14:54:14 RRSAgent has joined #auto 14:54:14 logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/09/20-auto-irc 14:54:16 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:54:16 Zakim has joined #auto 14:54:18 Meeting: Automotive Working Group Teleconference 14:54:18 Date: 20 September 2017 14:58:20 Meeting: RSI 14:58:21 scribenick: ted 14:58:25 Present+ Ted 15:08:40 PatrickB has joined #auto 15:09:09 Hi, I am still stuck in a meeting... Need a few more minutes 15:09:23 ok, Rudi isn't here yet 15:09:30 he said he would be late 15:26:04 PatrickB has joined #auto 15:26:23 Are you still there? 15:26:26 we are 15:26:30 rudi and i 15:26:34 I dial in now 15:30:25 https://github.com/GENIVI/vehicle_signal_specification/ 15:31:11 https://github.com/w3c/automotive-bg/issues/59 15:31:42 Patrick: example is lat, long etc of location in a single structure that you can apply regex or other filters to 15:32:03 … we are thinking of adding a complex type on RSI level that can be treated as a primatite 15:32:20 … you would not be able to subscribe to latitude along but the complex type 15:32:51 … it will not be treated the same, sort of like structs in C++ 15:34:19 Ted: are you planning to have a full structure? @@comp to vss 15:35:00 Patrick: to allow a larger subscribe of json tree would be complex to implement and break RSI model 15:35:27 … there are logical components eg door window and lock state that could be bundled together 15:36:26 … there could be 3-4 levels from JSON structure that could be treated similar to a primative, receive all the information together as a JSON object 15:36:34 … you'll have other limitations as a result 15:37:18 Rudi: geolocation it makes sense to bundle. for the door model you might want to get the status of all doors at once before allowing the car to drive away 15:38:02 … you do not want to make a fixed assumption on how to bundle, an app might want all the data on a single door or lock status of all doors 15:38:15 … differing grouping options can be powerful 15:38:34 Patrick: you could do a GET request on the individual doors of all the available doors 15:38:43 … we wouldn't do this in RSI this way 15:39:06 Rudi: we have VSS in YAML and translation into JSON objects 15:39:24 … in the end you have all three geo values together that can be subscribed as an object 15:39:43 Patrick: as an object I agree 15:40:41 … our experience with rolling this out to more services is more complexity you allow for objects the more difficult it is to implement 15:40:52 … point is to make it easily digestable 15:41:39 … once we have this in RSI spec then it would allow structured data and find a way to bring VSS tree and RSI together 15:42:09 … we would want to find logical root nodes. geo is a good example where a JSON struct should be handled by the server as a primative 15:42:23 … that is when we should be able to bring things together 15:45:29 Ted@@ 15:45:52 Rudi: Visteon as an example is relying on VSS for their framework 15:46:00 … of course JLR is building around VSS 15:46:21 … Genivi in general 15:46:33 … I understand the grouping model as a logical structure 15:46:55 … we purposely avoided complex data structures. at the end a leaf node is a primative 15:47:07 … the object is more or less created by the tree (or subset) 15:47:20 … it can be extended and translated into anything 15:48:08 … we there is some notion that heavily used signals can be aliased so it is easier to bundled but that hasn't been used/explained much 15:48:16 … example being geo 15:48:27 … you would be able to get them by going through the tree too 15:49:22 … I understand the complexity of the tree but it is well organized and common computing concept 15:50:56 Ted: are there others who are using VSS as that will help Patrick persuade VW@@ 15:51:10 Rudi: I am not sure I can disclose that 15:51:16 Ted: perhaps ask them 15:55:36 @@next_steps 15:57:18 s/@@comp to vss/if so I would be interested in comparing it to VSS/ 15:59:49 s/Ted@@/Ted: it sounds like you will be able to restructure and will not necessarily be bound by the current depth limitation which is great. as this will be internal negotiations in addition to potentially in VSS itself it would help if Rudi can elaborate one external existing dependencies on VSS. that will help Patrick's argument within VW/ 16:00:51 s/@@next_steps/Ted: sounds like next steps are to start seeing how flexible VW might be in changing their structure, perhaps provide current structure thoughts as examples for consideration 16:01:46 … Rudi will see if he can get other parties to state their interest and usage of VSS 16:02:44 Rudi: it may be possible to use the aliasing mechanism to give an alternate tree view as well 16:04:20 Ted: that would mean VW might need to change at all provided we don't throw developers too much. if they ask for something at one location and get it back somewhere else with a different structure it may or may not be cumbersome 16:04:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/20-auto-minutes.html ted 16:04:31 leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Ted 16:04:31 Zakim has left #auto 16:04:32 I see no action items