaz> ... why did you choose websocket just for events
12:45:23 <kaz> s/events/events?/
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12:45:49 <dsr> Dave: why did you choose to use WebSockets just for events and not for properties and actions?  I have done that for my design.
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12:46:13 <kaz> q?
12:46:15 <kaz> ack d
12:46:15 <Zakim> dsr, you wanted to ask why not use WebSockets for properties and actions
12:46:33 <dsr> McCool: we should discuss how to add the communications metadata for eventing
12:46:41 <sebastian_> q+
12:46:52 <kaz> ack s
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12:47:24 <McCool_> q?
12:47:28 <dsr> sebastian: this Friday in the TD call we will discuss metadata for eventing, could Yamada-san join that call?
12:47:34 <dsr> Yamada-san: yes
12:47:51 <kaz> ack k
12:47:51 <Zakim> kaz, you wanted to mention VW's VIWI submission and Automotive WG's VISS
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12:48:09 <dsr> kaz: I wantred to mention VW's VIWI submission and Automotive WG's VISS
12:48:30 <kaz> https://www.w3.org/TR/vehicle-information-service/
12:48:35 <dsr> these are similar approaches using WebSockets for messaging
12:48:41 <kaz> https://www.w3.org/Submission/2016/SUBM-viwi-protocol-20161213/
12:49:18 <dsr> we should take a look at both of these approaches
12:50:37 <dsr> kajimoto-san: Mozilla are also interested in using WebSockets for messaging
12:51:10 <dsr> sebastian: this is not just a TD topic and is also relevant to the protocol binding discussion
12:51:42 <dsr> Topic: Task Force reports
12:51:52 <kaz> i/sebastian:/kaz: as discussed during the Chairs call last week, I can send a reminder to Benjamin about possible joint work/
12:52:29 <dsr> sebastian: last week we had a TD call with invited experts to talk to us about the SSN ontology
12:52:31 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2017/09/15-wot-td-minutes.html TD minutes (Member-only)
12:53:26 <dsr> we discussed TD types, we need to be careful with naming in the linked data form
12:53:57 <dsr> this Friday we will focus on eventing and the plugfest
12:54:05 <McCool_> q?
12:54:20 <zkis> https://www.w3.org/2017/09/18-wot-minutes.html
12:54:29 <dsr> Zoltan talks about the scripting task force call.
12:54:46 <kaz> s/html/html (Member-only)/
12:55:06 <dsr> We had the FPWD and discussed a small reorganisation of the repo and added Johannes as an editor
12:56:06 <dsr> The node-wot project is considering adding the W3C license
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12:56:56 <dsr> once that happens, other people will be able to contribute to the project
12:57:07 <kaz> q+ to mention there is discussion within the Chairs group and the W3C Team about the license question
12:57:47 <kaz> present+ Keiichi_Tokuyama, Toru_Kawaguchi
12:57:52 <McCool_> q?
12:58:14 <dsr> ack ka
12:58:14 <Zakim> kaz, you wanted to mention there is discussion within the Chairs group and the W3C Team about the license question
12:58:28 <dsr> kaz: discussion within the Chairs group and the W3C Team about the license question re node-wot
12:58:37 <dsr> this is to be clarified
12:59:22 <dsr> Daniel: I understood from Wendy that the W3C license is based on the MIT license, so changing should be easy
12:59:44 <dsr> kaz: not 100% true, we need to look at the details and get back with some recommendations
13:00:00 <dsr> Daniel: I am waiting on this before restructuring the node-wot repo
13:00:07 <McCool_> q?
13:00:47 <dsr> McCool: no binding call this week, Michael Koster has some slides to present.
13:01:12 <kaz> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-wg/2017Sep/0024.html Koster's message
13:01:36 <dsr> Can we defer this to next week’s call?
13:02:04 <dsr> Michael_Koster: I could instead present at this Friday’s TD call
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13:02:40 <dsr> McCool: some pending changes on the security draft and aiming for FPWD on November 1st
13:02:58 <dsr> rrsagent, set logs public
13:03:18 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:03:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/20-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:03:19 <McCool_> q?
13:03:27 <dsr> … end of meeting …
13:03:31 <dsr> present+
13:03:39 <dsr> rrsagent, make minutes v2
13:03:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/20-wot-minutes.html dsr
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13:04:56 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:04:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/20-wot-minutes.html kaz
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